The only good thing thats not an SUV is well who knows. The RL is next in line to get a makeover. That might be delayed. It may get a v8, but who knows. Acura has no timeline to release a v8 engine. By then it will already be too late. The TL is outselling the Genesis though. All I can say is that Acura want's tier one but still have a value image.
Honda is still going to make a profit even though automakers are losing money. It won't be a very big profit but still a profit nonetheless.
It would be interesting to know whether the Acura Division is currently profitable.
Regarding Acura's tier one aspirations, the new TL is a step backward, and substituting SH-AWD for RWD architecture doesn't help either, in my opinion. Further, moving into tier one is made more difficult by virtue of the fact that the Acura brand has virtually no heritage. Heritage seems to be important to luxury car buyers. It's kind of a chicken and egg phenomenon. I don't think it's hopeless for Acura, but it'll take more than a V8 to break into the top rank. For proof, look no further than the Infiniti Q. It had a wonderful V8, but the Q has been relegated to the dust bin of automotive history.
I love Honda, but it seems like Acura is there [non-permissible content removed] child. While they will take risks on styling (butt ugly TL) it seems that they won't go all the way on mechanical design. The TL has the underpinning and dash of the Accord? The TSX is based on the Euro-Accord? Is it that hard to make a V-8 and a rear wheel drive TL? The existence of the RSX is a driving joke. Infiniti and Lexus and even Cadillac have far surpassed Acura's offerings.
RDX, MSX, what's the diff. At Acura all the model names are meaningless anyway now, as there is so little to differentiate between all the oversized, overweight, wannabe SUVs.
The real RSX should have remained the Integra and they should have continued to sell it. You can bet if they had they wouldn't have been looking at close to a 20% drop in sales last year. Even if they had taken the Integra and turned it in to a serious sports car, a mini-NSX if you will, with a 50% higher price it would have continued to sell better than every other individual model. That's my bet anyway.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My son has a 2005 RSX Type S. It is a fantastic sports car. At 210 hp it really flys. The versatility of the hatchback is a real plus. The problem Acura had with the RSX was it was too close to the Civic SI in performance and mainly in price. Acura is trying to move further away from overlapping Honda products. Acura's real problem is in order to compete with other performance/luxury car products offered today, it must move away from the basic Honda design philosophy of good gas mileage, sensibility and moderate pricing. I don't know how far away from those philosophies Acura is willing to go.
EVERYBODY here has been saying for years that they should develop a RWD sport coupe off the existing S2000 platform, give it an Acura-grade feature set (while keeping a close eye on reducing weight as much as possible), and sell it for around $35K. It would be one of a kind, and with four seats it would sell well I'm sure. Maybe they could also do a two-seat roadster. They could sell both as Integras. Heck, they could sell a four seat sedan as well, to round out the line. Make the sedan a bit cheaper maybe, start it around $30K.
They would KILL if they did this. If they truly want to be tier 1 some day, they need a couple of superlative RWD platforms and some stand-out cars, not a couple of fairly uninteresting sedans and 26 crossovers of slightly different style and excess girth and mass.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am not sure now is the best time to offer a V8..lol. Any company offering it now, would be crazy. Honda does not really "need" a V8 engine. It goes to show you that you don't have to have a V8 to get decent power. Styling is questionable. Too each there own, but I see where they were going with it. At least they took the chance, unlike other companys. Even more so than the Accord that is so casual.
At least Honda has a game plan on what they are doing and have been doing it, unlike other companys that are claiming that they knew all along. Its too late for excuses now. In my opinion we take something more from an already good thing. Of course anything and everyone can improve. But, they are the least of our problems. If anything they are keeping our industry afloat on many levels.
Acura might not need a V-8. But some turbo V-6, RWD, and full fledged AWD cars would go along way. The styling is also very backwards. The G makes the TL look like a crashed F-22. :shades:
Yes, they should work on a turbo. I think they could do something like the VW 2.0T and would have an amazing engine. Put that on a V6, and you have it step further. I plan to get a TSX, if they offer the V6, I might opt for that. It'll probably be priced to where the tech and V6 are priced about the same for the upgrade. That would be excellent. Or, is they offered a 2.0T in the TSX, I would jump on that too. Or maybe a V6 turbo, on the TSX. That would be fun. lol. wow.
