Tundra vs the Big 3 Continued IV

ryanbab

Oh thanks for clarifying that kyle. He made it seem like he had 5 in the front seat which is possibly possible with a bench seat but very illegal. Ok i got it 2 in front 3 in ext cab (oh wait access cab) and 2 in the bed. Ok this is possible. Sorry RWELL. My fault havent been getting much sleep as of late.

Ryan

mrurl

No, I don't have a website, but I know enough about horse trailers to know what kind weigh 8000 lbs. empty, and only the design I described.

I'm sure the salesman didn't know much about horse trailers, and I'm sure the people didn't bring one with them to the dealership. I am also confident that a regular light duty horse trailer (5000 - 6000 lbs. empty) with a couple of horses in it would not have been a problem.

I looked at a large light duty trailer a couple of months ago. (Idle curiosity - I don't have a horse anymore.) 3 horses max plus a tack room and a small A/Ced dressing room. Literature said is was 5800 lbs. empty and the salesman said he recommended any of the Big three 1-ton duallies with a deisel or big V-8 gas engine for pulling loaded.

Why don't you run a search on horse trailers and see if you can find a picture of a trailer with an empty weight of >8000 lbs.

My point is that these people knew the configuration of the trailers they were building. The salesman did not. They should have known better.

But then, what can you say about juries? Look at OJ.

Peter

swobig

I'm not going to waste my time on reading the article. Read posts 276 & 294 by mrurl. Do you think the Tundra with the same trailer would have survived? You guys are real winners. My point again is that a Dodge one ton will out tow a Tundra - a Dodge one ton can tow 8000# if done properly. Maybe a Toy can tow 7200#, but it will not out tow a one ton. USE YOUR HEAD!

rwellbaum2

"I'm not going to waste my time on reading the
article. Read posts 276 & 294 by mrurl."

If you want to bury your head in the sand, then don't read the article. I'm sure your more interested in some armchair lawer's theories and conjectures.

rwellbaum2

You still don't get it! The Dodge company openly admitted that their truck could not handle the weight. They have since then retracted the tow ratings from their literature. If the owners of the truck had improperly and abusively used the truck, why would Dodge representatives and engineers admit, under oath, that the truck was incapable of hauling the stated weight? With logic like yours, you probably think the people suing the firestone and ford companies are at fault for the exloding tires!

swobig

you and me. I don't need to read a article to know any one ton will out tow any Toyota. You apparantly need to read articles spewed out any source to justify your purchase. Again I'll ask - do you think a Toyota would stand up to the same conditions as mrurl has shown?? NO! Brick wall...

swobig

"more buck, less truck" eh rob? I'm starting to think you and bama are one and the same. Seems as though yours and his posts are always pretty close (time wise). Something up here rob? I'm sure you have good explination though. Rob, like I have said time and time again - I don't think the Tundra is a bad truck, but your extremly quick to jump all over somebody elses ride. You know I kinda miss ole trucksrme - he was kinda hard headed just like you - just on a different side...hehehe...

swobig

duck everyone's questions...

rwellbaum2

You still choose to ignore facts and disregard the truth about the Dodge truck lawsuit.
Are you one of those people that believe Emelia Earhardt was abducted by aliens and that the Holocaust was a big plublicity stunt to make poor Adolph look bad?

rwellbaum2

That would be "publicity"

swobig

but a one ton can tow 8000#. What about answering my questions Rob? Typical - duck everybody's questions and fire back. Why do I even bother with you? Yeah, lets change the subject "Emelia Earhardt" so you don't have to respond. When your ready to answer a question look me up - until then p*ss off...

swobig

on the 2001 Tundra options. Did they leave it off for 2001 also? If they did, it's a mistake...

mrurl

Well, the reporter who wrote the article said that. The one sentence was probably the distillation of hours of testimony, and the reporter may have been getting *that* second hand. What is true is that a one ton truck with a normal bed is inadequate to tow *that kind* of 8000 lb trailer.

Trailer designed to have the pin about 6" higher than the top of the tire. To clear the bed rails the pin is now 18-24" above the tires on a shimmed hitch. A truck with a maximum pin weight of 2500 lbs towing a trailer with 3500 lbs on the pin. And that on an improperly installed hitch.

We'll never know what the Dodge engineers "admitted" without buying a copy of the trial transcript. You would fit right in on that jury, however. "The technical details are too complicated to follow. The salesman said that the truck would tow an 8000# trailer and it couldn't tow this one. Good enough for me."

