Looking at a new poll on flying, I would say more people will be driving to their vacation than before the body scans and touchy feely TSA procedures. You can give your opinion on this new mandate that will put more of US on the highways driving, myself included. How many cars equal the pollution of one airliner traveling from LA to NYC?
Accurate observation. Flying has now become a true nightmare and I personally and thousands like me absolutely refuse to be manhandled, insulted, groped, spoken down to and generally mistreated by a band of arrogant, overpaid, undertrained, self-absorbed and egotistical perverts in the name of false "security." I will avoid planes at all costs unless it might be a matter of life and death or I had to cross an ocean and even then I would do all in my power to avoid U.S. air space.
As far as man-made/automobile-caused global warming is concerned, the entire issue is one giant scam and hoax perpetrated by self-serving irrational ecozealots such as Al Gore and David Suzuki whose interests truly lie less with the earth than the massive increases in their bank accounts brought about by speaking engagements, book tours and signings, erroneous scaremongering movies and megawealthy foundations.
As if the case of "Climategate" was not bad enough where some of the data liars and manipulators were caught and admitted changing the numbers to get the results demanded of them by their bosses so as to keep the government grant money flowing, along comes Ol' Al Gore and plunks down millions on a beachfront CA mansion which was supposed to be underwater in 5 years! Now if Ol' Al really believed that, would he be buying a house which would soon be submerged? Answer that one for yourself but there really is only one answer and it ain't "yes!" Couple this fact with his admission that he twisted the facts and outright lied in "An Inconvenient Truth" which is now being shown to school children all over N.A. as though it were the gospel truth when he knew all the time it was not more than a pack of self-serving lies and his profligate use of energy in his Tennessee mansion which amounts to TWENTY times the amount of electricity used by the average prudent homeowner and you have a consistent pattern of deceit, avarice, intellectual dishonesty, crass self-interest and callous disregard for the truth and the welfare of the people in general. Not a very complimentary portrayal of one of the "giants" of the global warming religion.
Folks desperately need to wake up to this self-serving NWO crap before their livelihoods are totally destroyed a la Cap and Tax, Carbon Taxes, lost automotive jobs of every stripe and enter a brave new world of poverty induced by climate czars and slave drivers while they the victims freeze in the dark.
If you don't like Big Sis' actions, next time you want to fly somewhere, just go to Tijuana and hub down to Mexico City on Aeromexico, and then you can go anywhere in the world.
Meanwhile electric vehicles may have a higher acceptance than some of the "rangers" have predicted.
That is a good option. I have missionary friends that fly out of TJ a lot to Central and South America. I cannot imagine the airlines liking the new PC invasive screening. I think it will kill the profits posted. We went through the one in San Diego going to Indiana. If my wife had known ahead of time what she was subjecting herself to she would have refused. I just read today that people with thyroid problems should refuse the scan method. She has had her thyroid problems. I hope it does not make them worse. I don't see us flying again. Just take the old SUV and bite the bullet on the 15 MPG. Still less than flying with luggage charges of $25 and $35 per bag. Being retired I really don't have to worry about time constraints.
PS Not so sure how safe it is in Mexico right now either. Maybe just staying at home is the best option. That ought to help the economy improve.
Good post priggly, you covered a lot of territory there and I could not agree more. Welcome to the forum and I am looking forward to more of your insightful posts !!
Well said and thought out! And one has to be blind not to see the underlying issue here: CONTROL in all aspects of our daily lives. (Beginning with the forced indoctrination of our children by making them watch that Gore fraud "film"). All in the name of "national security"...yeah right. Oh yeah and while the all knowing government is at it, what about the push to retrofit homes with "energy efficient" green windows and those silly expensive light bulbs which are proven to wear out much earlier than advertised; (KEEP YOUR RECEIPTS is all I can say). Also, here in Kalifornia, SCE is retrofitting millions of electric meters with "smart" meters. It's sounding more and more like it's time to get off the grid.
Priggly, you have captured the admiration of the collection of GW deniers/skeptics/doubters/challengers (choose your favorite term or insert your own) on this forum, and congrats on that. It's always nice to make new online friends, isn't it?
I'd like to be your "forum buddy" also, as I do respect all the viewpoints presented here.
But I sit in the "Devil's Advocate" position here on this forum, trying to prevent it from becoming a "haters of all that is Green, come post here" forum, and I have some comments and questions for you.
First of all, let me say this: I am not an AlGore fan. At all. He has done a lot of stupid things. But I am less mad about him being a hypocrite than I am about his "abuse of power" as a self-appointed GW Guru.
He had a position and forum to be a real benefit to the research we still need on determining Man's role in climate changes, whatever that role might be.
But instead, he puts out a movie with lies, lives in a carbon-producing giant mansion, and refuses to walk the walk which he talks. Bad form. Very bad form.
But having said that -- here are some counterpoints to the supposedly obvious conclusions that AlGore opponents have assumed are infallibly correct.
1. He's not 20 years old any more. He knows that he only has a couple, maybe three, more decades to live. I doubt that he believes that within THAT short of a time frame, his beach mansion will be overwhelmed by rising sea levels. And he knows I'm sure that he would have time to sell it before that happened, if he needed to. So I don't agree that buying the oceanfront property means ANYTHING in regard to his core GW beliefs. It does not automagically mean that he is not a believer of his preachings. It just doesn't.