I drove an RSX recently and it was a tiny tin box that appeared to be very cheaply made. The tires were terrible as I struggle to move off the dealership lot with less than 1" of snow on the ground. I was terrified as it struggled to maintain control and I really wonder why anyone would by a car that is so dangerous? The seats were paper thin and hard as a rock, and there was no leg room in the back. Maybe on a perfect summer day it's okay, but from what I read, then experienced first hand - this car is completely over-rated. I guess if you want to drive around with the little ACURA logo it makes you feel important, connected to your clique, but it's a scary car and I'd never ever suggest anyone buy one. There's much better cars out there, specifically a cadre of low mileage 2005 TL that are about $15K - leaving you room and money to do stuff with.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, because your opinion on the RSX is only one of many, and it differs completely from that of the vast majority of RSX owners and the conclusions in enthusiast magazines, I believe it is worthless. That's my opinion.
S2000 platform was designed and built specifically for the car. It doesn't have the stiffness or ability to be expanded as a sedan or coupe. Heck, the S2000 was designed and built secretly behind closed doors as a present for Shiciro Honda and was only meant to be around a couple of years.
If Honda is going to go the RWD route, it will need a fresh platform, designed for the ground up. And knowing them, IF they are going that route, it will be a platform that will be universal A LA the Accord platform that underpins everything from the TSX to the Pilot to the Odyssey.
Well, you and I both know they won't. Instead we will get boring crossover after boring crossover, with an occasional pause for another overweight FWD-based car with increasingly remote steering, in a never-ending yawnfest for the next ten years. This ZDX6 or whatever it is will be the next one.
My, it's making me sleepy already!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Acura, more than Infiniti, has the engineering firepower to beat BMW at it's own game, in my opinion. Instead, by leveraging Honda's FWD architecture, it chose a strategic direction that involves less risk, in the short run, but is unlikely to be as effective for achieving tier 1 status in the long run. I don't think that Acura's FWD-based SH-AWD system will be sufficient to compete with Mercedes, BMW, Infiniti, Lexus, or even Hyundai RWD vehicles.
I remain unclear on Acura's product plans beyond 2010. As an Acura owner and car enthusiast, that puzzles me. Will Acura replace the RL with a RWD sedan? How about the next generation TL, given that the current one seems to generate less enthusiasm than the previous two generations.
I'm less concerned about whether Acura will introduce a V8 than many, because I think that direct injection and turbocharged V6s can produce more than enough power.
Well, it strikes me as ironic that they have taken a page from the Toyota playbook, shooting safely for the middle part of the market where people wouldn't know an exceptionally well-engineered car if it came up and hit them in the face. This is ironic because Toyota acually tossed out that part of the playbook when it developed Lexus, having dedicated RWD platforms right from the start, ones that were not shared with the Toyota brand.
Acura deserves for this strategy to fail, but just as Toyota sells a million Camrys and half a million ES350s, Acura will probably manage to stay afloat selling the stuff they have now. You are absolutely right though, they will never get to tier 1 this way. And if they're not very careful, they will begin to lose Acura sales to Hyundai by the hundreds and thousands. O the humanity!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The marketplace, rather than our opinions (as brilliant as they are) and passions, will determine whether or not Acura's strategy will succeed. Acura's product strategy seems to be rather risk averse. Instead of batting for the fences, they go for singles and doubles. Well, unlike Infiniti, to cite an example, maybe they accept smaller profits in the long run as a tradeoff for increased probability that more limited profit goals will be achieved. Heck, I don't know. That's just a guess. As I said, I'm puzzled, and, I'll add, frustrated with Acura.
Acura doesn't have a single vehicle that I'd buy at the moment. Nor does it have anything in the pipeline that I can look forward to. In fact, since electronic features and gadgetry are as much of a turn off as a turn on for me, my enthusiasm for many new models is luke warm.
