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Jim Press EVP of Toyota Motor Sales announced that Toyota is looking into some new areas for their SUVs:
1. Body on frame SUV below the 4Runner in size. It might use the HiLux frame or a shrunken version of the new 4Runner frame.
2. Off-road SUV smaller than the RAV4, based on the Matrix / Corolla platform
3. Something like the Avalance (Chevy)
He also predicted Toyota would venture into lower volume off-road niche vehicles as well. "Cells of customers are attracted to specific products, as opposed to products that are one-size-fits-all," he said. "Thats why Xterra is doing so well."
The article also said that the cost for the new 2003 4Runner "will move further upmarket and will offer six- and eight-cylinder engines. Pricing should increase commensurately" That means get out your wallet.
Just more food for thought...
If you don't actually need the power of the V-8, then you'd be making a wise decision going with the 2002 4Runner. These vehicles haves been tweaked and refined for well over 5 years, and the quality and reliability is a steal for the incentives Toyota is offering at this time...you won't see them again for many years.
His problem which I am trying to help him resolve - the sport seats are causing him to have a lower back problem. Apparently the curve in the bottom of the seat is causing the problem. Has anyone experienced this before? If so, any solutions. He did not have this problem with his former 4Runner which had the standard seats. Thanks in advance.
Most back issues can be solved by turning the dial on the lower side of the seat to raise the back portion of the cushion and adjusting the lumbar support.
Now, if your customer had purchased through conventional channels and shopped for a knowledgeable salesman, he would have known this. The best price is not always the best deal.
Definitely no third row seat, for (at least) two reasons:
1. The true target audience has shown no interest in it,
2. The target audience feels that it may affect performance. (whether or not it does isn't the issue; it's perceived to affect performance.)
More interior room for both people (head, leg and hips) and cargo.
Allow me this opportunity to share a sure fire way to find the best and most informed salesman at a dealership. Call the store and ask to speak to the new car manager. Tell him that you are in the market for a new Runner but have some very technical questions. Ask him which salesman will be most likely to be able to answer them honestly. The manager knows exactly who that person is and will give you his (or her) name.
The alternative to that is to ask the operator who answers the phone which salesman is the most honest. She will usually know and will be happy to tell you.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Sorry, just feeling a little philosophical or something. Any place we can read those reviews, or are they just something that was passed along to you? I'm sure that's the case, or you probably would have given us a link, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
The passing of each day brings us a little closer to finishing the puzzle... Okay, now I'm starting to freak myself out! ;o)
P.S. I also checked out the automatic front seats and they actually recline all the way to completely horizontal.
Not surprised by your other comment about auto brokers - you made one of these remarks in the past and then sent an e-mail apologizing for your sarcasm. People don't use auto brokers for price only. Most use them for service (i.e., they want someone who will try to assist after the sale like in this case - how many salespeople do that) and because they don't want to hassle with the car buying experience. What this means is they don't necessarily pay the lowest price - that is not important to them. Unfortunately, many are scared off by the dealership experience because of a bad experience they had in the past. I am sure there are many good salespeople like yourself - I work with a lot of them - but unfortunately the bad ones are what people remember. I will get off my soapbox. Again thanks for the info.
The V6 in the current 4Runner is wimpy, so I would scan this forum for info on the 2003 re-designed 'Runner that will have the new 245hp/283 lbs-ft V6 and available 235hp/320lbs-ft V8. Now, of course you won't find a deal on the 2003s for some time, and the V6 may not be available until December, but I'd wait until September when the '03s start hitting the dealers to see what an improvement the new ones will be. I love the current 4Runner's style and off-road prowess, but you'll get that and so much more with the next generation. There will also be a height-adjustable suspension available, that lowers for easy entry/exit, and raises when in 4Lo, which may not be appealing to you since you're looking for a 4x2, but I'm pretty excited about it. But there will be a lot of great additions like a GPS system, DVD entertainment system, and a ton of advancements in safety and function ability. The price will go up a bit too, but so will resale, significantly for an all-new model.
So, I say, screw that disgraceful salesperson and look for a fleet manager (which is the only person I deal with) this September when the ALL-NEW 4Runners arrive!
-TB
Note: My salesman knew some things and some things he did not know. Remember they deal with about 10 or so different models. I found out more in this board than thru any sales person.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
A guy on another 4Runner message board said that while he was getting his oil changed, he heard some guys talking about the next 4Runner. He said that he overheard that it will look a lot like the GX470 and that it will have a 4.3 liter engine instead of the 4.7 (I guess this can be considered overhearsay). Where did this 4.3 come from? Is it a new engine or an old one?
when i bought my sequoia, i was buying the one on the lot, it doesn't come with keyless entry and the saleperson told me i can go to goodguys to put in the alarm system. after i read the menu, i found out that the alarm system is actually there in my car, (saleperson didn't know that) what it is missing is just the door open remote. it sounds silly if i need to put an after market alarm system over the existing one. i called toyota, they can't give me any answer. besides, they don't offer any factory keyless entry to put it afterward. i know the keyless is like a brain and a remote, do you think the car is pre-wired and all it's missing is the remote? if not what would you suggest i can do to have a remote keyless entry in a reasonable price?