2. As far as his own Tennessee mansion and the carbon footprint. That alone does not, again, mean that he is not a believer of his preachings. Maybe he's like some deniers, who believe that "one person's commitment" is not really that important in the big picture of global climate. If AlGore REALLY thought that his house was sickening the air of his neighbors, or making his region a more dangerous place for clean air to flourish, don't you think he'd make the changes to reduce his footprint? Of course he would.
He is preaching "world-wide efforts" to curb pollution. Not just local efforts. He knows that one million or 50 million people reducing the footprint is the only thing that makes a drop in the bucket - not just one. Most people (like myself) who make a choice to live a carbon-reduced lifestyle know that they are doing it mostly for their own gratification. It takes a lot more than just my home with 20 solar panels on it and my $16.41 monthly utility bill to make a global-sized difference.
What I would tell AlGore if I were to sit down with him is this: Spend $100K to retro-fit your mansion with green technology and reduce your usage footprint. That gives you a little credibility in a time when you have little or none.
Maybe he is just into GW to make a buck. But that's just one man's "million dollar idea" gone wrong. He hasn't hurt me or my kids one bit.
But his mistakes do not mean that the arctic sea ice is still not melting. SOMETHING is warming the planet. More research is needed to find out if that is bad or good, and if man needs to do something about his role in the warming, if there is one. We. Just. Don't. Know. Better to err on the side of caution, no?
On ClimateGate:
This was of course a God-send to the denier movement. But only because it was taken out of context, though. Not because there was really anything wrong done. As of today, there have been 5 Independent panel reviews of the e-mails, and none of them found serious wrongdoing in the science at all because of the e-mails. Google it.
So welcome to the forums. But using terms like "slave drivers" and "victims freezing in the dark" is really a little on the radical side, IMHO. I don't think anyone yet is a slave because of the green movement, and I don't think anyone has frozen to death in the dark because of AlGore or his movie.
P.S. OK fellas, let the daggers fly. Those who know me know I can take it. And I know you got some, so let's see whatcha got.....:) :shades:
I got a feeling the beach mansion was for Tipper as part of the divorce settlement. Plus of course the half of his $100 million in ill got gains. As you have mentioned his movie filled with lies, forced onto students in many parts of America, may have been his biggest crime against humanity.
Let's look at another case of misguided GW propaganda:
We went to see the Imax movie Coral Reef Adventure yesterday. It was well made from every standard of Imax movie making. Sadly they had to bring in their political views on GW. They showed coral reefs that are dying. The claim is it was partly due to an increase of 2 degrees in ocean temperature. In fairness they also point out that logging on that South Seas Island caused silty run-off that had an adverse effect on the coral. My point is, they went to neighboring islands that had vibrant healthy coral reefs. Are they wanting US to believe the ocean temperature kills coral reefs on one island and not another? Not to mention the latest technology shows the ocean temps have NOT risen as was thought before. Probably information not available when this movie was made.
I do recommend seeing it, as it was a beautiful experience. Just overlook the political propaganda, possibly inserted at the wishes of producers, with an eye to making money on the whole AGW scam.
Yes the dead ones are not pretty. My snorkeling cove in Hawaii is a case for heat causing the coral to die. Yet there are fish and green sea turtles love to hang out there. Fresh hot water comes up out of the ocean bottom and keeps the cove at about 85-90 degrees. Wonderful place to swim and the turtles and fish are a big plus. But the coral does not look healthy.
Then you have the Gulf Dead Zone. A direct result of Eco nut mandates for more ethanol. That is man caused for sure. All in the name of GW and cutting CO2.
gagrice says, "Then you have the Gulf Dead Zone. A direct result of Eco nut mandates for more ethanol. That is man caused for sure. All in the name of GW and cutting CO2. "
Falls under the "Law of Unintended Consequences" category. Millions of entries in that logbook.
The proponents of the theory of manmade global warming - and it's only a theory at this point - are circling the wagons to stay on the government-grant gravy train.
Wait - I thought only people who questioned this theory were motivated by money and greed?
I asked the checker at Albertson's why they no longer gave a nickel off for bringing our own cloth bags. She quite candidly told us they were a pain in the butt to deal with. So much easier to just bag the groceries in plastic. The only other super market that still encourages cloth bags is Sprouts.
Oh, gosh, Gary, when I saw this story I read your mind and KNEW you'd jump on it.
This is just another silly, unjustified reason for GW foes to try and pile on "green" initiatives.
There is more lead in crystal glassware than in these bags.
There is less concern the lead would easily rub off on food when the bags are new, but there is a concern that as bags wear down, lead could accumulate in landfills, creating a potential environmental hazard.
OK, let's get serious here and do some analysis.
I use a set of two reusable Ikea bags for my groceries. It was not made in China. But I will use these two bags for many years - I have already used them for about two years. In that time, how many plastic grocery bags have I saved?
Well, before I started using the Ikea bags, I would get 10-15 bags per week from WalMart or Fry's Grocery or Albertsons or wherever I shopped. So in two years, that's 1040 to 1560 bags. Let's average that to 1300 bags per year. If I use those 2 Ikea bags for 5 years, that's saving 6500 plastic bags.
So what's worse? Putting 6500 plastic bags in a landfill, or putting in 2 Ikea shopping bags that might have a tinge of lead in them?
