We're considering either a CR-V EX or Civic EX mainly for safety reasons (our Sentra doesn't even have airbags). Test drove both, and the CR-V seems to have a higher quality feeling interior and ride, plus it would be safer given the extra weight. However, we would be parking it on the street in the city every day, which could be a problem with the longer length and decreased rear visibility of the CR-V. What is your experience with maneuverability, visibility and ability to parallel park for the CR-V? Any thoughts about CR-V vs. Civic? What are the latest prices for both in the Bay Area? Thanks!
Juice - Honda was quite impressed with the reaction that the Open Air concept received. While I'm sure a production version would be much more tame, Honda was giving the notion serious consideration.
IMHO, they will wait a few years before introducing it. They need to the Element to cover their bottom end, before they can take the CR-V closer to the upscale market. They also have production and distribution issues to work out. With the US getting CR-Vs from two different factories, they'll have to work out allocations. Should they have them all produced in Saitama and ship only those to the entire US, or have them built in both Saitama and Swindon and keep the existing logistics?
If they do it right, the CR-V will become more of a Highlander fighter than it already is. Some folks cross-shop the two here in the NA market already. Over in Japan (where the CR-V has NAV, VSA, and other gadgetry) the CR-V and the Highlander are almost direct competition.
Wei - The only problem I know that could cause such a thing is related to the ignition system. Honda recently issued a recall on the subject. However, the '02 model does not use the same part and it shouldn't start happening until well after 75K miles. So I don't think that is the answer. Let us know what the dealer says!
Capybara - Sounds like something you'll have to try during a test drive. Visibility out the back of the new CR-V isn't as good as it was in the old model. It isn't bad, but it isn't good either. I would expect that the Civic would be easier to park.
The Civic is plenty safe in it's own right. If you don't need the extra cargo capacity of the CR-V, I would save a few bucks and get the Civic. It gets much better gas mileage, too. However, if you're going to be hauling people and stuff, you can't beat the CR-V.
Another option would be to check on the Subaru Forester. It has a solid reputation with the IIHS crash tests and the NHTSA tests are pretty good. In crowded spots, it should feel like a cross between the CR-V and the Civic.
BTW, isn't a "Cabybara" a pug-like varmint from either South America or Africa? No offense, intended, I'm just trying to sort out my discovery channel trivia.
I can understand the comparisons with the Highlander, and in fact my wife test drove both, back-to-back even. But honestly, IMO they are in different leagues.
The CR-V is spunkier, more fun, lighter on its feet. My wife preferred the CR-V, mostly because of the manual tranny it offers. It's roomy but still feels like a compact (I realize how subjective that sounds).
The Highlander feels more substantial, like it's carved from one piece. I preferred the HL, but that may be because I have the "fun" aspect covered by my other vehicles (Miata, Forester).
Maybe if the Open Air has a little more sound insulation, plus bigger tires, it would narrow the gap. The HL is far from perfect, too, people on those threads have plenty of suggestions for improvements.
The Honda dealership technician called me today. I tried my best to remember what he said. Basically the VTEC solenoid of the CRV need to be cleaned, and it looks like the solenoid is not the updated one when the CRV was out of the factory. But no need to replace it.
I don't know what a solenoid is. Someone mentioned it here before. The technician said it's a device allowing fuel enter the VTEC engine.
I called the dealership again. The solenoid valve on my car is an updated version. So no need to replace. But somehow it got contaminated for some unknown reason. The technicians are still investigating the cause.
I'm on the fence right now. Civic would certainly do the job and is very practical, but it feels much cheaper and flimsier than the CR-V and I'm worried about it being built in the US as opposed to the CR-V built in Japan. The CR-V is only 4 inches longer than the Civic. However, it's also only 2 inches shorter than our RX300, which feels huge! The Forester is an interesting idea, but I think I prefer the reliability of Honda & Toyotas. I'm not sure why CR gave the 2001Civic a black checkmark and only average predicted reliability though.
Capybaras are the world's largest rodent. They are up to 2 ft high and 4 ft long, 100 lbs., and live up to 10 years. They look like a huge guinea pig, have webbed feet and swim. Here is a picture from <http://www.rebsig.com/capybara>
Capybara's natural enemies are pumas and jaguars. They are supposedly eaten for Lent by South Americans too. Yes, I know the CR-V and Civic have the same turning circle and approximate size. That's why I'm considering the CR-V even though I don't *need* another SUV. It just seems like a nicer car and better value for the money. Also I feel like a teenager driving the Civic.
