a Navigator, I have discovered in the last week, (since temperatures have spiked well over 100 degrees, 111.2 at the moment) that this new Navigator has one hell of an air conditioner!!!! It literally can freeze me out, even on incredibly hot days, and do it quickly. What a blower! So, if A/C matters to you, have no fear, this vehicle got that right. I'm really starting to enjoy this car.
The looks, the interior, the A/C, 300 HP. So, what else do you like so much about the Lincoln Navigator? I think that the driver and passenger power seats with the power lumbar, rates high on the list of reasons to buy. What do you think about the long ride seat comfort? What do you like best about the Lincoln Navigator? "Thanks"
This is my second Navigator, my first having been a 99 with a flawless repair record. Since the 03 is a new design, there have been a couple of things that the dealer needed to get right, but I think we're done with those, and I'm loving this car as much as the old one, and more in some ways.
What I like:
The power folding 3rd seats. Very efficient & very convenient. No more muscling the old one out and leaving it in the garage when you went shopping for an antique, OR WORSE, forgetting to leave the seat at home, and having to leave it at the store and come back for it later! Which is a real pain when you're out of state.
The power liftgate. Not necessary, but convenient and sexy.....
The interior design. I was a fan of the 61 Continental when it came out, with the dual cowl design, and this is very reminiscent of it. The wood is beautiful, the steering wheel is the nicest design I've ever seen. I get tons of compliments on the interior of the whole truck. Such an improvement over the old one, and over the Chevy Truck interior in the Escalade, otherwise a nice looking truck.
The independent rear suspension. Makes a huge difference in how the truck drives.
The rack & pinion steering. Again, improves the road feel without requiring more steering effort.
Alpine Sound system. Once again, the best I've ever heard.
Climate Control - a biggie for me as it's so hot where I live. I've always been a fan of Ford Factory Air, but this one has outdone the rest.
Engine - Clearly the smoothest engine/transmission I've ever had. You can barely feel it shift, power is amazing, torque for towing is awesome, and the higher you rev it, the more power and torque you get. So when you really need the power, it's there, it's not running out of steam when the going gets tough.
Size - Plenty of room without being tough to get around town. The perfect combination of size & utility, IMO.
The Air Conditioned seats. What a great invention!
The keypad on the door. So convenient to leave the truck running and staying cool, while being able to lock it up. I don't understand why the other car companies don't get this.
What I don't like: Not much........
Little short on cupholders & open storage in the console. The console shift took some of that away. Not a huge deal, but noticed.
Interior colors - The black is too hot and dark, the tan is too light and gets dirty quickly. Nothing in between.
The power running boards. I tried one with them, opted not to buy them. Cute, but unnecessary and sometimes a bit of a pain.
That's about it. I was very good friends with my old one, it was a marvelous truck. I looked at the Sequoia and the Escalade, but the techology Ford put into this new truck has made the others so old news, there was no comparison......
You mention factory air, and by far from numerous sources that have worked on Ford's through-out the years, it's trade knowledge that it's one of the most effective one's. I even know someone who has an 85 Cougar with 260K miles, and still has the original compressor and has never had to do much than just add the illegal freon gas when needed. (this is Miami heat here).
And other's that have into my Ford vehicles, have noticed it cools down much more quickly then their own vehicles did.
Which vehicles I've noticed A/C's having trouble to cool down, are Civic's. Saturn's. Older Corolla's. Most MB's, and BMW's. Older Land Rover's. All Kia's, Hyundai's. Smaller Mitsu's.
Which Ford vehicle has the slowest to cool system, (little secret of mine) Explorer. Shhhhhh.
Have you driven a Town Car lately, post 98? They forgot to put a blower in the car. Very unusual for a Ford, but takes it right out of my market, that and the lousy seats they have started using in them.
No the only generation Town Car I've driven has been the current one. As for the Explorer, I'm talking about the current generation debuted in 2002, the previous generations had great A/C (had an Explorer myself once). But Ford went cheap with the current Explorer A/C, but that has been rectified.
I probably didn't make myself clear. It IS the current Town Car that has no air volume, IMO. Prior to 98, they were great like all Fords I have experienced. But for some reason, in 98 to the current day, and I have tried an 03 (I rent Town Cars a lot when traveling) the blower is about half of the volume you usually get. It's a lot like a BMW or Mercedes air. Is it just a matter of they went cheap again, or is there some engineering reason why a decent sized squirrel cage wouldn't fit in the dash or something? Anyway, in Vegas, it's hot like Miami, and I don't just buy a car, I buy an Air Conditioner with a car around it....I'm sure you know what I mean.....