I think you have missed the whole point here. The Super market in NY that has banned the use of reusable bags was looking for a reason. The cloth bags are killing them at the time clock. I doubt any of the bags I use have any lead in them. Could also be a political statement against buying stuff from China. I would guess they used lead paint for the logo. I will still use mine, as I don't chew on the bags. The report says it is the potential for lead in the landfills when the bags wear out. So look for our congress to outlaw them or require people to buy bags made from hemp with no logo. :shades:
Do you somehow mean to say that they think it takes their employees longer to bag the stuff in reusable bags? Because that's just a silly thing for them to think.
Of course it doesn't take longer.
Putting something in a bag is putting something in a bag.
Putting something in a bag is putting something in a bag.
That is where you are wrong. Most supermarkets have the plastic bags just past the register. The checker puts the item directly into the plastic bag. When full they put it up on the counter or in the case of WalMart it is on a turnstile. When cloth bags get washed and limp it is not easy to hold open with one hand while putting the food into them. Stores that have baggers are less impacted. With the high cost of labor in places like CA and NY it becomes a cost issue. Most grocery chains are fighting for their lives to stay alive, competing against WM. Every second counts in those places.
The real interesting point to the article is Senator Schumer a liberal eco type was all for the ban. Similar to the Kennedy's blocking wind generators.
Well, I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of checkout speed being based on bag type. I've certainly never seen an example of that in Phoenix. Maybe it is an issue in other cities.
But I will say that stores that are on the edge of collapsing because of a few extra seconds per shopper are just prolonging their demise anyway.
Better to get them out of the business and let stores with better financial situations rule the roost.
..says the debate is over. The scientific consensus is man is the cause of global warming. That the big powerful business lobby is behind the, "man is not the cause of global warming" movement. Gore says the proof is unquestionable that man is behind g.w. This was on a program on the History Channel the other day. Many top scientists backed Gore up. Thought I would bring it to larsb and gagrice's attention so they could move on with their lives. Al Gore said the time for debate is past, that we need to start dealing with the facts of manmade global warming. Sorry gagrice, but according to Al Gore... your side lost. Party at lasrb's house.
It is my understanding that those preaching GW assert that MMGW is happening because of the increased release of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere by the activities of man.
The one big problem I have with that is that about 95% of the earth's greenhouse gasses is made up of water vapor...clouds.
How will Gore address this Faux pas? (Nov. 20) -- World leaders attending the NATO summit in Lisbon, Portugal, zipped around in zero-emission electric vehicles. Journalists covering the event hopped aboard electric buses to get from venue to venue.
And President Barack Obama's eight-ton, diesel-fueled armored limousine dubbed "the Beast" drew even more attention than usual.
Lisbon newspapers dedicated pages to coverage of the vehicle, with charts featuring every detail that the Secret Service is willing to divulge -- like the special foam in the gas tank to extinguish any fire from a direct hit, and the supply of presidential blood.
Per usual White House security arrangements, the Beast was flown out to Lisbon before Obama's arrival. Escorted by Secret Service vehicles and 35 Portuguese police motorcycles, it then brought Obama from the airport tarmac to his first meetings of the weekend.
Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Socrates and the president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, meanwhile, had arrived earlier in quiet, zero-emission electric cars.
When amused Portuguese reporters asked about the mixed message, Socrates diplomatically told them: "I'd like to underline the priority both our countries assign to renewable energy and electric vehicles."
While Obama’s motorcade is accompanied by the 35 Portuguese police motorcycles, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev – who arrives for a three-hour visit Saturday to participate in a NATO-Russia Council meeting – will get no such treatment.
On the bright side for Mr. Medvedev, he – unlike Obama – will be able to claim that his modest transport is more in line with the NATO meeting’s green theme.
This film, based on Mr. Lomborg’s book of the same name, should go some way toward image rehabilitation, even if Ms. Timoner is more fearful of boring than confusing us. (Visions of “An Inconvenient Truth” might have been dancing in her head.) Planted firmly in the middle ground between end-is-nigh panic and drill-baby-drill denial, Mr. Lomborg believes the hysteria surrounding global warming has stifled common sense and encouraged countries to budget enormous sums of money to achieve negligible reductions in temperature.
“The current approach is broken,” he says, and to prove it he founded the Copenhagen Consensus Center, filled it with economists and unleashed them on our most pressing global challenges. Systematically applying cost-benefit analyses to a variety of green technologies and persistent worldwide problems — disease, poverty, education — Mr. Lomborg concluded that improving our planet demanded a more creative, less fearful allocation of resources.
I'm not a scientist. :shades: Sure looks like the climate is warming up to me though. And it looks like the reasons are largely human caused. Why do you think I moved north from Boise?
And who doesn't have a vested interest? It's a capitalistic world and even Mother Teresa was out there raising money for her orphanages. The trick is to weigh what people are saying and tune out the dross.
In the case of science, someone tests a hypothesis and others try to independently recreate the result. That usually makes it easier to sift out the dross.
What's happening now is that money devoted to R&D is getting hammered and that's going to cost the US dearly in economic and energy terms in the years to come, all because the science has become so politicized.
To even continue to debate GW causation from GHG is moronic,The cause has been completely explained by my group,but it does not suit the purpose of those profiting in a very special way from those beleivers that fell hook,line and sinker for their ruse. What a sad time for this planet and the supposed "Science" specialists who could not debate a single one of us and win. Agendas will always rule when you allow it,and you continue to allow it,and allow it on all major issues on the planet. Earth Science facts are quite different from your fav science theorist from your fav sports university.