A solenoid is the gizmo that operates the flippers and bouncers on a pinball machine. They usually work fine but sometimes the contacts that tell them to open and close get corroded and you have to take the glass off and bend and clean them.
Solenoids also control the water valves in your washing machine.
Oh yeah, cars use them too I guess (I think the ones that operate my door locks are called actuators now). The ones I used to play with back in my misspent youth were rather large electro/mechanical switches - a cylinder surrounding a rod that would jump back and forth when you applied the juice and created a magnetic current. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Yeah, that's the little guy I was thinking of! They're pretty cute for a swamp critter.
Actually, some of the new CR-Vs are built in the UK, not Saitama in Japan. I think you said you're in the bay area, though. West coast CR-Vs should be from Japan.
The Civic got a low rating in CR because of first year issues. Every vehicle has a few. It looks like the Civic had plenty. The CR-V is also working through some initial bugs, but not as many as the Civic (at least that's the way it looks from my perch).
I'm afraid you may awaken the age old war between Subaru and Honda folks with a comparison between the CR-V and the Forester. Suffice it to say, you aren't likely to have mechanical trouble with either vehicle. Subarus don't have the same reputation as Honda and Toyota, but most of their products are just as good.
Take a look at that CR magazine and look up the '02 and '01 Forester. You'll see it scores very well. It's undergone a model upgrade, just like the CR-V and Civic, so it may have the same type of first year issues. The new design is the '03 model.
JD Powers just listed the Forester (old model) as only one step lower than the new CR-V in their initial quality rankings. In past years, they've been neck and neck in these ratings.
I've got a Protege and my Parent's have the CR-V. Now, I'd consider the Protege and Civic to be pretty close in terms of interior, ride, size, etc.
What I like about the CR-V: -It is nice inside. I like the controls and it doesn't feel cheap. My Pro doesn't either, but when I looked at Civics, I just thought the interior was boring and outdated.
-Increased vision - Since you're sitting up higher, you get a much better view of the road. Being in a car, it's hard to see the lights at time with big SUV's in front of you.
Now the handling has to goto the Civic. In terms of ease of parking, you're gonna have a much easier time in a car than an SUV. Also, when I test-drove the CR-V before my parents got it, I took some pretty agressive corners. Definitely a lot of body roll in the V.
The difference in the engines (160 HP CR-V vs. 115/127 HP Civic) is almost negligable because the CR-V weighs so more than the Civic. Maybe you'd notice a difference when hauling lots of weight, but in my test drive I couldn't tell that I had 160 HP under me. Of course, I was driving an automatic at the time.
So I really think you have to see what you want. If you want more space for hauling stuff, then the V is what you want. If you're only after maneuverability than go with the Civic. But really, I'd rather live with trying to park the V than live in a Civic...but that's just IMO.
RSX is another interesting idea. My husband had an 89 Integra before we got the RX. It had a suprising amount of space for cargo. It ran fine but there were a lot of niggling things that went wrong: air conditioner and radio broke, tailpipe fell off, paint around the windows peeled off, clunky transmission, poor shocks (car bottomed out with any little dip in the road), always barely passing smog checks...we were happy to trade it in. I'm sure they've made a lot of improvements in the car since then (I hope). My sisters both have 2001 CR-V's and they love them. We all went through a Sentra phase and now we may be moving onto the CR-V if I get one too.
When you mentioned value a few posts earlier, actually the first thing that popped into my mind was that the CR-V is actually NOT good value if you compare it to a sedan in terms of content to $. That RT4WD systems soaks up a lot of bucks. So if you don't need the 4WD, the cargo room, or the ride height, you may find that V offers a very Civic-like driving experience for thousands more. Now I agree that the Civic does have a college student/economy feel to it. So let's say you move up to an Accord. Even if you compared to V to a I4 Accord (coupe or sedan)SE, You will find that the Accord offers much more "value". I know the Accord is longer, which may affect ease of parking, but the Accord's visibility is so good I would rate it on a par with the V, if not better, in terms of maneuverability.
As long as we're trading pics of critters, this is my avatar from another forum.
The Accord is another good suggestion. I dunno if the "youthful" appearance of the Matrix is a problem, but that would have reasonable quality, good cargo space, and is relatively small. I haven't been in one, so I can't speak to the feel of the interior. The Civic Si would be another.
Good grief! I could keep a whole dealership chain in business if I had enough money.
