Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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Comments

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    edited December 2010
    I agree with you about Gore; he's not malicious. I would more describe his bad traits as greed, and arrogance in his infallibility of a subject on which the experts do not even have expert knowledge.
    Everything from the Internet to politics to climate that he has dabbled in, he has proclaimed himself an expert. What does that tell you? He certainly isn't a Leonardo DaVinci! Read up on his latest admission - on why he supported corn ethanol a decade ago.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2010
    I moved to TN a few short years after his dad got beat out of his Senate seat for being too liberal on civil rights and for opposing the Vietnam War. I don't think I got the chance to vote for Al Senior, but I sure would have. His record left a soft spot for me for Al Jr. But Al Jr. is pretty tone deaf compared to his father in a lot of ways.

    Al Sr. helped run an oil company and a coal company. It would have been fun to hear father and son debate!

    Meanwhile, the Cancun summit is heating up the GW talk.

    Last decade warmest on record, review finds (MSNBC)
  • cheezhedcheezhed Member Posts: 44
    edited December 2010
    I agree with you about Gore; he's not malicious. I would more describe his bad traits as greed, and arrogance in his infallibility of a subject on which the experts do not even have expert knowledge.


    You can also add "hypocrite" for a person who utilizes more resources by far than the average person or family. Then he "redeems" himself by buying carbon credits through an endeavor he owns.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Al Sr was also a tobacco farmer. Al jr still owned and operated the farm when he ran for President. Al Sr was considered a racist and voted against the 1964 Civil Rights bill. He also proposed using nuclear weapons in the Korean War to divide the North from the South.

    A few months later Congressman Albert Gore, Sr. (Father of former VP and 2000 Democratic candidate Al Gore, Jr., and subsequently a strong opponent of the Vietnam war) complained that "Korea has become a meat grinder of American manhood" and suggested "something cataclysmic" to end the war: a radiation belt dividing the Korean peninsula permanently into two.

    Although Ridgway said nothing about a cobalt bomb, in May 1951, after replacing MacArthur as US commander in Korea, he renewed MacArthur's request of 24 December, this time for 38 atomic bombs. (13) The request was not approved.


    If not for Truman we might have killed millions more and Al Gore was one of the proponents of using nuclear weapons in Korea.

    http://hnn.us/articles/9245.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2010
    I guess I liked him because he was a contrarian and didn't mealy-mouth around like most made for TV candidates nowadays. Back in the 50's there was a lot of dumb bomb talk, like the huge harbor proposed for Nome, courtesy of civilian use of a nuke.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    CANCUN, Mexico, Dec. 2 (UPI) -- Japan has stirred the climate negotiations taking place in Cancun, Mexico, at the onset with its blunt declaration that it would not agree to extend the Kyoto Protocol beyond 2012.

    Japan's chief cabinet secretary, Yoshito Sengoku, told reporters Monday in Cancun that Tokyo would "sternly oppose debate for extending the Kyoto Protocol into a second phase which is unfair and ineffective."

    The Kyoto Protocol, the first phase of which expires in 2012, was adopted in 1997.

    As of July 2010, 191 nations had ratified the protocol, which commits 37 industrialized countries to cut emissions by an average of 5 percent of 1990 levels by 2012. China and the United States, however, are not bound by the treaty, even though they have the highest rates of emissions.


    191 nations have ratified. Have any lived up to the treaty to date? It is just another way for political hacks & fat cats to travel to exotic vacation destinations and waste tax payers money. How many $billions did we waste at Copenhagen? Let the climate change and spend the money to clean up the messes if there are any. If you really believe the AGW BS, don't buy a home on the sea coast like Al Gore.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary, I already clearly CLEARLY explained how just buying a big beach house does NOT automagically mean he does not believe that the sea levels are rising.

    Gary, I already clearly CLEARLY explained how just buying a big beach house does NOT automagically mean he does not believe that the sea levels are rising.

    Gary, I already clearly CLEARLY explained how just buying a big beach house does NOT automagically mean he does not believe that the sea levels are rising.

    Gary, I already clearly CLEARLY explained how just buying a big beach house does NOT automagically mean he does not believe that the sea levels are rising.

    Did you not take my perfectly good list of reasons last time seriously?

    I think rather than "pick a position and stick with if forever" people should be reasonable and look at things objectively and not bring prior bias into their decision making process.

    Hate AlGore. Hate him for his lies, Hate him for his obvious hypocrisy. Hate him for Cap-N-Trade. Hate him for lying to school kids.