Peter

timothyadavis

I believe you about the trailers. However, I also believe that these people asked specifically if the truck would do the job and that they were told it would. I don't think it likely (although stranger things have happened ala OJ) that the Dodge (presumably) high priced lawyers would have missed the "improper equipment for the job" argument if the customer really had made that mistake.

But that also begs the question (which we also won't know without "buying?" the transcript of the trial) as to why in the world you think these people would have knowingly ruined there own business. Were they smart enough to sucker Dodge into promising more so that they could suffer through losing their business, entering into a probable-loss in a lawsuit and now endure who knows how many years of appeals before they see perhaps a few tens of thousands of dollars?

We can speculate all day. Still I wonder why so many here are so concerned with making this a plus or minus compared to Toyota instead of just admitting that Dodge screwed up this sale and its aftermath (as Dodge themselves has).

Ford, I think, made some very bad decisions in their handling of several problems in the last few years. Admitting that doesn't make the Tundra the better choice for me nor does it diminish my appreciation of, happiness with nor satisfaction in my F-150. Why does this Dodge case bother some of you so much?

rassom1

It appears that whatever the reason was for the Dodge not towing the trailer, it seems that some people in general have lost ther common sense.
I have seen 1 ton Dodges towing fifth wheel trailers, that are properly equip with no problems whatsoever.
This case make no sense except maybe these people were out to reclaim there losses no matter what.
Maybe the salesperson who sold this truck to those people made claims that were not true and Dodge had to admit they were false claims.
Just my .02

timothyadavis

So do you know what the towing limits are on the various Dodge pickups? The Dodge web site doesn't seem to include that information anymore. Or are we only allowed to buy a truck for towing if we possess the "common sense" to figure that out for ourselves.

Look, I don't give a hoot for which of these trucks tow the most or the best. What I do care about is which maker stands behind their product and how. This apparent failure of Dodge to do so does not mean no one should buy their product. But it is something to take into account as you assess the claims they make for their products. Surely you don't think that everything is "operator error?!?"

rwellbaum2

I think you've made the most intelligent post about this, so far. Why some think they have to defend the Daimler Chysler corporation like a close relative, is beyond me.

rwellbaum2

You continue to create your own stories and scenarios that would supposedly let Dodge off the hook while laying blame on the consumer. The simple fact is that they messed up and now they have to correct their mistake. Towing information has been deleted from their specs. This is telling proof that they have been forced to reevaluate their truck's performance.

rassom1

Here is link to Dodge towing specs.
Enough said.
http://us.media.daimlerchrysler.com/index_e.htm

lariat1

If I remember right the GVWR on my 98 Ram is 18,000 lbs the truck dry weighs 6600lbs that would give me about 11,400 lbs to add on to the truck not including people and other cargo.Now common sense tells me that I cannot do to the dodge dealer and buy a truck off the lot and tow 11,000lbs it tells you in the OWNERS MANUAL that you need special equipment to tow anything over 5,000lbs like trailer brakes, weight distributing hitch or a kingpin for heavy trailers.
I am not defending DC but it seems that somewhere the consumer is still responsible for a little bit.The main thing DID THEY READ THE OWNERS MANUAL.If they did they would have known that they needed special equipment to tow that kind of weight.
In this case it seems that the dealer is at fault more than anything for deceptive selling practices.
This case really upsets me because it shows that 90% of the people today have no common sense. for example a Tundra has a tow rating of 7000# and I am sure someone has hooked up a 7000# trailer to a stock Tundra and it towed it fine.But I am willing to bet they never thought to check the rating on the class 3 hitch on the truck.The max weight for the hitch is 5000# with a 500# tongue weight.

obyone

is like poker. Drawing the cards will detemine whether you have it or not.

Anyone remember the link to the article where you had to pay $2.50 to receive it? I think I can scrape up $2.50 out of my daily lunch allowance to purchase this item. Should make for good reading on my lunchless lunchbreak. TIA.

jcmdie

This is a time in history that no one is willing to take resposibility for their own actions. The big guy is always to blame for mishaps. McDonalds gets sued for not warning an old lady that the coffee is hot. A bicycle manufacture gets sued for not warning the consumer that bicycle are not meant to be ridden at night and doing so without lights are dangerous. A local paper recently had a letter to the editor that explained that after her german shepard got injured after being struck by a bicyclist that it was chasing and that the vet explained that german shepards are prone to hip injuries. She claimed that the breeder is responsible for not warning her of potential hip problems. When do we begin taking responsibility for our own actions?