I totally agree, the A/C is the first thing I'll test in a vehicle. Specially being Miami heat is very humid. So I usually set it at 75, then time it to see how long it takes, and how loud the blower is.
The Town Car I tested was only during the night time, so I can't say how effective that one is. But I did check up on it today with a Ford engineer, and yes it's not AS effective. HE stated a simple trick would be placing it in manual mode, and place it at a lower fan speed, like the one before the highest, and it should be much more effective.
I'm guessing it's sort of like my friends Saturn L300, it's automative, but if you let the system take care of it, it'll blast MUCH air, but it's not very cool, THEN it lowers itself to a slower speed where you feel much more cool air.
As for other Ford owners, in case they aren't award how to make their A/C run more effectively....placing it on MAX A/C, I've seen so many Ford owner's place their A/C button on Norm A/C, which takes the (already hot and humid) outside air, and cools it. Wasting much more gas, so I tell them MAX A/C is by far the best, being it works in the recyculation mode, and overall much more effective. The manual should state this, but sometimes when changing from one brand, to another, some people take their previous brands know-how, and believe the same will be true of their current vehicle.
The Town Car's cowl area (CV and GM as well) is able to accomadate a fairly large fan/blower/compressor unit. The current one, is a few generation's smaller than that of the older 80's, early 90's which I believe at THAT time they were at their largest. But I believe this has been, or will be rectified soon, it's not the only complaint (from what I heard) they have received.
Thanks, ANT, I truly hope they do fix it. It ruins the car for me. Certainly not a problem with the Navigator, it blows like Hurricane Andrea, and I'm grateful. Lived 2 years in Tallahassee myself, but was a poor student at FSU then, and my Pinto had no air, just vents! I understand all about Fla humidity.....
In a recent road trip my 03 Navi has some serious rattles in both front doors. I have no idea what this is but it sounds as if the doors are going to fall off. I have been looking at this and have a theory that is the panels attached to the lower doors. That is the lower area on the doors where the "Navigator" is printed. This area is able to moved on my truck. I can shift ever so slightly this panel back and forth. Can anyone else do this or is this panel firmly attached on your 03 Navis??? Thanks
If you believe it is, than chances are it might be. At such high speeds, aerodynamics can play a part on certain outside attachments and such. So it could be that it's, what you have described. So your 'case', sounds better, try to make sure it's something that can be replicated. As in, if it happens EACH time you drive that speed, then that's good. Chances are they are able to test drive it and notice it.
Also tell them what you BELIEVE it might be, and what the sound, sounds like. A personal tip, remember your odometer reading. That way you know for sure, if they did test the vehicle out. Do NOT accept answers such as "Well you shouldn't be driving that speed", I've usually replied "Then do not put a speedometer that goes that high" I've actually had that a dealership/service center (Pontiac) tell me that.
Each dealreship will treat you differently, it's best to take it where you bought it from, WHEN possible. Treatment should be better.
..."Then do not put a speedometer that goes that high" Heheheheh!! I have some vibrations in my steering wheel on my '03 Navigator when doing 70+ (70-75mph is legal where I live) and I'll probably need that comeback when I go in for service this month. Thanks ANT14.
Also, I too hear some slight "rustling" around the door panels at high speed. It is not a consistent problem though, so fixing it might be tricky. I read here or somewhere else that Ford has a possible solution by adding some double-sided tape or some foam to the back of the lower outside panels. That same source said the solution does not work very well.
I have a bunch of excuses I've had to use at service centers. One for a friends Sebring. The frameless doors were allowing water to pour into the interior, exactly where the power window switches were allocated. After 5 fixes, all electrical and such, they still weren't able to resolve it, they stated it was a "design flaw" and typical to frameless windows. My response "I had a Mustang with frameless windows, I never had that happen?" But I'm glad he admitted on record that it was a "design flaw". My friend applied a Lemon Law suit, and that statement cost them the trial.
Now I'm going after VW's, mildew laden A/C systems. Being that smells are "subjective", it's a bit harder to convince or prove otherwise... but we are working on it :-)
Are you guys able to slightly shift back and forth these lower door panels on your new 03 Navis. I believe if they all some give to them this may not be the problem causing these rattlings at interstate speeds or we should all be hearing this noise. It does not occur in town at below 55 speeds.
70-80 mph? Isn't this the speed limit on the interstate? So no problems should come from this. ANT14 it sounds as if you had that Pontaic a little (just a bit) above the speed limit. LOL!!
...."I read here or somewhere else that Ford has a possible solution by adding some double-sided tape or some foam to the back of the lower outside panels. That same source said the solution does not work very well."
