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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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Comments

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    edited December 2024

    Given to me this morning by a woman at the Greenville, PA Historical Society who knows I like cars. I believe this paper is 1962 as the Chevy cab-and-chassis I believe is new, the way the ad is written, even though it's in the 'used car' section of the paper.

    At my old friend's Stude dealership, a '54 DeSoto Hardtop was available for $88! Also, a '48 Pontiac 'Torpedo' was available for $145--described as a 'baby Bonneville', LOL.



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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    edited December 2024
    Top of the Stude dealer ad shows '60 Starliner for $2,095.00. Makes me wonder what they bought at the Stude dealer? Maybe a new Gran Turismo Hawk; maybe a 'Benz?

    On a different note, I got an email from the daughter of my late friend, the Stude dealer. Among other things, she said last time she was in Greenville (she lives in the Pacific NW), in 2023, she went out to their old house and the people who bought it from her parents in the late '70's still live there and showed her, in the loft of the horse barn, the big "CARL E. FILER CO." wooden letters from the front of the dealership building, over the front door. Apparently her parents left them there when they moved to central Ohio. The current resident asked if she wanted them; she said too big to ship. In the spring I might ask the current owner if he'd donate them, and I'd get the local newspaper to run a short article and photo of them with a pic of the original building showing the letters on the building, and if we can get $100 for them, donate it to the Historical Society. Limited appeal thing outside of that general area, but maybe for someone who has a Stude and/or and outbuilding to display them in, could be cool.
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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,995
    I had to laugh at that first Falcon - "big engine" - since when was 170 cid "big"??
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,350
    Ah, that 1962 C60 would be a heck of a nab!
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,990
    And a manual Starliner at that - while maybe not extraordinarily rare, is probably pretty uncommon.

    That 1 owner 55 Chrysler HT was probably a fine deal too.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,863
    The Starliner caught my eye too. I wonder, given that it had a “straight stick”, if it had manual steering and unassisted brakes. Might not be so much fun to drive. I see that same dealer has a ‘55 Chevy Delray for short money, which would be a pretty uncommon one to see today.

    The first ad had a pair of ‘60 Ford Ranch wagons, a 4-dr and a 2-dr, which is the one I’d want.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    edited December 2024
    Ah, that 1962 C60 would be a heck of a nab!

    I wonder if as a 'favor' to Chevy for getting what the dealer wanted, car-wise, they 'had' to take a truck like this.

    Town's population in the 1960 census was 8,800-something. It wasn't a suburb of anything; just a small town although there was about ten miles of rural nothing in all directions.

    Dart's was a good place to do business. They opened in 1936 and the owners retired in 1991 or 1992. They had two more owners in the next maybe twelve or thirteen years, then closed forever, sadly. My grandparents and my Dad bought a bunch of cars there over the years, and even though I lived in NE OH, I bought my first two new Monte Carlos there. Just liked the people.

    Mr. Dart told me years later that after the war, they hired a bunch of guys and most all worked there until retirement age.

    I remember one of their ads saying, "If you're happy with us, tell your friends and neighbors. If you're not, tell us. We don't want to hear it from our kids coming home from school!".
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    I think Greenville Rambler's offer of a "Free Turkey With Any Car" might indicate these ads were nearing Thanksgiving '62.
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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,350
    edited December 2024
    That's an interesting story about a small-town dealership, @uplanderguy ! I find it shocking that a town that small can support (or could support) a car dealership. That said, I actually bought a car from Gaier's in Fort Loramie, Ohio, back in 2016... and that down is only about 1,600! The town is about an hour north of Dayton, and it is in as rural of a landscape as it gets in that area. It was a fun experience, as they picked me up from the airport in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and treated me like a celebrity while I was there. Seriously! I was there on a Saturday, and the owner even showed up with his family, and we did a big group photo before I left. LOL

    Afterward, I traveled two hours south to the Cincinnati area, met up with @kyfdx for lunch, and then began my journey west and north to get home. It was quite a day!

