Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Yes one might consider all the people travelling to DC for this show, to be a waste of resources, when one could stay home and watch it on TV. A lot of money and time would be saved also.

    I didn't see many people suffering from GW in the crowd; most had parka hoods on. Maybe the Secret Service (nearly abbreviated that to SS - which might have some negative connotations) could leave their black SUV's running.

    Actually my idea would be for Obama to just have used a conference room in the White House, and using the movie technology of generating scenes - like in Gladiator - simply put in whatever backdrop and crowd you want.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    President Obama gave a great speech today. One of the best I have heard. I sure hope he can back it up.

    With all the bad news piling up, one guy on TV said this may be the first presidential election in history where the winner demands a recount !! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Dems screamed bloody murder when they spent $42 million on the Bush inauguration. This one cost US $170 million. I don't recall that much inflation over the last 8 years. You would think all those people would have taken the chill off of DC...I was just reading about the debate our Congress went through to decide how President Washington should be addressed. Not much has changed in 200 years.

    At least they did not have the GW goof balls to contend with. Just the French Revolution.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    President Obama gave a great speech today. One of the best I have heard.

    I didn't hear the speech. But obviously the stock market heard some other discouraging things - losing 4-5% today! :(:(

    Hopefully one of the strategies to reduce global warming is NOT to push the global economy into a full depression! :cry:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Antarctica not immune to warming

    he Earth's lone holdout to climate change, Antarctica, is actually warming, says a new study in today's edition of the journal Nature.

    Scientists had long thought that while some isolated parts of Antarctica had been warming, much of the continent had been cooling over the past 50 years. But the new analysis found that since 1957, when measured as a whole, the continent's temperature has risen about 1 degree Fahrenheit .

    "The thing you hear all the time is that Antarctica is cooling — and that's not the case," says study lead author Eric Steig, a University of Washington professor of Earth and space sciences. "If anything, it's the reverse, but it's more complex than that. Antarctica isn't warming at the same rate everywhere."

    Perhaps most troubling is that "a fairly large part of West Antarctica is warming more than we realized," says study co-author Michael Mann, a climatologist at Pennsylvania State University.Scientists say West Antarctica is the ice sheet most susceptible to a possible collapse in the future due to warming global temperatures. If the ice sheet collapsed, it would cause cataclysmic sea-level rise around the world.
    FIND MORE STORIES IN: United States | Canada | Earth | Fahrenheit | University of Washington | University of Colorado | Nature | Antarctica | Penn State University | National Center for Atmospheric Research | South Pole | Michael Mann | Researchers | University of Victoria | Andrew Weaver | John Christy | Earth System Science Center | University of Alabama-Huntsville | Drew Shindell | West Antarctica | Eric Steig | Roger Pielke Sr | East Antarctica

    Technique questioned

    Researchers in this study developed a new technique that combined data from satellites and automated weather stations in Antarctica to make what they say is the best estimate of the continent's temperature so far. However, there are very few weather stations on Antarctica, and the satellite data have been available for only the past 25 years.


    I predict that there will never in my lifetime be a significant Climate Study in which the conclusion is agreed upon by every scientist who sees it.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Great news !! Maybe we will get some relief from the cold weather !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Researchers in this study developed a new technique that combined data from satellites and automated weather stations in Antarctica to make what they say is the best estimate of the continent's temperature so far.

    Well there you have irrefutable proof of how true this must be; ;) they've proclaimed their own work "the best". I'm proclaiming this post the best of any in Edmund's this month! ;) LOL
  • murphydogmurphydog Member Posts: 735
    houdini -

    your points are good, spending any money and resources to live in the desert is wasteful - though the other poster won't admit that. The whole idea of living in a sprawling city in the desert while complaining that people are wasting resources is well typical hypocritical double speak.

    As is taking 5,000 mile joy rides across the country when one could take the bus - but never mind all that - remember that cars a bad - unless you drive between AZ and TX a few times a year - then you are golden.

    On a side note, I am going to fly to Phoenix, crank the AC and play golf for three wonderful days - may even take a stroll around that big old Penske dealership in Scottsdale!

    :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Al Gore WHO??? Latest polls show total lack of concern about GW. Out of 20 items that concern Americans. GW is dead last. Hopefully it is dead in the water. We do not need to waste tax dollars on such foolishness. You can tell where Ahnold's head is. When he asks Obama to let CA regulate GHG. This is when the state is on the verge of bankruptcy he wastes our time, paper and ink on such ignorant issues.

    http://people-press.org/report/485/economy-top-policy-priority
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Hey Dog, hit em long and straight. Wish I was going with you.