Ok I'm a bit suicidal while driving long distances. I perfectly do 98MPH (Limited at 98) with a friend's Explorer on the FL Turnpike... Do NOT repeat this at home. The Pontiac WAS a Grand Am a friend had. Every other weekend we were at the dealership having to fix, replace, etc. something on that vehicle and I would join her, till one day she just got frustrated and purposely had an accident so she could have that car totalled. (My previous idea of leaving the car doors open in a bad neighborhood, did NOT work). I believe the Speed limit on the Turnpike is 70 or 75. And 65 around the heavy metro areas such as West Palm Beach, FTL, Miami. Actually I'm not really sure around that. Whatever it is, I add 20 for good luck. On Navi's you can't really feel how fast your really going. Seems your going slow, till you read your doing 20 over the limit.
Can't shift mine, but they do seem loose, and I do have the noise. However, I have NO confidence the dealer can fix them unless there is a TSB out on the problem, and I don't think there is. So, I just turn the radio up. Best solution for me. I believe it is the cladding either rattling from air turbulence, or just the turbulence from the design cuts itself making the sound. Surprised the wind tunnel didn't manifest this problem in testing. Damn first year out models.....
HINT: If you do complain about it, and enough people complain about the issue, then Ford will investigate and issue a TSB to resolve it. It just has to start with someone.
Well, ok, you make a good point, ANT. I'm generally not that nit-picky, but I guarantee you, if one of the damn things flies off, I'll be complaining, BIG TIME!
I don't know if I can mention specific boards on this site (Host, if I am breaking Edmunds Laws then I'm sure you'll let me know), but I think I read about a possible door panel fix on either flatratetech.com OR one of BlueOvalnews.com's forums. I'll try to find the posts again and let you know -- it was a while back when I read it though.
Also, my panels DO have a bit of "give" both up and down and side to side. The noise comes and goes (mostly it does NOT make the noise) and is barely audible with the radio on.
Thanks for the link I posted on that board looking for a TSB# but it looks like no posts there since April so probably won't hear. I guess turning up the radio is the answer, but I want this fixed. Paying $50+ for this rig it outta be solid. Love it but hate the noise. I guess everyone has noticed this at some point or another??
My personal belief, any vehicle where you must pay more than $1 for, then you have a right to complain.
Usually I'll make a joke to my VW friends, where they'll state something like "Well if you won a VW at a raffle/contest, you wouldn't take it?" I always tell them "Oh yes I'll take it, if it's free, I don't have an issue with it... I'll just trade it in for something else within the next 10 minutes" :-)
So pertaining to this issue, I say you should complain about it. What's the worse they can say? "We don't seem to replicate the problem?" (Then offer to test drive the vehicle with them).
A similar issue occured with a friends Focus in 2000, she was affected by the warn rotor/brake issue. She thought it was HER, but I had her take it to the dealership, and after enough complaints they replaced it. A few weeks later, a TSB was issued for it.... Had to start somewhere.
Let's remember, Ford isn't going to install something faulty on purpose, if there is an issue, it needs to be brought to their attention so they know there's an issue with that particular part/item. Then they'll study it, analyze it, probably throw in the Six Sigma team in there to rectify it, then move on with a possible TSB, recall, for a permanent fix. But at some point, enough complaints need to be made about it. Therefore, the more the merrier.
"A friend just took his 03 Gator in for this concern, and the spray foam was applied. He wasn't happy about the globs of spray foam sticking out, and told the dealer to remove it, and try something else. Will post when I find out what else they try..."
I don't want them to make things worse trying to fix it, I want a good, permanent, reliable fix. In the 115 degree heat we get here, this stuff will melt and run like ointment too. Think I'll wait a while until I'm comfortable with a TSB that's out. It doesn't bother me that much - I play the stereo pretty loud, usually anyway. Maybe I'm losing my hearing......
I took your advice. When it was time for my first oil change & service, I asked my Service Writer about the cladding noise at high speed, indicated there should be a TSB out on it. He had no clue. Not that that's unusual for him, and he's the senior service writer there.
So, we'll see what, or if they do anything about that little problem and let's hope the cure isn't worse than the original disease......
I will be in for my first service in the next few weeks and will also ask about a TSB# for this door/cladding noise which is very annoying. Hopefully we can all get this resolved...
I just took my 03 Navigator in for its first service and asked the service advisor about the body cladding noise. He immediately knew what I was talking about and told me that Lincoln had a fix for it that should take care of the problem. I did not ask what the fix was, but as long as I cannot tell what they did (no oozing foam please!!!) and the noise disappears, I'm happy... we'll see.