Al should stick to his rub downs so that the rest of us can have a happy ending.
I think Al Baby got one too many rub downs. Now Tipper is giving him the Shakedown. To my way of thinking she should get the Beach Mansion and all the Cash. He can have the Carbon Credits stashed in the Caymans.
Will this end his career and bankrupt his scam?
Cap-and-Trade Exchange Calls It Quits
The only national carbon cap-and-trade exchange in the United States is shutting down because of Congressional inaction on limiting emissions, company officials say.
The Chicago Climate Exchange is a voluntary but legally binding greenhouse gas emissions allowance trading system modeled after a federal cap-and-trade program from the 1980s that successfully curbed emissions tied to acid rain.
Members of the exchange, which include DuPont, Motorola, I.B.M. and other major companies, agreed to binding emissions limits, with those who exceeded their limits required to buy credits from those who emitted less.
Activity on the exchange surged last year as Congressional Democrats crafted and then passed comprehensive cap-and-trade legislation, as the exchange was regarded as well positioned to serve as a central vehicle for the emissions trading envisioned by the law. But when a similar bill failed to gain traction in the Senate and was abandoned this year, interest dwindled and the price of its carbon credits crashed.
With climate legislation in the United States dead in the water for the foreseeable future, participants in the exchange have lost interest, said Jeffrey C. Sprecher, chief executive of Intercontinental Exchange, an operator of futures exchanges for agricultural, credit, currency and energy contracts that purchased the Chicago Climate Exchange in July 2010 for $600 million.
“The bulk of the users have said to us that they really don’t want to continue to trade voluntarily in the absence of any credit for their work by the current administration,” Mr. Sprecher said in an earnings call this month.
Intercontinental Exchange will lay off the bulk of the Chicago Climate Exchange’s employees over the next few months, he said, and will replace the cap-and-trade system with a less ambitious registry program for carbon offsets next year.
Gosh, that is too bad. They would be drinking champagne and dancing in their exchange slips if all those Dems hadn't been kicked to the curb earlier this month. What a shame !!!
What's happening now is that money devoted to R&D is getting hammered and that's going to cost the US dearly in economic and energy terms in the years to come, all because the science has become so politicized.
If the research money was going for REAL research into alternative energy, I would say good. I don't think much was going where we were being told. A big share of the grants handed out from the Feds are paybacks in the form of earmarks. I think this House will be serious about eliminating all that graft. Serious research through the DOD and NASA should continue. Money handed to colleges and Universities leave too much room for frivolous studies. Like the sex life of female college students grant.
The truth is our kids are getting hammered right now with uncontrolled deficit waste of money. The Feds cannot point to any significant growth as a result of the $800 billion in stimulus money. We can grow as a country or we can die slowly as a country. The current trend is some kind of status quo or turning back the clock. That just will not work. We are at the point now where more than half the population is living off the other half. Our stagnant economy will destroy US long before the seas will rise and do it.
Morons? Completely explained? Last I checked even gravity was being debated, including Einstein's general theory on relativity (the Chandra X-ray findings notwithstanding). If nothing else, the continuing probing of the data may warn of some unintended consequences that could be avoided by the "cure" or "denying the cause".
Excellent news!! This country needs less paper-pushing bureaucrats, lawyers, traders and and other sorts. Give those people some tools and let them do something green like building a windmill farm. More people actually Making something rather than pushing paper, is what creates wealth.
So let me understand why that op-ed piece from Sherwood attacked the Rep. for killing progress on GW legislation. We've had a Dem. President and both houses of Congress the last 2 years.
And as far as profiting goes, you sort of dimissed that supporters of GW theory are profitting, saying that even Mother Theresa profitted. That's fairly akin then to the Mafia's policy of just "wanting to wet our beak".
So sure maybe it is just human nature for everyone to want to personally thrive - look out for your own, whether it's your religion, political party, country club, industry, country or family. But as many smarter people have said directly or indirectly, we had better start changing fast. A growing world, acting like apes fighting for resources, armed with nuclear weapons is going to end badly. Off to watch Mad Maxx and Tina in Thunderdome.
I finally read the oped piece and have a couple comments. Some things struck me as interesting.
The record flooding, droughts and extreme weather in this country and others are consistent with patterns that scientists predicted for years. They are an ominous harbinger.
I disagree that this has been predicted by a consensus of scientists for years. The consensus was global warming will occur and cause more serious hurricanes etc. The politicians have taken scientific data and molded it to fit their agenda. And people are resisting that kind of chicanery.
The National Academy reports concluded that "scientific evidence that the Earth is warming is now overwhelming." Party affiliation does not change that fact.
That conclusion does not fit reality. If you mention the Facts, such as the coldest winter on record for most of South America and Australia, they do the GW to CC shuffle. IN the wake of Katrina the AGW cult blamed Bush for not signing Kyoto. And made the broad claim that we were in for worse hurricanes than Katrina. Well that prediction has not come true. When you have thousands of scientists that are mostly on the public dole making irrational predictions, I call BS. If one or two of the predictions come true they would like US to believe all their rhetoric was true.
I fully believe that the climate is and will continue to change. It has for 100s of 1000s of years. Man's contribution is not as much as the fear mongers in the AGW cult would have US believe. So as has been pointed out. Follow the money.... By the way, CA is experiencing a la Nina year. Fairly predictable by meteorological standards. Plus we just came out of the coldest summer on record.
