There was a lady at work who had an Eagle Vision. 1994 I think. It was the cheaper model, with the 3.3 V6. At one point, she was so mad at it, she wanted everybody she knew to put signs saying "Boycott Chrysler" or something like that in their car windows. This was not long after I bought my 2000 Intrepid, and I told her hell no, I LIKE my car! I also asked her how many miles her car had on it, and she said about 160,000. I asked her how many engines and transmissions it had gone through, and she said, none. So I told her, if the car made it that far, quit whining!
She ended up giving it to her son, and I think she went with a RAV-4, and retired soon after that. I think the son wrecked the Vision, not long after that.
I don't know what my attitude would have been like, as a car buyer in the 50's or 60's, but I tend to keep cars a pretty long time. If a division was going to shut down, like Olds, Pontiac, Plymouth, or Mercury, I wouldn't be afraid to still buy one, since the parent company is still around. It would hurt resale, but as long as I usually keep a car, that's not a big deal. My main concern would be if the parent company went under, and parts/maintenance/repair support could become a potential problem.
Heck, I guess the fact I bought a 2000 Intrepid shows that I'm not really concerned about resale! It was pretty common knowledge back then that they depreciated pretty quickly. But, I liked the car, and thought it was a good price, and the 0.9% financing cinched the deal.
However, back then the 2.7 V6 was new enough, that all of its problems hadn't really had time to surface yet. If that engine had that reputation at the time, I wouldn't have bought the car. Although in its defense, I never had any issues with the 2.7 in my car, in the 150,000 miles I had it. They were prone to sludging, although from what I've heard you had to really abuse/neglect them for that to be an issue. And I think the problem was worse in transverse applications, such as the 2001 Stratus/Sebring sedans and convertible.
With a lot of those orphan makes, like DeSoto, Edsel, Studebaker, etc, I think the allure of getting one of the final models didn't really happen until years later, when people started seeking them out as collectibles.
One "final year" model that I owned, was a 1989 Plymouth Gran Fury ex-police car. I've heard some of the old-timers say that the M-body was the last "True Mopar." They didn't consider the FWD cars to be "True Mopars." And, I had mentioned my old Gran Fury a few weeks back, in some forum on Facebook, and someone responded that they'd LOVE to have an '89 M-body. I just told him, too bad I didn't know ya at the time, but that was 20 years ago that I got rid of it! That's also different, in being the last year of an individual model, rather than a whole division, so not nearly as significant.
And technically, my Ram is the final year that they were "Dodge Rams" rather than just "Rams." 2012 was the year they started to transition. And they took the word "Dodge" off of the truck almost everywhere, except one spot...a little plastic insert tray in the top of the dashboard. It still says "DODGE." The next year, they changed them to say "RAM". And, according to the Motor Vehicle Administration, it's listed as a "Dodge." I wonder if the 2013 and newer ones actually get registered as "Ram"?
I miss Mr_Shiftright's valuable contributions to this site and other publications over many years.
I still see some posts in FB. But, not much. We met up in 2018, when we were in Sonoma (where he lives). He's a nice guy. Probably 80 or older, now.
Scary how fast the time goes. Here's one for ya, though. Remember when I came out your way to get that '76 LeMans? That's gonna be TWENTY years ago, this upcoming April!
I miss Mr_Shiftright's valuable contributions to this site and other publications over many years.
I still see some posts in FB. But, not much. We met up in 2018, when we were in Sonoma (where he lives). He's a nice guy. Probably 80 or older, now.
Scary how fast the time goes. Here's one for ya, though. Remember when I came out your way to get that '76 LeMans? That's gonna be TWENTY years ago, this upcoming April!
Really? I was thinking that was after I started here at Edmunds, but it must have been just before. I am really, really old... lol
andre, I looked at a couple 1980 Chevy truck brochures online. One was a Canada-only and the other I don't think was, LOL. I saw square headlights in both. Online I saw some site that says the square headlights were option code V22 I think it was. You know me, I tend to not put a lot of weight into fan sites created decades after the vehicles were out, for production-back-in-the-day facts, but in lieu of anything else, I guess, why not?