When I had my Subaru I got these neat magazines from Subaru and I would watched the Rally races on Speedvision where Soobs kicked butt.So I felt like I was in a club.Subaru is heavy into public relations whereas Honda just makes a good car like a refrigerator,no personality.As for the car the exhaust heat shields rattled,the clutch cable went bad,and the cruise control switch on the brake pedal broke.All this at 40k miles.My CRV is practical and reliable.If I had to I could live out of it.Maybe someone will convert a CRV to a micro RV like the old VW Camper Van.
As it so happens, the Accord and CR-V have historically had similar MSRPs and weigh practically the same too. However, with the Accord in a "lame duck" year (new Accord coming in '03), it is mighty easy to pick up a good deal on a current Accord, as well as special financing. (One local dealer here (Houston) was even running radio spots saying that they were selling Accords for the same price as Civics.)
Here's an interesting question: Can anyone foresee Honda re-introducing a station wagon into its lineup? Or will this market be left to the CR-V and future "crossover utility" vehicles? An Accord wagon with the 200-hp V6 would be an interesting product IMHO.
On another crv board, some people are talking about the noise when you first apply the brakes on '02 EX, after backing up or going forward. They describe it as a clunk and say should take it to the dealer, with one person saying there would be a TSB issued. I hear this also, but thought it was the ABS self test. Does anyone know anything about this and what the 'clunk' sound really is?
As I mentioned here a few times my new EX/Auto made a bang/clang once only after each start as you accelerated to around 5/10 mph or near the 1/2 gear transition (never occurs again on that drive until you reastarted again). Took it in finally to Honda dealer and they put it up. The clang was coming from the ABS brakes. There is a self test done on the ABS each time you start car and initailly accelerate. Actually as you accelerate, if you keep one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake as you go beyond 5, 10, 15 mph and beyond the 1/2 gear transition, you do not here the clang, but as soon as you release the brake, the clang occurs. The techie had not heard it before on a CRV so decided to take 3 new EX CRVs on the lot out to see if they made the same clang noise, or was it just my vehicle. All 3 CRVs also made the clang noise. You may not here the bang if you have the radio on your keys make clings. But once you here it, you do notice it thereafter.
Well, I'm South American (Brazilian, more specifically) and I can tell you I've never eaten any rodents! We eat sea food for Lent.
But I can picture Yosemite Sam after it guns ablaze, yelling "Come back here ya darn varmint!". ;-)
FWIW, CR had Toyota and Subaru tied for tops in reliability overall, with Honda and Nissan tied for 3rd. Plus the Forester easily bests the Civic (the basis for the new CR-V) and RAV4 in reliability. The CR-V was too new to show up in their 2002 Annual Auto Issue.
JD Powers ranks it RAV4, then CR-V 2nd, then Forester tied for 3rd. It's pretty safe to say any of these are reliable, but remember one key thing - Toyota and Subaru offer powertrain warranties that are 67% longer. So call it a draw, maybe, but I wouldn't give the Honda the edge here.
Of course there are exceptions. Tom's Subie seemed about as reliable as Capybara's husband's Acura.
I'd suggest checking out the Protoge5, the Matrix, the Outback Sport, and best of all, the WRX wagon. For about $22k you combine the practicality of a wagon body style with performance levels equal to the RSX Type R from overseas markets. They sell for $22k in the DC area, check out fitzmall.com. That's about what a CR-V EX costs.
I'll leave it at that. If capybara is interested in a Subie, there are plenty of threads with friendly folks ready and willing to help. Part of the cult-like comraderie Tom was talking about.
Thanks everyone for your alternative suggestions. We will be sure to check out the Matrix/Corolla and the Forester and WRX wagon (the side airbags only come in the WRX, not the regular TS). Although when I showed my husband a picture of the WRX wagon (which I think looks OK except for the hood scoop), his first reaction was "Jesus, that's a butt ugly car!" I thought he would like the sportiness. I was surprised that Impreza got an IIHS best pick and that Subaru has such good reliability ratings. I guess I just had this image in my head of the brand quality. Camry would probably be my pick for sedan if size weren't an issue--Accord and Camry are just too long to fit in the parking spots here. The RAV4 is out because of no side airbags. And the Civic Si is not an option because it comes in manual only, and I'm not willing to learn stick in San Francisco! ; ) I have the feeling I'll still come back to the V in the end. PS Ateixiera, I'm glad you don't eat capybaras. I like them : )
After having looked at most of the cars currently available in the USA, I finally decided to trade our '95 Passat GLX Wagon (thank the Lord!) for an '02 Red EX. I live in Suburban Sacramento and the best local deal I could find was MSRP less destination charge. The combination of content, practicality and Honda reputation won me over.