Sounds like some of those weather extremes predicted by the GW crowd.
That is exactly my point. They have predicted every possible weather condition under the sun. And blamed it all on man. When it is quite obvious from ice core samples we had much higher CO2 in the past. And it always followed the warming trends, not preceded them. I would never say that man has not had an impact on the environment. What I am opposed to is sweeping legislation to set US back and destroy our economy. There is no credible evidence that the green movement will generate enough jobs are real products to sustain our lifestyle. We are destroying our children's future on theoretical hypothesis.
I have said it before. These NASA NWS scientists cannot accurately predict the weather a week in advance. Why should I believe they can give any kind of accurate prediction of 100 years from now. They have been caught in so many lies at the leading edge of the science, I don't know why anyone would believe the scientific community. Especially the ones paid by the politicians and industry. The independents are not the ones going along with the consensus.
no credible evidence that the green movement will generate enough jobs
All the news reports I skim indicate that the Chinese and every other country is going full bent to develop new energy sources and green technology. I'm not too excited about burning kerosene in my hut while the guy the next ocean over had a bunch of compact led lights running for nothing on an iPad size panel lying on top of his smart car plugin pole.
the Chinese and every other country is going full bent to develop new energy sources and green technology.
The Chinese are studying new energy sources ( nuclear and coal) because they are tired of buying oil. Exactly where we should be spending our money instead of wasting it on scammers studying the climate. Hopefully China will do some meaningful energy research which we can adopt.
New and better energy sources are not the same as worthless climate research. In fact, since China is concentrating on coal and nuclear, you could say it is just the opposite.
They're studying (and investing in) wind and solar big time, and who knows what else. (India Times)
ABC reports that China spends a staggering $12 million every hour on green energy. They don't have much choice; there's not enough coal and oil to go around.
That is true, but it still has nothing to do with GW. As you said, it is out of necessity. How much are they spending on climate change research ? Probably nothing. They don't waste their (our) money.
Comments
http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-yo- - ur-decision-to-fly/
As far as man-made/automobile-caused global warming is concerned, the entire issue is one giant scam and hoax perpetrated by self-serving irrational ecozealots such as Al Gore and David Suzuki whose interests truly lie less with the earth than the massive increases in their bank accounts brought about by speaking engagements, book tours and signings, erroneous scaremongering movies and megawealthy foundations.
As if the case of "Climategate" was not bad enough where some of the data liars and manipulators were caught and admitted changing the numbers to get the results demanded of them by their bosses so as to keep the government grant money flowing, along comes Ol' Al Gore and plunks down millions on a beachfront CA mansion which was supposed to be underwater in 5 years! Now if Ol' Al really believed that, would he be buying a house which would soon be submerged? Answer that one for yourself but there really is only one answer and it ain't "yes!" Couple this fact with his admission that he twisted the facts and outright lied in "An Inconvenient Truth" which is now being shown to school children all over N.A. as though it were the gospel truth when he knew all the time it was not more than a pack of self-serving lies and his profligate use of energy in his Tennessee mansion which amounts to TWENTY times the amount of electricity used by the average prudent homeowner and you have a consistent pattern of deceit, avarice, intellectual dishonesty, crass self-interest and callous disregard for the truth and the welfare of the people in general. Not a very complimentary portrayal of one of the "giants" of the global warming religion.
Folks desperately need to wake up to this self-serving NWO crap before their livelihoods are totally destroyed a la Cap and Tax, Carbon Taxes, lost automotive jobs of every stripe and enter a brave new world of poverty induced by climate czars and slave drivers while they the victims freeze in the dark.
More fees, but plenty of fliers.
If you don't like Big Sis' actions, next time you want to fly somewhere, just go to Tijuana and hub down to Mexico City on Aeromexico, and then you can go anywhere in the world.
Meanwhile electric vehicles may have a higher acceptance than some of the "rangers" have predicted.
EV Acceptance Won't Come Easy, But Growing Numbers Are Interested - Report
(Green Car Advisor)
PS
Not so sure how safe it is in Mexico right now either. Maybe just staying at home is the best option. That ought to help the economy improve.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
All in the name of "national security"...yeah right. Oh yeah and while the all knowing government is at it, what about the push to retrofit homes with "energy efficient" green windows and those silly expensive light bulbs which are proven to wear out much earlier than advertised; (KEEP YOUR RECEIPTS is all I can say). Also, here in Kalifornia, SCE is retrofitting millions of electric meters with "smart" meters. It's sounding more and more like it's time to get off the grid.
I'd like to be your "forum buddy" also, as I do respect all the viewpoints presented here.
But I sit in the "Devil's Advocate" position here on this forum, trying to prevent it from becoming a "haters of all that is Green, come post here" forum, and I have some comments and questions for you.
First of all, let me say this: I am not an AlGore fan. At all. He has done a lot of stupid things. But I am less mad about him being a hypocrite than I am about his "abuse of power" as a self-appointed GW Guru.
He had a position and forum to be a real benefit to the research we still need on determining Man's role in climate changes, whatever that role might be.
But instead, he puts out a movie with lies, lives in a carbon-producing giant mansion, and refuses to walk the walk which he talks. Bad form. Very bad form.
But having said that -- here are some counterpoints to the supposedly obvious conclusions that AlGore opponents have assumed are infallibly correct.
