If a car doesn't sell well, it doesn't have any strong points.
I disagree. A car with strong points may be overlooked by consumers for several reasons. For example, Accord has very strong points. But do you think it will sell if it were offered in just EX-LV6 trim? Or will it need help somewhere to go with those strong points it has?
Honda has to look at this from the viewpoint of a company trying to get the most sales it can from the most people it can.
Of course. But that doesn't mean they don't take missteps.
Honda and its dealers know exactly what sells and what doesn't.
What happened with Accord Hybrid? isellhondas pointed out that Honda offered an inca gold trim on Civic that nobody wanted. Why did THAT happen?
Honda does a LOT of things right, but marketing is not one of them.
People thought Honda "should" produce Accord Hybrids and they did! They didn't sell well.
Perhaps because Honda "knew" what people were asking for and delivered that formula, instead of actually studying the market? Are you suggesting that Honda got emotional over this model, instead of using its retail experience?
You CAN buy an EXL Accord with a manual transmission as long as it's a 4 cylinder.
Because of people like you, Honda decided to try selling V-6 Accord sedans. They were a flop! MOST people want automatics! No more Maximas with sticks either...Why? They didn't sell either.
As far as giving me nightmares, don't flatter yourself. I wouldn't put up with you for a minute. Lots of other sales people here.
Regressive? Yeah, I guess that's what you call the Number One dealer in nine states for the past 26 years.
People thought Honda "should" produce Accord Hybrids and they did! They didn't sell well.
I didn't see this as a lack of demand. I saw it as a misstep in packaging and delivery. What were the details again? Something like $2k more for 2 mpg better? Really should have come as no surprise to anyone that it flopped.
Reminds me of when luxo marks offer up a $30k 4-cyl hatchback, it doesn't sell, and they scream "americans don't want hatchbacks!" Gee, ya every think the real reason is that its $30k for an economy car with a luxo badge??!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
" Someone", someone like YOU perhaps thought Inca Gold would be a hit. It wasn't.
Sound to me that if something fails, blame the consumer. So, how do you know Honda chose to ignore its extensive "retail experience"? What were dealers doing? For once they "gave into" consumers and failed, right? Let me guess, they were unhappy with Honda's decision when the car was announced. Right? Or, did it unfold as a rude awakening?
That reminds me of previous Civic Si. Why did it fail? Perhaps we should let isellhondas tell us all about it. I'm hoping he won't blame "us" the consumers for being clueless, demanding for something and ultimately not buying it.
I thought it was a good car, just poorly executed. Honda learnt a lesson from it and went back to what people liked and wanted. I guess it takes an stumble or two for them to learn. So much for extensive retail experience and "impressive" knowledge base that the dealerships are.
Yeah, I thought that the Accord hybrid could have been better thought out. I wish they'd have rethought and do it differently but they didn't.
Hard to argue with Honda on marketing. The worst thing you can say is the Camry outsells the Accord. That's hardly bad marketing, though I will never understand why that many more people buy Camrys.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Toyota sells more Camrys to fleet customers. If I recall correctly, about 10-12 percent of Camrys go to fleet customers. The figure is 1-2 percent for the Accord.
Plus, Toyota has more promotional offers and rebates than Honda does.
yeah, BR, the Accord has gotten too big. I feel my '06 is already too big. Not so much when I need the space. But it just FEELS big during my daily commute. When are they going to make an adjustable car? Kinda like those pants with the little bit of elastic on each side of the waist. Best pants in the world! And I'm far from overweight, by the way. So no jokes.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Good point. I have been put in a Camry rental. I have never been in a Honda rental of any sort.
Yeah, that's what I need - an adjustable car! It could squeeze down to the size of my old 80 Accord most of the time. When I need the space or am just about to be hit it could expand up to the size of the 08!
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Consumers are ultimately responsible for what sells and what fails. It's called the market. Dealers don't really care about what sells. If pink tricycles sold and were profitable,dealers would carry them. BUT,when it is YOUR money tied up in inventory that doesn't sell,only an idiot would sign up for more of that. No dealer is interested in the marginal customer because it simply isn't profitable. Dealers are interested in what the MAJORITY of car buyers want.
Here is a consumer, looking at two cars, one being Accord and the other is Altima. He is told that the base price on the Altima V6 is $24K, and that on the Accord it is $26K. What impression do you think that results in?
