What yr suburban are you thinking of? 80's or 90's? I know a few people who have had 80's and 90's burbs with little problems. One guy did have to replace an engine on an 84 but it had like 200,000 mls + on it.
The ONLY problem with minivan is image. They can be luxurious, roomy, reasonably fast, and can carry tons of kids and supplies. They are easy to get in and out of and easier to clean out because of the easy access and flat floor. Buy the minivan and get a "sport" decal if it helps the image.
Timothy - "What I continue to rant against is the nasty tendency you and many others have to include personal put downs (everyone can spell ideology by now!)."
"This drivel -- I mean now some of you (you know who you are!) are giving serious, point-by-point responses to sarcasm!?! If that doesn't scream out "YOU NEED A LIFE!!!" then...."
Timothy - You seem to have a lot of energy about this issue, yet you continue to read and post to this topic. I think that it should be obvious by now that I was being sarcastic when I posted about "ideology".
Are you "giving serious, point-by-point responses to sarcasm!?!" Are you in need of a Life?
"I HAVE stated that Chevies do not have the same quality and reliability as a Toyota. Never have and never will." ...and you say I'M wearing blinders?
"You have posted numerous times about your perfect truck - can you spell "hypocrite"? ...in fact, i can. and it's nice to know that we've finally gotten through to you. it's unfortunate that we have to go the extent of appearing to be hypocrites to do so. the whole point of declaring the silverado "perfect" because I'VE had no problems was to eliminate your contention that since YOU'VE not experienced it with your tundra, that it can't be possible (reference warped rotors). that was the only response you had to that challenge. we simply have been working diligently at showing you these flaws are not rumors or isolated occurrences.
"I have posted several different highly regarded sources (J.D. Powers and Consumer Reports are two) which back up my statements. The source for these ratings are the results of surveys filled out by owners of these trucks...These sources post failure rates. This is independent of how many vehicles are sold." ...i agree with "rates". however "initial quality" (jd powers) has very little to do with failure rates. how can you expect consumer reports to be able to reflect any semblance of accurate data when the first model year of tundra JUST CLOSED? is it fair to say that, because the '99 'rado posted bad numbers in consumer reports that you can blindly stumble into a toyota dealer and purchase a tundra? makes no sense at all. if you're going to rely on CR, why not wait until CR has had the chance to evaluate tundra for a year (as it did with the silverado)?
lastly, i'd still like to hear why it is you think tundras brakes are SO much better than chevy. granted 6 feet is 6 feet, but in your opinion, is that really "MUCH stronger"? and if so, why did toyota do away with rear drums on their SC Tundra?
bco
note: i hope you will notice i did not reply-in-kind to any of your personal attacks. i hope we can move past that BS now...
My wife drives a Blazer and likes it. It is narrow like an S-10 because they are built on the same frame. The Blazer/Jimmy soesn't sit up as high as the Explorer and doesn't have the same rollover problems.
As far as minivans go, I can't see why something built on a car chassis and as tall as an SUV is not a rollover hazard.
Course you could opt to spend $40k on a fancied up Astro van with TV and video games.
If ya goin work it, get ya a big3 one now. If fad chasin, get ya that mini-van or that turndra, they be bout the same as far as workin em. Facts is facts on this one. Good luck on this one now!
Not all minivans are built on car chassis; in fact only a few are. But the answer to your probably rhetorical musing is that the minivans have a significantly lower centers of gravity than most, if not all, SUVs. CofG is the single most important factor in roll-over/not tendencies.
Bamatundra .There are people on here that have owned both new Toyota and Chevy trucks. I have purchased 4 new trucks in the last 3 years and have had both of these makes for the last ten years. These trucks have been in use in severe duty from farm to 4x4 recreation.
You are just as opinionated as other people on this thread are. Toyotas are great trucks but GM trucks (as well as Ford and Dodge) are the trucks that do the work in America. These trucks are on the farm, construction sites, plowing roads, bringing your kids to school. They are tested like no Toyota in consumer hands. I can tell you that the engine and transmission are as good as or better than Toyotas. GM automatic transmissions are in everything from BMWs, to Rolls Royces, to Hummers. The GM small black V-8 is legendary. Toyota wanted to use it in the Tundra but GM would not sell it to them. I think you are miss leading your self to think that Toyota is the best. I would much rather have a GM truck under very severe conditions after the warranty expires. Try fixing that Tundra after accidentally driving through a situation that caused water damage, it will cost you more than a new truck. I would bet the Lexus engine alone cost 3 times more to replace. I have a flawless 2000 Chevy Silverado. I also have a not so flawless 1999 Chevy Blazer. I do agree that Toyota has higher initial quality but the price is not the same.
