The Stock Market and Investing

gagrice

Did one of you all dump your holdings in Apple? Or is this the beginning of the crash the doomsayers have been warning about. Time to get out my dart board.

cyclone4

Len, I just read the reviews and saw the video on Edmunds. Wow! I envy you.

The Apple world is ending today according to analysts. Today, the reasoning is that since Cirrus Logic had a bad quarterly report, the analysts are saying that it is due to much less demand for audio chips for the iPhone and iPad. I guess it's $350 here I come for AAPL. It continues to go from bad to worse for me. I have not sold one share.

ljflx

I got out of all but 100 shares yesterday at $425. When i saw it recover from the day before - after my $425 strategy failed - I got out. This will be a great stock to buy after the turmoil ends. They are bringing it down so far that it'll become a growth opportunity again. But they are cutting it real low now. With each drop of the stock I'm expecting Apple management to buy it off the market. If they're not thinking that then management is really stupid when it comes to Wall Street. Wall street is playing the multiple right into a management/PE takeover from my viewpoint. Never in my life did I think a Balance Sheet like that - the strongest ever - could be priced so low while others like Amazon have absurd multiples and just average or even weak Balance Sheets. No company with a weak Balance Sheet can hold up. In reality an income statement - which is what most analysts live off of is simply the filling between an opening and closing Balance sheet. The more it's manipulated the weaker the Balance Sheet gets.

The SL saved me a lot of money as I took Apple money off the table to make it available for the car.

gagrice

Watching the ticker yesterday the last sale of AAPL was just over 1 million shares at $426. Whoever bought them is $25 million poorer to day. So crazy.

cyclone4

Watching the ticker yesterday the last sale of AAPL was just over 1 million shares at $426. Whoever bought them is $25 million poorer to day. So crazy.

Do you mean sale or purchase? If it was a sale, whoever did so, is making a killing right now unless they were getting out of long positions.

robr2

Do you mean sale or purchase?

Well wouldn't a sale also involve a purchase on the other side???

gagrice

I was thinking about the poor [non-permissible content removed] that bought a million shares at $426 and had an early morning loss of $25 per share. And yes the guy that unloaded may be buying them back at $400 per share. Too rich for my blood.

anthonyp

Hi Len

I guess (always with aapl) I will stay through the earnings....Certainly not gamble on the earnings as I usually do, but just wait this painful experience out...I unfortunately disregarded one of the basic things I always do , and that was to set a `line in the sand` and if it broke that line , sell it.....

I read an article about aapl that the author thought the board of directors, who were chosen by Jobs, did not have the independent ability to think about the shareholders, and therefore `we` shareholders are left to our own means.....I rather agree with that thought, and also that this is just a `gamble` as nothing seems to count---like earnings, cash on hand, or any other guidelines....Right now probably is the time to buy, but `who has the courage`? Man I am glad I did not follow through and take a `regular sized` position in this...

You did well getting the car, and saving yourself this pain... It give me pleasure to think someone is having fun and Charlie I feel for you as I do for myself Tony

cyclone4

Well wouldn't a sale also involve a purchase on the other side???

Yes of course it would, but I thought he was talking about a guy actually going short or getting out of longs.

ljflx

One thing that is frustrating with Apple is their secrecy about products and product innovation and their rope a dope policy of just letting everyone print bad story after bad story with no fight back. The scerecy may have worked at one point but when your stock, and hence your ownership, is getting pummeled how about some news to counter all that tenacity in the press about everything from no innovation to not knowing what to do with your money, thereby making the cash worthless. Management could at least put out a press release countering some of this. Not doing so comes across as acknowledging the stories are correct. One way to counter the news is a solid earnings report and good future guidance, The earnings were solid, just not as lofty as expected. The guidance was not. The bad press may well be hurting consumer perception of Apple, which would be a double whammy though the last time I was at the mall the store was as crowded as it always is. That's another reason why the all quiet on the western front style of this management team is sickening. How would Jobs have handled this? Probably the same way but there would have been one big difference. The bailing out on the stock would have been much more subdued if Jobs was running things. Heck it may not have happened at all. For that reason Tim Cook needs his own style, not a copycat silence treatment of Jobs. Until he has the respect Jobs had he can't play the game that way.