He also stated there is a fix for the side mirrors having a mind of their own at times. This only happened to me once -- the passenger side mirror started going up and down, got stuck, started clicking and popping and then promptly fixed itself. I thought it was an isolated incident until my advisor brought it up.
Also, my dealer is installing "Kleen Wheels" for the brake dust issue. The customer pays for the part and they install it for free during maintenance. I've read somewhere that Lincoln is coming up with a better, free solution later this year, but for those who cannot wait this is a possibility. I am going to wait to see what Lincoln is coming up with as a "free" fix. Also, brake performance and warranty remain guaranteed if Kleen Wheels are installed at the dealership.
I am also having my truck looked at for a slight alignment issue (steering wheel slightly off center, slight vibrations at highway speeds).
I hope to get my truck back later today or tomorrow... I'll let you know what happens.
I think they have lost mine.....It's been 3 full days, no word at all. I'm usually good for about 3 days in the rental (Town Car) before I start wondering if I'm ever going to see my car again. Guess I'll have to call. Hate to be a pest, since they offered to detail the car free for me while it was in..... It's not like I'm being very inconvenienced...
You know, it's just in for the 5000 mile service, and ANT advised me to complain about the loose door cladding noise too. Then, the sales manager called and asked if they could have it a little longer, they would detail the car for me, complimentary, I said of course!
Well, when I go tonight to get it back, not only is it NOT detailed, it's dirtier than when I brought it in, inside & out. AND, now suddenly, the side mirrors are inoperative, both the folding and positioning functions! They worked when I took it in! I'm so pissed!!!
ANT, they didn't put the TSB # on the paperwork on the body cladding, but they sure don't seem to be one bit better than they were. Haven't had a chance to run it to high speed to see if they still rustle. Don't really care that much. I'm much more pissed about the mirrors, and now I have to go back and raise some hell. The cladding did come back with some horrible black fingerprints on them that it took bug & tar remover to get off though, so I know they fiddled with them. Still seem awfully loose to me. They did use FP NUMBER TA-4, Description ADH-NEO TA-4 for parts on them, whatever that is.
3 days for an oil change, and the truck went in better than it came out. Sheeeesh. This is a whole new low, even for these mechanics.
Is this the original dealership where you purchased the vehicle? I would be raising hell as well, I mean if they didn't detail it, then the least they could have done is just not mention it at all than offer something they couldn't promise.
Now, the smart thing they would do for the mirrors is have the part already available. Just watch, you go in and they tell you, you must wait because the part isn't yet available. Murphy's Law.
Yes, this is the original dealer, and the dealer I've spent about $300,000 at since 1989 when I bought my first car there. They're very nice to me, very accomodating, just incompetent. It a question of how incompetent they will be each time I go in, but they will be somewhat incompetent every time, yet nice. Free Town Car loaner, no problem, never a problem getting in, it's just the mechanics are morons.
And, yes I fully expect they won't have the part. That's pretty much normal, and it seems to take a week and a half to get one, like I'm in Samoa or something.....
My Villager has been in the body shop now for 2 weeks getting the front end replaced. The busier they get, and this is the busy season, the less competent they are. But you can bet your [non-permissible content removed], I'll be there at 7:30 in the morning!
The dealer ordered and just installed a driver's seat module to correct my passenger side mirror that had a mind of its own. When I would back up the mirrors would dip as they should, but when I would put it in drive sometimes the passenger side mirror would go all the way down or all the way up and stay there. It only happened every other week or so, so I won't know if it is fixed for awile. The service rep also said they were suppose to have a solution for the brake dust later this year.
If they have the R4S pads available for the navigator they will reduce your stopping distances by several feet and virtually eliminate the brake dust. Lincoln LS sport models have the same problem and the R4S pads have worked great so far and they're not terribly expensive either. Mine were around $75 for the fronts.
My truck came back from 5 month service and other misc "fixes".
Steering wheel misalignment and vibration at high speeds -- fixed!
Body cladding noise: I drove the rig at 80 with the radio and a/c off and it is a particularly windy day around here -- no noise!! I hope it keeps up! They "removed the panels and applied hylomar sealer" -- thankfully there no signs of a fix (dirty panels, smudges, etc.). I tried to to move the panels and this time they did not budge.
Crazy mirror issue: they did something with the "module" -- I cannot decipher what they wrote on the service sheet. Hopefully the mirrors will behave now.
The truck was ready the same day but I could not pick it up so I got it today.
My only gripe: It wasn't washed and the chrome rims were filthy from the tire rotation process.