    I am just waiting for the enviro nuts to start trying to turn all golf courses into protected wetlands and banning golf. Being out in all that fresh air (chemicals) and sunshine (skin cancer) with your friends just has to be bad for you !! ;)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    I just came in from the arctic blast of cold air caused by all the Global Warming my neighbor's SUV is responsible for. I looked at my poor car and saw that it is covered by salt which was put on the highways due to the GW caused ice.

    Can I sue the earth for damage done to my car? :cry:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Global warming 'irreversible' for next 1000 years: study
    link title
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "the solution to Social Security is for us to kill ourselves at age 70"

    That was a TNG storyline, but the age was 65 iirc. Roxanna Troi was in love with the dude, but he only had months to go before he had to check out.

    Don't look at me, just cats here. :shades:
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    the solution to Social Security is for us to kill ourselves at age 70"

    What a great idea. Of course, I am special so it would not apply to me.... :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Seems they are bringing back the liberal DIEBACK scenarios only new and approved for todays PC markets!!?? Just remember a scant 40/50 years ago China and India (etc) were 3rd world theoretical basket cases ready for the dieback. Now the US is trying hard to become a 3rd world nation!!?? So much for the real world predictive value. :(:)

    Diebacks from a social scientific perspective as the policy of extermination of large groups of peoples due to specific policy agenda's.

    link title
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    "... encouraging suicide among aging boomers..."

    If we get one more snow storm here in the north I just may consider that. :cry:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    During a recent cold snap in Minnesota some kiddies and their parents found out the true price of the single-minded push to "Go Green"

    It seems that in Minnesota the green zealots have pushed through a law that requires diesel fuel for school buses to contain 2% biodiesel blend. What the greenies didn't know (or didn't care about) was the fact that biodiesel turns to lard in cold climates. School buses don't run well on cold lard.

    According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, some school buses stalled in recent cold weather, children got stuck in stalled buses or had a long wait in the freezing weather at their bus stops. I wonder how long the proponents of this law stood out in the cold before they passed it?

    Here in NY if you idle a school bus for more than 5 minutes you can be ticketed. In really cold weather it can take a hour for the engine to produce heat for the bus. I frequently have kids yelling and crying to "turn up some heat, PLEASE". My only response is to tell them that the politicians have decided that they have to suffer for the good of the planet. :cry:

    Now it seems that not only will kids have to freeze to stop global warming but walk to school as well.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Follow the money - it was the farmers who backed the 2% biofuel law. Of course, the National Biodiesel Board says it's diesel, not biodiesel that stalled the school buses.

    link, link and link.

    Some say the real culprit is that the supplier used #2 Diesel instead of #1 when blending the fuel.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Number 2 diesel starts to gel at about -20 degrees or even higher. We only ran #1 diesel in the Arctic year round. Not as good as number 2 for energy. Just does not gel at extreme temps. Like all government mandates, they usually end up a mess. This is no exception. Some blender was probably following the letter of the law. It probably said thou shalt mix 2% biodiesel with #2 diesel so saith the legislature. They did and the stuff got hard at sub-zero temps. You would think the farmers would have worked out some kind of deal with Ahnold to sell biodiesel in CA where it could be mixed as B5 year round in most of the state.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    BUT a product such as this would have helped?

    Winter Performance Benefits:

    Prevents fuel gelling in temperatures as low as -40°F.
    Equals the performance of a 50/50 blend of No. 2 and No. 1 diesel fuels
    Lowers Cold-Filter Plugging Point (CFPP) as much as 36°F. — keeps fuel-filters from plugging with wax
    Boosts cetane up to 4 numbers for faster cold starts
    Contains anti-icing additives — protects against fuel-filter icing

    link title
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    "...a product such as this would have helped?..."

    My school district mixes a little kerosene in with the diesel. Seems to do the trick but the exhaust burns your eyes and stinks. Maybe we should try a little soy to sweeten it up and give me a day off. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    I just heard that the colorful sheriff of Maracopa county AZ wants to transport his prisoners via area light rail and public transportation because it is cheaper. How's that for preventing GW due to stinky prison buses?

    As an added bonus you will now know what type of criminal you are sitting next to on the bus. Before, you only THOUGHT half the passengers were psychos and crooks, now you'll KNOW. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    The whole story

    Deputies using light rail to transport inmates
    The Associated Press
    Tucson, Arizona | Published: 01.28.2009

    PHOENIX — The Phoenix area's new light-rail trains have begun transporting prisoners who are flown in from out of state from the airport to downtown Phoenix.
    Armed Maricopa County deputies and Sheriff Joe Arpaio himself accompanied the first prisoner, a woman wanted for felony and forgery, on the light rail to downtown on Tuesday night. The woman covered her face when local news media surrounded her with microphones and television cameras.