    But just because he bought a house "near a beach" does NOT automagically mean he does not believe the ocean levels are rising.

    It. Just. Doesn't.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It. Just. Doesn't.

    Only in your mind... He does not believe the crap he is trying to sell the World. If he did he would be downsizing his carbon footprint. Not expanding it in a HUGE way. Buying luxury boats that burn carbon fuel. Buying luxury homes that use more energy and add more CO2 than many villages in the 3rd World. He is a charlatan pure and simple. Your trying to justify his motives does not wash. It is BUNK. And all the spin in the world from you will not cover up the truth about Al Gore. He is a menace to society.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Gulfstream Greens: Gore the Man vs. Gore the Messenger

    "Al Gore, he says he's green, but he rented my Gulf Stream to fly alone to Los Angeles". It took me a minute to process this neatly delivered packet of information at a party recently. Obviously, the messenger didn't have a problem with his flying in a fuel guzzling machine since he routinely flew it alone, so I wondered whether it was Gore's campaigning for the earth to which he took offense or truly the two points combined.

    I felt an instinctual reaction to defend Gore for waking up a large part of the country to the warming of our planet despite his less-than-exemplary personal life (see my post Hitler was a vegetarian), but the Gulf Stream owner had a point. Still stumbling for a response, I replied, "oh, how much fuel does that take?".

    This must not have been the standard reaction to his bit of gossip as he fumbled for a moment before guessing, "maybe about 11 to 15 thousand gallons". That is a lot of fuel-- roughly equal to adding 15 to 20 Americans to the road for a year (while jet fuel isn't equal to gasoline it uses petroleum and gallon for gallon more petroleum than gas). Even if his calculation was off (I read that a mid-size Gulf Stream uses 2,400 to 3,000 for a roundtrip cross country flight though his jet could be much larger), we're still talking about the equivalent in fuel of several Americans for an entire year.

    Jet-setting greens

    Gore isn't the only celebrity to be nailed for his choice of aircraft, there are both "Gulfstream liberals" (even HuffPo's Ariana Huffington and Laurie David have received the moniker) and "Learjet liberals" (like activist RFK, Jr. or the hybrid-driving, solar-panel-owning producer of the eco-film 11th Hour Leonardo DiCaprio).

    Just about every celebrity has flown in a private jet at some point, but once they start speaking out for the planet, their jet setting ways become an easy target.

    When Madonna headlined London's Live Earth concert in 2007, environmental consultant John Buckley took a look at the flights and car trips of the Material Girl and her entourage and calculated her carbon footprint for the year. "Madonna produces the same amount of carbon as 102 average Britons," Buckley concluded, "even though she runs a global business she's also set herself up as some sort of ambassador for the environment. Therefore she needs to be seen to be walking the walk as well as singing the song.".
    The rest of the story to justify their opulent lifestyles is on Huff n Puff....

    I live a fairly good lifestyle. I could afford to spend more and use more energy. I could probably cut back and use less. The difference is I am not preaching to get those with less than I have to buck it up and save energy. Why would I? Just so those fat cat Lear Jet Eco Nut Liberals have more fuel to burn. Not a chance. I say to those struggling don't give up hope for a better way of life on account of the propaganda you see from the fat cat eco nuts.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    He might be all you say.

    But the act of buying a home near a beach does NOT MEAN that he does not believe the ocean levels are rising.

    He might indeed believe they are rising. Or not.

    But the act of buying the house tells us NOTHING about his opinions.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    What is this, Ground Hog Day? No body is talking about the seas rising except you. If that is the only thing you can refute, that is pretty lame.

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  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    What a surprise - on the warmest decade - info! The very people running the GW meeting, and their paid scientists who have many billions of reasons to find it so!
    I believe I read in The Gulag Archipelago that Ol' Alexandre described the Soviet courts worked like that.

    I think gagrice has reported many times that the official temperatures being reported don't jive with many other temperature sources. Now if that's typical at all ...
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I'm not refuting anything about ocean levels.

    Gary is on this tangent that "because AlGore bought a beach mansion" that obviously means he does not believe the ocean levels are rising.

    I'm just saying that connection is not necessarily true.

    He's OLD. He knows that even IF ocean levels are rising, he will be dead and gone long before the waves are lapping at his patio doors.

    There is no contradiction between thinking that ocean levels are rising and buying a beach house if you are a man in your 60s.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There is no contradiction between thinking that ocean levels are rising and buying a beach house if you are a man in your 60s.

