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Yeah, I know all about engines getting loaded up, like a boat motor after trolling for long periods. For some reason I never thought about that being a problem with a car/truck. Probably because I never do leave a vehicle idling for long periods. Just wondering if there was something about big-rig diesels that made truckers want to leave them idling, and if the same would be fine for pickup diesels.
The PTO sounds neat though. Just that little bit higher RPM and load keeps the engine happy. Anyone have an idea how the cost of generators set to run off PTO compare to a typical independent Honda or other type? Who's the best manufacturer?
Actually I've never seen one, so i can't say for sure...just an application I've heard thru the grapevine. The most common I've seen is the hydraulic pump, becuase it is small and powerful. with a hydraulic pump, you can run hoses to any application around the truck and have hydraulic power. I've seen lifting cranes and aircompressor that run off the hydraulic lines. I've heard there is a generator, but I'm not sure if the generator was on the PTO, or if it was in the bed of the truck with a hydraulic motor driving it.
Someone (I can't remember who) was asking how the rear seat folds..
The Bottom (The part you sit on) folds forward then the back folds down..
PTO... GM asked Muncie and Chelsea to design complete PTO packages for the HDs.. GM did the right thing on this application without a doubt.. They also have a ONE step operation to turn on the PTO.. no levers to pull and handles to mess with, just a simple Factory mounted knob on the dash that adjusts engine Rpm from a set point to set point....
I didn't know you went after the feathered types. That's my thing. You have a good bird dog for your trip?
I have 4 more weeks until I drop off radar with my German Shorthair and English Setter into the high desert after chukar, quail, and pheasant. I don't know if my wife will hear the "I want my new truck!" more or less from October 7 through January 31 because of chukar season. On the one hand, I will have something to put a smile on my face and take my mind off my truck order. On the other hand, I will be thinking how neat it would be to take off for the field in my new truck.
eaborg, You from Nevada? Doesn't Nevada open a week earlier? I know Idaho opens before Oregon. I might get down south of Denio, Nevada during/after the Oregon opener for one day. This is going to be an epic season! Perfect nesting conditions.
All this hoopla about the durmax leaving the competition in the dust, is just that hoopla. According to those numbers above the duramax fuel milage isn't that great at 20.3 mpg, 9.3 towing. Also it does not blow the compettion in speed either. I have a 2000 cummins/auto/3.54/ gears,/265 tires/qc/4x4, does 0-60 in 9.9-10.0 seconds. With a manual and the extra power rating the cummins should pull about 9.5 seconds or even quicker. Trucktrend I think it was showed the 2000 4x4 qc dually with the stick doing 0-60 in 10.5 seconds. So the duramax isn't all that what Gm claims it to be.
I'm sorry, but a half to a full second from 0-60 is very much something. The Duramax does have more torque than Powerstroke or Cummins, and the Allison compounds the difference between the Sierra/Silverado from the competition. I don't think anyone has said the powerstroke or cummins weren't good. Most of us would probably admit that those engines are the best engines available until the Duramax hits the market. So if Duramax lives up to its GMs figures, and surpasses Cummins/Powerstroke engines, how can you say anything but that the Duramax is awesome.
I will admit that those mileage figures are a bit lower than I was expecting, but that was ONE test by one reviewer on NEW trucks. Certainly not 20% better than the 6.5L TD, as reported. We'll see what happens with more tests, and more miles on the engines. Still comparable to the Cummins/Powerstroke MPG while having more output, and beats the snot out of any gas engine.
I really don't get it reactions by SOME Cummins/Powerstroke people. After I get my Duramax, if the Powerstroke or Cummins advances and has better power/economy figures than the Duramax, I will be the first to say how great it is. Even if Dodge found a new automatic (either the Allison or the "Brut"?), and they can unleash the full power of the current Cummins, I will be raving about how great that rig is. It doesn't make the Duramax any less of an engine.
I forgot to include the Dodge was a 6 Speed Manual..
Sorry..
I also will add, the same combination as above with a 10,000 pond trailer in tow, Which would have a GCW of 17,000 TT tested it at 0-60 27.3 sec.. 40-70 pulling same load was 19.3 seconds..
It appears you may have misinterpreted your info. I read the same article and the numbers don't lie. Where did you get the numbers for the Dodge with the cummins? I'm sure curious minds want to know.