"The GX 470's double overhead-cam 4.7-liter V8 engine produces 235 horsepower and 320 lb.-ft. of torque (preliminary figures). Just as important, especially for customers who will want to use the new model's generous 6,500-lb. towing capacity (with optional tow package), the GX 470 V8 produces 80 percent of its peak torque -- or 256 lb.-ft. -- at just 1,100 rpm. The GX 470 also meets Low Emissions Vehicle (LEV) certification."
That and the V6, which produces 245 hp and 283 lbs/ft of torque, will be the 2 engines available on the new 4Runner.
Hope that clears things up.
As a side note, it's interesting that the same engine in the new Tundra SR5 Stepside coming this fall puts out 245 hp and 315 lbs/ft of torque. I don't quite follow what the subtle changes in engine output will do to justify these inconsistencies, but it's interesting to see Toyota try some different things to get in the horsepower/torque game, while maintaining their LEV standards.
Service has been a joke also. They over filled my oil by a quart and when I took it back they said don't worry about it, it will burn off. During the same major service they neglected to fill the windshield wiper reservoir and didn't check the brake fluid level (both low)(Burien Toyota, Seattle).
Six months ago I went back to the same dealership to look at a Sequoia, not having the color I wanted the salesman started directing me towards a "V8" 4Runner. I said 4Runner comes in a V8? He said he thought so, I just turned around and walked off shaking my head. Many Salesmen just don't know the produce and many don't seem to want to learn. I'd rather have someone tell me they didn't know and then make an effort to find out instead of winging it!
As a sidenote, autobrokers have a valuable service if you are able/willing to pay for it.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Unfortunately, it is true that there is not currently a genuine Toyota system that can be added after the thing is built. I've done a few aftermarket systems on the Sequoia with good result.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it will be worth your time as a consumer to seek out a good salesman. This is good on several levels. First, it benefits you in a tangible way. A good salesman can actually add value to the car by pointing out things you wouldn't otherwise know. They can also assist you after the sale if you have any problems. Negotiations are usually MUCH more civil and respectful with these types and that makes the whole process much less stressful to you.
There is another benefit though which is more esoteric. By rewarding the good ones with your business, it elevates us all. The less informed ones see the success of the good ones and also see what happens to their pay checks. Being self-interested, they hopefully will try to emulate the success of others. You reinforce good practices by buying from good salesmen.
Like I said, it isn't difficult to find honest, well informed salesmen if you take a little extra effort during the research phase of your shopping. You're already doing a lot of research on the product and price, so take just a little time to research your salesman as well.
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2004/mitsubishi/psu/4drsuv/photo_1.html
If the link doesn't work just go to the Future Automobiles section of Edmunds and click on the Mitsubishi PSU.
Although there are differences there are many similarities to the spy pics of the 2003 4Runner (if that's really what they are) that tbcreative posted many weeks/months ago. I'm referring to the set of 3 pics with the Lexus in the corner. Although the tail lights seem to be in a slightly different position the nose seems to be very similar. It may have to do with the common types of body cladding manufacturers use...I don't know. The roof rack is also similar in both pics but that could be said about most racks. Now that I'm looking at it closer they may not look the same. Anyway, thought I'd throw my two cents around.
This is not to say that all auto brokers (which Cliffy is opposed to) are great. I hear stories of bad service as well! However, in order to be one of the good ones, be it an auto broker or a salesperson for a specific dealer/manufacturer, the person must have their customers' best interest at heart and must be willing to go the extra mile if need be. If it means that someone can call the same person each time they get a car, that works for that person. There must be a reason they keep going back. And a good auto broker will have a good network of auto dealers behind it.
Case in point - a client purchased an Audi A6 from a local dealer (he asked that I work with this dealer specifically because he wanted to patronize a local business). My client's car developed a transmission problem which the dealer's service dept could not resolve. Everyone was very nice to him throughout the process - the service dept, the salesperson who worked with him originally. But in the end, this did not take care of his problem. I made a couple of calls to other Audi dealers I work with and found that another service dept had encountered the same transmission problem for one of its customers. And it had found the solution to the problem! My point - there are different ways to provide good service. Everyone should choose whatever they feel comfortable with.
I happen to agree that the dealers should know their products the best. Most of the time I know the products better. But what are you going to do? Some customers suck it in and make the once every 3 to 4 year trip to the dealership - dreading it all the way because of a prior bad experience. Others choose another way which is where someone like me would come in.
All cars I deal with have a qualified person from the dealership explain all of the features even though in most cases I can do it as well. I usually throw in some practical tips - typically safety related. The dealer follows up a couple of days later, as do I, to see if everything is okay with the car. Most of the time everything is okay, and if not, this is where the "service" piece really kicks in.
You won't hear from me about this anymore. Thanks.
>they just something that was passed along to you?
Just passed along. I understood that these are just more or less demo rides and that they aren't allowed to publish a review until after a September release date. I'm sure they make them sign a confidentiality release.