Horsepower used to be exciting, but in an era when there are virtually no more underpowered cars, brute power doesn't do it for me anymore, either. For this reason, I don't lust for cars such as the BMW M-Power, Mercedes AMGs, Lexus F models, Cadillac (can't remember what they call their Corvette-powered CTS) and Pontiac G8 GXP. They're over-the-top for me. The same doesn't apply to the Corvette. The base Corvette appeals to me, as does the Boxter. They're smaller and less ponderous than the cars mentioned previously. They're also less practical, but that hardly matters when you're dreaming.
Acura doesn't have a single vehicle that I'd buy at the moment. Nor does it have anything in the pipeline that I can look forward to
Ditto.
Horsepower used to be exciting, but in an era when there are virtually no more underpowered cars, brute power doesn't do it for me anymore, either
We are so in sync here it's scary. The slowest cheapest cars on the market today have more then enough power to be decently zippy off the line and maintain highway speed on hills, etc etc. Something middle of the market like a GTI 2.0 or a Civic SI is plenty fast for my needs. I have never thought Honda needed to have a V-8 for the Acura line, although it is possible a few people pass them up while they lack that "prestige" feature.
The V-6s they have are more than powerful enough, but the electronics and the steering remove the driver from the driving experience, so the cars still aren't fun to drive. I don't see Acura remedying this any time soon.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Instead of batting for the fences, they go for singles and doubles. Well, unlike Infiniti, to cite an example, maybe they accept smaller profits in the long run as a tradeoff for increased probability that more limited profit goals will be achieved. Heck, I don't know. That's just a guess. As I said, I'm puzzled, and, I'll add, frustrated with Acura.
Honda/Acura could very well compete with and beat BMW if they chose a rwd platform for their RL, TL series. Honda usually has best vehicle for most categories they compete in, not too many failures. They can build a competent rwd car, they have done so with the S2000 roadster.
Seemed like Acura was on right track with 04 TL. Wife had an 01 TL and traded it in for an 04 in Oct 2003 which I now drive. The 04 was a huge improvement in style, design, performance over the 01. Do not understand why Acura did not merely evolve the 04-08 generation with refinements for 09+. The size of the 04-08 was just right.
When ready for next new car, doubt that we will seriously consider an Acura TL of the current generation.
It should be very telling for Honda that the only current Acura drivers that are considering purchasing an Acura again are MDX owners, MDX being the biggest, porkiest, least efficient, least sporty model they offer. Is that really where they want to go?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Name 2 hatchbacks as good as the Integra,or,GSR.The Type S ia way more car than the Civic SI. I wonder what idiot was that VTEC be printed on the SI? The TSX being the entry car is for old ladies(no diasrespect intended) Find me a 2.0 liter like the Type S. My S is a drivers car. I also have a 2001 silver Integ that people are trying to buy off me at 6K above book.(23k on it) Yup, Acura goofed big time getting away from developing a low cost entry level performance car that was bullit proof.No way a Civic is an Acura. Mazda has a better line of cars than Honda or Toyta I can't wait to see them compete in 2010. :shades:
The ZDX will come out on 11.9.09. The 2010 TSX is already out. The initial allocation is 55 percent v6 and 45 percent i4. Future allocations will be 25 percent v6 and 75 percent i4. It's a rolling release so not all dealers will get it at the same time.
It makes it sound like Honda has reinvented sliced bread with the new TSX V-6, when in fact it proposes to install an existing powertrain in a car that is 97% of the weight and size of the TL that powertrain comes standard in, and sell it for 97% of the price. This is some big news?! Ridiculous.
Among some choice excerpts from the review:
There are drawbacks. Fuel economy drops to 21 mpg combined, something you might not expect for the smallest car in the Acura line. While the four-cylinder gets a six-speed manual or five-speed automatic, the TSX V6 comes with just the slushbox.
The electric steering was quick but not as communicative as we'd have liked and didn't deliver the same feel offered by, say, a 3-series.