When it came to Acura RL, people couldn’t see why RL has a “base price” of almost $50K while the rest of the competition had the base price in low 40s. They deemed the RL “overpriced”. Sales couldn’t be worse. Is it a bad car without strong points? No!
It is a great car that is being overlooked and for valid reasons. If it were my money that car would be it over M35 and GS350 and 528i and E350 and STS. But that is also because I know cars. But it would be lame to expect a typical consumer to be like me. And there is Honda’s problem.
Acura goes ahead and launches Acura RDX. Good concept, again, but the execution had flaws. First of all, I don’t like the idea of using turbo. Secondly, if they did go for it, it needs to be better than it is. They made it worse by not mating it to a short/wide span 6AT (also a problem with RL which results in its engine being considered weak, and MDX). And looking at the interior, what’s up with that manual rear view mirror and a protruding lever for passenger side seat adjustment? This is supposed to be a vehicle representing premium brand, right? You can’t tell me that Acura couldn’t sell it with auto-dimming mirrors and even a 4-passenger power seat because consumers don’t want them.
Honda also reminds me of an open person who doesn’t mind being, sometimes, a bit too honest. Most automakers will try to say that they are appealing to younger folks. Honda goes the other way with the Accord well, the average age of an Accord buyer is about 50, so we designed a car around their needs. Sure, you did, but what do you think a person in low 30s would feel? It won’t affect me, as I didn’t mind buying an Accord when I was only 23. But it doesn’t work that way for a typical buyer.
I am as much a Hondamentalist as one can be. But that doesn’t mean I can’t see and point at flaws, and missteps Honda continues to take. It is a company that deserves greater success. And if the point has to be around pink tricycle, then I’m afraid, we’re entering the realms of being unrealistic and making ridiculous comparisons.
How about the styling mishap with 2003 Accord? Someone at Honda approved the design that most people dismissed at first glance. Honda is forced to make revisions after two years, and major ones a year after. That doesn’t helps establish credibility to “everything is right” in Honda-dom.
As for dealers, they are only interested in making money. When they jack up the price to obscene levels, they aren't doing it with the idea to appeal to majority of buyers. Just taking advantage of a situation.
And they won't know the customers they lost, or those who never showed up.
Playing it safe is good. But playing it well is better. People's preference for color combinations is easy to figure out. There is ample data on it. But let us say, if Honda were to offer an Accord V6 sedan with sport tuned chassis, do you think it will fail (because you haven't sold any)?
A few posts ago, you dismissed my opinion based on grounds that I am not qualified to talk about sales and marketing. I am not surprised, after all that is the norm. Interestingly enough, it contrasts Honda’s fundamental belief against "gakubatsu" (if you’re wondering what that is, read this article on Soichiro Honda). An excerpt:
In addition to the zaibatsu, Japanese industry relied heavily on the gakubatsu, described by Shook as "the 'good old boy' networking system that placed more emphasis on what school a person graduated from than on his or her ability to perform on the job." Honda had no respect for this system.
Fortunately, some of it is still alive within Honda (and seems to have proliferated among other prominent Japanese automakers). For that, just compare the qualification of the top guy at Honda (Takeo Fukui) to those from GM, Ford and Chrysler. I would have expected the business degree for top management position. Wouldn't you?
So, don't underestimate someone's ability to analyze and recommend things based on grounds that he/she doesn't have "qualifications" to go with it. Or you will be displeasing Soichiro Honda big time.
And if sending my resume to Honda works on job that deals with product development and marketing, I will gladly do so.
if Honda were to introduce a seperate "sport" model Accord, no I don't they would sell in any significant numbers.
Here is a consumer, looking at two cars, one being Accord and the other is Altima. He is told that the base price on the Altima V6 is $24K, and that on the Accord it is $26K. What impression do you think that results in?
Obviously, Honda thinks more of its product than Nissan does.
When it came to Acura RL, people couldn’t see why RL has a “base price” of almost $50K while the rest of the competition had the base price in low 40s. They deemed the RL “overpriced”. Sales couldn’t be worse. Is it a bad car without strong points? No!
The RL doesn't have any strong points that is why it doesn't sell. It's overpriced, it's styling leaves something to be desired,it only is offered in a 6 cyl where the competition is offered w/ V8's. Honda isn't perfect,no motor company is.
