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Tundra vs the Big 3 Continued IV

meredithmeredith Posts: 575
edited March 2014 in Toyota
This topic is a continuation of Topic 2190....

Tundra vs the Big 3 Continued III. Please
continue these discussions here. Thanks!

Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host


  • bcobco Posts: 756
    first post. 'bout time after 2 years!!!

  • obyoneobyone Posts: 7,841
    Silverado topic.....LOL

  • I have always been a Toyota Fan when it came to their Tocama's and their sports car and of course, their known reliability. Well, I saw a Tundra Ext. Cab V8 today up close, it looks nice but compared to the other Big three, it was definitely smaller inside and out. The rear seat could barely accommodate a person 6' foot. The physical size was slightly smaller also. I would only buy the Toyota for the Lexus derived DOHC 4.7L V8, it's supposed to be a great engine, the styling and the space inside is definitely a downfall. The Chevy offers a lot more room inside and both Ford and Chevy are also known for their outstanding engine reliability. One further point, stay away from Dodge, it's the only truck on the market that would scare me to own one, they seem to be a problem waiting to happen.
  • ovalleyovalley Posts: 135
    Don't be to sure on a Chrysler Minivan getting better gas mileage than a truck. My wife has a Chy T&C with 3.8L and she's lucky if she gets even the same mileage I do with my ext cab 5.3L 2wd. Her van started out at 15.5 mpg and after about 4000 miles is getting about 17.5 mpg. I get 18.5 to 19.0 mpg in the truck.
  • swobigswobig Posts: 634
    the minivan I'm getting has the 3.8L engine. 15 is all I'm able to get with my truck - that's a mix of city/highway. I'm hoping for 22 with the mini - rated 17/24. If I could get 18.5-19 like you get I'd keep the truck, but it's not going to happen...
  • I've got a Dodge GC with the 3.8L engine and routinely get 22-24 mpg on a trip. More like
    16-17 in town. Just don't believe the computer readouts (they're typically better than reality) and compute the mileage the old fashioned way.
  • swobigswobig Posts: 634
    that's what I was hoping for. Everybody keeps telling me not to get one, but I've had good luck with Dodge's. Have a 97 Intrepid with the 3.5L V-6 that is perfect. Gets 29 on the highway and is strong. Had a couple other Dodges that were real good also, so hopefully this one will follow suit. I honestly can't find a better deal and I've negotiated at 7 different dealers and looked at 4 others...
  • z71billz71bill Posts: 1,986
    This comes from a Dodge owner I work with - they are his words not mine. "The best thing about Dodge is they will never be stolen". He had a Honda Accord, a chevy PU, and a Toyota all ripped off in a three year period. He has been driving Dodge cars and trucks for the last 5 years without loosing one yet. He thinks either they are to ugly to steal or the thief would be worried that the car would break down while he was stealing it.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 7,841
    You have a wise friend...if I was worried or lived in a high crime area, I'd buy a Dodge also.
  • swobigswobig Posts: 634
    wonder why Accords are stolen so often?? There nice, but I'd set my sights on something even better...
  • ryanbabryanbab Posts: 7,240
    They are stolen for parts. My old S-10 was almost stolen 3 times. The last time was just for the cap.

  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157 like putting slicks on a Yugo....

    but you are right...I see the same thing here...they take cheap cars and add exausts, fins and who knows what else....I just giggle my [non-permissible content removed] off...gimme the old Chevelle and I'll show ya what real power is kids....

    - Tim
  • davids1davids1 Posts: 411
    Where they took a stock Civic, added some doodads, and it blew away a STOCK mustang GT in the quarter. It's up to you whether or not you want to believe it. I don't believe everything I read, even if I want to.
  • ryanbabryanbab Posts: 7,240
    ANything is possible. Ligenfelter took a 00 silverado 2500 added some corvette parts (using that term loosely i dont know exxactly what) and a supercharger (40K in mods) and it did 0-60 in 4.68 seconds. Would blow alot of stuff away

    Mustangs are slow anyways ask tim he has one he would know. haha

  • obyoneobyone Posts: 7,841
    make that a twin turbo. 12 sec 1/4 mile.

  • swobigswobig Posts: 634
    I just picked up the Van, sorry no more truck. It was nice, but...oh well. Hot rod Civic just doesn't appeal to me. It's just a little tin can on wheels. Geeze, if you hit something it would probably break in half.