The truck that I was reffering to is a ram dually, 2wd, reg cab. And the times was 0-60 11.5sec. But it was an automatic, so with the manual, those times should be a .5-1 second quicker, especially when there is a 85lbs torque difference between the two. Source trucktrend.com, the test was between a ford 350, single rear wheel vs a dodge dually. The ford did 0-60 in 10.2 seconds.
find that Video....wasn't it you who posted it?....the ford spun the tires the whole way....but I believe the cummins literally came to a stop and made the most pathetic sound i ever heard...
...while I have respect for the cummins..(it's the only thing good about dodge)...it's farr better than the old 6.5 Gm had....and the Ford still get respect from me..(as my Father in law has one and I have been impressed from day one)....but the Duramax makes GM something to talk about...
...BTW....I still can't get enough of that sound the Dodge makes as it stalls out!
Ok, I just watched the video there, and saw the ram and ford get out pulled by the GM. BUT! After watching that video over and over taking a closer look each time, it's gotta be the most cheapest test I've ever seen. Let me get this straight- The GM has 300hp and 520lbs torque. While the RAM and Ford have considerbly less, at 235,245hp, and 460, 500lbs torque. Despite the power difference the GM NEVER SPUN it's back tires once during either pull. How's that possible while the dodge and ford are both sitting there smokuing the tires. One the GM was in four wheel drive, or two the driver of the gm put enough resistence to the other truck, until the other truck started losing traction, and then guned it, which by then any truck could of pulled away with. Because once the tires break loose, theres really no resistence. But the Dodge did out pull the GM off the line until it staring to spin, and even then the GM on the counter didn't break loose at all, that's gotta make you wonder? The Ford broke loose right away, which made the GM trucks job much easier. So, the conclusion is the truck with the higher power rating couln't spin it's rear wheels once, but the dodge and ford did without a problem,Hmmmm, a smell a cheap victory FOr the bowtie boy's. Now what would have been interseting to see would be that, both trucks were in four wheel drive, That would eliminate, the traction problem, make it much more fair, and see which truck has the better drivetrain to handle all that power, and I say the cummins, would definetly put the duramaxxx to shame. My main point is the ram was out puliing the GM, even though it wasn't for long it did while it had traction.
Obyone, mgdvhman, the only ones here in denial are you guys. So why don't you tell me way the GM with it's most in class power couldn't spin it's wheels , while both the dodge and ford are sitting threre spinning away. Even while puting all the power to the wheels, the GM never once even slipped a bit. I still say the GM was in four wheeldrive. So denial I think not. Put all three trucks in fourwheel drive, and then we'll have a tug a war!
dodgeram you quoted a reg cab 11.5 sec vs. a crew cab 9.5 sec 0-60...so what's wrong with that picture? Now if Chevy used a reg cab, what do you suppose the difference in 0-60 times would be? I'm assuming the difference would be greater than 2 seconds...which is an eternity for 0-60 times. So what was your point to your post #120? The Dodge wasn't even a 4x4 like you stated much less a crew cab and still couldn't post a time beating the CC Chevy....
I don't think a reg. cab dodge dually, with an automatic doing 0-60, 11.5 sec is slow, but Im saying this setup in a 3/4 ton would bring the times down to 10.0 seconds. My point was that a dually with an automatic, 215hp, 420LBS, is still in the ballpark of a chev duallly with the duramax.
P>S you still haven't expalined why the GM in that tug of war never lost traction once, but it's compettitors did?
Cut me and I bleed Dodge - you guys know all that. I am looking at buying a Sierra now because Dodge don't make a crew cab yet. Dodge is going to be coming out with its new heavy duty trucks in early 2003 as a 2004 and I personally hope that they can whip the [non-permissible content removed] of anything else out there at the time. Until then GM is my best bet.
The Cummins is a great diesel engine, but the new Duramax appears to be downright better. Period. It hasn't yet proven its durability, but hey that takes time. GM is introducing a completely new Diesel engine and of course it is better than anything out there - there is not much point in bringing it out otherwise.
Dodge will put a new diesel in the 2003 HD Ram and I guarantee you now that it will have better hp, torque and fuel economy numbers than anything else out there - it may be an MB, it may be a Detroit Diesel or it may be a Cummins.
Until then the Duramax is the best performer out there - and I might just buy it over the 8.1 V8. This is a good thing, it is called progress and ultimately we all win.
Read the article in Trailer Life magazine from 2 months back on Duramax vs. Powerstroke vs. Cummins. 3 comparably equipped trucks, all pulling the exact same 10,000 trailer from a dead start up a 1 mile long hill with 6% grade. Don't have the magazine sitting in front of me, but figures were approximately as follows (I'll look them up tonight):
Cummins - 2 minutes 5 seconds at 48 mph top speed Powerstroke - 1 minute, 53 seconds at 52 mph top speed Duramax/Allison - 1 minute, 25 seconds at 60 mph top speed.