    I was raised near Pendleton, OR, after my family left Alaska when I was a toddler, and we had three new car dealers there (Ford, GM, Chrysler), along with a few used car dealers. I lived in the area from 1979 to 1995. Today, there are ZERO dealerships in Pendleton, even though the community has grown a fair bit since then (gone from about 15,000 to 17,500), and the nearest new car dealers are 45 minutes to an hour in any direction. It's strange, to be honest. One of the locations is now part of a hospital complex, while the others are just vacant lots, as is the lot where the old hospital once stood (since demolished).
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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 257,699
    Pretty close.. we actually met up in Vandalia, near Dayton. :)

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,350
    edited December 2024
    kyfdx said:

    Pretty close.. we actually met up in Vandalia, near Dayton. :)

    Oh, well, I don't know. I hadn't slept in about 36 hours at that point... I could have hallucinated the whole thing. LOL

    edit: Oh, right, because I was coming down I-75 and then cut across I-70 to Indianapolis before joining up to I-74. So, we met somewhere near the interchange of 75 and 70, based on your knowledge of acceptable lunch spots in the area! Further perusing of the map makes me think that maybe it was Bunker's where we met.
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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,545
    edited December 2024

    Gaiers in FtLoramie is still there, actually 2 stores.
    Bunkers in Vandalia is there. I'm amazed this took place in my neck of the woods at the Crossroads of America, née us 25 and route 40, now I70 and I75.
    Ft Loramie is home to an annual country music festival.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    In Greenville, in 'downtown', there is only one car dealer now, Phil Godfrey Ford, although there is a Chrysler-Jeep dealer on the outskirts a couple miles.

    Where I bought my C8, is in Beloit, OH, population 892! Although, Alliance (population 21.5K) and Salem (population 11.5K) are each both about 8.5 miles away, and both also have Chevy dealers. The dealer in Beloit is small and has been in the same family since 1928. I really like doing business there.
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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,455
    edited December 2024
    When my future spouse and I started dating in 1991 she was driving her late grandmother's 1961 Dodge Lancer 4-door sedan. This car was actually impressive for the time. It was only maybe fifty dollars or so more than a Ford Falcon, but felt more solid from my pov (my parents owned a Falcon wagon), and was definitely more powerful with Chrysler's solid 170 cubic inch (2.8 liter) Slant Six. Visibility was the best I've ever experienced in a car, handing was fairly good, and the push button transmission was kinda fun. It was getting hard to get parts for it by the mid-1990s, and we got an offer from someone walking down the street who wanted to buy it, but my brother-in-law said no way, send it back to me, and since about 1995 it's been sitting under a tarp next to his house. I hesitate to think the condition it's in now, but it's still there. He's asked recently when we were going to pick up our car, and my wife said it's yours, don't you remember that you insisted on having it. Anyway, my wife and I still sometimes laugh about the "nickel-pinching economy" of the Lancer lauded in the owner's manual that was still in the glovebox.

    Recently Rare Classic Cars on youtube had a video on this car, and he said it really looked homely. I guess so. But I think for $2300 or so back in 1961 it was probably the best car you could get in that class. Grandma got the deluxe "770" model back in 1961, and it was equipped with a padded dash, AM radio, the push-button auto already mentioned, as well as bright red seats. It was white, like these ones. In the 1990s it had no rust, but now...sigh.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtDMA1Eum2w

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,545
    I thought those are nice looking cars. Practical. In the Lancer's case in the picture, the front and sides show styling cues that other cars in Chrysler and other companies picked up. The rear view was the one I found different, but I like it.

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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,863
    benjaminh said:

    When my future spouse and I started dating in 1991 she was driving her late grandmother's 1961 Dodge Lancer 4-door sedan.

    Recently Rare Classic Cars on youtube had a video on this car, and he said it really looked homely. I guess so. But I think for $2300 or so back in 1961 it was probably the best car you could get in that class.

    I think Adam is starting to seek clicks over content integrity as seems to happen to a lot of YouTubers after they establish themselves. I recently called him out for naming the Olds 403 as one of GM’s worst engines, which was total nonsense. I agree with you on the Lancer. It was certainly a better car than the Falcon and I guess the styling, which I like, was a bit out there for the times and probably cost it some sales.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 52,312
    not classic, definitely obscure. Same day, not 1, but 2, Accord Crosstours.

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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 255,907
    stickguy said:

    not classic, definitely obscure. Same day, not 1, but 2, Accord Crosstours.

    Huh. I saw a couple myself the past couple of days.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    edited December 2024
    Good lord, what could possibly be the rationale for naming the Olds 403 one of GM's worst engines? About the only shortcoming I can think of, is that I believe the bore was so large that the cylinders were "siamesed" or whatever it's called? Basically, they had to do away with some of the coolant passages, because there was no room around the cylinders?

    I believe that actually makes the block stronger, because it doesn't have those coolant passages cutting through its structure. As a result, it's a good block for building up for more power. But a downside may be that it can be more prone to overheating, so you have to be more vigilant about changing the coolant, and keeping it topped off?