1. He's not 20 years old any more. He knows that he only has a couple, maybe three, more decades to live. I doubt that he believes that within THAT short of a time frame, his beach mansion will be overwhelmed by rising sea levels. And he knows I'm sure that he would have time to sell it before that happened, if he needed to. So I don't agree that buying the oceanfront property means ANYTHING in regard to his core GW beliefs. It does not automagically mean that he is not a believer of his preachings. It just doesn't.
2. As far as his own Tennessee mansion and the carbon footprint. That alone does not, again, mean that he is not a believer of his preachings. Maybe he's like some deniers, who believe that "one person's commitment" is not really that important in the big picture of global climate. If AlGore REALLY thought that his house was sickening the air of his neighbors, or making his region a more dangerous place for clean air to flourish, don't you think he'd make the changes to reduce his footprint? Of course he would.
He is preaching "world-wide efforts" to curb pollution. Not just local efforts. He knows that one million or 50 million people reducing the footprint is the only thing that makes a drop in the bucket - not just one. Most people (like myself) who make a choice to live a carbon-reduced lifestyle know that they are doing it mostly for their own gratification. It takes a lot more than just my home with 20 solar panels on it and my $16.41 monthly utility bill to make a global-sized difference.
What I would tell AlGore if I were to sit down with him is this: Spend $100K to retro-fit your mansion with green technology and reduce your usage footprint. That gives you a little credibility in a time when you have little or none.
Maybe he is just into GW to make a buck. But that's just one man's "million dollar idea" gone wrong. He hasn't hurt me or my kids one bit.
But his mistakes do not mean that the arctic sea ice is still not melting. SOMETHING is warming the planet. More research is needed to find out if that is bad or good, and if man needs to do something about his role in the warming, if there is one. We. Just. Don't. Know. Better to err on the side of caution, no?
On ClimateGate:
This was of course a God-send to the denier movement. But only because it was taken out of context, though. Not because there was really anything wrong done. As of today, there have been 5 Independent panel reviews of the e-mails, and none of them found serious wrongdoing in the science at all because of the e-mails. Google it.
So welcome to the forums. But using terms like "slave drivers" and "victims freezing in the dark" is really a little on the radical side, IMHO. I don't think anyone yet is a slave because of the green movement, and I don't think anyone has frozen to death in the dark because of AlGore or his movie.
P.S. OK fellas, let the daggers fly. Those who know me know I can take it. And I know you got some, so let's see whatcha got.....:) :shades:
I got a feeling the beach mansion was for Tipper as part of the divorce settlement. Plus of course the half of his $100 million in ill got gains. As you have mentioned his movie filled with lies, forced onto students in many parts of America, may have been his biggest crime against humanity.
Let's look at another case of misguided GW propaganda:
We went to see the Imax movie Coral Reef Adventure yesterday. It was well made from every standard of Imax movie making. Sadly they had to bring in their political views on GW. They showed coral reefs that are dying. The claim is it was partly due to an increase of 2 degrees in ocean temperature. In fairness they also point out that logging on that South Seas Island caused silty run-off that had an adverse effect on the coral. My point is, they went to neighboring islands that had vibrant healthy coral reefs. Are they wanting US to believe the ocean temperature kills coral reefs on one island and not another? Not to mention the latest technology shows the ocean temps have NOT risen as was thought before. Probably information not available when this movie was made.
I do recommend seeing it, as it was a beautiful experience. Just overlook the political propaganda, possibly inserted at the wishes of producers, with an eye to making money on the whole AGW scam.
Maybe they are just hoping to get the notice of a few more advocates, people who might not yet know that there is a coral reef problem in a few areas.
I can say without bias of any sort that the dead ones SURE ARE UGLY.
Then you have the Gulf Dead Zone. A direct result of Eco nut mandates for more ethanol. That is man caused for sure. All in the name of GW and cutting CO2.
Falls under the "Law of Unintended Consequences" category. Millions of entries in that logbook.
Are you saying the GDZ was "created" as a result of ethanol mandates, and affected for no other reason?
Wait - I thought only people who questioned this theory were motivated by money and greed?
Supermarket Chain Pulls Reusable Bags Over Lead
November 16, 2010 9:30 AM
I asked the checker at Albertson's why they no longer gave a nickel off for bringing our own cloth bags. She quite candidly told us they were a pain in the butt to deal with. So much easier to just bag the groceries in plastic. The only other super market that still encourages cloth bags is Sprouts.
This is just another silly, unjustified reason for GW foes to try and pile on "green" initiatives.
There is more lead in crystal glassware than in these bags.
There is less concern the lead would easily rub off on food when the bags are new, but there is a concern that as bags wear down, lead could accumulate in landfills, creating a potential environmental hazard.
OK, let's get serious here and do some analysis.
I use a set of two reusable Ikea bags for my groceries. It was not made in China. But I will use these two bags for many years - I have already used them for about two years. In that time, how many plastic grocery bags have I saved?
Well, before I started using the Ikea bags, I would get 10-15 bags per week from WalMart or Fry's Grocery or Albertsons or wherever I shopped. So in two years, that's 1040 to 1560 bags. Let's average that to 1300 bags per year. If I use those 2 Ikea bags for 5 years, that's saving 6500 plastic bags.
So what's worse? Putting 6500 plastic bags in a landfill, or putting in 2 Ikea shopping bags that might have a tinge of lead in them?