    Arpaio said taking prisoners from Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport to his headquarters in downtown will save about $72,000 a year in airport parking fees.
    But all law-enforcement agencies in the state that are transporting inmates can park at the airport for free, said Sky Harbor Deputy Aviation Director Deborah Ostreicher.

    "The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office currently uses this service," she said.
    Arpaio maintained his office pays $27 a day to park at the airport.
    The rides on the light rail will cost deputies and prisoners the standard single ride fare of $1.25 each.

    Hillary Foose, a spokesman with Metro light rail, said her agency is concerned about the safety of passengers because the trains aren't designed for transporting prisoners.

    "We can't prevent this," Foose said. "This is public transportation."

    Arpaio said safety is not an issue.

    "Everyday law enforcement is transporting inmates on airplanes, on trains, so this is nothing unusual other than we're using the new light rail to transport prisoners," Arpaio said.

    He said he would only reconsider the new plan if he receives written verification that his deputies can park for free at the airport.

    During the first inmate transportation on a light-rail train Tuesday, plenty of passengers took notice.

    "It depends on if (the inmates) are violent or nonviolent," Phoenix resident and light-rail rider Nick Correa said. "If they have a history of violence, I'd have a problem with that."


    So if he can save $72,000 a year and guard them suitably well, then hey hey I'm all thumbs up.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    TOO FUNNY !!!!

    The last time I took light rail transportation was going to downtown Portland, Oregon. One couple was on the verge of a fist fight the entire time I was on. Another seemed psychotic looking for someone to try his psychosis on, Another person had the smell of too many days on the street with no shower facilities... Yes, the prisoners will fit right in !!!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    That's no different than going into a Wal-Mart. I'd rather ride a bus all day than spend an hour in some of the Wal-Mart stores in the Phoenix area.

    Public transportation has an unfair bad reputation.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Having ridden some of the finest and the not so fine, starting at a fairly young age (5/6 years old), it does seem to have the reputation it deserves.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    This can be shown right along with The Day After Tomorrow. They even have the same director.

    "2012," a special-effects flick starring John Cusack and directed by Roland Emmerich, of "The Day After Tomorrow" fame, is scheduled to be released this fall. The trailer shows a monk running to a bell tower on a mountaintop to sound the alarm as a huge wall of water washes over what appear to be the peaks of the Himalayas.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/01/27/2012.maya.calendar.theories/index.htm- - l
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Actually, no it does not. More and more people are taking it, so the pool of "homeless and stinky" is getting logically reduced in percentage.

    It's time to move on past this outdated stereotype, which people use as a COMPLETELY INVALID reason for not taking public transportation.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    "...public transportation has an unfair bad reputation..."

    From my family's experience I'd say ruking1 paints a pretty accurate picture.

    When my boys were in their early teens I started them riding the bus so they didn't have to rely on me to take them everywhere. I figured the mile and a half walk to the bus stop was good exercise too, not to mention that young males need to experience "adventure" and independence. They would take the bus to the mall and to friend's houses which were on the bus line.

    At one point I happened to ask them how they liked riding the bus. They said "dad, there are a lot of strange people riding the bus". I asked them to elaborate and was shocked to hear their story.

    It seems that they were cursed at and threatened by racists, gang bangers and various psychotics on almost every trip. I was not sad to see them get their driver's licenses so they no longer had to take the risk of riding the bus.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Like I said - maybe it WAS a valid complaint in some areas in some eras.

    It's not the case in MOST areas now.

    Things change, old-timer. This is one which has.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    "...2012..."

    What? You didn't know that the world will end on 2012? I'm counting on it. Those suckers at Mitsubishi finance don't realize that I'm not going to be paying the last 12 months of my car loan. Ha Ha Ha. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Things change, old-timer. This is one which has. "...

    Yup ! It goes from bad to worse, and the regulars can tell you more !!!

    Mine was a snap shot !!!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    You know I meant "FOR THE BETTER."
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yup when Pastor John Hagee (TV/cable Televangist) is raptured, you will know the end is very near ! :blush:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    What kind of basis is that anyway, an argument against taking public transportation:

    "I might have to sit by a stinky guy for 15 minutes"

    "I might see a white trash couple arguing"

    "I might see a prisoner getting transported by 2 armed guards"

    You see how silly those arguments are, when the benefit is so obvious to us all?

    Take one for the team, folks. I'd hate to think or to tell my kids, "We are TOO GOOD to take public transportation!"

    That's just about the height of snootiness.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well yes, I would have hoped the Portland experience would have been... for the better!! Portland by all accounts is one of the BETTER systems !!!

    As Emerald LaGassee is fond of saying, you don't have smell a vision (thank heaven in this case). What was not conveyed was the smell of "urea and yesterday's probably disagree able meal".
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    "...Things change, old-timer..."