I can't say I remember square headlights in '80, but then I really didn't pay much attention to trucks while I was regularly visiting the Chevy dealers in my hometown and also the small town in which I went to college, then.
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I looked around, and found this one, listed as a 1980 C20 Scottsdale Camper Special, on Pinterest... Color-wise, this one looks like a dead ringer for my great-uncle's truck. Not the best image in the world, but I don't have a Pinterest account, so I wasn't able to get a really good pic of it.
I think that's the tunnel from both Duel and It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World.
Yep, that's it. I pulled it from a "Duel" fan page. Good to know I'm not the only one that would actually go out to old filming locations like that!
It also showed up at least twice in "Barnaby Jones." Once, in "The Loose Connection," after being disabled by a hit from a '60-62 Valiant, they show his '73 LTD being towed through the tunnel. And in another episode, "A Gathering of Thieves," a Ford pickup chases an early 60's Comet, and knocks it down the embankment to the left of where that Citroen is parked...
And, if you look closely, you can still see the Comet there today....
(I'm jesting; don't look for it.)
LOL, there's actually a fence across that edge, nowadays. Maybe too many people got the bright idea of disposing of their junk cars that way, pushing them over the embankment! There's also a railroad track (same railroad line that shows up in all the scenes from "Duel" where you see trains, tracks, etc) down there, and some kind of quarry or mining operation.
Friend of mine is thinking about going to look at this 1960 Edsel Ranger hardtop. I like these cars, but this appears to be a big project. Bay City, MI, $5,500.
Those are awful looking that' year that year. Obviously just parts hung onto a 1960 Ford.
I like seeing Edsels since I remember them live. My English Latin teacher had the first model. One day it wouldn't go into reverse to back out ofgarage so she was late to school.
Rare and unusual. FWD! No power windows. Searching for this model online actually comes up with auction photos of this car. 1929 Cord. Is there a way to find how much it sold for?
My grandfather had a Pontiac with a similar iterior to that. When there were 6 of us going somewher, I had to sit onthe console. I think that big round gauge is a tach.
Today at lunch, a Triumph TR-7 convertible in teal (?). And it was running! Gosh, I wanted one of those back in my youth. What is it with me and British cars? Oh, yeah; mid 60's red E-Type convertible.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Today at lunch, a Triumph TR-7 convertible in teal (?). And it was running! Gosh, I wanted one of those back in my youth. What is it with me and British cars? Oh, yeah; mid 60's red E-Type convertible.
I attended college with a guy who owned a TR-7.
Sadly, he sold it before moving to Phoenix, and he drove a G-Body Grand Prix.
Gosh I want that. But it would be the anti-retirement machine. A modern-day BMW convertible just, surprisingly, cost me many pretty pennies out of warranty.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The 60 Edsel isn't pretty, like all Edsels, but it wins points for weirdness. It'd be a labor of love as I doubt many are looking to pay for a restored one.
I think the rarest might be the 9 passenger wagon? Too lazy to look it up. I remember a year or two ago there was a nice 4 door HT for sale in western WA, I think it was around 17K or so.
I remember seeing the number 76 for '60 Edsel convertibles. A longtime coworker of mine, ten years older than me, always says the Edsel dealer in his hometown, Wadsworth, OH, had a red one in their showroom.
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I was always amazed that the '60 Edsel still offered a full range of body styles for that abbreviated '60 model year. In contrast, DeSoto started scaling down for 1960, getting rid of convertibles and wagons, as well as reducing their model lineup. Then for '61, they were down to just a 2- and 4-door hardtop. DeSoto, and Chrysler, had dropped their 2-door sedans after 1954.
Meanwhile, the '60 Edsel offered 2- and 4-door sedans, 2- and 4-door hardtops, the convertible, and the wagon. And, it was on a slightly longer wheelbase than a Ford, although it was only an inch. And I remember awhile back, someone here pointing out that they could have just moved the axle back a bit on the spring, to accomplish that. While I imagine most of the modifications to an Edsel vs a Ford were just tack-on stuff, the rear quarter panels definitely had to be different, to accommodate those taillights. And the hood was different. With DeSoto, I think they gave it that bulge with the upper "grille," so that it could use the same hood as a Chrysler, and I'm pretty sure the other changes were extremely minimal.