The brakes feature the same diameter discs but get a new master cylinder and new rear pads. They, too, lacked the same feel we would have liked on a performance sedan. Going into fast corners, they didn't feel like they were grabbing those discs like a sport sedan should. Stopping distances felt longer than we might have expected.
Yeah, the V6 TSX is sorta screwey when you look at the overall mission of the vehicle in the first place. I drove the original one extensively and it was a hoot, sort of along the lines of an old Integra or Civic Si. It was nimble, balanced and had a fantastic turn-in that was BMW-like.
Now, the second gen has come around and it's bigger, heavier and softer. And Honda did nothing to raise the power which was disappointing. I think they knew this and that's where the Big V6 comes in. Too bad it's probably going to turn a once balanced, racy sports sedan into a nose heavy boulevard cruiser :sick:
The TSX was supposed to be the anti-Accord while that car went up against larger saloons like the Avalon, Maxima and Taurus. But now it appears the TSX is closer to the Accord than ever before. Sadly, I think the only thing the V6 TSX is going to steal customers away from will be its own TL.
Of course, given that both cars are now so ugly it is painful to look at them, maybe neither will steal sales from anyone but merely decline into obscurity......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
TL goes from beautiful to very edgy, some say ugly, bigger, more of a barge TSX goes from handsome to bigger, more numb, edgier (but not as ugly as TL)
It looks like Acura is moving toward a budget Lexus approach. They are losing the smaller, agile vehicles. Similarly to the Accord, which used to be an agile, sporty midsized sedan and has turned into a big, soft barge (sporty if you used to drive a Buick or Toyota).
Unfortunately I liked Honda and Acura *because* of the smaller and agile handling, with at least handsome styling. Although I'm getting older and softer, my automotive tastes are NOT. The new Acura sedans are NOT very attractive to me. I'll probably be looking at Mazda now, as I want a good value with good handling. Something like the Mazda 3 or 6. I like VWs but the Passat has gotten ugly and I don't like their reliability and cost-of-maintenance issues. Not sure what else in the marketplace would offer that combination.
I think every change Acura makes is Audi's gain. A brand you may want to consider, although obviously the reliability issues would be similar to those of VW.
Of course, Acura is just trying to cater to what the "luxury market" is supposed to be in the U.S. Here "luxury" means squishy-handling, quiet, big-engined, and packed with every convenience feature they could possibly cram in there. Even BMW is increasingly going that route.
Most enthusiasts will hunger for something completely different from their car, and while Acura used to have it, it doesn't have it now and won't have it in the future. Which is too bad.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Increasingly, luxury means more gadgets and features that isolate the driver from the driving experience. That's not what I'm looking for. One solution is to go down market, to less feature laden models. That would mean replacing an older TL with an Accord, or something in the Accord class. Not a perfect solution, but there may not be a perfect solution. Another alternative is to just keep driving the old car. If enough people did that, one would think that it would send a message.
I think every change Acura makes is Audi's gain. A brand you may want to consider, although obviously the reliability issues would be similar to those of VW.
I had a 1998 Audi A4 (5-speed) and it was a wonderful car in most respects. I bought my current 2005 Acura TL (auto) when my kids got too big for the Audi's back seat. Even my TL is a bit too large and floaty for my tastes -- I like the previous TSX better than my TL in the size and handling department. My TL is a borderline barge cruiser with some semblance of sportiness. It's also a really nice looking car.
I don't particularly care for the look of the new A4. And the prices have gone sky high. My 6 cyl A4 ran me about $32K in 1998. That same car today is over $40K.
Yes. Of course, if you want the TL-S with the stick and the "sport" suspension, the same thing has happened to the price of YOUR model in the same time period.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
.............They can build a competent rwd car, they have done so with the S2000 roadster............
I agree that Honda's approach to inovation is too timid. They built some great cars like you mention the S2000 that beat the pants off all the competition. It waled on the Boxster, the TT, little Benz, and ... everything else in that class. The NSX is another example where Honda built the best 'Ferrari' ever!! Small volume but very competent with a powerfull 6-cyl. I would like to see Honda / Acura go BOLD again!!! The Element is a cool vehicle, but somehow Honda got it jacked up in the marketing dept. Toyota hit it just right with their Scion line. Cheap entry and double the price with accessories... Honda NEVER got that, -- and the sales figures are showing it!!!