I've noticed from some of the posts that the air pressure needs to be adjusted (to 26?). Any other essential tidbits for the new owner? When are y'all doing the first oil change? What to you think about Scotch-Guarding the interior cloth?
He he, the WRX does get love-it-or-hate-it reactions, but it's your car, right? Put him behind the wheel and he may change his mind, anyway. Plus there is a rumor of a face-lift, and soon.
All 2003 Forester get side airbags that also protect the head, and the manual has a hill holder clutch that even makes driving in SF tolerable with the 5 speed. Both are exclusives.
But we drove a CR-V and liked it, too. They are peppy and quite roomy. Good luck, and in the end ignore all of us and pick what YOU like, don't even let your husband change your mind.
I read a different article about that. They used to make Imprezas there. Funny to note that every where in the world except in the US, Impreza sales are down. It weighs more and the looks are more controversial than the last one.
In the US, the turbo arrival actually made sales double what they were before. They actually had to cut Forester production in Gunma to make enough WRXs to meet demand.
Funny what 227hp will do for you, eh?
I bet Honda will build Citys in that plant, the Impreza was probably wrong for that market (too big, AWD not valued).
i just finally got a confirmed ship date on my silver ex it was shipped may 28th (japan) my dealer tells me any day now, i say he is off by about 2 more weeks. its been 2 months already, anybody have a good idea, dealer is in northeast pa.
I've been to San Fran a couple of times. I don't recall the parking spaces there being particularly tight, at least not to the point of an Accord or a Camry not fitting. I've always thought here in Vancouver we have some of the stingiest parking spaces around!
Ateizeira - don't forget the black beans and rice, some feijoada and some guarana to wash it all down. Haven't really heard the clunk noise, possibly it is less noticeable on some cars. I did get a ride (back seat) in a WRX. They should have made it a two seater, there's no room for an adult back there, kids ok. Just a little update on my 'V', so far no problems at 2300 miles. Gas mileage around town has be very good, just over 22mpg on a '02 auto EX. Have put the cargo area to good use with bags of topsoil, peat moss, landscaping stone, but nothing like the grass monster of GG.
It's interesting to read Town Hall and note what trends occur from week to week. While you guys are eating rodents, the Forester people are into cooking rabbits: casecom2 "Subaru Forester" Jun 11, 2002 11:21pm
Never a dull moment :-) Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
after checking out the '03 forester and concluding that they didn't grow the backseat enough for my taller than avg. family, took the plunge on the crv. silver, LX.
if anyone needs scoop on a colorado front range area dealer that did a deal at (slightly) below msrp, let me know.
500 miles, and happy thus far. first tank weighed in at 27 mpg in mostly highway driving...very happy with that!!
a couple of questions for y'all. on acceleration, there is a bit of a seat "rock" backward. first i thought the recline was not seated properly, but have felt it several times. i know a couple of months ago, some new '02 crv owners were complaining of a drivers seat rocking issue. i seem to recall that a TSB was put out on it. questions:
1. can anyone else who had the seat rocking problem briefly describe what they were experiencing?
2. can anyone refer me to the location of the TSB so i can check out what the fix is?
my crv was manufactured in april, was thinking that honda would have fixed the issue, but maybe not.
Well, mine has started to rock. Have about 5000 miles. Have noticed a slight movement for a while but today it got much worse. Mine is supposed to be outside the VIN range. Going to dealer in morning. Also, to re-fix the driver's auto window - still makes a scratching sound when moving. And headliner above driver's visor is loose and rattles/squeaks. Still love my crv - great to drive. Gas mileage is about 22 city, 25 highway but has been down some since running A/C more - about 1-2 mpg less. Have found that running tires at 26-28 psi is causing sides to wear more than what I've seen on other cars I've had. Has anyone seen that? When increase psi to 30 or more, the ride can be pretty rough. Not sure if it is the 'cheaper' Bridgestones or the psi. Any suggestions?
Ok, I posted this over in the "problems and solutions" board, but I know this area gets more traffic, so please pardon the "spam" as that's not my intent.
My parent's '02 CR-V LX (CDN) is less than a month old. They've been complaining about a strange buzzing sound coming from the rear of the car. I was sitting in it today and I heard it myself. To me it sounds like it's coming from some part of the suspension in the rear. My dad says it only makes the sound while driving in town and never while at highway speed.