As for dealers, they are only interested in making money.
Are we supposed to be some kind of charity? Gee, nobody told me.
When they jack up the price to obscene levels, they aren't doing it with the idea to appeal to majority of buyers. Just taking advantage of a situation.
First of all,dealers do not set the sticker prices,or the incentives. the only time the price is "jacked up" is if a car is in short supply and is red hot in sales. That is just simple supply and demand. If you don't like,don't pay it. It's very simple. It doesn't affect anyone who buys a regular model and it doesn't cost the dealer who do it any business. If it did,they wouldn't do it.
I was serious about sending your resume to Honda. You do have a lot of ideas and some may have some merit.
It's just that 99.9% of our customers don't concern themselves with some of the petty things that are so important to you. Please try to understand that.
By significant, I mean they wouldn't sell enough of them to justify production.
You know,most consumers are like him. Theya re only concerned with what they want and like,and expect that everyone else feels the same way.
I get the "why don't you carry the(insert weired variant here)question from time to time from people who are quite indignant that we wouldn't anticipate their unusual tastes and have a car just for them.
Unfortunately, I don't think AHM is what Honda was. They will probably look for "professional" experience in my resume. Unless I get Soichiro's recommendation letter. :P
Obviously, Honda thinks more of its product than Nissan does.
While it is important for an automaker to think high of its products, they should never lose sight of what strikes a consumer. I don’t know about you, but I have seen plenty of folks complaining about Accord now costing over $30K but haven’t seen such talk around $32K Altima or Camry. As strange as it may sound, that’s the reality and I’m one of the few who actually tries to make a point for Honda.
The RL doesn't have any strong points that is why it doesn't sell. It's overpriced, it's styling leaves something to be desired,it only is offered in a 6 cyl where the competition is offered w/ V8's. Honda isn't perfect,no motor company is.
Exactly the reason I brought it up. You seem to be the kind of consumer I’m talking about. The very reason you brought up V6 to V8 comparison is because you think RL is overpriced. Yet, you can load up virtually all of RL’s competitors to same or higher price with similar features. Whose fault is it that RL came in one-size-fits all?
the only time the price is "jacked up" is if a car is in short supply and is red hot in sales. That is just simple supply and demand. If you don't like,don't pay it.
Of course. But that was to counter your argument that dealers are only interested in what consumers buy. I am a consumer, ain’t I? The only interest they have is making money, as much as they can.
Well, car sales are pretty saturated in this country according to some sources.
The bicycle market faced this bullet not long ago. The number of riders has fallen more than 8% in recent years. To compete, they are offering customers what they want (or stuff they didn't know they wanted until they read the ads). People wind up buying multiple bikes instead of just having one road bike or one mountain bike.
"Most major manufacturers -- including Taiwan-based Giant, the world's largest bike maker, and Specialized Bicycles -- are offering some form of "limited edition" or personalized model this year, bikes that are produced in limited quantities, have frames signed by famous designers or come with custom paint jobs."
I could see the automakers trying to eek out more sales by offering special editions with manual trannies, or limited edition paint jobs and the like. Custom orders or even group buys could follow.
I know and that is exactly why I won't work the car shows anymore. I simply don't have the patience to deal with the car nuts. They will go on and on about how Honda is missing the boat and about how Honda should build this and that.
Always soem oddball configuration that wouldn't sell.
It's fine for about the first hour then I lose interest.
Bit of a difference between the Civic SI sedan and the Accord coupe.
The SI is more of a boy racer kind of car and the accord coupe is mostly bought by men in the 40s and up I think. Craig probably knows the demos better then me.
While it is important for an automaker to think high of its products, they should never lose sight of what strikes a consumer. I don’t know about you, but I have seen plenty of folks complaining about Accord now costing over $30K but haven’t seen such talk around $32K Altima or Camry. As strange as it may sound, that’s the reality and I’m one of the few who actually tries to make a point for Honda.
I'm sure there are some buyers for whom a $26 or $30,000 Honda is too much. Honda still sells more than their share of cars though.
Exactly the reason I brought it up. You seem to be the kind of consumer I’m talking about. The very reason you brought up V6 to V8 comparison is because you think RL is overpriced. Yet, you can load up virtually all of RL’s competitors to same or higher price with similar features. Whose fault is it that RL came in one-size-fits all?