    I think my statements on the subject are more far reaching than just the small issue of supposed rising oceans. If Al Gore believes that our impact on the climate is for real, he would not expand his carbon footprint. The beach mansion does generate a lot of CO2. I would imagine the climate control is quite energy dependent.

    It is all probably moot as Tipper may get it in the divorce. Or maybe their children. You want to believe that Al Gore believes the bunk he preaches. I think he could have started out with good intentions back in the 1970s. When he realized the potential for personal gain, it was go for it without any solid data to back up his claims. The $100 million he has made selling lies, pretty much backs up my claim.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "You want to believe that Al Gore believes the bunk he preaches."

    No, that is not a true statement. In any shape, form, or fashion.

    You know how I feel about AlGore. I'm NOT a fan.

    I just disagree that just because he bought a beach property that he automatically is removed from the pool of people who might believe the ocean levels are rising. I just don't think they are related.
  • wevkwevk Member Posts: 179
    Sorry if this has been posted before.

    "Solar scientists are finally overcoming their fears and going public about the Sun-climate connection"
    Read more: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/21/its-the-sun-stupid/#ixzz179fJIvl7-
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am confused. You don't believe what Al Gore is preaching, but do believe the oceans are rising? And you say you would not be adverse to buying a beach front home fully believing it will one day be under water? And preaching against our waste of energy is not incongruous with buying a large carbon footprint home? Unless you are 60 years old and could care less about what happens 100 years from now. I got news for you, not many people alive today will be around 100 years from now. So age should not enter into the equation.

    Quite frankly I think you are confusing pollution of the planet with AGW. They are not even close to the same. One is being dealt with the other is a scam to extort money from the US and pass it to dictators in 3rd World countries for political favors.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Thank you, we do need to put the SUN as the number ONE source of heat in our universe. AGW proponents would like to discount the sun's energy and dump it all on man to push their carbon credit scam.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Cancun talks start with a call to the gods
    By Juliet Eilperin

    With United Nations climate negotiators facing an uphill battle to advance their goal of reducing emissions linked to global warming, it's no surprise that the woman steering the talks appealed to a Mayan goddess Monday.

    Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change, invoked the ancient jaguar goddess Ixchel in her opening statement to delegates gathered in Cancun, Mexico, noting that Ixchel was not only goddess of the moon, but also "the goddess of reason, creativity and weaving. May she inspire you -- because today, you are gathered in Cancun to weave together the elements of a solid response to climate change, using both reason and creativity as your tools."


    This bunch are more desperate than the ones in Copenhagen.

    image
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Let me unconfuse you....

    I could care less what AlGore says or does, as it relates to my own beliefs. I'm not listening to anything he says, and never have.

    But If I were 60, and knew I had only 20-30 years left, and had the money, and wanted a beach house, I would NOT CARE if there was a theory around that says ocean levels are rising. I would just become one of probably millions of other people around the world with a beach house. And I would enjoy the heck out of it.

    At some point later while I were still alive, if science proved the ocean levels were rising in my area enough to disrupt my house, I would sell. Or tear down the portion closest to the ocean. Or build a giant sea wall. Whatever.

    But I can assure you there are other people besides AlGore who think ocean levels might be rising and STILL own beach homes. That belief does not disqualify you from enjoying a beach property.

    I'm not "confusing" pollution and climate change at all. They are very closely tied issues. Pollution comes from human activity - which is what the AGW people preach is also causing AGW. So they are inexorably tied together. Cut one down, you impact the other, if there even IS an other.

    My position is this: because we KNOW the ills of pollution, and regardless of the climate effects of pollution it IS awful, that we should work to cut pollution.

    IF we end up killing two birds with one stone, then great.

    But the one bird we are killing is a nasty one when we cut pollution.

    We need to study the effects of CO2 on global climate. Find out for sure if CO2 levels rising leads to rising temperatures across the globe.

    Right now, you have battling views on each side. That needs to get settled.

    These folks want pollution cut for sure:

    IRAN: Nightmarish blanket of brown smog continues to choke Tehran
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2010
    These folks want pollution cut for sure:

    That is a big assumption on your part. If they did would they continue to expand the city as they are? Would people continue to drive old vehicles spewing black smoke? That haze will be nothing compared to the nuclear fallout when they start the next world war. Building a subway will not fix their pollution problems. That smog looks much like the current smog up against the San Bernardino Mts East of Los Angeles. It only clears out when it rains, which is not very often. It is the result of too many people living in too small of an area. The cleanest vehicles built cause pollution sometime in their life. We choose to push it elsewhere. It will get around to US sooner or later.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Double talk and hogwash !!