Toyotas cost more with the same options. Toyotas cost more to fix. Toyotas cost more to maintain. Toyota is the ONLY major manufacture NOT to have 100,000-mile tune-ups. If someone buys a truck for the short haul a Toyota maybe a better deal. Keep that truck for ten years and put it to work and you have a completely different story. End of story.
Sounds like the majority of you are saying, just get the minivan...it's not that bad. So...should I go ahead and schedule my castration surgery now or is there still hope?
Ryanbab: Late 80's. It has to be cheap enough to offset any repairs and the poor gas mileage i'll get. Do they come with a third row of seats?
Some 'burbs have the 3rd seat and some don't - it was an add-on option to the Silverado package (even in the 80's). I believe the 87-91 'burbs were fairly reliable, and the 350FI didn't get that bad of mileage, especially with the 3.42 rearend, which (unfortunately) many of the 1500's came with. These are also fairly inexpensive to repair, as parts are plentiful and interchangeable.
If you go the minivan route, I would stick to the Sienna or Odyssey. I don't think they can be beat for reliability and safety.
yes it is that bad....men don't drive mini-vans....and when they do...they are done..
possible 2 out of 3 cars wil be GM eh?..
maybe there is hope for you after all?.....nahhh
LOL
- Tim
if the family route ever came my way...I'd get a burb...slap a lid on the ado...or something ....mini-van would have to come with the surgery....that's for sure...
mini's arn't that bad. You bunch of losers. Had to trade my Silverado for a Caravan and I hated doing it, but it was the smart thing in the end. The wifey drives it and with kids, trips, etc., it can't be beat. SUV's are ok, but small compared to a mini. Had a Blazer and it was no good on long trips - to narrow - they all are except if you get a Suburban, Expedition, etc, but the mileage is terrible. We have a little 9" tv/vcr and it's great for trips. Went with the Grand Caravan cause the rebates made it a steal. I don't drive it that often (I stick with the Intrepid), but it's really not that bad - there are millions of them out there. I looked at Honda's, Toyota's, GM's, etc., and Dodge appeared to have the best deal at the time. Wish I could have kept the truck and traded the car, but can't afford 2 car payments...
I personally am not a Toyota fan, but agree Tundra is probably there best offering. HELL, I live less than 50 miles from the plant, I have tried to make myself like them, but I don't. I still dont think Japenese car makers grasp the big, powerful American truck image. The tundra is still undersized and underpowered, I do not think they would have even offered a v-8 if they were not trying to cater to the chevy, ford crowd. My father has a older toyota he has had good luck with, but I'LL keep my ext cab Z-71 thank you, I wouldn't trade it for a truckload of Toyota's, nissans or dodges, now there's a clunker!!lol!! They should spend some of that fancy ad money on improved transmissions.
Rwell i know in this guys burb at work he had an um 87 or 88 it had the 3rd row seating. It had the upscale "silverado" trim. Dont get a minivan there are options better than that. Just look around dont rush into anything
if going with a minivan.. I think the Caravan would be the choice.. if gonna be brand loyal.. the Sienna seem descent.. but I don't know anything about it.. and like any Toyota.. expensive..
must be an exec. to afford that kind of payments! Started interviewing for GM about a year ago and got a call back today. I think there finally ready to make me an offer. Man there slow...
...I'm just talking car.....gas and Insurance is extra....when gas was $2.60 here...I figured $600 for truck...$125 for insurance..and $225 for Gas...$950 a month to drive!...whoohooo!
....no kids..make good money....why not?
both with gas/insurance probably are that amount too..
who cares......live it when yer young...not old...
...the next truck will be the customizer....current boards will go to it....cut an ASC moonroof in.......power slider...and perhaps a sub and new speakers.......but we gotta get the damn truck first!
I saw a 4 runner today that was pulling a trailer full of pine bark mulch. In addition to the trailer being totally loaded - the guy also had the rear end of the SUV full of mulch (in bags), he even had a few bags tied to the trailer tongue. The bumper was only inches from the ground. IMO it would be better to make two trips. Not only was this hard on this SUV - it was not very safe.
Lets report all them forien ones that be workin. This will get that truth on em out quicker now. Saw one "haulin" a box today. That one might had been a tundra or a tacoma one, maybe even one of them t100 ones, they all be hard to tell apart now. It was little, that be for sure. As for that box it was haulin, it was a shoe-box for sure. Looked to be puttin the strain on that one for sure, but they was "workin" it at least. Good luck on this one now!