Luxury cars aren't just about options. Acura lacks the cachet that Lexus or BMW or Mercedes has. So, it can't be in the same ballpark financially as those cars. A $50,000 V6 japanese sedan is just a non starter.
Of course. But that was to counter your argument that dealers are only interested in what consumers buy. I am a consumer, ain’t I? The only interest they have is making money, as much as they can.
Dealers are only interested in what the MAJORITY of consumers buy. Not ALL consumers.
Well, car sales are pretty saturated in this country according to some sources.
Yup, we have fully matured as a market. There are no new buyers coming into the marketplace, the number of buyers exiting is slightly greater than the number coming in. This will get worse as the baby boomers drop out of the marketplace.
I could see the automakers trying to eek out more sales by offering special editions with manual trannies, or limited edition paint jobs and the like. Custom orders or even group buys could follow.
Problem is, cars cost alot more than bicycles. If you guess wrong,you get stuck. Mini and the Volvo C30 have gone for the custom market. But those are relatively low numbers.
Even scarier is lots of folks are willing to pay that much for one. :shades:
I bet Volvo could paint up 10 blue C30s with some orange(!) trim, stick some blue astroturf-like carpet in them and add a couple of Boise State logos around the license plate and pre-sell them all in 24 hours for a $5,000 premium over MSRP. Call it the C30 Fiesta model.
My dream car is pretty much an "Accord Si". Take an Accord coupe, route the power to the rear wheels, and drop in the engine out of the S200. Unfortunatly, it'll never happen. If it did, it would likely be in the 40K range and out of my league.
The accord coupe as it is now has always seemed to fit an odd demographic. Someone middleaged, without kids, who wants something sporty, but not a sports car. I've looked at the V6 coupes a few times over the past decade. I never found one to try with a manual, and it never seemed very "sporty". In the end I always went elsewhere.
And S2k engine would never move an Accord with any kind of authority. Plus, of course, a RWD accord would no longer be an accord at all. But, putting that aside, I definitely agree that a RWD sedan from Honda would be GREAT!!
As for the RL debate, IMHO it isn't the V6 that kills it. I don't think folks care about that. I mean, the vast majority of sales of its competitors are the 6-cyl version, not the optional V8s. What kills it is that it sits on the lot next to a car that is almost as big, maybe a hair less luxurious, and just as nice looking, while costing around $15k less. THAT is why the RL looks grossly overpriced.
I think a sporty accord would sell ... if they gave it steering wheel paddles. Its all about the gimmicks.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My Acura contacts tell me the next gen RL will be offered in a long wheel base model that should be slightly larger then the E-Class/5 series competitors. It will also get an engine other then a V6.
I am on my 2nd Honda. My first(89 CRX 2 seater 60mpg highway) is only gone because my husband totaled it 6 years ago(only problem I had with that was a clutch cable). My 2nd is a 95 van. I have had almost no problems with it. At the 7 year mark it need a new master cylinder, the 10 year mark you need a new radiator $200 after market price. The 12-year mark you need and ignition switch $30. Other then that, NOTHING (but oil changes) IT WON'T DIE... I am looking in to getting a Maxima. My Husband keeps insisting that the van is fine. So I guess that Honda is one of the better more reliable car companies. To Make them the best the need more to there cars, buttons, or just to change the interior more. It is SO BORING.
Comments
I disagree. A car with strong points may be overlooked by consumers for several reasons. For example, Accord has very strong points. But do you think it will sell if it were offered in just EX-LV6 trim? Or will it need help somewhere to go with those strong points it has?
Honda has to look at this from the viewpoint of a company trying to get the most sales it can from the most people it can.
Of course. But that doesn't mean they don't take missteps.
Honda and its dealers know exactly what sells and what doesn't.
What happened with Accord Hybrid? isellhondas pointed out that Honda offered an inca gold trim on Civic that nobody wanted. Why did THAT happen?
Honda does a LOT of things right, but marketing is not one of them.
Perhaps because Honda "knew" what people were asking for and delivered that formula, instead of actually studying the market? Are you suggesting that Honda got emotional over this model, instead of using its retail experience?
You CAN buy an EXL Accord with a manual transmission as long as it's a 4 cylinder.