    With all the problems in the world, GW is so far down the list that it doesn't even register. Do all the studies you want, just pay for them with private funds and keep your hands out of my pocket. If these leeches could not get tax dollars, you would find out how committed they are.

    Hopefully our new Congress will give these crooks at the U.N. a dose of reality.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • lostwrench1lostwrench1 Member Posts: 1,165
    edited December 2010
    Watching a lecturer speaking of the evils of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere while he opens a can of soda pop.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,322
    I read in the paper this morning that the GW cultists are saying that we may have to resort to "science fiction" solutions to fix climate change . These include releasing sulphur dioxide in the stratosphere, spraying salt on ocean clouds and dumping iron into the ocean to spur plankton growth.

    So in the future when larsb goes on his vacation cruise the social director will have him dumping iron power over the rail in between shuffleboard contests.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Hmm, unless you have some sort of good renewable energy, I can't imagine you'd get rid of more CO2 than, the amount of energy needed to 1) manufacture large quantities of sulfur dioxide, and then 2) the energy to fly? or somehow pump ? the sulfur dioxide that high.

    With all the autos, homes, factories, and utility companies producing CO2, imagine the size of the project that would be needed just to keep the CO2 level from increasing! Such an effort would bankrupt the world; meaning the already shortage of resources for 6+ billion people would be much worse. We'd probably all have a lifestyle like the N. Koreans!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2010
    What happened to the 'warmest year on record': The truth is global warming has halted
    By David Rose
    Last updated at 4:17 PM on 5th December 2010

    Last week, halfway through yet another giant, 15,000delegate UN climate jamboree, being held this time in the tropical splendour of Cancun in Mexico, the Met Office was at it again.

    Never mind that Britain, just as it was last winter and the winter before, was deep in the grip of a cold snap, which has seen some temperatures plummet to minus 20C, and that here 2010 has been the coolest year since 1996.

    Globally, it insisted, 2010 was still on course to be the warmest or second warmest year since current records began.

    But buried amid the details of those two Met Office statements 12 months apart lies a remarkable climbdown that has huge implications - not just for the Met Office, but for debate over climate change as a whole.

    Read carefully with other official data, they conceal a truth that for some, to paraphrase former US VicePresident Al Gore, is really inconvenient: for the past 15 years, global warming has stopped.

    This isn't meant to be happening. Climate science orthodoxy, as promulgated by bodies such as the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit (CRU), says that temperatures have risen and will continue to rise in step with increasing CO2 in the atmosphere, and make no mistake, with the rapid industrialisation of China and India, CO2 levels have kept on going up.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1335798/Global-warming-halted-Tha- - ts-happened-warmest-year-record.html
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    It has dropped to the 3rd warmest on record.

    WMO says 2010 to be third warmest year on record
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    WMO jumped the gun in hopes it would keep the AGW dream alive.
  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    edited December 2010
    And you expected otherwise??? :lemon:
    The continuing mantra has to be perpetuated: We're all melting; We're all melting..
    These are nothing more than a new cabal of 21st Century Robber Barons; nothing more; nothing less.
    The total irony and farce of it all is that China and other countries repeatedly say tthat they will not participate in this scam. Which pretty much says it all now doesn't it!
    I wonder what the NWO proponents are going to do with China when everybody else has been swept into the fold. HA! I don't think they'll cooperate. Now that presents a conundrum doesn't it!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2010
    !5,000 worthless leeches have their vacation plans ruined by record cold.

    Irony alert: The unusually chilly global-warming summit
    Cancun is hosting the U.N. conference on man-made climate change — amid record cold temperatures

    Climate-change skeptics are gleefully calling Cancun's weather the latest example of the "Gore Effect" — a plunge in temperature they say occurs wherever former Vice President Al Gore, now a Nobel Prize-winning environmental activist, makes a speech about the climate. Although Gore is not scheduled to speak in Cancun, "it could be that the Gore Effect has announced his secret arrival," jokes former NASA scientist Roy W. Spencer.
    The reaction: ClimateGate was "bad enough," says Duncan Davidson in Wall Street Pit, but Cancun's weather is particularly "inconvenient" for global-warming alarmists. It's a reminder that global temperatures have "flatlined" despite rising carbon dioxide levels, "which is decidedly chilling against the concept of hampering economic growth to limit Co2 emissions.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Well at least since they started keeping records in the UK.