    I have a few parts that I kept off my Silverado. Hypertech programmer, Granadelli (sp?) MAF sensor, and Airaid filter system. If anybody is interested please e-mail me at [email protected]
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 7,841
    for Denali...ran into a Chemical Engineer who works for the Navy looking for oil for his son's Honda. He told me that his son (17) just blew the motor racing and cost him $2500 to replace. Not to mention the other doodads on the car. Had suspension, exhaust, intake redone. Put over $10,000 in a car that's worth maybe $2000. Hmmm...I guess if you've got the money.....
  • ryanbabryanbab Posts: 7,240
    i get a nice discount at kmart 10%

    man my discounts really add up

  • I think you'll enjoy your van. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of mini-vans (or Chrysler
    products), I have to say that we have experienced minimal mechanical problems with the two Dodge's we have owned. In addition, it's hard to beat the convenience of being able to transport seven people, or remove some seats and haul most anything you want. And, at 22-24 mpg.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    isn't my thing either...My dad has had very good records with his past 4 Caravans/Town Country's

    They are the originator of them...

    Good luck

    - Tim
  • mrurlmrurl Posts: 116
    As I understand it, this is a new NHRA class. Reasonably inexpensive to get into, and the kids are eating it up.

  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    about Honda and NHRA that just don't go togetehr in my books....ya know?

    Kinda like Polo and 40 ouncers....or yuppy's and hunting.....

    - Tim
  • honda and nhra?? OK theres a 'n', 'h', and 'a' in both but beyond that???

    DJ's from the rock station were at the track racing this weekend and OK they had mustangs but niether had posi (one wonders why not, the one wheel peel was a joke) and if that wasnt bad enough kias were up next!! We went back to the pits laughing at how many minutes it would take for the kias to run.
  • In the 1/4 mile
  • swobigswobig Posts: 634
    I just can't see driving something like that every day, I'll stick with the Intrepid. The only thing that scares me is the tranny. I've heard a lot of horror stories about them. Just had the Intrepid tranny serviced at 60K miles, and it was just fine. Thinking of doing the van at 20K, just to be safe, and while it's under warranty. But overall it's a nice van. We looked at Chevy, Mazada, and others and Dodge has many features the others don't. We liked the Honda, but it's hard to get a deal on one. Never really considered the Toyota - hehehe. As you can guess I'm not a Toyota fan (why I follow this topic so much)...:-)
  • ratboy3ratboy3 Posts: 324
    hehe why oh why swobig.. haha
  • I've been away for awhile,busy working but I did buy a new computer,now I've got a new screenname and I'm ready to rumble.
  • The Caravan is the wife's as well. It's
    a 1997 GC LE with the 3.8L and all options.
    It's got nearly 90k and the only problems have been water pump (at 80k), front brakes/rotors
    (we live in mountains), and the passenger electric door locks (twice). Drive train has been outstanding (knock on wood).
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 7,841
    drivers is when I change lanes not seeing them. don't really hear that excsue for a horn either...LOL!!! Three months ago, I seen a red Acura GSR flying past me at over 100 mph followed by two police cycles giving chase. Well, a couple of miles down the road, had to get off the freeway as it was shutdown. The acura was a hunk of metal after bouncing off the median and rolling. Don't think the driver made it...good to go fast...just learn how to drive it first.
  • Check this one out. RealMedia video player needed for playback. Get it at if you haven't already got it:

    1/4 Mile shootout: Ferrari 360 Modena vs. Honda CIVIC

    Look at THAT holeshot.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    ..I know the kind of cars you are talking about..I see them here as well....

    ..But all BS aside...I know some of them are quick....but the sound of them..and what they look like.....just makes me laugh too hard...(almost as much as the drivers who think it's cool).....(you'd get stoned and shot in my crowd with one of them)

    maybe we come from different generations?....a 396/454 (do you know what those are??)...with the right cam and exhaust says wayyy more than any 2.2 can ever imagine...

    kinda like GRRRRRRRR...and Buzzzzzzzzz

    - Tim
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    that goes fast is about 26 engines...

    Point made

    - Tim
  • ryanbabryanbab Posts: 7,240
    Origional engine in the old 79 chevy. Only thing that has been a major was the trans was rebuilt. Not bad for a 21 yr old truck. Damn thats as old as i am

  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    ..that's nothing.....little camper!