Overall I am happy with my dealer's service and will email management to let them know.
nvbanker -- it sounds like your dealer's service department requires a "tune up" -- I wish you luck in getting satisfaction. I'm sure you know by now that with these folks, a firm but polite attitude works wonders. Also, a quick note to the GM of the store BOTH when they do a good job and when they screw up may go along way to helping matters.
Akirby: please let us know when you hear of a definitive date for the brake dust fix -- I don't want to mess with my rig's braking system (at my cost) when a free fix is just around the corner.
I only mentioned the replacement pads from Porterfield - I'm not the one who mentioned the service fix.
However - I would be wary of any type of shielding device as they tend to trap heat in the braking system. If they give you a new pad compound that should work but it may also reduce braking power. The advantage of the porterfields is they increase braking power while eliminating the dust at the same time.
Service, as well as dealerships, is something that deals with luck, as well as making yourself known. I've never had to take any of my cars in to have them serviced, but with the experience of taking my friends cars to their dealerships needing service, or dealing with everything to document a possible lemon law suite, I would have to say it all depends on your particular dealership.
I've been to Saturn dealerships, who rate high for customer satisfaction, where they haven't been the best of help. Or even Lexus for that matter, which I THOUGHT they would kiss butt, a bit better than they did, but left dissapointed. So it all varies.
Here in S.FL, specifically suburbs of Ft.Lauderdale, is one Ford dealership, that while being VERY large, have a great service department. Every detail imaginable, they take care of. Even noticed some "wear and tear" items on a friends Explorer, that she quickly addressed and rectified. Asked us if we wanted something to drink, something to munch on while we waited. Etc.
These type of dealerships receive awards from Ford for their customer satisfaction, and built owner loyaly towards the brand, as well as the dealership itself. That's why I say, when you find a dealership that treats you great, stick to them like a great mechanic. Don't expect perfection each time, but take notes when they are bending a bit barkwards for you when they really don't need to, and thank them for it. In the end, they'll remember you and treat you even better in the future.
For example, one local dealership where I send my friends to buy their vehicles at, I'm amazed at what impossible tasks I give them, to find a specific car with specific options, etc. The least I did was send them a gift basket every so often, and sure enough everytime I visit, I get rock bottom prices, and they throw in extras (free service, carpet mats, seat covers) etc. So like every good relationship/marriage, gotta work it a bit.
And for those dealing with a bad dealership, you can always take it to another dealership. I've encountered that was a VW dealership. They didn't want to take care of the problem, I visited 2 other's till the issue was fixed :-) Just takes patience though.
I rarely have a complaint about how I'm treated at this dealership, which is why I stay. Just seems, when they get busy, which happens anytime temperatures are over 100 degrees here, (June, July, August & September) they get slammed with cars and don't or can't staff up for it. The work gets really shoddy.
So, anyway, this morning, went in, explained to my service advisor that the mirrors worked when I took it in, now they don't. Evidently, the inside of the door panels have to come off to take care of the cladding, and he thought they forgot to plug that switch back in. Sounds reasonable. He got me an LS to drive (which I must say, I REALLY enjoy), and with a little luck, I may be back in my dirty truck tonight. I'll let y'all know.
It's an 03 V-8. I love the electronic parking brake! Now, they're talking! Probably trouble prone, but I don't care, that is slick! No more stupid handle in your way. I hope that catches on. What a great car. It's been a while since I rented one, they aren't available in a lot of cities, so I tend to get Town Cars. Still no Navigator.......
Bad news. Just spoke to my service advisor, it's not just a matter of plugging the switch in. He said, "It's a little more complicated than that." His way of saying, they don't have a clue yet why it's not working. Enjoying my LS in the meantime.
Think of it this way, at least your putting milage on another vehicle :-) The electronic parking brake will be phased down onto other Ford products, right now it'll be phased in a few luxury vehicles, then trickle down to a few other Ford vehicles. Mine is a 2000 LS V8, so I'm not sure how this system operates, but It's quite an easy system actually. I believe when placing the vehicle in Park, the system automatically engages, then disengages when placed out of park. Jag's are starting to use this similar system.
And as you stated, it frees up space in the center console. MY only issue is, I've been known to pull the brake level up while doing some dicey manuvers on wet pavement, but normal people wouldn't do such things so it'll work for 99.9% of the drivers.
Does it have the THX stereo system? It's coupled with the Navi system.
No, no THX, unfortunately. No Navi, it has Hertz navi. Great little car. Little too young for me, not enough room in the back seat. But great car. Lincoln can be proud of it.
So, my Nav was finished up today. It was just the switch that wasn't reconnected after all. Mirrors are flying again.