    Gavin has emailed me a correction on the CET temperatures... Apparently the records only exist into the 1700s for the month, so we can't be sure it's the coldest week since the 1600s.

    Here is what he said...

    It's been pointed out to me that one of the facts I have given you is wrong.

    When I said it's been the second 1st-8th December on CET record, with records starting in 1659, that was wrong. Whilst monthly CET records do indeed begin in 1659, the daily data only begins in 1772."

    So it appears that we can only confirm this was the coldest since 1772. I am sure that will warm the cockles of all your hearts.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    edited December 2010
    Let's see it's still fall, and this happens

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/12/winter.weather/index.html?hpt=T1

    How arm is it in Florida or Cancun for that matter? Obviously the world is not too warm; winter has not even arrived yet, and we've had 1+ month of snowy weather all over the U.S.

    You've got to be near-brainwashed into believeing whatever an authority figure tells you is the truth, as the evidence is right in front of us, year-after-year.

    Now that we've been postin weather for several years, I would say we are prettyy close to having enough weather to say we're talking climate. It's cold, miserable, snowy, and icy.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    edited December 2010
    despite, recession, hybrids, and EV's. Why? Foreign growth due to transfer of wealth, and population growth.

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/10/news/economy/oil_demand_prices/index.htm
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2010
    18 million cars sold in China. I think that passes our biggest year ever. They were not supposed to pass US until 2016. Guess the peasants did not want to wait that long. Even if they sell a lot of EVs in China they still get 70% of their electricity from Coal. Only a small percentage is Clean Coal Power.

    Not sure about India. Just read that Suzuki sold 30,000 of one model in November. So India will be using more oil also I don't think all the praying the AGW cult did to their pagan god in Cancun will change the dynamics of World growth and industry.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Usually when we get so much cold weather, he scours the world looking for somewhere that's warmer than normal and posts that as proof that warming is still occurring. Could he be stuck in a snowdrift on an Indiana highway?

    I hope all the data collector's aren't losing this information on record low temperatures across the Northern hemisphere.

    I don't get how people can be in favor of hoping the climate stays as it is. At 59F average the Earth is too cold, and we spend too much energy trying to stay warm for too much of the year. If the average temperature of Earth increased to 75F, I'd be happy. I have my sights set on moving to Nevada or Hawaii in the next 10 years.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited December 2010
    I'm right here folks.

    Suffering through two in a row (and three in the last week)

    RECORD

    HIGH

    TEMPERATURE

    days in the PHX.

    All smiles :):):):) :shades:

    P.S. Not really SUFFERING though. 82 and 76 are not bad this time of year.....:)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    P.S. Not really SUFFERING though. 82 and 76 are not bad this time of year.....

    Just a word about the erroneous figures being pushed by the NWS and the media for the SW. Yes it was very warm IN THE SUN those days. Temps should be ambient not direct sun figures. When it was being posted as 85.5 degrees on Monday it was actually only 71 degrees out of the sun. So more skewed worthless data from our worthless guvmint. More facts that are skewed to push an agenda. I think the massive explosion on the sun's surface is probably responsible for the strange record temps both high and low. Of course the AGW cult do not want to consider the sun in any of their theories.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=sun+explosion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firef- ox-a&rlz=1R1GGIC_en___US345
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Nice idea, blaming it on the sun.

    BUT:

    EVEN if the Sun IS involved in SOME of the heating,

    We
    Still
    Can't
    Rule
    Out
    Other
    Contributing
    Factors.

    Thus, saying "it's JUST the SUN, People!" solves nothing and proves nothing.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Thus, saying "it's JUST the SUN, People!" solves nothing and proves nothing.

    And what do phony temperature readings from the NWS prove? Other than there is an agenda to be pushed? The sun explosion is a provable fact. Its effect on our weather is UNKNOWN. That does not mean it is not a factor in our climate. The Sun is the major factor in our climate and will be till it shuts itself off and we die a slow death in the dark.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I reject out of hand your unproven opinion that NWS weather data is published with bias.

    I think that's a total crock.

    The NWS existed before AGW was even a baby thought in AlGore's little brain.

    To think there is a "grand conspiracy" to falsify weather records is totally ludicrous.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    So you are saying that all those incriminating emails just don't exist ??