I like Scions, test drove an xD today in fact. But sales are way off for their whole line, and were off even before the big economic slump. (Motorauthority)
I talked to a woman a couple of weeks back here who just got a new Element for her vending business (she's hauling lightweight junk around, not the machines). She loves it.
I think when the automakers get bold, the bean counters think Aztek.
Now, if Honda came out with another roadster, but priced like the Miata, or even less ....
Not a perfect solution, but there may not be a perfect solution. Another alternative is to just keep driving the old car. If enough people did that, one would think that it would send a message.
Those of us who have last gen TLs (04-08), we may just do that waiting to see if Acura fixes up the current gen or has another model coming out. Who knows that they might be secretly developing a rwd competitior to BMW or Infiniti. Could get tempted into rwd Acura sedan in spite of having 3-4 months winter in my area.
On driving forever, there is a guy in New York who has just recently completed three million miles in his 1965 Volvo P1800.
On driving forever, there is a guy in New York who has just recently completed three million miles in his 1965 Volvo P1800.
This kinda stuff is often a bit misleading. How many head jobs, transmission, engine bottom ends...? There was a diesel MBZ 180, early 60s with 1,000,000 miles on the original driveline! Now that is an accomplishment!
Acura has lost me. I favor relatively light and simple, well engineering entry and mid-level luxury cars, but this isn't the direction Acura has taken recently.
The new TL is too big and heavy, and handles like a large luxury barge. The TSX looks better than the TL, but the entry and exit space for rear seat passengers is severely compromised. The upshot of Acura's efforts to become a serious contender against the German luxury brands is falling short.
I used to be optimistic about Acura, but now I'm not. I'll just hold on to my excellent '99 TL until something more to my liking comes along.
I'm amazed they sell any cars at all these days, I really am. Now we have the ZDX on its way? Yuck. A pointless vehicle to add to this lineup. Where is the new NSX? Just stalled or gone forever? So they could build the ZDX and make the new TL even heavier than the old one? Honda deserves to have Acura go under, it really does.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I agree with both of you. The 4,400 lb., four seater ZDX defines inefficiency.
What's sad is that Honda seems to have the best engineering talent of all the Japanese auto companies. Nissan/Infiniti has the right business model, FWD for Nissan and RWD for Infiniti, but Infiniti doesn't seem to be able to beat it's target German competitor, BMW. I think Infinitis are good cars, but "close" isn't good enough in this highly competitive marketplace. Also, I think Infinitis fall short on styling. While their styling isn't bad or offensive, it's bland and kind of sterile. It's not aspirational, as styling in the luxury category should be.
Back to Acura, I think that if management made the right strategic decisions, such as converting the brand to RWD, their engineers could execute on the direction required to compete effectively with the German luxury brands. It goes without saying that styling would also have to be totally rethought.
There are a good amount of people that make safety a priority. And safety is one of the calling cards for European brands like Volvo, Mercedes and Audi.
I don't think safety is the differentiater it used to be in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. when Volvo, in particular, seriously focused on safety from multiple perspectives. Today's luxury brand cars are all safe, in my estimation. What I'm saying is I wouldn't choose or reject an Acura over one of it's competitors based on safety. Other attributes are more important now, in my opinion.
That's cool. I actually do look at safety scores when it comes to my purchase. Not just crash test scores, but all weather scores. It's one of the reaons why my wife and I both drive Subarus. They excel in both areas.
Back to Acura, SH-AWD and excellent crash test scores put Acura closer to the top IMO when I compare them to say, Lexus for instance. I believe Hondas mission with Acura is to rival Volvo and Audi (sorta) rather than go after BMW or Mercedes which is what Toyota is doing with Lexus and Nissan with Infiniti. :shades:
Acura has lost me. I favor relatively light and simple, well engineering entry and mid-level luxury cars, but this isn't the direction Acura has taken recently.