Good to hear then, I hope you gave the LS a serious running. Today I just test drove (for a friend) a Volvo XC90, so I was able to release my frustration on that test drive... Although the salesperson was not comfortable..... ;-)
Comments
"Thanks"
What I like:
The power folding 3rd seats. Very efficient & very convenient. No more muscling the old one out and leaving it in the garage when you went shopping for an antique, OR WORSE, forgetting to leave the seat at home, and having to leave it at the store and come back for it later! Which is a real pain when you're out of state.
The power liftgate. Not necessary, but convenient and sexy.....
The interior design. I was a fan of the 61 Continental when it came out, with the dual cowl design, and this is very reminiscent of it. The wood is beautiful, the steering wheel is the nicest design I've ever seen. I get tons of compliments on the interior of the whole truck. Such an improvement over the old one, and over the Chevy Truck interior in the Escalade, otherwise a nice looking truck.
The independent rear suspension. Makes a huge difference in how the truck drives.
The rack & pinion steering. Again, improves the road feel without requiring more steering effort.
Alpine Sound system. Once again, the best I've ever heard.
Climate Control - a biggie for me as it's so hot where I live. I've always been a fan of Ford Factory Air, but this one has outdone the rest.
Engine - Clearly the smoothest engine/transmission I've ever had. You can barely feel it shift, power is amazing, torque for towing is awesome, and the higher you rev it, the more power and torque you get. So when you really need the power, it's there, it's not running out of steam when the going gets tough.
Size - Plenty of room without being tough to get around town. The perfect combination of size & utility, IMO.
The Air Conditioned seats. What a great invention!
The keypad on the door. So convenient to leave the truck running and staying cool, while being able to lock it up. I don't understand why the other car companies don't get this.
What I don't like: Not much........
Little short on cupholders & open storage in the console. The console shift took some of that away. Not a huge deal, but noticed.
Interior colors - The black is too hot and dark, the tan is too light and gets dirty quickly. Nothing in between.
The power running boards. I tried one with them, opted not to buy them. Cute, but unnecessary and sometimes a bit of a pain.
That's about it. I was very good friends with my old one, it was a marvelous truck. I looked at the Sequoia and the Escalade, but the techology Ford put into this new truck has made the others so old news, there was no comparison......
And other's that have into my Ford vehicles, have noticed it cools down much more quickly then their own vehicles did.
Which vehicles I've noticed A/C's having trouble to cool down, are Civic's. Saturn's. Older Corolla's. Most MB's, and BMW's. Older Land Rover's. All Kia's, Hyundai's. Smaller Mitsu's.
Which Ford vehicle has the slowest to cool system, (little secret of mine) Explorer. Shhhhhh.
FWIW, I have a 94 Explorer, and the air is great
The Town Car I tested was only during the night time, so I can't say how effective that one is. But I did check up on it today with a Ford engineer, and yes it's not AS effective. HE stated a simple trick would be placing it in manual mode, and place it at a lower fan speed, like the one before the highest, and it should be much more effective.
I'm guessing it's sort of like my friends Saturn L300, it's automative, but if you let the system take care of it, it'll blast MUCH air, but it's not very cool, THEN it lowers itself to a slower speed where you feel much more cool air.
As for other Ford owners, in case they aren't award how to make their A/C run more effectively....placing it on MAX A/C, I've seen so many Ford owner's place their A/C button on Norm A/C, which takes the (already hot and humid) outside air, and cools it. Wasting much more gas, so I tell them MAX A/C is by far the best, being it works in the recyculation mode, and overall much more effective. The manual should state this, but sometimes when changing from one brand, to another, some people take their previous brands know-how, and believe the same will be true of their current vehicle.
The Town Car's cowl area (CV and GM as well) is able to accomadate a fairly large fan/blower/compressor unit. The current one, is a few generation's smaller than that of the older 80's, early 90's which I believe at THAT time they were at their largest. But I believe this has been, or will be rectified soon, it's not the only complaint (from what I heard) they have received.
Thanks
Also tell them what you BELIEVE it might be, and what the sound, sounds like. A personal tip, remember your odometer reading. That way you know for sure, if they did test the vehicle out. Do NOT accept answers such as "Well you shouldn't be driving that speed", I've usually replied "Then do not put a speedometer that goes that high" I've actually had that a dealership/service center (Pontiac) tell me that.
Each dealreship will treat you differently, it's best to take it where you bought it from, WHEN possible. Treatment should be better.
Also, I too hear some slight "rustling" around the door panels at high speed. It is not a consistent problem though, so fixing it might be tricky. I read here or somewhere else that Ford has a possible solution by adding some double-sided tape or some foam to the back of the lower outside panels. That same source said the solution does not work very well.