It's really noticeable over bumps and when turning, but can occur when driving over smooth pavement and/or going straight.
I posted similar tire wear experiences at low psi a while back on this thread. Keeping my tires at manufacturer-recommended pressure (26 - 28 psi) produced extreme cupping (uneven tread wear, esp. on outer edges) and useless tires by about 15,000 mi, which I thought was ridiculous for new tires. Yes, they were Bridgestones on a lightweight mini-SUV (not a CR-V). I have kept my subsequent tires at pressures ranging from 32 - 35 ever since and I have gotten very good wear on 2 different sets. I think manufacturers and dealers are crazy to recommend less than 30 psi, unless they are in cahoots with the tire industry!
Note: I don't mind a stiff ride in exchange for great tire wear. Folks who want a softer ride may be willing to go the other way in a trade-off.
My CR-V has the clunk from the wheels when switching direction of travel right at the startup in each direction. Aren't the brake pads sorta "floating" under tension? The clunk appears to be the very slight lateral travel of the pad within its mounting bracket, coming off as a loud clunk.
Hey all, I posted the following gripe a few weeks ago in another forum, but thought I'd b*itch about it here too The pic below from the C&D 5 Best Trucks article (mentioned above by Diploid) reminded me of this "problem". BTW, the 5 Best Trucks article is now available on-line at THIS link.
Gripe: Is it just me, or does the rear wiper seem awfully stingy in its range of motion. On mine, it only goes from the 3 o'clock postiton up and around to maybe 10:30, instead of going all the way to the 9:00 position. I first noticed this when driving in some rain a few days ago and saw that a large part of the window goes unwiped, making it hard to see out the back.
Yes, I agree - the wiper does not cover enough of the window - what was Honda thinking?
I took my '02 EX into dealer this morning for rocking seat - service manager told me he had NOT heard of TSB for '02 models, only '01. I didn't take a copy of the TSB with me however. Will see what they do!! Also, asked about tire pressure - he said he had same car as me and used 32 psi. I mentioned the ride was rougher at that pressure and he agreed.
Protege: You probably have eliminated this, but the seat belt for the center rear passenger can make a strange noise if the belt is not stored properly.
"I wonder if the JDM models wipe the other side, since they are RHD?"
Actually, I think that is the reason. That same wiper pattern on a JDM car would clear the driver's side of the window. So the design makes sense for the JDM cars, but not the US. It's the same story as the swinging door. Lazy buggers.
Now for something completely different... The tire gods hate me (yeah, yeah, and so does everybody else). I punctured a relatively brand new tread this morning on the way to work. Thank goodness Honda provides a full-size spare, but this is the third time I've had to use it in just over three years! I'm pretty sure this one can be fixed, but it does make me kinda glad that I didn't opt for the more expensive tires (trying to keep a positive perspective, here ).
Muckyduck - Most owners run below 30psi without any unusual tire wear. Is the wear consistent from front to back? (Or have you already rotated them and can no longer tell?)
Comments
like this till well over 100K miles.Maybe bad gas?
Wei: sounds odd. I would have tried to reset the engine computer by disconnecting the battery.
I wonder if it's more serious though.
I hope you had AAA, because IIRC Honda does not offer roadside assistance.
-juice
IMHO, they will wait a few years before introducing it. They need to the Element to cover their bottom end, before they can take the CR-V closer to the upscale market. They also have production and distribution issues to work out. With the US getting CR-Vs from two different factories, they'll have to work out allocations. Should they have them all produced in Saitama and ship only those to the entire US, or have them built in both Saitama and Swindon and keep the existing logistics?
If they do it right, the CR-V will become more of a Highlander fighter than it already is. Some folks cross-shop the two here in the NA market already. Over in Japan (where the CR-V has NAV, VSA, and other gadgetry) the CR-V and the Highlander are almost direct competition.
Wei - The only problem I know that could cause such a thing is related to the ignition system. Honda recently issued a recall on the subject. However, the '02 model does not use the same part and it shouldn't start happening until well after 75K miles. So I don't think that is the answer. Let us know what the dealer says!
Capybara - Sounds like something you'll have to try during a test drive. Visibility out the back of the new CR-V isn't as good as it was in the old model. It isn't bad, but it isn't good either. I would expect that the Civic would be easier to park.
The Civic is plenty safe in it's own right. If you don't need the extra cargo capacity of the CR-V, I would save a few bucks and get the Civic. It gets much better gas mileage, too. However, if you're going to be hauling people and stuff, you can't beat the CR-V.