    As for the Lancer, I always liked them. The front-end makes me think just a bit of a '60 Pontiac, and less gaudy than the Valiant. I remember digging up an old Consumer Reports test online a couple years ago, and they liked it a lot, except for one thing...the build quality. But, I believe it handled well, was fairly roomy/comfortable for that class of car, and with the optional 225 slant six, a pretty good performer.

    The Valiant/Lancer were actually on the shortest wheelbase of the low end Big Three compacts...106.5" vs 108" for the Corvair, and 109.5" for the Falcon. But, I think they were the roomiest inside. And, to my eye at least, they look pretty substantial. Looking at specs online, the 1960 Valiant was 183.7" long, whereas a Falcon was 181." The Corvair was 180". I'm surprised the difference between a Valiant/Lancer and a Falcon is that small.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,455
    edited December 2024
    Now I'm wondering if our 1961 Dodge Lancer had the optional 225 Slant Six. Was that available that year? Honestly my wife's Lancer seemed pretty powerful given how old it was. Once I tried to time it 0-60 and I think it was around 11 seconds or so. That seems slow today, but back then a standard Ford Falcon with the base engine was around 16 seconds 0-60 iirc.
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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,863
    andre1969 said:

    Good lord, what could possibly be the rationale for naming the Olds 403 one of GM's worst engines? About the only shortcoming I can think of, is that I believe the bore was so large that the cylinders were "siamesed" or whatever it's called? Basically, they had to do away with some of the coolant passages, because there was no room around the cylinders?

    I believe that actually makes the block stronger, because it doesn't have those coolant passages cutting through its structure. As a result, it's a good block for building up for more power. But a downside may be that it can be more prone to overheating, so you have to be more vigilant about changing the coolant, and keeping it topped off?

    He was parroting the line used by hot-rodders that because the crank-bearing main webs under the crankshaft were windowed to save weight that they were weak and caused the engine to fail, along with what you mentioned about cooling. What he had no clue about was that every Olds V8 from 1976 to the end had that same windowed main web design, and unless you built it up to drag race and turned 7000RPM regularly, it was a non-issue. As for cooling, they didn't get excessively hot unless you had a water pump fail, which again was true for every Olds V8. Olds engines tended to run warm even if in perfect condition, but only if something screwed up would they overheat. They liked running warm and came from the factory with a 195 degree thermostat.

    What he didn't seem to recognize was that in stock form, the 403 was all done at a bit over 4000RPM thanks to the emissions controls, single exhaust and usual low numerically rear gear they came with. It was a torquer, not a revver.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    edited December 2024
    I sometimes goof on 'Barn Finds' online, as it seems like sometimes the writers seem to be non-buffs just hired off the street to write, LOL. That said, just saw this original Aurora on their site, and I do still think these are nice-looking cars (straight-on look from the rear excepted). I remember mags at the time said the interior dimensions were tight, but the cars are handsome to my eyes. There was a light green metallic, maybe even a light aqua, that always turned my head, and those cars had a dark green or dark turquoise interior that was handsome.

    https://barnfinds.com/41k-mile-1995-oldsmobile-aurora/
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    edited December 2024
    explorer4 had posted maybe a week or so ago, about the classic rail cars that run on the Cuyahoga Valley Line in NE OH, near where I live.

    Last night their "Polar Express" derailed! No one hurt, but a mess.

    https://fox8.com/news/cuyahoga-valley-scenic-railroad-train-derails-with-passengers-on-board/
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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,168
    edited December 2024
    @uplanderguy,
    Thanks for posting that story. We were with the grandkids for the ride. I guess we dodged a bullet!

    Here another article about the derailment. 588 passengers, many more than I thought.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/federal-railroad-administration-to-investigate-cvsr-derailment-in-peninsula/ar-AA1wiJEw?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=8d6764a6b8164c1393c31d43894b1c96&ei=11
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    I was looking around DC on the Google street view, trying to find something specific, and ended up coming across this!

    Now, it's from 6 years ago, and doesn't show up in the latest footage, but I thought it was kinda cool. I can't remember the last time I saw ANY Chevette outside of a car show, so seeing an early model out on the streets like this, was pretty cool, I thought.

    I think this Chevette is a '78? IIRC, the 4-door version didn't come out until '78, and they went to rectangular headlights for '79.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 257,699
    At Cars n Coffee, a few years ago, a guy had a Chevette diesel, that he raced in the LeMons series. ($500 or cheaper cars).

    Said it was like the tortoise and the hare. They never had to stop for fuel or repairs.