Now I'm going after VW's, mildew laden A/C systems. Being that smells are "subjective", it's a bit harder to convince or prove otherwise... but we are working on it :-)
wwest "Mazda Tribute/ Ford Escape problems" Aug 8, 2002 1:55pm
Steve, Host
70-80 mph? Isn't this the speed limit on the interstate? So no problems should come from this. ANT14 it sounds as if you had that Pontaic a little (just a bit) above the speed limit. LOL!!
Do you remember where you read this??
The Pontiac WAS a Grand Am a friend had. Every other weekend we were at the dealership having to fix, replace, etc. something on that vehicle and I would join her, till one day she just got frustrated and purposely had an accident so she could have that car totalled. (My previous idea of leaving the car doors open in a bad neighborhood, did NOT work).
I believe the Speed limit on the Turnpike is 70 or 75. And 65 around the heavy metro areas such as West Palm Beach, FTL, Miami. Actually I'm not really sure around that. Whatever it is, I add 20 for good luck.
On Navi's you can't really feel how fast your really going. Seems your going slow, till you read your doing 20 over the limit.
Also, my panels DO have a bit of "give" both up and down and side to side. The noise comes and goes (mostly it does NOT make the noise) and is barely audible with the radio on.
http://flatratetech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=0- 01472#000000
Naming another site for the purpose of providing information pertinent to the ongoing discussion is fine. Promoting other sites is not fine.
tidester, host
Usually I'll make a joke to my VW friends, where they'll state something like "Well if you won a VW at a raffle/contest, you wouldn't take it?" I always tell them "Oh yes I'll take it, if it's free, I don't have an issue with it... I'll just trade it in for something else within the next 10 minutes" :-)
So pertaining to this issue, I say you should complain about it. What's the worse they can say? "We don't seem to replicate the problem?" (Then offer to test drive the vehicle with them).
A similar issue occured with a friends Focus in 2000, she was affected by the warn rotor/brake issue. She thought it was HER, but I had her take it to the dealership, and after enough complaints they replaced it. A few weeks later, a TSB was issued for it.... Had to start somewhere.
Let's remember, Ford isn't going to install something faulty on purpose, if there is an issue, it needs to be brought to their attention so they know there's an issue with that particular part/item. Then they'll study it, analyze it, probably throw in the Six Sigma team in there to rectify it, then move on with a possible TSB, recall, for a permanent fix. But at some point, enough complaints need to be made about it. Therefore, the more the merrier.
"A friend just took his 03 Gator in for this concern, and the spray foam was applied. He wasn't happy about the globs of spray foam sticking out, and told the dealer to remove it, and try something else. Will post when I find out what else they try..."
I don't want them to make things worse trying to fix it, I want a good, permanent, reliable fix. In the 115 degree heat we get here, this stuff will melt and run like ointment too. Think I'll wait a while until I'm comfortable with a TSB that's out. It doesn't bother me that much - I play the stereo pretty loud, usually anyway. Maybe I'm losing my hearing......
Wish I had waited for the 2004.....
So, we'll see what, or if they do anything about that little problem and let's hope the cure isn't worse than the original disease......
He also stated there is a fix for the side mirrors having a mind of their own at times. This only happened to me once -- the passenger side mirror started going up and down, got stuck, started clicking and popping and then promptly fixed itself. I thought it was an isolated incident until my advisor brought it up.
Also, my dealer is installing "Kleen Wheels" for the brake dust issue. The customer pays for the part and they install it for free during maintenance. I've read somewhere that Lincoln is coming up with a better, free solution later this year, but for those who cannot wait this is a possibility. I am going to wait to see what Lincoln is coming up with as a "free" fix. Also, brake performance and warranty remain guaranteed if Kleen Wheels are installed at the dealership.
I am also having my truck looked at for a slight alignment issue (steering wheel slightly off center, slight vibrations at highway speeds).
I hope to get my truck back later today or tomorrow... I'll let you know what happens.
Well, when I go tonight to get it back, not only is it NOT detailed, it's dirtier than when I brought it in, inside & out. AND, now suddenly, the side mirrors are inoperative, both the folding and positioning functions! They worked when I took it in! I'm so pissed!!!
ANT, they didn't put the TSB # on the paperwork on the body cladding, but they sure don't seem to be one bit better than they were. Haven't had a chance to run it to high speed to see if they still rustle. Don't really care that much. I'm much more pissed about the mirrors, and now I have to go back and raise some hell. The cladding did come back with some horrible black fingerprints on them that it took bug & tar remover to get off though, so I know they fiddled with them. Still seem awfully loose to me. They did use FP NUMBER TA-4, Description ADH-NEO TA-4 for parts on them, whatever that is.