Another option would be to check on the Subaru Forester. It has a solid reputation with the IIHS crash tests and the NHTSA tests are pretty good. In crowded spots, it should feel like a cross between the CR-V and the Civic.
BTW, isn't a "Cabybara" a pug-like varmint from either South America or Africa? No offense, intended, I'm just trying to sort out my discovery channel trivia.
The CR-V is spunkier, more fun, lighter on its feet. My wife preferred the CR-V, mostly because of the manual tranny it offers. It's roomy but still feels like a compact (I realize how subjective that sounds).
The Highlander feels more substantial, like it's carved from one piece. I preferred the HL, but that may be because I have the "fun" aspect covered by my other vehicles (Miata, Forester).
Maybe if the Open Air has a little more sound insulation, plus bigger tires, it would narrow the gap. The HL is far from perfect, too, people on those threads have plenty of suggestions for improvements.
-juice
The Honda dealership technician called me today. I tried my best to remember what he said. Basically the VTEC solenoid of the CRV need to be cleaned, and it looks like the solenoid is not the updated one when the CRV was out of the factory. But no need to replace it.
I don't know what a solenoid is. Someone mentioned it here before. The technician
said it's a device allowing fuel enter the VTEC
engine.
The car will be ready tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
Wei
The solenoid valve on my car is an updated
version. So no need to replace. But somehow
it got contaminated for some unknown reason.
The technicians are still investigating the
cause.
Sorry for the previous incorrect information.
Wei
I'm on the fence right now. Civic would certainly do the job and is very practical, but it feels much cheaper and flimsier than the CR-V and I'm worried about it being built in the US as opposed to the CR-V built in Japan. The CR-V is only 4 inches longer than the Civic. However, it's also only 2 inches shorter than our RX300, which feels huge! The Forester is an interesting idea, but I think I prefer the reliability of Honda & Toyotas. I'm not sure why CR gave the 2001Civic a black checkmark and only average predicted reliability though.
Capybaras are the world's largest rodent. They are up to 2 ft high and 4 ft long, 100 lbs., and live up to 10 years. They look like a huge guinea pig, have webbed feet and swim. Here is a picture from <http://www.rebsig.com/capybara>
Did you know that the CR-V is built on the Civic platform? Not sure how that really relates, but I had to say CR-V somewhere in my post
Yes, I know the CR-V and Civic have the same turning circle and approximate size. That's why I'm considering the CR-V even though I don't *need* another SUV. It just seems like a nicer car and better value for the money. Also I feel like a teenager driving the Civic.
Solenoids also control the water valves in your washing machine.
Oh yeah, cars use them too I guess (I think the ones that operate my door locks are called actuators now). The ones I used to play with back in my misspent youth were rather large electro/mechanical switches - a cylinder surrounding a rod that would jump back and forth when you applied the juice and created a magnetic current.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Actually, some of the new CR-Vs are built in the UK, not Saitama in Japan. I think you said you're in the bay area, though. West coast CR-Vs should be from Japan.
The Civic got a low rating in CR because of first year issues. Every vehicle has a few. It looks like the Civic had plenty. The CR-V is also working through some initial bugs, but not as many as the Civic (at least that's the way it looks from my perch).
I'm afraid you may awaken the age old war between Subaru and Honda folks with a comparison between the CR-V and the Forester. Suffice it to say, you aren't likely to have mechanical trouble with either vehicle. Subarus don't have the same reputation as Honda and Toyota, but most of their products are just as good.
Take a look at that CR magazine and look up the '02 and '01 Forester. You'll see it scores very well. It's undergone a model upgrade, just like the CR-V and Civic, so it may have the same type of first year issues. The new design is the '03 model.
JD Powers just listed the Forester (old model) as only one step lower than the new CR-V in their initial quality rankings. In past years, they've been neck and neck in these ratings.
What I like about the CR-V:
-It is nice inside. I like the controls and it doesn't feel cheap. My Pro doesn't either, but when I looked at Civics, I just thought the interior was boring and outdated.
-Increased vision - Since you're sitting up higher, you get a much better view of the road. Being in a car, it's hard to see the lights at time with big SUV's in front of you.
Now the handling has to goto the Civic. In terms of ease of parking, you're gonna have a much easier time in a car than an SUV. Also, when I test-drove the CR-V before my parents got it, I took some pretty agressive corners. Definitely a lot of body roll in the V.