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,455
    edited December 2024
    One of my grandmothers owned a Chevette from about 1977 to the early 1980s. It was okay, although underpowered and cheap. What I remember about the introduction of the car was that it had an amazing starting price of $2899. But the only way they could get to that was by making the rear seat an option that cost a couple of hundred dollars extra. I even saw a photo of one that had actually been made with the missing back seat. GM made a lot of great cars, but they also did some crazy stuff. My grandmother's Chevette had a rear seat, power steering, and the optional AM radio. It was loaded. EPA mpg ratings were wildly inflated in those days. Real mpg was probably in the low 20s in the city, and maybe in the low 30s or so on the highway if you kept it at about 60 mph or so.


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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 255,907
    My best friend's family in CA bought a new '78 Chevette. Brown, tan vinyl interior, 4 doors. Was their primary family car for a long time, then he started driving it after he turned 16. Drove it until it would run no more.

    I remember the five of us (his mom and dad, my friend, myself and his younger sister) taking the car to LA from our home about an hour north to visit his mom's parents. Yes, we were cramped.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 52,312

    Late 70s when the tired old Volvo needed to be replaced I remember going out with my parents and looking at a chevette, fairmont 2 door (the sporty fastback version for some reason ) and the Omni they ended up buying. Quite the motley collection there.

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,545
    There used to be 2 Chevettes running around this area just driven occasionally. One was a white one (off white) and that paint had lots of patina but was intact. The other I can't recall color. But it was one of those things were I'd see the car on the road and say OMG, that's a Chevette. One of those was a diesel. It did show up at a cruise in locally. I'd guess 10-15 years ago.

    I recall riding in the rear seat of a coworker's Vega long, long ago. That was something I want to keep as a one time experience awful. Noisy. Never been in a Chevette.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 52,312

    The one floating around with a big block Chevy V8 seems like it moves along OK

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    edited December 2024
    FWIW, here's the bucket o'crap I was looking for on Google's streetview, when I stumbled across that Chevette:
    It's a '79-80 Newport, with a '70 Torino behind it. Most likely that Newport's a '79. While that color was offered both years, they built around 78,000 Newports for '79, but only around 15,000 in '80. I think that Torino is pretty cool too, being a 4-door hardtop, which Ford only offered for the midsized cars in 1970-71.

    I actually remember seeing that Newport back in the fall of 1997, in this same spot. I can narrow it down to that year, because I was driving my own '79 Newport at the time. I didn't have it yet in '96 (brought it home from the junkyard on New Year's Eve 1996) and by the fall of '98 I had my '89 Gran Fury ex copcar. The car stuck in my memory too, because I really liked that dark teal frost metallic.

    The car had most likely slipped my mind for awhile, but around 2012-13, I used to bike around DC a lot with one of my friends, and one time we went down that street, and damned if the car wasn't still there! Well, apparently that area was actually a nest of Malaise, because on the intersecting street, there was this: As coveted as off-street parking is in Washington DC, just imagine using it for an '81-84 K-car! I have a feeling that DC actually made them get rid of that parking spot at some point. There is no curb cut there, so it's not an actual driveway. They had to hop the curb and drive across the sidewalk to put that car there.

    Looking at more modern street views, that parking spot is long gone, and those cars were probably junked awhile back. And digging up old real estate listings, it sounds like the building was a trap house once upon a time. It was sold for $950K in 2011, and the listing said "Enter at own risk" ! It was described as "two units above and a church below". But apparently, it was fixed up and new life breathed into it. Here's a listing for the top level, which sold in 2022 for $1,125,000... https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1801-13th-St-NW-20009/unit-3/home/40493997

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,455
    edited December 2024
    Just looked it up, and the Chevette was really small at around 160 inches long, 62 inches wide, and with a weight with a few option like a back seat of around 2000 pounds. Adjusted for inflation a Chevette with a few options that cost $3400 back in 1975 would be the equivalent of $20k today. The Nissan Sentra today is a few thousand more than that, but the Sentra is 20 inches longer, 8 inches wider, much more powerful, has four doors, and weighs about a thousand pounds more. So cars weren't really less expensive back then.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    benjaminh said:

    The Nissan Sentra today is a few thousand more than that, but the Sentra is 20 inches longer, 8 inches wider, much more powerful, has four doors, and weighs about a thousand pounds more. So cars weren't really less expensive back then.