I completely agree. I bought the '05 TL because it was bigger than my A4 and still somewhat sporty, plus it looks good. I've already got 88K on it and except for some squeaks, has been reliable.
The new Acuras are soft bargy electronics wonders. The styling is getting questionable. I wonder if the 04-08 TLs will end up being valuable classic used Acuras, more so than the new generation?
I'm thinking that with the way the brands are evolving, in a few years when I replace my TL I may be going to Mazda.
Comments
Honda is still going to make a profit even though automakers are losing money. It won't be a very big profit but still a profit nonetheless.
Regarding Acura's tier one aspirations, the new TL is a step backward, and substituting SH-AWD for RWD architecture doesn't help either, in my opinion. Further, moving into tier one is made more difficult by virtue of the fact that the Acura brand has virtually no heritage. Heritage seems to be important to luxury car buyers. It's kind of a chicken and egg phenomenon. I don't think it's hopeless for Acura, but it'll take more than a V8 to break into the top rank. For proof, look no further than the Infiniti Q. It had a wonderful V8, but the Q has been relegated to the dust bin of automotive history.
Infiniti and Lexus and even Cadillac have far surpassed Acura's offerings.
It is Euro Accord
The real RSX should have remained the Integra and they should have continued to sell it. You can bet if they had they wouldn't have been looking at close to a 20% drop in sales last year. Even if they had taken the Integra and turned it in to a serious sports car, a mini-NSX if you will, with a 50% higher price it would have continued to sell better than every other individual model. That's my bet anyway.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They would KILL if they did this. If they truly want to be tier 1 some day, they need a couple of superlative RWD platforms and some stand-out cars, not a couple of fairly uninteresting sedans and 26 crossovers of slightly different style and excess girth and mass.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So I'm not the only one who thinks this is a losing proposition? Glad to hear it. I think it ignores emerging trends rather than embracing them.
At least Honda has a game plan on what they are doing and have been doing it, unlike other companys that are claiming that they knew all along. Its too late for excuses now. In my opinion we take something more from an already good thing. Of course anything and everyone can improve. But, they are the least of our problems. If anything they are keeping our industry afloat on many levels.
The styling is also very backwards. The G makes the TL look like a crashed F-22. :shades:
I plan to get a TSX, if they offer the V6, I might opt for that. It'll probably be priced to where the tech and V6 are priced about the same for the upgrade. That would be excellent. Or, is they offered a 2.0T in the TSX, I would jump on that too. Or maybe a V6 turbo, on the TSX. That would be fun. lol. wow.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If Honda is going to go the RWD route, it will need a fresh platform, designed for the ground up. And knowing them, IF
My, it's making me sleepy already!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I remain unclear on Acura's product plans beyond 2010. As an Acura owner and car enthusiast, that puzzles me. Will Acura replace the RL with a RWD sedan? How about the next generation TL, given that the current one seems to generate less enthusiasm than the previous two generations.
I'm less concerned about whether Acura will introduce a V8 than many, because I think that direct injection and turbocharged V6s can produce more than enough power.
Acura deserves for this strategy to fail, but just as Toyota sells a million Camrys and half a million ES350s, Acura will probably manage to stay afloat selling the stuff they have now. You are absolutely right though, they will never get to tier 1 this way. And if they're not very careful, they will begin to lose Acura sales to Hyundai by the hundreds and thousands. O the humanity!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Acura doesn't have a single vehicle that I'd buy at the moment. Nor does it have anything in the pipeline that I can look forward to. In fact, since electronic features and gadgetry are as much of a turn off as a turn on for me, my enthusiasm for many new models is luke warm.
Horsepower used to be exciting, but in an era when there are virtually no more underpowered cars, brute power doesn't do it for me anymore, either. For this reason, I don't lust for cars such as the BMW M-Power, Mercedes AMGs, Lexus F models, Cadillac (can't remember what they call their Corvette-powered CTS) and Pontiac G8 GXP. They're over-the-top for me. The same doesn't apply to the Corvette. The base Corvette appeals to me, as does the Boxter. They're smaller and less ponderous than the cars mentioned previously. They're also less practical, but that hardly matters when you're dreaming.