The answer is so obvious it's not even funny.
Some people just refuse to get it.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Do you somehow mean to say that they think it takes their employees longer to bag the stuff in reusable bags? Because that's just a silly thing for them to think.
Of course it doesn't take longer.
Putting something in a bag is putting something in a bag.
That is where you are wrong. Most supermarkets have the plastic bags just past the register. The checker puts the item directly into the plastic bag. When full they put it up on the counter or in the case of WalMart it is on a turnstile. When cloth bags get washed and limp it is not easy to hold open with one hand while putting the food into them. Stores that have baggers are less impacted. With the high cost of labor in places like CA and NY it becomes a cost issue. Most grocery chains are fighting for their lives to stay alive, competing against WM. Every second counts in those places.
The real interesting point to the article is Senator Schumer a liberal eco type was all for the ban. Similar to the Kennedy's blocking wind generators.
But I will say that stores that are on the edge of collapsing because of a few extra seconds per shopper are just prolonging their demise anyway.
Better to get them out of the business and let stores with better financial situations rule the roost.
Gary, some of those bags are delicious. I don't see how you can resist !!
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Washington Post
The one big problem I have with that is that about 95% of the earth's greenhouse gasses is made up of water vapor...clouds.
Does man produce water vapor?
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(Nov. 20) -- World leaders attending the NATO summit in Lisbon, Portugal, zipped around in zero-emission electric vehicles. Journalists covering the event hopped aboard electric buses to get from venue to venue.
And President Barack Obama's eight-ton, diesel-fueled armored limousine dubbed "the Beast" drew even more attention than usual.
Lisbon newspapers dedicated pages to coverage of the vehicle, with charts featuring every detail that the Secret Service is willing to divulge -- like the special foam in the gas tank to extinguish any fire from a direct hit, and the supply of presidential blood.
Per usual White House security arrangements, the Beast was flown out to Lisbon before Obama's arrival. Escorted by Secret Service vehicles and 35 Portuguese police motorcycles, it then brought Obama from the airport tarmac to his first meetings of the weekend.
Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Socrates and the president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, meanwhile, had arrived earlier in quiet, zero-emission electric cars.
When amused Portuguese reporters asked about the mixed message, Socrates diplomatically told them: "I'd like to underline the priority both our countries assign to renewable energy and electric vehicles."
While Obama’s motorcade is accompanied by the 35 Portuguese police motorcycles, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev – who arrives for a three-hour visit Saturday to participate in a NATO-Russia Council meeting – will get no such treatment.
On the bright side for Mr. Medvedev, he – unlike Obama – will be able to claim that his modest transport is more in line with the NATO meeting’s green theme.
This film, based on Mr. Lomborg’s book of the same name, should go some way toward image rehabilitation, even if Ms. Timoner is more fearful of boring than confusing us. (Visions of “An Inconvenient Truth” might have been dancing in her head.) Planted firmly in the middle ground between end-is-nigh panic and drill-baby-drill denial, Mr. Lomborg believes the hysteria surrounding global warming has stifled common sense and encouraged countries to budget enormous sums of money to achieve negligible reductions in temperature.
“The current approach is broken,” he says, and to prove it he founded the Copenhagen Consensus Center, filled it with economists and unleashed them on our most pressing global challenges. Systematically applying cost-benefit analyses to a variety of green technologies and persistent worldwide problems — disease, poverty, education — Mr. Lomborg concluded that improving our planet demanded a more creative, less fearful allocation of resources.
http://movies.nytimes.com/2010/11/12/movies/12cool.html
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And who doesn't have a vested interest? It's a capitalistic world and even Mother Teresa was out there raising money for her orphanages. The trick is to weigh what people are saying and tune out the dross.
In the case of science, someone tests a hypothesis and others try to independently recreate the result. That usually makes it easier to sift out the dross.
What's happening now is that money devoted to R&D is getting hammered and that's going to cost the US dearly in economic and energy terms in the years to come, all because the science has become so politicized.
What a sad time for this planet and the supposed "Science" specialists who could not debate a single one of us and win.
Agendas will always rule when you allow it,and you continue to allow it,and allow it on all major issues on the planet.
Earth Science facts are quite different from your fav science theorist from your fav sports university.
If "Chuckie" Schumer thought it would give him some camera time he would be all for roasting and eating babies. A bigger phony has never lived. :mad:
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Al should stick to his rub downs so that the rest of us can have a happy ending.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1. A moving target is harder to hit?
2. A rolling stone.....
3. Stalking someone?
4. Witness relocation program?
That is all the rational reasons I can come up with on short notice. Gotta be one of those !!
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I think Al Baby got one too many rub downs. Now Tipper is giving him the Shakedown. To my way of thinking she should get the Beach Mansion and all the Cash. He can have the Carbon Credits stashed in the Caymans.
Will this end his career and bankrupt his scam?
Cap-and-Trade Exchange Calls It Quits
The only national carbon cap-and-trade exchange in the United States is shutting down because of Congressional inaction on limiting emissions, company officials say.
The Chicago Climate Exchange is a voluntary but legally binding greenhouse gas emissions allowance trading system modeled after a federal cap-and-trade program from the 1980s that successfully curbed emissions tied to acid rain.
Members of the exchange, which include DuPont, Motorola, I.B.M. and other major companies, agreed to binding emissions limits, with those who exceeded their limits required to buy credits from those who emitted less.