Seems to me that it cost an awful lot to offer a full range of body styles for the Edsel, but maybe it really wasn't as expensive as my mind is making it out to be. Plus, even though the Edsel's failure cost Ford a lot of money, they had deeper pockets than Mopar did.
Some Edsel dealers, who signed up when Detroit Packards disappeared, actually picked up Studebaker for a few years. The Stude dealer in Kent, OH where I live, had been an Edsel dealer. Newman and Altman in South Bend also became Stude dealers after Edsel did poorly and built Avanti II's for a long time after Stude, and also sold NOS parts after Stude got out of the parts business in '72.
I agree, lots of work for Edsel production ending in (I think) Nov. '59.
I didn't know, or didn't remember, that the Edsel had a longer wheelbase than the Ford. One inch? There's a "why bother?", LOL.
Fintail pointed out, correctly, that the rear glass was different in a '60 Edsel four-door hardtop, than the Ford. That's cool too, but a bit odd.
Are the rear quarters really different? I guess I never looked that close. From the back, you can see where the Ford taillights would have been. I think there's even a seam there, but I should check before posting that.
EDIT: Edsel had a relatively small decklid, but you're right--the quarters include those top-of-the-taillight bulges. Hanging around Stude so long, I'm not accustomed to quarters with that much at the top of the sides.
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Given an opportunity to buy a '60 Starliner or a '60 Edsel Ranger two-door hardtop, in the same excellent condition and same price, I'd probably forego the prettier Starliner just to get the kind-of-weird Edsel!
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I suspect the Edsel 4-door hardtop used the same roof structure and rear window as the 4-door sedan and 2-door sedan, which was also shared with the Fairlane. Just, minus the B-pillar and door window frames. In the Ford range, I believe only the Galaxie offered a 4-door hardtop, with that more formal C-pillar. But, the overall roof structure was probably the same, other than the C-pillar/rear window alterations.
Still, it was a nice touch, to give the Edsel 4-door hardtop a different look from the Galaxie.
And yeah, the 1" difference in wheelbase is a bit of an oddity. I doubt it's enough to make anybody notice. Even with my '67 Catalina, vs an Executive or Bonneville, I don't really notice the 3" difference in wheelbase, unless I see the two parked side by side. But even then, I think it's the extension of the rear overhang itself that makes the Executive/Bonneville look bigger, not necessarily just the added wheelbase.
The wheelbase difference could be due to a suspension difference, say locating the rear axle an inch forward or backwards. They could use the same chassis.
I saw on a facebook forum, where someone was in the process of putting a '57-58 Plymouth body down on a late 80's Caprice frame. The Plymouth was on a 118" wb and the B-body was 116." I asked him how he accounted for the difference in wheelbase...if he had to do any major modifications, or if there was enough "wiggle room" in the wheel openings. He said that he basically centered it, so the rear axle was an inch forward, and the front axle and inch backward, of where they would have been on the original car.
The only pic I saw was of the body on a lift, a couple feet above the frame, so I don't know off-kilter it looked when he put it on the frame. But he did mention that if it looked too far off, he'd figure something else out.
People were giving him a hard time for doing this swap, complaining that he was ruining the Plymouth. But, then he showed some pictures of how far gone the Plymouth was when he got it. It truly was a labor of love, and craftsmanship, bringing it back from the dead like that. I imagine most people would have just junked it, so it's cool, in my opinion, that he put the effort forth to save it.
That '60 Edsel sedan pic above reminds me--those cars, and '60/61 Ford four-door sedans, have what seems to be the longest rear door glass! I'm reminded of that when I watch early Andy Griffith Show episodes.