    - Tim
  • ryanbabryanbab Posts: 7,240
    Your what 65??? Still thinking about that carmine color? Itll suit ya well haha

  • Street racing is for punks. It would be more interesting to see how successful a blown CRX would be against a Fairlane, Nova or panel truck with slicks.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    ...CRX or Chevelle

    ...these guys kill me

    - Tim
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    listen to those cars!.....they sound like toys....another reason I never liked import sports cars..

    when it comes to manuals...(that's a stick in case you don't know)...anything can get the wrong guy shifting...and he can lose big time...

    a very long time my first job...2 guys had old Nova's..(that's an American car) was a 350 4bbl...and other was a 250 1BBL...both manuals....they decided to race one day....the 250 won due to he knew how to shift better...

    - Tim
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    japanese imports sound like crap, yes. but not german sports cars. there is no sweeter sound in the world than the sound of a boxster S revving up!
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    than Italian and Japanese...but I'll still take American...

    - Tim
  • mrurlmrurl Posts: 116
    I liked your Nova story. Did you hear that when GM tried to sell them in Mexico, nobody would buy them? Turns out "no va" in Spanish means "no go." Oops!


    PS - We'd better get back to trucks or Meridith will yell at us.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    ..I've never heard that before....huh...

    Learn something new all the time...

    ..(let's all pause for F150 to catch up..)

    - Tim
  • Hmnnnn... is right.

    Looks like I touched a nerve, although it was not my intent. I was just educating you away from your earlier comment that Honda and NHRA don't go together. In fact, Honda is an established leader in Indy car racing, as well as Superbikes. I'm sure you already knew that.

    If you're just trying to stick up for classic musclecars, then I can certainly understand that: I've made no secret of the fact that I still own a beautifully restored 1968 Chevelle SS 396/325hp convertible that's worth more dollars than my 2000 Tundra. Yes, "old-timer", I know what kind of respect that classic iron gets from old beaverbeards with distended pot-bellies hanging out from under their T-shirts at the Dairy Queen one Saturday night per month. I used to get it myself all the time driving my red SS around my old hometown of Riverside, CA -- home to the now-extinct Riverside International Raceway. I grew up in Southern California's musclecar scene, 'pops'. I'm no stranger to any of hat you decided to sidetrack this discussion with.

    You're talking about car shows, and I'm strictly talking about drag-racing.

    Point being: Even a factory restored late-60s ponycar like a Firebird, Camaro, or Mustang cannot hold it's own against it's year 2000 contemporary. If you could restore a 1969 SS396 Camaro to factory specs, it's not going to beat a new 2000 Camaro SS at the drags or on the road-course. It won't beat it in braking or on the skidpad, either.

    The only place it will beat it is in the hearts of post-middle age men afflicted with male pattern-baldness who dream of vintage iron that they couldn't afford as teenagers back in the mid-60s. Things generally only get better with time, Tim.

    I'll ignore your other comments about my patriotism as an American, because I don't care to try to understand where your hostility comes from.

    I'm simply talking about cars and sticking to that, and you seem to want to shift this conversation over to getting all misty-eyed about John Wayne getting shot in the back by a paid Japanese-American actor on the back lot of Republic Pictures studios in Culver City, CA in the 1949 film 'Sands of Iwo Jima'.

    Leave your Jingoism in the VCR, Tim, and get some rest.
  • Oh, just like Einstein has proven that time is relative, so he proves a *waste* of time is equally relative: It's all based upon the perceptions of the individual and where he's standing at the moment.

    I've even seen on other Edmunds threads outside this one that an individual is 'anti-American' if they're not firmly behind the conspiracy theory that Firestone tires were sabotaged by agents of the New World Order in order to destroy the reputation of the Ford Motor Company and destabilize the American fascination with Sport-Utility vehicles.

    Those darn commies at work again! Or is it the Bilderburgers, Elders of Zion, bitter ex-Nazis from Paraguay, Trilateraliasts, or other forces of darkness who act as our global puppetmasters?

    You see, a 12-second 2.2 litre Honda is the assault vehicle in which the United Nations forces staffed by foreign troops will come in to confiscate our firearms and force our pre-pubescent sons into Boy Scout Troops led by skirt-wearing homosexual child-molesting scout-masters!