Ditto.
Horsepower used to be exciting, but in an era when there are virtually no more underpowered cars, brute power doesn't do it for me anymore, either
We are so in sync here it's scary. The slowest cheapest cars on the market today have more then enough power to be decently zippy off the line and maintain highway speed on hills, etc etc. Something middle of the market like a GTI 2.0 or a Civic SI is plenty fast for my needs. I have never thought Honda needed to have a V-8 for the Acura line, although it is possible a few people pass them up while they lack that "prestige" feature.
The V-6s they have are more than powerful enough, but the electronics and the steering remove the driver from the driving experience, so the cars still aren't fun to drive. I don't see Acura remedying this any time soon.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Honda/Acura could very well compete with and beat BMW if they chose a rwd platform for their RL, TL series. Honda usually has best vehicle for most categories they compete in, not too many failures. They can build a competent rwd car, they have done so with the S2000 roadster.
Seemed like Acura was on right track with 04 TL. Wife had an 01 TL and traded it in for an 04 in Oct 2003 which I now drive. The 04 was a huge improvement in style, design, performance over the 01. Do not understand why Acura did not merely evolve the 04-08 generation with refinements for 09+. The size of the 04-08 was just right.
When ready for next new car, doubt that we will seriously consider an Acura TL of the current generation.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The TSX being the entry car is for old ladies(no diasrespect intended) Find me a 2.0 liter like the Type S. My S is a drivers car. I also have a 2001 silver Integ
that people are trying to buy off me at 6K above book.(23k on it)
Yup, Acura goofed big time getting away from developing a low cost entry level performance car that was bullit proof.No way a Civic is an Acura.
Mazda has a better line of cars than Honda or Toyta I can't wait to see them compete in 2010. :shades:
Among some choice excerpts from the review:
There are drawbacks. Fuel economy drops to 21 mpg combined, something you might not expect for the smallest car in the Acura line. While the four-cylinder gets a six-speed manual or five-speed automatic, the TSX V6 comes with just the slushbox.
The electric steering was quick but not as communicative as we'd have liked and didn't deliver the same feel offered by, say, a 3-series.
The brakes feature the same diameter discs but get a new master cylinder and new rear pads. They, too, lacked the same feel we would have liked on a performance sedan. Going into fast corners, they didn't feel like they were grabbing those discs like a sport sedan should. Stopping distances felt longer than we might have expected.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090605/CARREVIEWS/906059995
And all that goodness for only 35-1/2 grand! :-/
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now, the second gen has come around and it's bigger, heavier and softer. And Honda did nothing to raise the power which was disappointing. I think they knew this and that's where the Big V6 comes in. Too bad it's probably going to turn a once balanced, racy sports sedan into a nose heavy boulevard cruiser :sick:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
BMW is not their main competitor. Lexus and Infiniti are. Honda should do for the Acura brand, what it did for the Accord.
TL goes from beautiful to very edgy, some say ugly, bigger, more of a barge
TSX goes from handsome to bigger, more numb, edgier (but not as ugly as TL)
It looks like Acura is moving toward a budget Lexus approach. They are losing the smaller, agile vehicles. Similarly to the Accord, which used to be an agile, sporty midsized sedan and has turned into a big, soft barge (sporty if you used to drive a Buick or Toyota).
Unfortunately I liked Honda and Acura *because* of the smaller and agile handling, with at least handsome styling. Although I'm getting older and softer, my automotive tastes are NOT. The new Acura sedans are NOT very attractive to me. I'll probably be looking at Mazda now, as I want a good value with good handling. Something like the Mazda 3 or 6. I like VWs but the Passat has gotten ugly and I don't like their reliability and cost-of-maintenance issues. Not sure what else in the marketplace would offer that combination.
Of course, Acura is just trying to cater to what the "luxury market" is supposed to be in the U.S. Here "luxury" means squishy-handling, quiet, big-engined, and packed with every convenience feature they could possibly cram in there. Even BMW is increasingly going that route.