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I remember awhile back, seeing an article where someone was comparing a '59 Edsel to a '59 Ford. At least, I'm pretty sure that's what it was. They were both 4-door sedans, and I remember one being a pastel green, and the other a really light blue. That year's Edsel was on a 120" wheelbase, compared to 118" for the Ford. In this particular case, it looked like they actually moved the rear wheel cutout backward, along with the axle, and it didn't cut into the rear of the door as much. The Edsel was also a bit longer overall...210.9" vs 208.0", from what I've found online.
I thought it was interesting that they actually bothered to alter the door. Going back to the '67 Pontiac as an example, the longer cars used the same back doors as the Catalina. They just added 3" in the rear quarter panel, in that spot between the back edge of the door and the rear wheel opening.
I've seen some Australian Fords, where they'd extend the wheelbase by much more than just 2-3" to make a luxurious model. But the longer car would use the same rear doors as the shorter one, and the result was a bit odd. Here's one example of what I'm thinking of...
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She ended up giving it to her son, and I think she went with a RAV-4, and retired soon after that. I think the son wrecked the Vision, not long after that.
I don't know what my attitude would have been like, as a car buyer in the 50's or 60's, but I tend to keep cars a pretty long time. If a division was going to shut down, like Olds, Pontiac, Plymouth, or Mercury, I wouldn't be afraid to still buy one, since the parent company is still around. It would hurt resale, but as long as I usually keep a car, that's not a big deal. My main concern would be if the parent company went under, and parts/maintenance/repair support could become a potential problem.
Heck, I guess the fact I bought a 2000 Intrepid shows that I'm not really concerned about resale! It was pretty common knowledge back then that they depreciated pretty quickly. But, I liked the car, and thought it was a good price, and the 0.9% financing cinched the deal.
However, back then the 2.7 V6 was new enough, that all of its problems hadn't really had time to surface yet. If that engine had that reputation at the time, I wouldn't have bought the car. Although in its defense, I never had any issues with the 2.7 in my car, in the 150,000 miles I had it. They were prone to sludging, although from what I've heard you had to really abuse/neglect them for that to be an issue. And I think the problem was worse in transverse applications, such as the 2001 Stratus/Sebring sedans and convertible.
With a lot of those orphan makes, like DeSoto, Edsel, Studebaker, etc, I think the allure of getting one of the final models didn't really happen until years later, when people started seeking them out as collectibles.
One "final year" model that I owned, was a 1989 Plymouth Gran Fury ex-police car. I've heard some of the old-timers say that the M-body was the last "True Mopar." They didn't consider the FWD cars to be "True Mopars." And, I had mentioned my old Gran Fury a few weeks back, in some forum on Facebook, and someone responded that they'd LOVE to have an '89 M-body. I just told him, too bad I didn't know ya at the time, but that was 20 years ago that I got rid of it! That's also different, in being the last year of an individual model, rather than a whole division, so not nearly as significant.
And technically, my Ram is the final year that they were "Dodge Rams" rather than just "Rams." 2012 was the year they started to transition. And they took the word "Dodge" off of the truck almost everywhere, except one spot...a little plastic insert tray in the top of the dashboard. It still says "DODGE." The next year, they changed them to say "RAM". And, according to the Motor Vehicle Administration, it's listed as a "Dodge." I wonder if the 2013 and newer ones actually get registered as "Ram"?
Thanks for posting that Caprice. I love those cars in profile and I definitely believe the mileage based on the interior.
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I can't say I remember square headlights in '80, but then I really didn't pay much attention to trucks while I was regularly visiting the Chevy dealers in my hometown and also the small town in which I went to college, then.
Color-wise, this one looks like a dead ringer for my great-uncle's truck. Not the best image in the world, but I don't have a Pinterest account, so I wasn't able to get a really good pic of it.
The color is fairly close.
On the streets of San Diego-a first gen CRX and a Citroen DS, both in good condition.
It also showed up at least twice in "Barnaby Jones." Once, in "The Loose Connection," after being disabled by a hit from a '60-62 Valiant, they show his '73 LTD being towed through the tunnel. And in another episode, "A Gathering of Thieves," a Ford pickup chases an early 60's Comet, and knocks it down the embankment to the left of where that Citroen is parked...