    And just how did they change, sonny? Do they screen the passenger as they get on the bus to weed out the gang members? Do you have to take a psychological test to make sure you aren't taking your other personality out for a ride? Do they ask people "do you dis-like people who's skin color is different than yours"? Or do they now only run the bus routes through the rich neighborhoods? :confuse:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    TB (if you care to check is a contagious diease spread in some cases by coughing) is on rise (SF/SF county).

    No homeland security alerts for the local yokels. Do you remember the bru ha ha when a known TB patient ( a personal injury lawyer no less) took an aircraft ride?? Yikes !!!!!

    Nor do the health officials make an issue of it. (probably for obvious reasons) So snootiness? I think you are projecting.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Things change, old-timer. This is one which has.

    Yes things change. Some of San Diego school districts are raising the charge to ride the school bus from $400 to $500 per year. Pushing more moms into driving kids to school in the SUV. This in a state that claims to be Green. CA is about as green as mud. Our local school districts joined 13 others this year charging kids to ride the STINKY diesel school buses. Just glad my kids are grown. I'd have to buy one of these puppies like Kucher used to drive Demi Moore's girls to school in:

    image
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The utilities in Michigan will be cutting GHG by disconnecting all the old people's electricity this winter. It will save in so many ways. Just what you would expect from a progressive state like Michigan. :sick:
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    "..."I might see a white trash couple arguing"..."

    The OP said nothing about the race of the couple arguing. Why would you assume that they were white? I find the term "white trash" offensive. Race has no place in this discussion.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed I would agree !!!
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,406
    "...I'd have to buy one of these puppies..."

    Good choice, I see you went with the custom wheels. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    They change when more "average joes" take public transportation, which has happened in the last few years.

    In the old days, before the green movement, just about EVERYONE who took the bus had a very good chance of being what many people might call a "societal loser" in the stereotypical way.

    Homeless, or no car because of poverty, or a criminal who had their license suspended, or a mental outpatient. In some areas, gangs used mass transit and did "gang-ish" things on the systems. There was little or no enforcement.

    That has gradually changed in virtually every major city.

    Now, you will see lots of people on a bus who have a perfectly good car, or who have jobs, or who have a bike they are co-commuting to work with.

    College and high school students in the Phoenix area get reduced or free rates. Most every bus or train I have taken here in the last few years has had college and/or high school kids on board.

    With increased ridership of "normal people" and not just the losers of society, the percentages of who many people would call "losers" has gone down rapidly.

    I have not seen one bad incident, or seen one reported, on Phoenix metro area mass transit in a long time. Maybe there are incidents, but they are few and far between.

    I had similar results in San Francisco.

    I'm not talking out my butt here - Google it if you don't believe me.

    In 2003, each weekday, approximately 31 million trips were taken in the US. After transfers and round trips, more than 14 million people use public transportation.

    Those numbers have gone up I'm sure.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What kind of basis is that anyway, an argument against taking public transportation:

    Stinky+ deal killer
    Fighting couple+ don't want to get shot by stray bullet when it turns ugly
    Transporting prisoners= best use for city bus

    Snooty is driving a Prius and acting like you are better than someone driving an SUV.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    .."In the old days, before the green movement, just about EVERYONE who took the bus had a very good chance of being what many people might call a "societal loser" in the stereotypical way. "...

    I have to TOTALLY disagree with your premise !!! Perhaps the assumptions you have drive you to the attitudes you do have. So while you have your opionion, we should agree to disagree on the assumptions.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Here's the best one - some of us don't want to, and we don't have to, so we don't.

    Everyone else can feel free to mind their own business.

    I'm glad you like public transportation. If I lived in, say, New York or Philadelphia, I'd take it, for it is convenient and saves parking fees and wear-and-tear on the car in an urban environment. But then, I have no desire to live anywhere near a large metropolitan area, so that reason is out the window.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Now, you will see lots of people on a bus

    That is the problem. You do not see lots of people on the Bus or trolley. The bus that comes through my village rarely has more than 2 or 3 people on it. The only thing out here is the Indian Casino and their buses get used pretty regular for employees and customers. Difference is they can boot off a stinky beggar. The City cannot do that so easily. The trolley went past us yesterday headed into San Diego. On 4 cars there was 3 people riding. Each had their own multi million dollar trolley car to themselves. That would be the only way to go. What a waste of tax dollars is MASS Transit. At least in San Diego county it is. They are cutting routes which is a step in the right direction.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have no desire to live anywhere near a large metropolitan area, so that reason is out the window.

    Bingo, my thoughts exactly. The only time I was in San Diego in the last year was to catch a flight to Hawaii. It is 32 miles and a world away. Thankfully.
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