The difference in the engines (160 HP CR-V vs. 115/127 HP Civic) is almost negligable because the CR-V weighs so more than the Civic. Maybe you'd notice a difference when hauling lots of weight, but in my test drive I couldn't tell that I had 160 HP under me. Of course, I was driving an automatic at the time.
So I really think you have to see what you want. If you want more space for hauling stuff, then the V is what you want. If you're only after maneuverability than go with the Civic. But really, I'd rather live with trying to park the V than live in a Civic...but that's just IMO.
My sisters both have 2001 CR-V's and they love them. We all went through a Sentra phase and now we may be moving onto the CR-V if I get one too.
The Accord is another good suggestion. I dunno if the "youthful" appearance of the Matrix is a problem, but that would have reasonable quality, good cargo space, and is relatively small. I haven't been in one, so I can't speak to the feel of the interior. The Civic Si would be another.
Good grief! I could keep a whole dealership chain in business if I had enough money.
from Subaru and I would watched the Rally races
on Speedvision where Soobs kicked butt.So I felt like I was in a club.Subaru is heavy into public
relations whereas Honda just makes a good car
like a refrigerator,no personality.As for the
car the exhaust heat shields rattled,the clutch
cable went bad,and the cruise control switch on
the brake pedal broke.All this at 40k miles.My
CRV is practical and reliable.If I had to I could
live out of it.Maybe someone will convert a CRV to
a micro RV like the old VW Camper Van.
Here's an interesting question: Can anyone foresee Honda re-introducing a station wagon into its lineup? Or will this market be left to the CR-V and future "crossover utility" vehicles? An Accord wagon with the 200-hp V6 would be an interesting product IMHO.
my new EX/Auto made a bang/clang once only after each start as you accelerated to around 5/10 mph or near the 1/2 gear transition (never occurs again on that drive until you reastarted again).
Took it in finally to Honda dealer and they put it up. The clang was coming from the ABS brakes. There is a self test done on the ABS each time you start car and initailly accelerate.
Actually as you accelerate, if you keep one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake as you go beyond 5, 10, 15 mph and beyond the 1/2 gear transition, you do not here the clang, but as soon as you release the brake, the clang occurs.
The techie had not heard it before on a CRV so decided to take 3 new EX CRVs on the lot out to see if they made the same clang noise, or was it just my vehicle. All 3 CRVs also made the clang noise. You may not here the bang if you have the radio on your keys make clings. But once you here it, you do notice it thereafter.
Give it a try and post observations.
But I can picture Yosemite Sam after it guns ablaze, yelling "Come back here ya darn varmint!". ;-)
FWIW, CR had Toyota and Subaru tied for tops in reliability overall, with Honda and Nissan tied for 3rd. Plus the Forester easily bests the Civic (the basis for the new CR-V) and RAV4 in reliability. The CR-V was too new to show up in their 2002 Annual Auto Issue.
JD Powers ranks it RAV4, then CR-V 2nd, then Forester tied for 3rd. It's pretty safe to say any of these are reliable, but remember one key thing - Toyota and Subaru offer powertrain warranties that are 67% longer. So call it a draw, maybe, but I wouldn't give the Honda the edge here.
Of course there are exceptions. Tom's Subie seemed about as reliable as Capybara's husband's Acura.
I'd suggest checking out the Protoge5, the Matrix, the Outback Sport, and best of all, the WRX wagon. For about $22k you combine the practicality of a wagon body style with performance levels equal to the RSX Type R from overseas markets. They sell for $22k in the DC area, check out fitzmall.com. That's about what a CR-V EX costs.
I'll leave it at that. If capybara is interested in a Subie, there are plenty of threads with friendly folks ready and willing to help. Part of the cult-like comraderie Tom was talking about.
-juice
Camry would probably be my pick for sedan if size weren't an issue--Accord and Camry are just too long to fit in the parking spots here. The RAV4 is out because of no side airbags. And the Civic Si is not an option because it comes in manual only, and I'm not willing to learn stick in San Francisco! ; )
I have the feeling I'll still come back to the V in the end.
PS Ateixiera, I'm glad you don't eat capybaras. I like them : )
I've noticed from some of the posts that the air pressure needs to be adjusted (to 26?). Any other essential tidbits for the new owner? When are y'all doing the first oil change? What to you think about Scotch-Guarding the interior cloth?
Thanks!
All 2003 Forester get side airbags that also protect the head, and the manual has a hill holder clutch that even makes driving in SF tolerable with the 5 speed. Both are exclusives.