(I'm jesting; don't look for it.)
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Those are awful looking that' year that year. Obviously just parts hung onto a 1960 Ford.
I like seeing Edsels since I remember them live. My English Latin teacher had the first model. One day it wouldn't go into reverse to back out ofgarage so she was late to school.
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Best instrument panel of all GM divisions that year IMHO too.
That Edsel looks much better as a wagon
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Is there a way to find how much it sold for?
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When there were 6 of us going somewher, I had to sit onthe console.
I think that big round gauge is a tach.
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A little keyboard grease and I found $192,640
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Gosh, I wanted one of those back in my youth. What is it with me and British cars? Oh, yeah; mid 60's red E-Type convertible.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Sadly, he sold it before moving to Phoenix, and he drove a G-Body Grand Prix.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
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A modern-day BMW convertible just, surprisingly, cost me many pretty pennies out of warranty.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Meanwhile, the '60 Edsel offered 2- and 4-door sedans, 2- and 4-door hardtops, the convertible, and the wagon. And, it was on a slightly longer wheelbase than a Ford, although it was only an inch. And I remember awhile back, someone here pointing out that they could have just moved the axle back a bit on the spring, to accomplish that. While I imagine most of the modifications to an Edsel vs a Ford were just tack-on stuff, the rear quarter panels definitely had to be different, to accommodate those taillights. And the hood was different. With DeSoto, I think they gave it that bulge with the upper "grille," so that it could use the same hood as a Chrysler, and I'm pretty sure the other changes were extremely minimal.
Seems to me that it cost an awful lot to offer a full range of body styles for the Edsel, but maybe it really wasn't as expensive as my mind is making it out to be. Plus, even though the Edsel's failure cost Ford a lot of money, they had deeper pockets than Mopar did.
I agree, lots of work for Edsel production ending in (I think) Nov. '59.
I didn't know, or didn't remember, that the Edsel had a longer wheelbase than the Ford. One inch? There's a "why bother?", LOL.
Fintail pointed out, correctly, that the rear glass was different in a '60 Edsel four-door hardtop, than the Ford. That's cool too, but a bit odd.
Are the rear quarters really different? I guess I never looked that close. From the back, you can see where the Ford taillights would have been. I think there's even a seam there, but I should check before posting that.
EDIT: Edsel had a relatively small decklid, but you're right--the quarters include those top-of-the-taillight bulges. Hanging around Stude so long, I'm not accustomed to quarters with that much at the top of the sides.
Still, it was a nice touch, to give the Edsel 4-door hardtop a different look from the Galaxie.
And yeah, the 1" difference in wheelbase is a bit of an oddity. I doubt it's enough to make anybody notice. Even with my '67 Catalina, vs an Executive or Bonneville, I don't really notice the 3" difference in wheelbase, unless I see the two parked side by side. But even then, I think it's the extension of the rear overhang itself that makes the Executive/Bonneville look bigger, not necessarily just the added wheelbase.
They could use the same chassis.
The only pic I saw was of the body on a lift, a couple feet above the frame, so I don't know off-kilter it looked when he put it on the frame. But he did mention that if it looked too far off, he'd figure something else out.
People were giving him a hard time for doing this swap, complaining that he was ruining the Plymouth. But, then he showed some pictures of how far gone the Plymouth was when he got it. It truly was a labor of love, and craftsmanship, bringing it back from the dead like that. I imagine most people would have just junked it, so it's cool, in my opinion, that he put the effort forth to save it.
I thought it was interesting that they actually bothered to alter the door. Going back to the '67 Pontiac as an example, the longer cars used the same back doors as the Catalina. They just added 3" in the rear quarter panel, in that spot between the back edge of the door and the rear wheel opening.
I've seen some Australian Fords, where they'd extend the wheelbase by much more than just 2-3" to make a luxurious model. But the longer car would use the same rear doors as the shorter one, and the result was a bit odd. Here's one example of what I'm thinking of...
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