Because of people like you, Honda decided to try selling V-6 Accord sedans. They were a flop! MOST people want automatics! No more Maximas with sticks either...Why? They didn't sell either.
As far as giving me nightmares, don't flatter yourself. I wouldn't put up with you for a minute. Lots of other sales people here.
Regressive? Yeah, I guess that's what you call the Number One dealer in nine states for the past 26 years.
Companies that never try anything never have any hits etiher.
" Someone", someone like YOU perhaps thought Inca Gold would be a hit. It wasn't.
That's why.
I didn't see this as a lack of demand. I saw it as a misstep in packaging and delivery. What were the details again? Something like $2k more for 2 mpg better? Really should have come as no surprise to anyone that it flopped.
Reminds me of when luxo marks offer up a $30k 4-cyl hatchback, it doesn't sell, and they scream "americans don't want hatchbacks!" Gee, ya every think the real reason is that its $30k for an economy car with a luxo badge??!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
And what dealership would that be and in what State?
Sound to me that if something fails, blame the consumer. So, how do you know Honda chose to ignore its extensive "retail experience"? What were dealers doing? For once they "gave into" consumers and failed, right? Let me guess, they were unhappy with Honda's decision when the car was announced. Right? Or, did it unfold as a rude awakening?
I thought it was a good car, just poorly executed. Honda learnt a lesson from it and went back to what people liked and wanted. I guess it takes an stumble or two for them to learn. So much for extensive retail experience and "impressive" knowledge base that the dealerships are.
Caust that is about 4 inches longer then a LR3
It is insane that an accord has gotten so big. Easily makes room on the line up for a smaller car like the Fit.
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Hard to argue with Honda on marketing. The worst thing you can say is the Camry outsells the Accord. That's hardly bad marketing, though I will never understand why that many more people buy Camrys.
Plus, Toyota has more promotional offers and rebates than Honda does.
yeah, BR, the Accord has gotten too big. I feel my '06 is already too big. Not so much when I need the space.
But it just FEELS big during my daily commute. When are they going to make an adjustable car? Kinda like those pants with the little bit of elastic on each side of the waist. Best pants in the world! And I'm far from overweight, by the way. So no jokes.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yeah, that's what I need - an adjustable car! It could squeeze down to the size of my old 80 Accord most of the time. When I need the space or am just about to be hit it could expand up to the size of the 08!
It's called the market.
Dealers don't really care about what sells.
If pink tricycles sold and were profitable,dealers would carry them.
BUT,when it is YOUR money tied up in inventory that doesn't sell,only an idiot would sign up for more of that.
No dealer is interested in the marginal customer because it simply isn't profitable.
Dealers are interested in what the MAJORITY of car buyers want.
For one thing, it's against forum rules and I don't use these forums to drum up business.
Sorry. It was just sitting there.
They tried an oddball color. Kind of like trying an oddball model that doesn't work.
When it came to Acura RL, people couldn’t see why RL has a “base price” of almost $50K while the rest of the competition had the base price in low 40s. They deemed the RL “overpriced”. Sales couldn’t be worse. Is it a bad car without strong points? No!
It is a great car that is being overlooked and for valid reasons. If it were my money that car would be it over M35 and GS350 and 528i and E350 and STS. But that is also because I know cars. But it would be lame to expect a typical consumer to be like me. And there is Honda’s problem.
Acura goes ahead and launches Acura RDX. Good concept, again, but the execution had flaws. First of all, I don’t like the idea of using turbo. Secondly, if they did go for it, it needs to be better than it is. They made it worse by not mating it to a short/wide span 6AT (also a problem with RL which results in its engine being considered weak, and MDX). And looking at the interior, what’s up with that manual rear view mirror and a protruding lever for passenger side seat adjustment? This is supposed to be a vehicle representing premium brand, right? You can’t tell me that Acura couldn’t sell it with auto-dimming mirrors and even a 4-passenger power seat because consumers don’t want them.
Honda also reminds me of an open person who doesn’t mind being, sometimes, a bit too honest. Most automakers will try to say that they are appealing to younger folks. Honda goes the other way with the Accord well, the average age of an Accord buyer is about 50, so we designed a car around their needs. Sure, you did, but what do you think a person in low 30s would feel? It won’t affect me, as I didn’t mind buying an Accord when I was only 23. But it doesn’t work that way for a typical buyer.