Note the Chevy was also ballasted with an additional 500# of sand bags in the bed, so that the GCWR of all 3 rigs would be EQUAL.
The article goes on to say they expected the Duramax with the 6 speed manual would be even FASTER!
I think its a no brainer as to who now has the ultimate towing monster!
Just got my October issue of Trailer Life and thought you folks would be interested as I am in the write-up on the GM tow vehicles. Come to this site and find you've a zillion post on it already. Since I am open to a Chevy tow vehicle for 2002 its a good topic for me. Figure I'll need to get my order in soon the way Chevy delivers. Question? Which issue of Trailer life from a couple of months ago compares the three diesels? I've looked at July - September. Give me a page number too, I'm a little slow at finding those articles. I was dissapointed in the 8.1 mileage both solo and towing (less than the old 8.0 Dodge) and the duramax isn't to good towing mileage. But if we have to worry about fuel mileage we needn't be looking at those engines anyhow. But what concerned me more is the 8.1 torque and horse power curves. Seems like the engine needs to rev awfully high to get any power. I know I don't like to run an engine over 3 grand for any length of time up a long hill, but the 8.1 only developes 250 hp at 3K. And its torque curve seems kind of high. Doesn't get above 400 footpounds until about 1400 rpm with the peak at 3200 rpm. The five speed auto may compesate for this. I liked the fact the truck is only 2 inches taller than some of the HD pickups such as the Ford SD. Although tall looks cool, at six feet I can hardly reach in over the side. Hey, Tim, Hows that 3/4 doing? How many miles now? I've passed 10,000 already so I might be with you on two years instead of the 3 I was planning. And by 2002 don't you think upgrades will be made to the engines to give them more power like they did with the 5.3 and 6.0? Rich
Glad to hear from you...last time we talked alot you wanted a 4 door 2500....for an Arizona trip?...but it didn't come out in time....
what did you buy?
the 2500 has been great for me....22K miles in 13 months and not a problem....
I'll be getting a 2002 HD LT .....just don't know if it'll be 6.0 or 8.1/Allison?....I really don't need the Allison.....we will see....they have a Burb with an 8.1...I may drive it soon?....
Then there is Crew cab VS Ext.cab....I have to see which has more floor space...
I think I was wrong in stating the 3 diesel comparison was in Trailer Life. I looked at all my back issues last night and couldn't find it. I'm thinking it was in some other truck magazine like 4 Wheeler or some other. I know I still have the mag and I'll find it tonight. It really was a good article that, at least to me, was the best head-to-head comparison I've seen.
On the new Vortect engines, they are designed to run at higher rpms than the older style motors, so don't worry about running over 3000 rpm. If you look back at some of your old Trailer Life mags, you'll see tests in there of both the 5.3 and 6.0 liter engines running well over 3500 rpm up long uphill grades.
I haven't received my current Trailer Life yet - looking forward to reading the article on the 8.1 and Duramax.
Comments
Yeah, I know all about engines getting loaded up, like a boat motor after trolling for long periods. For some reason I never thought about that being a problem with a car/truck. Probably because I never do leave a vehicle idling for long periods. Just wondering if there was something about big-rig diesels that made truckers want to leave them idling, and if the same would be fine for pickup diesels.
The PTO sounds neat though. Just that little bit higher RPM and load keeps the engine happy. Anyone have an idea how the cost of generators set to run off PTO compare to a typical independent Honda or other type? Who's the best manufacturer?
Ford will still offer a sub 6.0 engine...aka the 5.4.
Gm Only offered the 5.3 in a 2500 in 2WD....
- Tim
God help us all
- Tim
The Bottom (The part you sit on) folds forward then the back folds down..
PTO... GM asked Muncie and Chelsea to design complete PTO packages for the HDs.. GM did the right thing on this application without a doubt.. They also have a ONE step operation to turn on the PTO.. no levers to pull and handles to mess with, just a simple Factory mounted knob on the dash that adjusts engine Rpm from a set point to set point....
Steve
Have a Good Weekend.......I'm going hunting...
Good luck
- Tim
Good Luck & have a good one.....
I have 4 more weeks until I drop off radar with my German Shorthair and English Setter into the high desert after chukar, quail, and pheasant. I don't know if my wife will hear the "I want my new truck!" more or less from October 7 through January 31 because of chukar season. On the one hand, I will have something to put a smile on my face and take my mind off my truck order. On the other hand, I will be thinking how neat it would be to take off for the field in my new truck.