3 days for an oil change, and the truck went in better than it came out. Sheeeesh. This is a whole new low, even for these mechanics.
Now, the smart thing they would do for the mirrors is have the part already available. Just watch, you go in and they tell you, you must wait because the part isn't yet available. Murphy's Law.
And, yes I fully expect they won't have the part. That's pretty much normal, and it seems to take a week and a half to get one, like I'm in Samoa or something.....
My Villager has been in the body shop now for 2 weeks getting the front end replaced. The busier they get, and this is the busy season, the less competent they are. But you can bet your [non-permissible content removed], I'll be there at 7:30 in the morning!
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com
If they have the R4S pads available for the navigator they will reduce your stopping distances by several feet and virtually eliminate the brake dust. Lincoln LS sport models have the same problem and the R4S pads have worked great so far and they're not terribly expensive either. Mine were around $75 for the fronts.
Steering wheel misalignment and vibration at high speeds -- fixed!
Body cladding noise: I drove the rig at 80 with the radio and a/c off and it is a particularly windy day around here -- no noise!! I hope it keeps up! They "removed the panels and applied hylomar sealer" -- thankfully there no signs of a fix (dirty panels, smudges, etc.). I tried to to move the panels and this time they did not budge.
Crazy mirror issue: they did something with the "module" -- I cannot decipher what they wrote on the service sheet. Hopefully the mirrors will behave now.
The truck was ready the same day but I could not pick it up so I got it today.
My only gripe: It wasn't washed and the chrome rims were filthy from the tire rotation process.
Overall I am happy with my dealer's service and will email management to let them know.
nvbanker -- it sounds like your dealer's service department requires a "tune up" -- I wish you luck in getting satisfaction. I'm sure you know by now that with these folks, a firm but polite attitude works wonders. Also, a quick note to the GM of the store BOTH when they do a good job and when they screw up may go along way to helping matters.
Akirby: please let us know when you hear of a definitive date for the brake dust fix -- I don't want to mess with my rig's braking system (at my cost) when a free fix is just around the corner.
Thanks!!
However - I would be wary of any type of shielding device as they tend to trap heat in the braking system. If they give you a new pad compound that should work but it may also reduce braking power. The advantage of the porterfields is they increase braking power while eliminating the dust at the same time.
Thanks!
I've been to Saturn dealerships, who rate high for customer satisfaction, where they haven't been the best of help. Or even Lexus for that matter, which I THOUGHT they would kiss butt, a bit better than they did, but left dissapointed. So it all varies.
Here in S.FL, specifically suburbs of Ft.Lauderdale, is one Ford dealership, that while being VERY large, have a great service department. Every detail imaginable, they take care of. Even noticed some "wear and tear" items on a friends Explorer, that she quickly addressed and rectified. Asked us if we wanted something to drink, something to munch on while we waited. Etc.
These type of dealerships receive awards from Ford for their customer satisfaction, and built owner loyaly towards the brand, as well as the dealership itself. That's why I say, when you find a dealership that treats you great, stick to them like a great mechanic. Don't expect perfection each time, but take notes when they are bending a bit barkwards for you when they really don't need to, and thank them for it. In the end, they'll remember you and treat you even better in the future.
For example, one local dealership where I send my friends to buy their vehicles at, I'm amazed at what impossible tasks I give them, to find a specific car with specific options, etc. The least I did was send them a gift basket every so often, and sure enough everytime I visit, I get rock bottom prices, and they throw in extras (free service, carpet mats, seat covers) etc. So like every good relationship/marriage, gotta work it a bit.
And for those dealing with a bad dealership, you can always take it to another dealership. I've encountered that was a VW dealership. They didn't want to take care of the problem, I visited 2 other's till the issue was fixed :-) Just takes patience though.
So, anyway, this morning, went in, explained to my service advisor that the mirrors worked when I took it in, now they don't. Evidently, the inside of the door panels have to come off to take care of the cladding, and he thought they forgot to plug that switch back in. Sounds reasonable. He got me an LS to drive (which I must say, I REALLY enjoy), and with a little luck, I may be back in my dirty truck tonight. I'll let y'all know.
And as you stated, it frees up space in the center console. MY only issue is, I've been known to pull the brake level up while doing some dicey manuvers on wet pavement, but normal people wouldn't do such things so it'll work for 99.9% of the drivers.
Does it have the THX stereo system? It's coupled with the Navi system.
So, my Nav was finished up today. It was just the switch that wasn't reconnected after all. Mirrors are flying again.