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Comments
I can see why you would do this. I had a 99 new Jetta 2.0. Before I traded it in on a 2000 Jetta (since I HAD to have a 1.8T), I dismounted the brand new Michelin spare and mounted an old 195/65R15 in its place, since I knew I'd be buying a car with the same tires (not entirely ethical, but who cares, or will even notice?). On my 2000, I purposely neglected to rotate the tires so I could burn two of them up. When they got down to 4/32 (still OK), I swapped one with my 2000's spare (also a brand new MXV4 Plus), one with the other spare I kept, and threw away the other one. Because I can't stand having a perfectly good $110 tire in my trunk, when a wore out one will suit the purpose of a spare just as well. In the end I'll go another 15K miles before I have to buy a new set, I have a spare with 4/32 (plenty), and the car I traded has a spare with plenty of tread. Chances are the guy (or gal) who bought my old car would have thought to use the spare with 3 new ones anyway, so nobody really loses here. Or maybe I just feel guilty and am trying to make excuses. I don't know.
chris
To make figuring all this out easier use the following link
http://www.dakota-truck.net/TIRECALC/tirecalc.html
<> I have a Question. even though 195/60 15 and 205/55 15 are suppose to turn the same ammount of times every mile, will a 205/55 or 215/50 look considerably smaller on my oem wheels? or will 205 or 215 /60 look better and not affect my odometer and speedometer that much? the tire im planning to buy is kumho712 but i am also considering kumho V700 victoracer. if i buy the V700's i would like to get the 225/50ZR 15 , do you think these tires are streetable or are they stricktly track?.. and will 225/50 be a deformed sidewall? anyone know of treadlife on the V700's? and will the 225/50 affect the speedo even more? Thanks much. opinions are welcomed.
and for the guy with the Mazda Tribute. as far as i know the wilderness tires are pretty adequate and are ok after they got fixed. the biggest complaint i heard about them is that they are not very good in snow and off road, they are more for street.
The Wilderness' are known for long tread life and reasonable price. It's not the worlds greatest tire but better than some of those no-name tires out there.
They should last a good long time if you take care of them. Or you may want to run them to 30K and ditch them.
I think the Michelin Energy MXV4 is a good all-around luxury touring tire, perfect for those fancy import jobs. I've got em on a Saab and like them alot. Not the tire for the more aggressive driver but very good at most things. And well made too.
Thanks for the info on the Allegra's. I have also heard that the BF Goodrich Advantage Plus at Sam's is the same as the Control T/A M80.
Which tire do you think is the better choice?
Vezini
What to do... bad news, brutha. For starters I'd rotate them. However, the tires are entirely your problem. The dealer/warranty assumes no responsibility for consumable items. I doubt they'll give you credit toward another pair, but it has been known to happen. Though in most cases the car dealers charge 50% more than any reputable tire dealer, so even with a trade-in credit, you usually end up paying more, anyway.
Looks like your only choice is to put in a few more hours at that after-school job to save for a new set of budget tires. Prepare to spend a minimum of $250 for the set (BFGs installed). The gang will have to hang out on Avon beach without you for a while.
Anyone interested in a garaged kept, loaded, 92 Mazda Protege, 59K miles with a new set of MICHELIN X-RADIAL PLUS tires? Both the car and the tires are in excellent condition. I'll consider an even trade for a boat :-) At least the waterways are safe down here.
Chris
Wayne
When comparing tires to determine speedometer error, you really have to look at the specefications for the particular tires. Not all tires, of the same nominal dimensions, are the same size. The important number to check is revolutions per mile.
The Dunlop SP5000's have a softer sidewall, and mushier handling than the Michelins. Also, the version of the Dunlop, in this tire size, is the symetric one, and that one isn't as good in the snow as the Michelin.
It depends on what you need the tire to do and, of course, price. If I lived in an area with little snow and drove mostly highway miles and was looking for a good all-around tire, the BFg's would be my choice.
But if weather was an issue, I'd go Goodyear.
Only my two pennies ;-)
Thanks for participating everyone, great discussion and carry on!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
So, I read about 50 postings and then skipped along to the end of the topic so I could get right to the point for my question, which is:
In the Mercedes Benz C280 Class, I have a 1999 sedan. I now have 23600 miles on the car and live in Western Oregon in Portland. Is there one particular tire that goes especially well with this car better than any other tire? I am thinking of getting the Michelin MXV4+ Energy tire at the 205 60R 15 size in the V performace category. (not sure of the accuracy in the category and/or the correct terminology involved).
Currently I have (factory installed by Mercedes Benz) Goodyear Eagles with a hair over 1/8 inch of tread remaining and am thinking of replacing them by mid-May. I do not drive faster (continually) than 70 MPH on the best freeways and the actual limit around town. Our usual weather in winter months is predominantly rain - with very little, if any, snow. I will not take the car out in the snow and/or ice anyway. I am retired and have put an average of 9400 miles per year on this car. I have a second car, a Toyota Camry which has the Michelin X tire. The tires have performed very well on both cars.