Which forien ones should be reported? Toyota Tundra manufactured in Indiana. Toyota Tacoma manufactured in California. Nissan Frontier manufactured in Tennessee. Isuzu Hombre made in the USA by GM. Which foreign ones are you referring to justtheone?
look at those vehicles. On the window sticker (for toyotas i know) it says the percentage of whereparts are manufactured. Toyota 90%+ are made in japan. Might be built in the USA but not with USA parts
GM vehicles are MADE IN MEXICO....just to spite the union....mostly Tahoes and Yukons...and from the postings that I've read...the Mexicans do a better job..LMAO!!
It aint hard too be tellin ya got ya a forien one now. Use your eyes! Them tundra ones be forien, it aint no secret now. It be just like them folks too be claimin it be of the US of A when it aint. So once again, if ya see some folks "workin" that forien one, post it up, and give a tell on what is was "haulin" now. Good luck on this one now!
That nicotine ailing your old mind for sure. Seems GM owners confusing Mexico with the U.S.A. Mexico is a foreign country, Indiana is a State in our Union. I realize your living in the past, when Chevy, Ford and Dodge were actually made in America by Americans. Dodge is no longer U.S. owned. The Germans own that one now. GM sent the bulk of their work (engines, trannies, suspension, etc)to Mexico, with electronics made in places like vietnam. Same with ford and dodge. Best keep them corporate blinders on, the truth be blindin' you quick now!
My silverado was built in the great state of indiana (home state).
Your tundra is also built here but if you look at the componenet breakdown 90% is foreign. I know alot of parts on the silverado are foreign but its nowhere near 90%
What is this "fix" you are referring to? According to you and Bama, there are no SHAKERUNDRAS!
In the grand scheme of things, it's good to know something works. Problem is, they still have cheap brakes, warping discs, out of round drums, steering wheel flutter when you step on the brakes, vibrating seats, chipping paint, hard starting, transmission clunks.....ie all the things that make it just another truck.
If Toyota could have made it as perfect as you guys would like us to think, I'd have to consider one. But the reality of its many imperfections, makes it abundantly clear I need not fret over small trucks again. My next one is going to be a Silverado heavy duty, with Allison 5 speed automatic transmission, and duramax diesel with 100,000 mile warranty. (You know you want one!)
First they be thinkin they got em a "full size" one, now they be thinkin it aint forien. Them folks just aint gettin it now. Them that works them trucks, be lookin for a "full size" US of A one. Them yuppies who be chasin that fad, be lookin for one with shine. Now that factory tricked them poor yuppies, but they still be blinded of this truth by that shine. Wake up now yuppies, that tundra aint US of A, they aint UAW built, and it aint "full size" now. Use your eyes on these truths. Good luck on this one now!
Comments
Ryan
Ryan
DOHHH!
- Tim
rant against is the nasty tendency you and many
others have to include personal put downs
(everyone can spell ideology by now!)."
"This drivel -- I mean now some of you (you know who you are!) are giving serious, point-by-point responses to sarcasm!?! If that doesn't scream out "YOU NEED A LIFE!!!"
then...."
Timothy - You seem to have a lot of energy about this issue, yet you continue to read and post to this topic. I think that it should be obvious by now that I was being sarcastic when I posted about "ideology".
Are you "giving serious, point-by-point responses to sarcasm!?!" Are you in need of a Life?
quality and reliability as a Toyota. Never have
and never will."
...and you say I'M wearing blinders?
"You have posted numerous times about your perfect truck - can you spell "hypocrite"?
...in fact, i can. and it's nice to know that we've finally gotten through to you. it's unfortunate that we have to go the extent of appearing to be hypocrites to do so. the whole point of declaring the silverado "perfect" because I'VE had no problems was to eliminate your contention that since YOU'VE not experienced it with your tundra, that it can't be possible (reference warped rotors). that was the only response you had to that challenge. we simply have been working diligently at showing you these flaws are not rumors or isolated occurrences.
"I have posted several different highly regarded sources (J.D. Powers and Consumer Reports are two) which back up my statements. The source for these ratings are the results of surveys filled out by owners of these trucks...These sources post failure rates. This is independent of how many vehicles are sold."
...i agree with "rates". however "initial quality" (jd powers) has very little to do with failure rates. how can you expect consumer reports to be able to reflect any semblance of accurate data when the first model year of tundra JUST CLOSED? is it fair to say that, because the '99 'rado posted bad numbers in consumer reports that you can blindly stumble into a toyota dealer and purchase a tundra? makes no sense at all. if you're going to rely on CR, why not wait until CR has had the chance to evaluate tundra for a year (as it did with the silverado)?
lastly, i'd still like to hear why it is you think tundras brakes are SO much better than chevy. granted 6 feet is 6 feet, but in your opinion, is that really "MUCH stronger"? and if so, why did toyota do away with rear drums on their SC Tundra?
bco
note: i hope you will notice i did not reply-in-kind to any of your personal attacks. i hope we can move past that BS now...