I suspect that the dealer misunderstood the requirements or was plain ignorant of the towing needs of this couple. I'm sure that we have all met some pretty ignorant salespeople. I believe that dodge is likely re-writing thier towing specs to clarify specificly what is allowed and what is not. I suspect that ford and gm will follow shortly. Some one else is bound to smell some easy money.

swobig

and sold them the wrong product for the job, but 80 million?? That's just absurd. They should have bought the truck back, lawyers fees, loss on business, but I highly doubt 80 million - probably not even 1 million. Yeah, they screwed up, but lets be realistic here. And there should be some common sense by the owners. I really don't care either way, but how many 80 million dollar lawsuits can Ford, DC, Toyota, or anybody handle?? Is it DC fault or the selling dealer?? And why so much?? With so many sue happy people before you know it all these companies will be going out of business or raising their prices to cover these silly lawsuits...

bamatundra

The Tundra hitch is a class 4 hitch.

bamatundra

Hey "prof" (LOL) - Changing your identity because someone is stalking your email is not an "Ideological reason".

An example of an ideological reason is refusing a hamburger because you are a vegetarian.

I don't care if you don't want to tell what your "ideological reason" is. (if you even know what ideological means).

What did you accomplish? The stalker still has your old email address. You should have just not published your new one. No need to change your identity(other than "ideological reasons".

If you wanted to change identities - why not "werking1"?

Now here comes the part where the chevy pack - Obyone, Redsilverado, Mgdvhman, and Ryanbab come to BCO's rescue. It is only natural for a pack to try to defend their "runt"

Redsilverado - "Shoot fire! My truck is bigger than yours. Yeehaw!"

MGDvhman - "ditto. Get me another beer"

Obyone - "I'm defending BCO because I want to be one of the pack"

Ryanbabs - "I don't understand"

obyone

I believe I had posted in the Tundra guys favor when f150rules was bashing the Tundra...but that was awhile ago so I didn't expect you to remember....lastly, bco can handle his own...

obyone

besides cutting and pasting....you're into fortune telling....ROTFLMFAO!!!

obyone

anybody remember where or in what topic or who posted it? Come on, I'm putting up my $2.50 at least tell me what topic number.

ryanbab

what? i dont get it.

Hey im not the clueless one buddy. You are. He did it for another reason too but you wouldnt understand. Why try to explain things to someone who thinks they know it all

Ryan

rwellbaum2

Speaking of vegetarians....If God didn't want us to eat cows, then why'd he make them out of meat?

modvptnl

2 out of 4.....not bad. The nights not over yet.

mgdvhman

..at least I got the right image out to yas!

....and I have wayy more respect for a Military man like Kyle than any hang gliding import lover...

- Tim

modvptnl

There's three!!!

All that's left is Tim's red parrot.

obyone

moderator. Call Vince McMahon from the WWF. I hear tell he is looking for a moderator that can double as a wrassler. Should be good for a few laughs...

modvptnl

You gotta admit that Bama played the 4 mouseARADOteers like a fiddle. LOL!! All but one responded within a few hours as he thought would happen. Too predictable!!!

I like Ryans response the best. Paraphrased; "Leave him alone you big bully, he had his reasons. Now leave me alone while I put more stickers on my truck."

Sorry Ryan, I couldn't resist.


Bring on Goldburg!!!

obyone

I think my average is better than bama's...I'm 1 for 1....LOL!!!

BTW, Bama and Rwell is one and the same.... just to let you know....remember I was the first with f150rules....

How's the dodge doing?

timothyadavis

Help me out. Your posted link is to a site using frames, so you can't get me to the page you were looking at. (I don't mean to drag this out, but I really am curious about what Dodge is saying today.) The only thing I could find there on towing was the sentence "Properly equipped Ram diesels can tow up to 14,300 pounds."