Costco has the Michelin Energy MXV4+ priced at $124.49 per tire and includes mounting, balancing,free rotation, repairs, etc. That appears to be a very reasonable price - or, is it?
Can you make any suggestions? I would sincerely appreciate what you have to say. Thank you.
As for the installation, just make sure the establishment you choose has the proper weights for your rims. Odds are they won't be the same contour. am's might have them, but your best bet is to take it to the Mercedes dealer to have them installed and balanced (though purchased elsewhere). Or, you might opt to have them installed with absolutely no weights at the retailer/discounter, then have them balanced at the Mercedes dealer. Driving it temporarily unbalanced will not harm the tires. MXV4s are nearly perfectly balanced before you even start hammering on weights. But, if the wrong weights are used (as I'm sure you've read in my previous posts) your rim could be damaged (scratched or gouged), inviting corrosion. Or the weight could fly off, causing an untimely imbalance, and possibly damaging something in its departure.
Chris
And it also changed O.E., or "original equipment." I'm not talking about Delaware here.
Lots of us just use the back arrow on our browser after looking at the flagged words in the spell checker instead of letting it "correct" everything. It's on the bug fix list.....
Steve
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Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
That calculator is a cute exhibit of how JavaScript can make our lives a little easier, but it's not accurate. You can't make calculations within hundreths of an inch based solely on the stamped tire size. Tires are not footballs; there is no regulation size or weight. Nor are they homemade cookies. Every tire of a particular line should be the same size, but when you compare the numbers between various models, even within the same manufacturer, you'll see that a 205 is rarely 205mm wide. The next time you're in a tire shop, compare the width of a 205/70R15 General G4S to that of a Michelin X-One of the same size and you'll see what I mean. They are roughly the same height, but by no means the same width. Yet according to the size, they're both supposed to be 205mm wide with a sidewall equal to 70% of that value, multiplied by 2 (upper and lower), and added to the rim diameter, making them both 26.29921259842519685" tall. Not even close. As concerned about such precision measurements as you seem to be, I wonder how you'd feel to consider that as a tire wears, it loses (depending on the model and size) up to a full inch of diameter. Generally speaking, if you were to compare a given tire (say 205/65R15) with 2/32" of tread remaining to a brand new identical tire with 10/32", you now have a difference of 1/2" in diameter, or 1.96%.
What am I getting at? Don't sweat the small stuff. The whole reason for having this wacky system of sizing tires is so people like us can easily do what it is you want to do--change one dimension without significantly affecting another.
When you go up one in the width, but use the same wheel, go down one in profile. 205/65R15 becomes 215/60R15. Widths go by 10s, aspect ratios by 5s. Auto withs end in 5 (205,215...), motorcycle widths end in 0 (170, 180...). This is called "plus zero," because the rim diameter does not change (though the width might). Consult fitment charts for recommended rim widths.
When you go up in rim sizes, but want to maintain the diameter and width, you go down one in aspect ratio. 205/65R15 becomes 205/60R16. Or, if you want to increase width and use a larger rim, you drop 2 off the aspect ratio. 205/65R15 becomes 215/55R16. This is called "plus two."
Just make sure all of the tires are the same size and model. It is not an exact science. Why should it be? The tires will only decrease in size as they wear, anyway? For this reason, there are very few vehicles on the road which will not allow a slight deviation in tire size. The type of tire you choose, such as going from an MXV4 to a Pilot XGTV4 will have a much greater impact on the performance of your vehicle than a slight increase or decrease in size.
The Dakota calculator makes this process very easy for you--though its exact measurements should be rounded to the nearest half inch. But a REAL MAN does the conversion in his head.
Chris
PS- If, after all that you really want to make precise comparisons, the ONLY way to do so is to flip to the back of the Michelin America Small Tires (MAST) fitment guide, found in virtually every tire shop, and compare the specs for each individual tire model and size.
Thank you very much for the excellent advice re: the MXV4+ tire for my 1999 MB C280. I will have them mounted by Costco, without the balancing as you suggested and then have the MB dealer balance all four wheels properly.
I will also get the H rated tires as you suggested. As to the price (at $20 less per tire) I will have to do some serious shopping around. generally, I have found that it is very difficult to beat Costco. But,it would be good to call around.
You helped me a lot and I am grateful.
Chris
Yeah, my Jetta came with the multi-function steering wheel, too. I just can't get over how it steers AND honks!
Thanks,
I have been making my own calculations for years and it is not a big deal but some people are afraid of simple math.
It is also true that the same size tire from different manufacturers or even different lines within a manufacturer will vary so a truely accurate conversion needs to be done either from a good manufacturers table or take a tape measure and measure for youself.
The calculator is good for getting you an idea of what sizes to look for if you want to keep the OEM diameter and change the size.
A good ecample, the Dakota's standard wheels are 15 X 7 with 215/75-15 tires, This is a very minimal size to say the least. What tire(s) will work without having to buy new rims or muck up the speedo too much? The average person would have no idea.