    I tend to do the same thing, when people talk about how cheap cars were back in the "good old days." Run it through an inflation calculator, account for all the standard equipment and safety upgrades these days, and see how it really is. I've used this example before, but my grandparents bought a new '57 Ford Galaxie 500 Victoria 4-door hardtop, with the optional 312 V8. I think the base price was around $2400, but as equipped, this sucker was around $3500 out the door. That's about $39,000 today. For a car with crank windows, hupcaps, no a/c, no tilt, am radio, no airbags, no abs, and so on. It had power steering/brake, automatic, two-tone paint, whitewalls, a heater, AM radio, maybe the factory tinted windows, but that was about it.

    I'll confess I also used inflation to talk myself into buying my 2023 Charger last year. My rationale was that my old 2000 Intrepid was $22,389 out the door when I bought it in November of 1999. The Charger was around $54K total, in September of 2023. I think the Intrepid's purchase price was up to around $42K, inflation-adjusted, so my rationale was that the Charger was really only cost about $12K more, but overall was one heckuva lot more than $12K more car!

    The Intrepid, at that price, was a base model, with no options at all, although I did get them to throw in a 12 disc cd changer. It only had the two airbags up front. Plastic hubcaps. No ABS. Manual adjust for the seats. No remote entry either, although I did get that when I got a Viper alarm installed, not long after someone tried to break into the car. I have a feeling I'll be missing those plastic hubcaps and 16" wheels when it comes time for the Charger's first tire replacement, though!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    A girl I knew bought a '79 Chevette Scooter, used. She thought the glove compartment door had broken off. I told her that the Scooter did not get one (seriously).

    When I met my wife, she was driving a maroon 4-door '78 Chevette with 4-speed. By 1990 it was tired and I bought her a new Corsica 5-speed. You'd have thought I bought her a Bentley.
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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 52,312
    that is a luxury car. You want base, rip out that automatic and throw in a 3 on the tree!

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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,995
    No engine pics? :'(
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    Those wheels on the Falcon look super tiny to me. They look even smaller than 13"! I'm actually a bit impressed with the interior though. As spartan as it is, the seat fabric inserts look like they were pretty nice, when they were newer. They kind of remind me of that fabric on the big '60 Fords we were talking about awhile back. And I like the way the pattern is replicated on the door panel inserts, although I'm sure that's just a vinyl pattern. Still, it gives it a nice touch.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,545
    Tires were 13" on 4" rims for sedans. The ad makes no mention of whether the car has the sportscar engine (170) or the base engine (144). Likely the term "base" Falcon is the engine size.

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,455
    Some Falcon ads from 1960...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muIAgAx1AEk
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,990
    Early Falcons in white with wide whites make me think of this:


  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    I'm too used to being around Larks apparently. Everything looks dollhouse tiny to me on those Falcons. What do I know though, they sold like crazy.
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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,455
    Wally and the Beaver help sell the full line of 1960 Fords in this 3-minute color advertisement...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9x8PBc1G8E
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    fintail said:

    Early Falcons in white with wide whites make me think of this:


    But it beats the heck out of a 1912 Baker Electric!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920

    I'm too used to being around Larks apparently. Everything looks dollhouse tiny to me on those Falcons. What do I know though, they sold like crazy.

    The Falcon blew away the other compacts in sales for 1960, but I wonder if it cannibalized some sales of the full-sized Fords? According to my old car book, Chevy sold about 1,462K units in 1959, vs 1,450 for Ford. But for 1960, Chevy moved about 1,653K units, while Ford overall fell just a bit, to 1,439K. So I'm wondering if the Corvair actually expanded Chevy's market, whereas the Falcon simply segmented Ford's market?

    Similarly, I think the Valiant might have cut into the big Plymouth's sales. For 1959, Plymouth moved about 458K units, compared to around 447K in 1960. Another problem for Plymouth though, was the new Dodge Dart lineup, which matched Plymouth model for model, at about the same price. It might have siphoned away some big Ford/Chevy sales too, I guess.

    Of course, the big Ford's styling might have had something to do with it, as well. While we might think they're cool cars nowadays, at the time the styling was a bit polarizing. Buyers responded well to the '59s, but then following that up with the '60 might have been a bit offputting to some buyers.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,565
    edited December 2024
    I think I told you andre once before, but I was surprised by looking online at ads from my hometown paper, in the late '50's--the way Chrysler teamed divisions, there were actually three dealers in a town of 8,800 that handled one of the divisions, can't recall which now and my last free trial of newspapers.com ended Dec. 20, but all were within one mile of each other.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,990
    andre1969 said:

    fintail said:

    Early Falcons in white with wide whites make me think of this:


    But it beats the heck out of a 1912 Baker Electric!
    That was always one of my favorite episodes, aired in reruns when I was a kid in the 80s. I was much more interested in the old electric than the Falcon.

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