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  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    To which e-mails are you referring?

    Please don't answer Climategate.

    Because that stuff has been cleared by 5 independent reviews already.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Your opinions on the NWS does not change the fact that a big percentage of their weather stations put out questionable readings. You seem to think NWS is an individual. It is made up of 1000s of people many of whom are AGW cult members. You hate the FACT that the actual world climate is growing colder That pretty much shoots all the fake data we have been fed into the toilet. If only 10% of the data is wrong it throws the whole consensus out the window. Just a lot of people like yourself believe whatever you are told by the lying Federal agencies. If you think any of them lie, you have to discount all of them as liars. No cherry picking liars allowed. They are either all honest or all liars.

    image
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited December 2010
    Wait, wait, there, Oh King of the Unfounded Rumor.

    What makes you think (and how could anyone possibly know?) that ANY employee of the NWS, much less the "thousands" of them, are AGW believers and AlGore disciples?

    Do they have that on the employee application? Does it say something like:

    Check this box if you love AlGore. If this box not checked, we will not call you back.

    That takes a grand assumption, and is an incorrect one.

    You keep intimating that I am the brainwashed one. I think maybe the mirror is a good place to look for that.

    P.S. You can no more prove the "cooling" than I can prove the "warming." So neither of us has anything to stand on in that regard. If either side was "proven" then the debate would be over, and we both know it's not.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Because that stuff has been cleared by 5 independent reviews already.

    You know as well as anyone here those 5 studies were proven to be political BS. All linked back to CRS and East Anglia University. Those involved in Climategate are mostly out of the picture. They were disgraced by their lies and dubious data manipulation. The UN IPCC is even less credible than the people from EACRU. They will keep hanging on as long as they get their countries to foot the bill on fancy vacations to great places. CC and Greed go hand in hand. Take away the funding and the rhetoric will die in minutes.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Cleared by themselves you mean.

    Did you actually read the CLIMATEGATE emails? I did, and I think I have the intellect to understand what I was reading. I also know an attempted whitewash when I see one.

    No one is disputing that man has a very small impact on local weather, etc. No need to spend money on something everyone already knows. Man's effect is so small it is beyond meaningless.

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    much less the "thousands" of them,

    I said many of them. Not all I am sure. Many are just there to collect a pay check. I would bet money there are a lot of Warmers in the agencies involved. That is how they got their jobs back 20 years ago under the Clinton Gore administration. Some have left in disgust over the lies and half truths used to push the agenda. If buying and selling Carbon Credits was taken out of the equation and it was strictly scientists wanting to know whatsup, I could agree with you. As long as big money is involved, I call BS. And you are being used to push a phony agenda.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I'm not going to get into a huge Climate-Gate discussion, because it's as useless as our other discussions - some people were convinced beyond doubt that something EVIL went on, and others know it was just scientists trying to defend themselves against other people with refuting data.

    That's the problem with AGW - there are VALID DATA for both sides of the discussion.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2010
    That's the problem with AGW - there are VALID DATA for both sides of the discussion.

    There we agree. There is probably a lot of valid data that backs up GW. Just not data that can accurately be projected out a hundred years or even a couple years. When Katrina hit the leaders of the AGW crowd said we will get even worse hurricanes as a result of man's burning fossil fuel. The years since Katrina have been some of the mildest hurricane seasons on record. That is just one little example of the proponents of AGW trying to use fear to get people behind their agenda. And their agenda is very clear. Extort money from the rich countries and distribute it through private hands such as the CC companies Al Gore was so involved in. AGW is all about money and nothing else.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Scientific' American may regret taking their recent opinion poll on the state of climate science given the eye-opening results cast by their "scientifically literate" readership. With a total of 5190 respondents, a consensus of 81.3% think the IPCC is "a corrupt organization, prone to group-think, with a political agenda" and 75% think climate change is caused by solar variation or natural processes vs. 21% who think it is due to greenhouse gases from human activity. 65% think we should do nothing about climate change since "we are powerless to stop it," and the same percentage think science should stay out of politics. When asked, "How much would you be willing to pay to forestall the risk of catastrophic climate change?," 76.7% said "nothing."

    http://www.surveymonkey.com/sr.aspx?sm=ONSUsVTBSpkC_2f2cTnptR6w_2fehN0orSbxLH1gI- A03DqU_3d

    Of course SA is trying to do damage control as you might suspect as they get a lot of government money by extorting huge amounts of money for their liberal rags to universities.
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