I am as much a Hondamentalist as one can be. But that doesn’t mean I can’t see and point at flaws, and missteps Honda continues to take. It is a company that deserves greater success. And if the point has to be around pink tricycle, then I’m afraid, we’re entering the realms of being unrealistic and making ridiculous comparisons.
How about the styling mishap with 2003 Accord? Someone at Honda approved the design that most people dismissed at first glance. Honda is forced to make revisions after two years, and major ones a year after. That doesn’t helps establish credibility to “everything is right” in Honda-dom.
As for dealers, they are only interested in making money. When they jack up the price to obscene levels, they aren't doing it with the idea to appeal to majority of buyers. Just taking advantage of a situation.
And they won't know the customers they lost, or those who never showed up.
Have you sent Honda your resume yet?
A change that hopefully most will approve of.
Cars YOU like are cars MOST people wouldn't buy and could care less about.
I know you can't understand that.
And, to answer your question, if Honda were to introduce a seperate "sport" model Accord, no I don't they would sell in any significant numbers.
A few posts ago, you dismissed my opinion based on grounds that I am not qualified to talk about sales and marketing. I am not surprised, after all that is the norm. Interestingly enough, it contrasts Honda’s fundamental belief against "gakubatsu" (if you’re wondering what that is, read this article on Soichiro Honda). An excerpt:
In addition to the zaibatsu, Japanese industry relied heavily on the gakubatsu, described by Shook as "the 'good old boy' networking system that placed more emphasis on what school a person graduated from than on his or her ability to perform on the job." Honda had no respect for this system.
Fortunately, some of it is still alive within Honda (and seems to have proliferated among other prominent Japanese automakers). For that, just compare the qualification of the top guy at Honda (Takeo Fukui) to those from GM, Ford and Chrysler. I would have expected the business degree for top management position. Wouldn't you?
So, don't underestimate someone's ability to analyze and recommend things based on grounds that he/she doesn't have "qualifications" to go with it. Or you will be displeasing Soichiro Honda big time.
And if sending my resume to Honda works on job that deals with product development and marketing, I will gladly do so.
if Honda were to introduce a seperate "sport" model Accord, no I don't they would sell in any significant numbers.
Define "significant".
If Civic were end all, there would be no point to Accord.
Obviously, Honda thinks more of its product than Nissan does.
When it came to Acura RL, people couldn’t see why RL has a “base price” of almost $50K while the rest of the competition had the base price in low 40s. They deemed the RL “overpriced”. Sales couldn’t be worse. Is it a bad car without strong points? No!
The RL doesn't have any strong points that is why it doesn't sell.
It's overpriced, it's styling leaves something to be desired,it only is offered in a 6 cyl where the competition is offered w/ V8's.
Honda isn't perfect,no motor company is.
As for dealers, they are only interested in making money.
Are we supposed to be some kind of charity?
Gee, nobody told me.
When they jack up the price to obscene levels, they aren't doing it with the idea to appeal to majority of buyers. Just taking advantage of a situation.
First of all,dealers do not set the sticker prices,or the incentives.
the only time the price is "jacked up" is if a car is in short supply and is red hot in sales. That is just simple supply and demand. If you don't like,don't pay it.
It's very simple. It doesn't affect anyone who buys a regular model and it doesn't cost the dealer who do it any business.
If it did,they wouldn't do it.
It's just that 99.9% of our customers don't concern themselves with some of the petty things that are so important to you. Please try to understand that.
By significant, I mean they wouldn't sell enough of them to justify production.
Theya re only concerned with what they want and like,and expect that everyone else feels the same way.
I get the "why don't you carry the(insert weired variant here)question from time to time from people who are quite indignant that we wouldn't anticipate their unusual tastes and have a car just for them.
While it is important for an automaker to think high of its products, they should never lose sight of what strikes a consumer. I don’t know about you, but I have seen plenty of folks complaining about Accord now costing over $30K but haven’t seen such talk around $32K Altima or Camry. As strange as it may sound, that’s the reality and I’m one of the few who actually tries to make a point for Honda.
The RL doesn't have any strong points that is why it doesn't sell. It's overpriced, it's styling leaves something to be desired,it only is offered in a 6 cyl where the competition is offered w/ V8's. Honda isn't perfect,no motor company is.