Most enthusiasts will hunger for something completely different from their car, and while Acura used to have it, it doesn't have it now and won't have it in the future. Which is too bad.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I had a 1998 Audi A4 (5-speed) and it was a wonderful car in most respects. I bought my current 2005 Acura TL (auto) when my kids got too big for the Audi's back seat. Even my TL is a bit too large and floaty for my tastes -- I like the previous TSX better than my TL in the size and handling department. My TL is a borderline barge cruiser with some semblance of sportiness. It's also a really nice looking car.
I don't particularly care for the look of the new A4. And the prices have gone sky high. My 6 cyl A4 ran me about $32K in 1998. That same car today is over $40K.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I agree that Honda's approach to inovation is too timid. They built some great cars like you mention the S2000 that beat the pants off all the competition. It waled on the Boxster, the TT, little Benz, and ... everything else in that class. The NSX is another example where Honda built the best 'Ferrari' ever!! Small volume but very competent with a powerfull 6-cyl. I would like to see Honda / Acura go BOLD again!!! The Element is a cool vehicle, but somehow Honda got it jacked up in the marketing dept. Toyota hit it just right with their Scion line. Cheap entry and double the price with accessories... Honda NEVER got that, -- and the sales figures are showing it!!!
I talked to a woman a couple of weeks back here who just got a new Element for her vending business (she's hauling lightweight junk around, not the machines). She loves it.
I think when the automakers get bold, the bean counters think Aztek.
Now, if Honda came out with another roadster, but priced like the Miata, or even less ....
Those of us who have last gen TLs (04-08), we may just do that waiting to see if Acura fixes up the current gen or has another model coming out. Who knows that they might be secretly developing a rwd competitior to BMW or Infiniti. Could get tempted into rwd Acura sedan in spite of having 3-4 months winter in my area.
On driving forever, there is a guy in New York who has just recently completed three million miles in his 1965 Volvo P1800.
This kinda stuff is often a bit misleading. How many head jobs, transmission, engine bottom ends...? There was a diesel MBZ 180, early 60s with 1,000,000 miles on the original driveline! Now that is an accomplishment!
The new TL is too big and heavy, and handles like a large luxury barge. The TSX looks better than the TL, but the entry and exit space for rear seat passengers is severely compromised. The upshot of Acura's efforts to become a serious contender against the German luxury brands is falling short.
I used to be optimistic about Acura, but now I'm not. I'll just hold on to my excellent '99 TL until something more to my liking comes along.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
What's sad is that Honda seems to have the best engineering talent of all the Japanese auto companies. Nissan/Infiniti has the right business model, FWD for Nissan and RWD for Infiniti, but Infiniti doesn't seem to be able to beat it's target German competitor, BMW. I think Infinitis are good cars, but "close" isn't good enough in this highly competitive marketplace. Also, I think Infinitis fall short on styling. While their styling isn't bad or offensive, it's bland and kind of sterile. It's not aspirational, as styling in the luxury category should be.
Back to Acura, I think that if management made the right strategic decisions, such as converting the brand to RWD, their engineers could execute on the direction required to compete effectively with the German luxury brands. It goes without saying that styling would also have to be totally rethought.
You want safe and boring, you buy the Lexus, no?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Back to Acura, SH-AWD and excellent crash test scores put Acura closer to the top IMO when I compare them to say, Lexus for instance. I believe Hondas mission with Acura is to rival Volvo and Audi (sorta) rather than go after BMW or Mercedes which is what Toyota is doing with Lexus and Nissan with Infiniti. :shades:
I completely agree. I bought the '05 TL because it was bigger than my A4 and still somewhat sporty, plus it looks good. I've already got 88K on it and except for some squeaks, has been reliable.
The new Acuras are soft bargy electronics wonders. The styling is getting questionable. I wonder if the 04-08 TLs will end up being valuable classic used Acuras, more so than the new generation?
I'm thinking that with the way the brands are evolving, in a few years when I replace my TL I may be going to Mazda.