The Jim Press interview is available online, but you have to have a log in account to access it, and a media subscriber. We get the information (but no pics) on our Intranet. I won't post it here because of copyright protection, but I summarize it in my own words and pass it along.
On another post you said that the current V-6 is "wimpy". Maybe compared to the new 2003, but the current model has plenty of torque. I've ridden in a few and they have a lot of towing power for their size. I drove a friend's rig that was pulling a 17'10" Ranger boat and you couldn't even tell it was back there. My 17' will ride back there very nicely.
New features for 2003 (that are different or non-existent in 2002's) are:
SP = sport package
NF = rear air suspension
NH = X-REAS Shock absorber
NJ = garage door opener (Homelink)
CM = double decker cargo system
*Standard items are tilt/telescoping steering wheel (SR5)
*Roof rack with crossbars
*All weather guard
*50-state emissions, and LEV emisisons ratings
*Tonneau cover (SR5 and Sport)
and the Limiteds will have standard additionally a
*115V AC power point
*Double Decker cargo system
*17" wheels: 365/65R17 radials, wheels
-=-=-=
New unseen Colors for 4Runner:
* Titanium metallic (1D4) - same as on the new Rav4's, that light silver.
* Galactic Gray (1E9) - charcoal gray, same as on the 2003 Landcruisers
* Impulse red pearl (3P1)- same cherry red metallic as on the 2003 Corolla, Tacomas.
* Pacific Blue mica (8R3) - who knows?
* Stratosphere Mica (8Q0) - found on the 2002 Camrys - very dark blue, also now found on 2003 Tundras as well.
Deleted colors are: 1C0 millennium silver, 1D2 thundercloud, 3K4 sunfire red, 8L7 stellar blue, 057(pearl white)
CARRYOVER colors are: black, dorado gold, imperial jade mica, and white.
Available options boggle the mind when trying to even THINK about listing them all. I will try to get what I consider to be useful info here in a nutshell.
1. These items:
NF = rear air suspension
NH = X-REAS Shock absorber**V8 only!
are only available on the 2WD Limited models, V6 or V8. The rear air suspension is ONLY available on Limited V8 in 2WD.
2. 17" alloys are only avaulable in the 4WD V6 or V8 -- they are standard on all Limited V8's.
3. Side/curtain airbags are standard on all Limited models, but optional on all 4Runners.
4. The Sport package is only available on SR5's in 2wd or 4wd, and the new Sport package includes:
X-REAS shock absorber, silver radiator grille, silver door handle/license plate garnish, color keyed heated outside mirrors, fog lamps, hood scoop, 2-tone seat fabric, 17" alloys with rasied white letters, 17" alloy wheel spare tire, and 13" front disc brakes, silver accent shift area knob, leather steering wheel cover with cruise and audio controls in wheel.
Semantics, as always!
Bob
I am most interested in the SR5 Sport Edition, but I'm confused about the suspension options. What exactly are the X-REAS shocks? Do they have something to do with height-adjustment, or are they strictly a reactive dampening system? You also said the air suspension is only available on the 2WD, but I thought that was part of the height-adjustable suspension that's on the GX 470, as a 4x4. Would you mind clearing all of this up, or is it explained in the Toyota 4WD Explained forum? I haven't checked that due to time restrictions (I shouldn't be spending time here either, but I can't help myself!). I really want that height-adjustable suspension that's featured on the GX!
Also, what's the deal with all of the "silver accents?!" Can they be deleted?! Or are we stuck with gaudy crap that would take away the stunning appearance I've come to love about the current Sport Edition?!!! What the heck is Toyota thinking with that odd choice? The trend is clean design without all the crap! I don't want to take a step back to the equivalent of old American styles where they slapped chrome every where! I grew out of that in the '80s, for cryin' out loud. I'm having a hard enough time making the switch from GM to Toyota, for nostalgic reasons, so why are they doing this?!
I have always preferred the cleanliness of foreign design, and when I ordered my GMC Jimmy in '98, I got a fully-loaded SLS 4x4, where the only hint of silver is on the wheels, where it should be. Otherwise, it's a black beauty. At the time, I think the only 4Runner I liked was the Limited, because it didn't have chrome accents, but I didn't like the price tag, or the running boards. Since then, to me, the best looking 'Runner is the Sport Edition. It's such a great-looking truck, but I'm sorry Rward99, the current V6 just doesn't hold water to my Vortec V6. I would seriously consider the 2002, if it weren't for that engine, and the cheesy joystick shifter.
I guess, if I want that truck in the sport edition package, I may have to have those things painted. Couldn't they do that to the Limited instead? It's the SPORT EDITION, for Pete's sake!!! It should have that European "Sport" flair with a monochromatic scheme. Even the domestics have that down. Why, oh why do auto manufacturers taunt us so?!
To answer your question, Yes, you can special order a 4Runner for no additional fees to your exact specs. If you are not in need of a 4Runner right away special orders are the way to go to save the most money!
But we can and here's the link:
Toyota 4Runner - 2003
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
wheelbase, width, etc.?