The calculator also gives the novice an idea of what happens when you blindly change the size without thinking about the effect on the speedo and in some cars the computer.
Imagine the poor person who because of the ads in the mags or the pictures takes that Dakota above and puts on 20" rims in the back with some really big tires. Hes cruisin' down the road at what he thinks is a legal 65 MPH and next thing he knows he sees the famous lights behind him, and wondering what he did wrong.
Like alot of things it is a tool. It is a tool to assist you in making correct decisons.
BTW, at least tire sizes are a bit more standardized than a few years ago. Remember the letter series? You could buy one companies F70 and it would be bigger than another's H70. That was fun.
Oh, you are also wrong about the plus one, plus two. The plus refers to the size of the rim. Thus a plus one is when you change from a 15: to a 16" and a plus two is when you change from a 15" rim to a 17" rim. Check any catalog that deals with performance tires and wheels and they will all say the same thing. The idea is to keep the OEM diameter as close as possible.
Thanks,
What tires would you suggest to replace?
thanks
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
Anyway, I really like the tires. They're very quiet, like as quiet at 70mph as they are at 20mph. They grip like my AVS Intermediates that I've had on many cars before, which is just short of glue. We've had some serious rain/sleet/slush for a couple of days and the tires did a fantastic job so far of staying in contact with the road in the wet stuff, thx to large channels and a great sipe pattern. I believe their wear rating is 300, and I read surveys that said folks were getting good wear from them. I truly believe that they outperformed the Michelins that were on the car by a wide margin.
I guess the only downside I could see from buying a Yokohama is that they're not known for being great for warranty work, but I've never needed to warranty a Yoko in 12 years of using them.
I'd give them a look.
--javadoc
You're right, I incorrectly named my second example as "plus two," when it was actually an example of "plus one" (rim size). The time of posting reads 10:26pm, but I guess that's Pacific, becuase it was very late here in Florida, and, as I was falling asleep on my 24-hour post as Group Duty Officer, I had logged on to Edmund's just to try to stay awake (which I did, thanks, Edmunds). My slip-up regarding the name notwithstanding, the process I described in my lethargic stupor is exactly how it works. Believe me, plus sizing is something I am very experienced in. I've assisted customers in choosing alternate sizes among thousands of sales. Good eye.
Yes, I remember the old alphanumeric system. Just imagine how frustrated I was the first time a customer asked me to convert an old G78-15 to a new, metric size (I think it was in my second or third week on the job). After about a half-hour of rifling through references and finally calling Michelin, I produced an answer. My self-education was a slow, gradual process; I certainly didn't know everything (and still don't) right from the get-go. But a few days after my encounter with the old system I was quite well-versed on the subject. I never really found out--or looked in to, for that matter--which company standardized the new system. But they certainly made things a lot easier on us.
-----Chris
--Chris
A nice vehicle for the price. I can see why they're popular. Looks like another home run for Ford if they can maintain quality. The one I drove had interior parts squeakin and rattlin. Only 350 miles on her.
My job is to give people bad news. :-)
I'll tell you, with all the tires available today it is rough trying to decide which is the most appropriate for your application. I won't need new tires for quite some time and I am already planning. I may just stick with what I have now my my 1st Dakota, Pirelli Scorpion Zeros. Great tires. A little loud but great traction in the dry and wet. I'll put a little wear on the OEM tires that are gonna be on my new 2nd Dakota for awhile and I am gonna hate it after the Scorpions. The OE Goodyears are garbage for the way I drive. I'm a madman.
Appreciate the help.
According to the tirerack user survey, Michelin X-One is one of the best tires in its category, the "Standard Touring Tires":
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/touring.jsp
though, there are other categories of tires.
Personally, with my driving style I prefer all-season performance tires. Mostly because I enjoy fast cornering, but also for extra margin of safety. Though, other equal, performance tires are more stiff, less durable, and often more noisy than the touring ones.
when comparing user surveys in different categories of tires, it is clear that different types of Michelin tires usually are one of the best in every category. In top three, if not the best. On the other hand, Firestone and Goodyear tires are all over the place: some of them the best or almost the best, other the worst or almost the worst. Though, when selecting tires by model, not brand, it is usually possible to buy very good tires at very good price comparing with expensive Michelin.
Certainly the X-Ones are better performing/handling/wearing tires than the ones that came OEM on my car, Goodyear Eagle LS's, in all road conditions.
But like yurakm and vcjumper point out, you have to decide what characteristics are best for you. Maybe its not performance driving, maybe its snow traction or wet road grip. If no one parameter really sticks out for you then I would agree with the assessment that the X-ones (or X-Plus) is a pretty good all around tire.
But no matter what model Michelin you choose, you will get consistent quality. I have a Sam's club 2 miles from my house where I can get Michelins at the best price. So I don't bother to drive all over town or waste my time looking at Yokohamas or Bridgestones, etc.
Even my wife, who is not a car person (she just wants 'smoke the tires power and handling'), knows when the tires are changed to Michelins. She says pay the extra money, 'don't put cheap tires on my car'.