    It's all very simple, and out in the open, as long as you'd just open your damn eyes and take a look around and realize what's happening to our country and Constitution!

    So stop wasting time here and get to building your underground bunker protected by remote-controlled flamethrowing turrets.

    (This was the well-written irrational response, by the way)
  • I had no idea things were getting that out of hand. I'm going to check on getting my F-150 armor plated right after I get the machine gun mount welded into the bed. Thanks again for the heads up.... ;-)
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 7,841
    as they don't try to stop Jerry Springer and Star Trek reruns....
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Posts: 4,157
    ...hold was more to be informative than hostile...I may seem that way..but that's how I always talk....that't the problem with all don't get to hear voice inflection and if it's something you don't want to assume it's hostile...

    while i didn't read all the above posts..i see where you are going/coming from....although the description of "my kind" is not all that accurate...although I understand what you mean...

    having the chevelle it sounds like perhaps you can accept both ways...I can't. Of course it takes less to get more from a 2.2 VS an's all about forcing air/gas down the intake and walahh!...more power...aka less space to force air/gas...less money...

    a 2.2 will take less than a 350...which takes less than a 396...less than a 427...etc etc etc..

    but to accept it will be dead in 10K doesn't make sense to me......the sound of the right cam/exhaust...or better yet open headers...(Blap Blap Blap Blap)...just does a lot more for me than BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ (honda souped up).

    I understand the cost and what you get for the buck.....if a 454 has 4 times the space than a 2.2...and it takes 4 times more's all relative.....

    watching a car being restored step by step...and all the engine parts come together ..for me..means so much more than a stock go cart engine that has a super induction system...but may or may not got faster...

    I'm sure you could get one to go farr faster than a Chevelle for $2500 in parts for each car..

    ...but as I said...for me and millions of others..there is no comparison..

    last month the largest car show/cruise took place in the world right here....1.2 Million people watched thousands and thousands of cars...very few as you mentioned...(but yeah...some)....and they never got the attention as the others..(you style) did...

    any one of the cars from the past can be made to beat any one of the...whatever you wann call them may be 5 times more...but it's all relative..

    we both have opinions...and neither of us is wrong...but where I live...there are more of "me" than "you"


    - Tim
  • Well, I saw references to [paraphrasing] 'Go back to Japan to live with your buddies [...] people like you are what's wrong with America', so I don't see where you can now reply with [paraphrasing again] 'Sorry, that's the way I talk, and I don't come off as well in print as I do in person'.

    I think it was pretty clear what you wrote, but let's get past this and back on track:

    The truth is this: Musclecars are fading away because -- simply put -- they're not being made any longer, and in fact haven't been for decades. Their numbers dwindle by the years. Soon, the only musclecars left will be museum pieces, and the only V-8 powered domestic iron out there at a cheap price will be the mid-70s Camaro/Firebirds that every country hick has on blocks out in the front yard. By 2015, even that supply will have started to dry up. One day too will the Chevy small-block.

    Admit it: If you heard a story about a guy finding a 4,000-mile 1970 HemiCuda in an old lady's garage (perhaps the old BS story about her Army lieutenant son buying it after college right before he went MIA in Vietnam in 1971, for instance) and this guy bought it and went straight out and tubbed the rear wheel wells, shortened the real axles, gutted and caged the interior, repainted it in garish colors, put Recaro seats inside, and dolled up the engine compartment with chrome goodies and threw out all the original Mopar guts, you'd want to find this guy and give him a royal beatdown, right? SACRILEDGE!

    If *I* came across a car like that, I'd search the old lady's garage for every last original factory part I could find right down to the dealer's garbage bags hanging from the cigarette lighter knob. I'd restore that baby until the fooking hoseclamps were in the correct factory 'o-clock' position and put the build sheet from behind the rear seat in a safe-deposit box at the bank. I'd search the Earth for correct reproduction red-striped tires and maybe even bottle the factory air from the tires somehow.

    Now, a 1992 Honda CIVIC -- yeah, who cares about that piece of crap? Sure, cage out that thing and gut the interior. Build up a hyperactive twin-turbo 2.2 litre buzz-motor on go-go juice and raise hell. No-one's ever gonna collect those cars and mind that the numbers from the block and coach don't match. Also, there are more 2.2 litre blocks laying around than there are small-block Chevys! You don't get it: TREAT them like disposable lighters.