Activity on the exchange surged last year as Congressional Democrats crafted and then passed comprehensive cap-and-trade legislation, as the exchange was regarded as well positioned to serve as a central vehicle for the emissions trading envisioned by the law. But when a similar bill failed to gain traction in the Senate and was abandoned this year, interest dwindled and the price of its carbon credits crashed.
With climate legislation in the United States dead in the water for the foreseeable future, participants in the exchange have lost interest, said Jeffrey C. Sprecher, chief executive of Intercontinental Exchange, an operator of futures exchanges for agricultural, credit, currency and energy contracts that purchased the Chicago Climate Exchange in July 2010 for $600 million.
“The bulk of the users have said to us that they really don’t want to continue to trade voluntarily in the absence of any credit for their work by the current administration,” Mr. Sprecher said in an earnings call this month.
Intercontinental Exchange will lay off the bulk of the Chicago Climate Exchange’s employees over the next few months, he said, and will replace the cap-and-trade system with a less ambitious registry program for carbon offsets next year.
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/climate-futures-exchange-calls-it-quit- s/?src=twrhp
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If the research money was going for REAL research into alternative energy, I would say good. I don't think much was going where we were being told. A big share of the grants handed out from the Feds are paybacks in the form of earmarks. I think this House will be serious about eliminating all that graft. Serious research through the DOD and NASA should continue. Money handed to colleges and Universities leave too much room for frivolous studies. Like the sex life of female college students grant.
The truth is our kids are getting hammered right now with uncontrolled deficit waste of money. The Feds cannot point to any significant growth as a result of the $800 billion in stimulus money. We can grow as a country or we can die slowly as a country. The current trend is some kind of status quo or turning back the clock. That just will not work. We are at the point now where more than half the population is living off the other half. Our stagnant economy will destroy US long before the seas will rise and do it.
Houdini, dang. You got three out of four.
And as far as profiting goes, you sort of dimissed that supporters of GW theory are profitting, saying that even Mother Theresa profitted. That's fairly akin then to the Mafia's policy of just "wanting to wet our beak".
So sure maybe it is just human nature for everyone to want to personally thrive - look out for your own, whether it's your religion, political party, country club, industry, country or family. But as many smarter people have said directly or indirectly, we had better start changing fast. A growing world, acting like apes fighting for resources, armed with nuclear weapons is going to end badly. Off to watch Mad Maxx and Tina in Thunderdome.
I dunno - could it be he listened to the scientists who testified instead of the lobbyists?
(I didn't see the Godfather series, so I had to use up a carbon credit or two Binging).
The record flooding, droughts and extreme weather in this country and others are consistent with patterns that scientists predicted for years. They are an ominous harbinger.
I disagree that this has been predicted by a consensus of scientists for years. The consensus was global warming will occur and cause more serious hurricanes etc. The politicians have taken scientific data and molded it to fit their agenda. And people are resisting that kind of chicanery.
The National Academy reports concluded that "scientific evidence that the Earth is warming is now overwhelming." Party affiliation does not change that fact.
That conclusion does not fit reality. If you mention the Facts, such as the coldest winter on record for most of South America and Australia, they do the GW to CC shuffle. IN the wake of Katrina the AGW cult blamed Bush for not signing Kyoto. And made the broad claim that we were in for worse hurricanes than Katrina. Well that prediction has not come true. When you have thousands of scientists that are mostly on the public dole making irrational predictions, I call BS. If one or two of the predictions come true they would like US to believe all their rhetoric was true.
I fully believe that the climate is and will continue to change. It has for 100s of 1000s of years. Man's contribution is not as much as the fear mongers in the AGW cult would have US believe. So as has been pointed out. Follow the money.... By the way, CA is experiencing a la Nina year. Fairly predictable by meteorological standards. Plus we just came out of the coldest summer on record.
coldest summer on record
Sounds like some of those weather extremes predicted by the GW crowd.
That is exactly my point. They have predicted every possible weather condition under the sun. And blamed it all on man. When it is quite obvious from ice core samples we had much higher CO2 in the past. And it always followed the warming trends, not preceded them. I would never say that man has not had an impact on the environment. What I am opposed to is sweeping legislation to set US back and destroy our economy. There is no credible evidence that the green movement will generate enough jobs are real products to sustain our lifestyle. We are destroying our children's future on theoretical hypothesis.
I have said it before. These NASA NWS scientists cannot accurately predict the weather a week in advance. Why should I believe they can give any kind of accurate prediction of 100 years from now. They have been caught in so many lies at the leading edge of the science, I don't know why anyone would believe the scientific community. Especially the ones paid by the politicians and industry. The independents are not the ones going along with the consensus.
All the news reports I skim indicate that the Chinese and every other country is going full bent to develop new energy sources and green technology. I'm not too excited about burning kerosene in my hut while the guy the next ocean over had a bunch of compact led lights running for nothing on an iPad size panel lying on top of his smart car plugin pole.
The Chinese are studying new energy sources ( nuclear and coal) because they are tired of buying oil. Exactly where we should be spending our money instead of wasting it on scammers studying the climate. Hopefully China will do some meaningful energy research which we can adopt.
New and better energy sources are not the same as worthless climate research. In fact, since China is concentrating on coal and nuclear, you could say it is just the opposite.
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ABC reports that China spends a staggering $12 million every hour on green energy. They don't have much choice; there's not enough coal and oil to go around.
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