As far as minivans go, I can't see why something built on a car chassis and as tall as an SUV is not a rollover hazard.
Course you could opt to spend $40k on a fancied up Astro van with TV and video games.
Peter
You are just as opinionated as other people on this thread are. Toyotas are great trucks but GM trucks (as well as Ford and Dodge) are the trucks that do the work in America. These trucks are on the farm, construction sites, plowing roads, bringing your kids to school. They are tested like no Toyota in consumer hands. I can tell you that the engine and transmission are as good as or better than Toyotas. GM automatic transmissions are in everything from BMWs, to Rolls Royces, to Hummers. The GM small black V-8 is legendary. Toyota wanted to use it in the Tundra but GM would not sell it to them. I think you are miss leading your self to think that Toyota is the best. I would much rather have a GM truck under very severe conditions after the warranty expires. Try fixing that Tundra after accidentally driving through a situation that caused water damage, it will cost you more than a new truck. I would bet the Lexus engine alone cost 3 times more to replace. I have a flawless 2000 Chevy Silverado. I also have a not so flawless 1999 Chevy Blazer. I do agree that Toyota has higher initial quality but the price is not the same.
Toyotas cost more with the same options. Toyotas cost more to fix. Toyotas cost more to maintain. Toyota is the ONLY major manufacture NOT to have 100,000-mile tune-ups. If someone buys a truck for the short haul a Toyota maybe a better deal. Keep that truck for ten years and put it to work and you have a completely different story. End of story.
Ryanbab: Late 80's. It has to be cheap enough to offset any repairs and the poor gas mileage i'll get. Do they come with a third row of seats?
If you go the minivan route, I would stick to the Sienna or Odyssey. I don't think they can be beat for reliability and safety.
possible 2 out of 3 cars wil be GM eh?..
maybe there is hope for you after all?.....nahhh
LOL
- Tim
if the family route ever came my way...I'd get a burb...slap a lid on the ado...or something ....mini-van would have to come with the surgery....that's for sure...
(Sorry Steve!)
- Tim
An ex/crew cab would hold a family...but there is no place for all the stuff!...(unless a lid is on...even then....too hard to get stuff in front.)
so unless you wanna shell out the bucks for a burb...a mini van is it man.....the new version of the good old station wagon..
sometimes I think it's dumb to pay $1000 a month for 2 cars.....especially when one is $600...but hey...can't take it all with ya!
...(although I'm gona try and take some!)
- Tim
'00 Denali $600
Gas $400
Insurance $160
Man, looks like closer to $1750 to me....
wouldn't trade it for a truckload of Toyota's, nissans or dodges, now there's a clunker!!lol!!
They should spend some of that fancy ad money on improved transmissions.
Rwell i know in this guys burb at work he had an um 87 or 88 it had the 3rd row seating. It had the upscale "silverado" trim. Dont get a minivan there are options better than that. Just look around dont rush into anything
Ryan
....no kids..make good money....why not?
both with gas/insurance probably are that amount too..
who cares......live it when yer young...not old...
- Tim
Soon you will have the minivan though TIM face it. hehe
Ryan
- Tim
Ryan
- Tim
Dean
It was a 9x7 garage door (3 boxes not much weight). I was going to the mall the other day and it pulled out of home depot.
Ryan
Ryan
I was responding to obyone who says everything GM makes is from mexico.
26k no problems on my Chevy, and I'll take on toyotas da runt anytime..
makes is from mexico."
Obyone never said any such thing. You are sounding like BCO - make things up as you go.
GM owners confusing Mexico with the U.S.A. Mexico
is a foreign country, Indiana is a State in our
Union. I realize your living in the past, when
Chevy, Ford and Dodge were actually made in
America by Americans. Dodge is no longer U.S.
owned. The Germans own that one now. GM sent the
bulk of their work (engines, trannies, suspension,
etc)to Mexico, with electronics made in places like
vietnam. Same with ford and dodge. Best keep them
corporate blinders on, the truth be blindin' you
quick now!
Your tundra is also built here but if you look at the componenet breakdown 90% is foreign. I know alot of parts on the silverado are foreign but its nowhere near 90%
Ryan
Dean
In the grand scheme of things, it's good to know something works. Problem is, they still have cheap brakes, warping discs, out of round drums, steering wheel flutter when you step on the brakes, vibrating seats, chipping paint, hard starting, transmission clunks.....ie all the things that make it just another truck.
If Toyota could have made it as perfect as you guys would like us to think, I'd have to consider one. But the reality of its many imperfections, makes it abundantly clear I need not fret over small trucks again. My next one is going to be a Silverado heavy duty, with Allison 5 speed automatic transmission, and duramax diesel with 100,000 mile warranty. (You know you want one!)