Exactly the reason I brought it up. You seem to be the kind of consumer I’m talking about. The very reason you brought up V6 to V8 comparison is because you think RL is overpriced. Yet, you can load up virtually all of RL’s competitors to same or higher price with similar features. Whose fault is it that RL came in one-size-fits all?
the only time the price is "jacked up" is if a car is in short supply and is red hot in sales. That is just simple supply and demand. If you don't like,don't pay it.
Of course. But that was to counter your argument that dealers are only interested in what consumers buy. I am a consumer, ain’t I? The only interest they have is making money, as much as they can.
The bicycle market faced this bullet not long ago. The number of riders has fallen more than 8% in recent years. To compete, they are offering customers what they want (or stuff they didn't know they wanted until they read the ads). People wind up buying multiple bikes instead of just having one road bike or one mountain bike.
"Most major manufacturers -- including Taiwan-based Giant, the world's largest bike maker, and Specialized Bicycles -- are offering some form of "limited edition" or personalized model this year, bikes that are produced in limited quantities, have frames signed by famous designers or come with custom paint jobs."
Custom Bikes for the Masses (WSJ)
I could see the automakers trying to eek out more sales by offering special editions with manual trannies, or limited edition paint jobs and the like. Custom orders or even group buys could follow.
Always soem oddball configuration that wouldn't sell.
It's fine for about the first hour then I lose interest.
Bit of a difference between the Civic SI sedan and the Accord coupe.
The SI is more of a boy racer kind of car and the accord coupe is mostly bought by men in the 40s and up I think. Craig probably knows the demos better then me.
I'm sure there are some buyers for whom a $26 or $30,000 Honda is too much.
Honda still sells more than their share of cars though.
Exactly the reason I brought it up. You seem to be the kind of consumer I’m talking about. The very reason you brought up V6 to V8 comparison is because you think RL is overpriced. Yet, you can load up virtually all of RL’s competitors to same or higher price with similar features. Whose fault is it that RL came in one-size-fits all?
Luxury cars aren't just about options.
Acura lacks the cachet that Lexus or BMW or Mercedes has.
So, it can't be in the same ballpark financially as those cars. A $50,000 V6 japanese sedan is just a non starter.
Of course. But that was to counter your argument that dealers are only interested in what consumers buy. I am a consumer, ain’t I? The only interest they have is making money, as much as they can.
Dealers are only interested in what the MAJORITY of consumers buy.
Not ALL consumers.
Yup, we have fully matured as a market.
There are no new buyers coming into the marketplace, the number of buyers exiting is slightly greater than the number coming in. This will get worse as the baby boomers drop out of the marketplace.
I could see the automakers trying to eek out more sales by offering special editions with manual trannies, or limited edition paint jobs and the like. Custom orders or even group buys could follow.
Problem is, cars cost alot more than bicycles.
If you guess wrong,you get stuck.
Mini and the Volvo C30 have gone for the custom market.
But those are relatively low numbers.
Even scarier is lots of folks are willing to pay that much for one. :shades:
I bet Volvo could paint up 10 blue C30s with some orange(!) trim, stick some blue astroturf-like carpet in them and add a couple of Boise State logos around the license plate and pre-sell them all in 24 hours for a $5,000 premium over MSRP. Call it the C30 Fiesta model.
Now do that with Michigan colors....
The accord coupe as it is now has always seemed to fit an odd demographic. Someone middleaged, without kids, who wants something sporty, but not a sports car. I've looked at the V6 coupes a few times over the past decade. I never found one to try with a manual, and it never seemed very "sporty". In the end I always went elsewhere.
As for the RL debate, IMHO it isn't the V6 that kills it. I don't think folks care about that. I mean, the vast majority of sales of its competitors are the 6-cyl version, not the optional V8s. What kills it is that it sits on the lot next to a car that is almost as big, maybe a hair less luxurious, and just as nice looking, while costing around $15k less. THAT is why the RL looks grossly overpriced.
I think a sporty accord would sell ... if they gave it steering wheel paddles. Its all about the gimmicks.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
-Rocky
My guess is that a RL Type-S will get the V10.
So I guess that Honda is one of the better more reliable car companies. To Make them the best the need more to there cars, buttons, or just to change the interior more. It is SO BORING.