But we drove a CR-V and liked it, too. They are peppy and quite roomy. Good luck, and in the end ignore all of us and pick what YOU like, don't even let your husband change your mind.
-juice
LOL! Just an interesting news bit. Honda is buying a Soob plant that wasn't doing so well.
In the US, the turbo arrival actually made sales double what they were before. They actually had to cut Forester production in Gunma to make enough WRXs to meet demand.
Funny what 227hp will do for you, eh?
I bet Honda will build Citys in that plant, the Impreza was probably wrong for that market (too big, AWD not valued).
-juice
my dealer tells me any day now, i say he is off by about 2 more weeks. its been 2 months
already, anybody have a good idea, dealer is in northeast pa.
Haven't really heard the clunk noise, possibly it is less noticeable on some cars.
I did get a ride (back seat) in a WRX. They should have made it a two seater, there's no room for an adult back there, kids ok.
Just a little update on my 'V', so far no problems at 2300 miles. Gas mileage around town has be very good, just over 22mpg on a '02 auto EX. Have put the cargo area to good use with bags of topsoil, peat moss, landscaping stone, but nothing like the grass monster of GG.
casecom2 "Subaru Forester" Jun 11, 2002 11:21pm
Never a dull moment :-)
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
if anyone needs scoop on a colorado front range area dealer that did a deal at (slightly) below msrp, let me know.
500 miles, and happy thus far. first tank weighed in at 27 mpg in mostly highway driving...very happy with that!!
a couple of questions for y'all. on acceleration, there is a bit of a seat "rock" backward. first i thought the recline was not seated properly, but have felt it several times. i know a couple of months ago, some new '02 crv owners were complaining of a drivers seat rocking issue. i seem to recall that a TSB was put out on it. questions:
1. can anyone else who had the seat rocking problem briefly describe what they were experiencing?
2. can anyone refer me to the location of the TSB so i can check out what the fix is?
my crv was manufactured in april, was thinking that honda would have fixed the issue, but maybe not.
thanks!
Still love my crv - great to drive. Gas mileage is about 22 city, 25 highway but has been down some since running A/C more - about 1-2 mpg less. Have found that running tires at 26-28 psi is causing sides to wear more than what I've seen on other cars I've had. Has anyone seen that? When increase psi to 30 or more, the ride can be pretty rough. Not sure if it is the 'cheaper' Bridgestones or the psi. Any suggestions?
My parent's '02 CR-V LX (CDN) is less than a month old. They've been complaining about a strange buzzing sound coming from the rear of the car. I was sitting in it today and I heard it myself. To me it sounds like it's coming from some part of the suspension in the rear. My dad says it only makes the sound while driving in town and never while at highway speed.
It's really noticeable over bumps and when turning, but can occur when driving over smooth pavement and/or going straight.
Any ideas?
Note: I don't mind a stiff ride in exchange for great tire wear. Folks who want a softer ride may be willing to go the other way in a trade-off.
Gripe: Is it just me, or does the rear wiper seem awfully stingy in its range of motion. On mine, it only goes from the 3 o'clock postiton up and around to maybe 10:30, instead of going all the way to the 9:00 position. I first noticed this when driving in some rain a few days ago and saw that a large part of the window goes unwiped, making it hard to see out the back.
I took my '02 EX into dealer this morning for rocking seat - service manager told me he had NOT heard of TSB for '02 models, only '01. I didn't take a copy of the TSB with me however. Will see what they do!!
Also, asked about tire pressure - he said he had same car as me and used 32 psi. I mentioned the ride was rougher at that pressure and he agreed.
WRX wagons have a little more legroom and a lot more headroom, plus they cost $500 less. Maybe there is such a thing as a free lunch.
Steve: question is, which tastes more like chicken? ;-)
Protege: lube the sway bar bushings with lithium grease (not oil based, which is bad for the rubber). Some times they squeek.
-juice
("BBM" is "before bunny mania" for you non-Subaru fans).
How about a plug for new editorial content today?
Understanding Extended Warranties
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Actually, I think that is the reason. That same wiper pattern on a JDM car would clear the driver's side of the window. So the design makes sense for the JDM cars, but not the US. It's the same story as the swinging door. Lazy buggers.
Now for something completely different... The tire gods hate me (yeah, yeah, and so does everybody else).
Muckyduck - Most owners run below 30psi without any unusual tire wear. Is the wear consistent from front to back? (Or have you already rotated them and can no longer tell?)
Glad you're OK, though, after 3 blowouts. Yikes.
-juice