    We're talking two different things again: You're talking car shows, I'm talking about bracket racing.

    You're talking classic musclecars that ought NOT be out on the strip (unless it's an uncollectible mid-70s smogger Nova or perhaps a V-8 Maverick), and I'm talking what's cheap and plentiful that runs mid-12s for only $4500 investment.

    It's not anti-American -- just look at it from an capitalist engineer's point of view: Cheapest means most plentiful. Plentiful means expendable. A 1970 SS454 LS-6 Chevelle is NEITHER of those, and deserves to be a trailer queen that may make an occasional 1/4 mile dash only if the cameras for 'My Antique Auto' from ESPN's 'SpeedWeek' are rolling. That's all I'm saying.

    ... And by the way, when I was 22, my pal Glenn had a dyno'd 550-HP small block 1978 Camaro that lasted only about 6,000 miles. The block went south *RAPIDLY* and the unibody frame of car was twisted so badly that the damn windshield was popping out and only three wheels out of four would touch the ground at the same time. Oh, that car would humiliate just about everything in town until it completely shook and twisted apart. Good thing too, because that car would have killed him eventually.

    Those domestic mills don't last any longer than an import mill in a high-11 second car. Neither does the car. THAT is what super street racing is all about.

    Understand now?
  • swobigswobig Posts: 634
    Chevette's, Yugo's, you name it. And I suppose you could get any of them to outrun a Corvette, but it's just a tin can on wheels. The speed in those little Honda's would be fun, but it just seems more impressive to me the speed you get out of a Corvette, Camaro, Mustang. It's just a bigger, more substansial car that I could see myself driving. I honestly would not want a Civic (or other smaller model). Camaro, Mustang are about as small as I could see myself in. Even those are small. The "bigger" Detroit cars hold much more appeal in that respect. Show me a fast Accord or Avalon and I may be interested...
  • ... that you can do anything WITH anything.

    What's agreeable with doing it with a Japanese pocket rocket is that you're doing it with a 2100-pound CIVIC rather than a 5200-pound 1970 Dodge Charger. Keep the power to weight ratio the same, and you're gonna find that the lighter car is actually streetable:

    My pal Glenn's Camaro didn't even idle below 2400 rpm, and had a 3500-rpm stall converter (which I thought was actually kinda low). There was no way to creep off the line in normal street driving conditions in that car: It was all or nothing ALL the time. He was truly driving NASCAR on the street. TOTALLY undrivable in the rain, too. One blurp of the gas pedal, and he'd just spin circles like a merry-go-round. That car was very hard on parts, as we replaced several 12-bolt rear end housings, axles, gears, and pinions. Unbelievably, the TH-350 tranny lasted the lifetime of the car, which was about 10 months. That car was essentially unstreetable.

    However, in a twin-turbo Honda on nitrous oxide with a compressed air bottle, that stuff only turns on when you open up the solenoid by a remote manually-set automatic switch. Most of the time, you can cruise around town getting 18-22 mpg out of a slightly-hopped up 2.2 litre turbo as if it were a slightly-hotter 4-banger engine. When you wanna go balls out, you stage up the compressed air bottle, and purge your nitrous lines. Lots of guys even override the cars EFI computer with a laptop connected via serial port.

    When the light goes green, the compressed air bottle just blasts a hurricane of cold oxygen down into the intake manifold, mixing with the nitrous, and the turbos kick in at 3500 rpm. Instantly, the engine is revving 6500 rpm and climbing towards 10,000. Holeshot city, and no fishtailing thanks to front wheel drive.

    In a modern age, you can actually drive a 22mpg flat 12-second car to work and back, as long as you realize that the power requires a few moments preparation and a shutdown and restart to reboot the EFI computer with new settings.

    This stuff isn't completely limited to imports: There are 6-cylinder Mustangs on the street set up this way that will *easily* run 11s and 12s. That Buick Grand National started this scene, and just about any T-Type can be made to run comparably with a prepped Buick V-6.

    The thing I'm trying to establish is that not only *don't* you need a stroked and bored Lingenfelter big-block Chevy with 624 cubic inches (at 9:1 compression for pump gas) to run like this, but you're actually better off staying off that path.
This discussion has been closed.