Be safe out there!
Oregon Upland Birds:
Dove- Sept 1-31
Grouse (& mountain quail??)- Sept. 1 - Dec. 31
Chukar, Huns, & Quail- Oct. 7 - Jan. 31
Pheasant- Oct. 14 - Dec. 10??
eaborg,
You from Nevada? Doesn't Nevada open a week earlier? I know Idaho opens before Oregon. I might get down south of Denio, Nevada during/after the Oregon opener for one day. This is going to be an epic season! Perfect nesting conditions.
I will admit that those mileage figures are a bit lower than I was expecting, but that was ONE test by one reviewer on NEW trucks. Certainly not 20% better than the 6.5L TD, as reported. We'll see what happens with more tests, and more miles on the engines. Still comparable to the Cummins/Powerstroke MPG while having more output, and beats the snot out of any gas engine.
I really don't get it reactions by SOME Cummins/Powerstroke people. After I get my Duramax, if the Powerstroke or Cummins advances and has better power/economy figures than the Duramax, I will be the first to say how great it is. Even if Dodge found a new automatic (either the Allison or the "Brut"?), and they can unleash the full power of the current Cummins, I will be raving about how great that rig is. It doesn't make the Duramax any less of an engine.
Sorry..
I also will add, the same combination as above with a 10,000 pond trailer in tow, Which would have a GCW of 17,000 TT tested it at 0-60 27.3 sec.. 40-70 pulling same load was 19.3 seconds..
They did a short test on a 2001 6 Speed Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins ISB 3.54 gear..
0-60 was 11.5 seconds..
1/4 mile was 18.6 sec@75 Mph..
Now back to the 2500HD and 3500s!!!..
- Tim
Dean
Find it!
- Tim
You can either download and save or play it from it's location...
http://uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/psd_lost.mov
have fun!!
...BTW....I still can't get enough of that sound the Dodge makes as it stalls out!
LOL
Thanks again Oby
- Tim
Dean
LOL
- Tim
P>S you still haven't expalined why the GM in that tug of war never lost traction once, but it's compettitors did?
The Cummins is a great diesel engine, but the new Duramax appears to be downright better. Period. It hasn't yet proven its durability, but hey that takes time. GM is introducing a completely new Diesel engine and of course it is better than anything out there - there is not much point in bringing it out otherwise.
Dodge will put a new diesel in the 2003 HD Ram and I guarantee you now that it will have better hp, torque and fuel economy numbers than anything else out there - it may be an MB, it may be a Detroit Diesel or it may be a Cummins.
Until then the Duramax is the best performer out there - and I might just buy it over the 8.1 V8. This is a good thing, it is called progress and ultimately we all win.
in the video the GM even has less weight with a reg,cab...
whatever you wanna see....so be it...
I really don't care as I will never have need for a diesel....but like it knowing GM is at least in the race again...
are the Cummins and PS obsolete?....no....they just have more to worry about now...
(boob boob oob boo boo booo oobbb ooooo)
...that's the sound the Dodge makes as it stalls out!
...I can't get enough of that Video
- Tim
Cummins - 2 minutes 5 seconds at 48 mph top speed
Powerstroke - 1 minute, 53 seconds at 52 mph top speed
Duramax/Allison - 1 minute, 25 seconds at 60 mph top speed.
Note the Chevy was also ballasted with an additional 500# of sand bags in the bed, so that the GCWR of all 3 rigs would be EQUAL.
The article goes on to say they expected the Duramax with the 6 speed manual would be even FASTER!
I think its a no brainer as to who now has the ultimate towing monster!
quicktime is a must.....maybe windows media player?
- Tim
what did you buy?
the 2500 has been great for me....22K miles in 13 months and not a problem....
I'll be getting a 2002 HD LT .....just don't know if it'll be 6.0 or 8.1/Allison?....I really don't need the Allison.....we will see....they have a Burb with an 8.1...I may drive it soon?....
Then there is Crew cab VS Ext.cab....I have to see which has more floor space...
- Tim
Dean
- Tim
Ryan
On the new Vortect engines, they are designed to run at higher rpms than the older style motors, so don't worry about running over 3000 rpm. If you look back at some of your old Trailer Life mags, you'll see tests in there of both the 5.3 and 6.0 liter engines running well over 3500 rpm up long uphill grades.
I haven't received my current Trailer Life yet - looking forward to reading the article on the 8.1 and Duramax.