Now clicking on the "Fact Sheets" choice took me to a page with nothing really on it at all except a link to "Worldwide Facilities." So, I'm still lost. How did you get to there posted towing specs, rassom1?

bco

man, i wish i had all the answers like you do. tell me now, oh wise one. is your real name "bamatundra"? no? it's not "John Bamatundra"? hmmm. well then, tell me this, how come you don't have your real name listed in your profile? or...why don't you sign off with your real name? basically the same reason why i changed mine. NOT because you're afraid some jack___ would send you an email. because if you're like me, you're listed in the phone book. which means that anyone out there can look up your name and get your home address and phone number. something i never thought in a million years would matter. until i got a message on my answering machine one evening. ok? can you let go of the flippin name change now? i mean, was it YOU? did YOU call me and leave the message? is that what you're trying to draw out of me? this ain't hamburgers at a vegetarian joint bama...it's someone calling and leaving unpleasantries on your answering machine for either you or your wife to listen to. so how about not posting your real name online so folks can't harass you? is that idealogical enough for you? got it now? so...yes...changing my screen name to bco does prevent people from learning more about me, as long as folks like you would stop referring to me by my last name. or is that too much to ask?

i've said it before, i'll say it again...let it freakin' go...

bco

t37l1011

What? You mean there are dealers out there that would actually deceive you into buying one of their vehicles. Man, what is the world coming to? As far as comparing the towing capacities of the Dodge and Tundra. Why not just get the chevy HD with the 8.1 or the duramax. They are rated at over 15,000. I think that solves that problem. OK, I'm sorry, only 12,000 if using a ball hitch. By the way, I've got a friend with 2 Dodge chassis cabs 1 tons with the cummins and 5 speed. He'll tow his bobcat with them, but when he needs to tow his backhow or bulldozer, he uses his F750 dump truck. I was really suprised that he won't tow the backhoe with the dodge's. I'll ask him next time how much the backhoe and trailer weigh.

ryanbab

About a wk ago i seen a dodge dakota (old style) towing a bobcat. The rear on this thing was riding pretty low to the ground

Ryan

t37l1011

So what's it going to take to find a duramax with a 6 speed? I sure would like to drive one before I order.

ryanbab

LUCK

t37l1011

Yea, I guess you got that right. I'm not really in all that much of a hurry to buy, will probably wait at least a year. However I would like to drive the thing so I can at least either forget about the diesel or crave it all the more. Kind of hard to tell just reading about it.

Bud

pescador1

Need to know a good price on a 2001 Tundra 4WD
Access Cab LTD with these options
AB,BB,CK,EJ,LA,N1,OF, V3. The dealer is telling
me his cost is $30,109 although i researched it at
$ 29,128. He says there are advertising and
financing costs that are making his cost more. Is
that true? He wants $31,000 for the truck. Any
info would be a great help. thanks, Pescador1

bco

recommend you visit www.tundrasolutions.com and pose your question there. that site is made up almost exclusively of tundra owners who will be able to give you much better and more detailed advice than you will receive here.

another good site for pricing out vehicles yourself is www.carwizard.com it allows you to "build" your own vehicle and compare dealer cost to invoice. that's what i used when negotiating the price for my new silverado.

bco

bco

settlement one argument with two statements:

1. yes, dodge (whether it was the dealer or corporate - prob'ly a little of both) screwed up when it came to handling of that issue.

2. no, a tundra cannot out-tow a dodge one ton.

bco

bco

incidentally, i do not care why you don't post your real name, etc on this site. my point is this: i began posting here with the naive assumption that what happens in this forum stays in this forum.

when that changed and someone pursued it outside (in REAL life, if you will) i changed my mind about how available i wanted to make my identity. i suppose i didn't realize how personal some folks here take things. personally, i can't imagine anyone saying anything to me in this forum that would make me want to pursue them off-line and do something about it. apparently, some take it much more seriously than i. i didn't (and still don't) see a reason to stop posting when a simple name change could protect me. now, if i could only get others to show the smallest bit of respect for that and stop posting my name, things would be just fine.

bco

rassom1

I will try to guide you to the twoing specs on the Dailmer Chrysler web site.
First get on the URL I posted.
Next click on "2001 Product Information".
Next Page click on "Dodge Brand Information".
Next page scroll down to Ram Pickup then click on "Specifications".
Next page scroll to the end and then click on "More 2001 Dodge Ram Specifications"
This next page will have all the towing specs.

Hope this helps.

Rassom1

modvptnl

I'll give you the credit for f150 but remember who called out dbhull??? Talk about predictable!!!I don't think that guy could go for more then a few posts before the "Zbad" comes out. LOL!!!

modvptnl

Almost forgot, the Dodge is getting a new tranny today. They ordered a couple extra this time for next month's visit.

Dude, don't take this personal but the red/oby oby/red posts on Tim's site are sort of making you two look gay. I don't think Tim's gonna stand for that much longer. LMAO!!!!