Me - I have my own theory about all this. I think management is a lot smarter than they seem and are not minding the stock getting pummeled and have no urgency to put that $140bln in cash to work for shareholders. That's because the more Wall Street drops that share price to the cash per share the closer they get to a leveraged buyout. Michael Dell played that card. If they are not playing that game and are going to answer with great earnings and great guidance then the silence strategy is really stupid. The stock has gotten so badly beaten and oversold that a great announcement will never get the bounceback to a level that it would have been at had management counter attacked the negative press. So no one wins there except the shorts and they're not owners, they're borrowers and gamblers. No - if there's not something fishy here, or maybe sly is a better word about managements silence then management is either really naive and stupid here or the street is right about a major downturn in earnings coming.

anthonyp

I`v been harping on the same thing.....The board of directors, and management of the company are not functioning together, and possibly Cook just doesn`t have the boards confidence to make some worthy decisions on his own....I really can`t think they are trying to do some leveraged buy out....The big dogs wouldn`t let that happen, and there would be an outcry......

Months ago I was begging for some support from the company---all un heeded, and frankly I think this could ultimately end up with aapl loosing the support of all of the legions of supporters.....Mark my words... The product , and the production of their products are first class How can they just muff this most important assignment Shareholder Support ? Tony

imidazol97

>Well wouldn't a sale also involve a purchase on the other side???

A sale doesn't always mean a retail buyer on the other end. The role of the market makers who buy and sell acting like banks for that stock has always been confusing to me.

It's as though the market maker in a stock buys or sells and accepts prices with profit in their own account as a motive.

gagrice

What confuses me is the institutional buyers/sellers. Most of AAPL is owned by the biggies. Vanguard has the most with 43 million shares and a little over 4.6%. I don't see anyone getting a controlling interest. Unless I am missing something.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=AAPL+Major+Holders

Cook, who reinstated Apple’s dividend and announced a $10 billion buyback in March 2012, faces mounting pressure to take bolder steps to pay out more of Apple’s $137.1 billion in cash and investments. Investors including David Einhorn’s Greenlight Capital Inc. are pushing for more money as growth slows and competition from rivals such as Samsung intensifies.

Apple has said it’s in active discussions over how to manage the cash, and considering buybacks or a higher dividend among other options.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-17/apple-falls-on-sales-forecast-miss-by-a- udio-chip-supplier-cirrus.html

Why does Einhorn make such big waves? He is not a top holder of AAPL.

robr2

Yes of course it would, but I thought he was talking about a guy actually going short or getting out of longs.

Oh I'm not smart enough to take that kind of stuff into account. I'm a simple investor - I buy and sell.

Long, short, options, et al - it just makes my wittle head hurt.

houdini1

Too bad that the "poor smuck" was only left with $400 million in aapl stock...that might be worth $700 million at some point.

gagrice

I know, no tears for the buyer. It just about has to be an institutional buyer. I don't see any individuals with close to a million shares. The big question, is this a buying opportunity or a wait and see moment?

I mostly got out of the market last year. It cost me a lot doing that. I am not ready to take the plunge back in.

houdini1

You are in a good position to take a nice tax loss this year. Just tell the IRS that the stock market went way up and you didn't have any stock. I am sure they will accept an estimate of your loss.

laurasdada

I am thinking of buying an Apple IPod Nano...

Written from just outside the epicenter of the heinous and cowardly acts of (at least) two evil, low-lifes for whom I can only hope there is truly a very, very special place in Hell.

Boston Strong.

carnaught

Whether Blue state, Red state.....in solidarity with you.

cyclone4

Written from just outside the epicenter of the heinous and cowardly acts of (at least) two evil, low-lifes for whom I can only hope there is truly a very, very special place in Hell.

Boston Strong.

I obviously have a very special connection to Boston. I have NEVER seen anything like this manhunt with an entire huge metro area shut down completely. The Red Sox and Bruins games scheduled for tonight have been rightfully cancelled. I loved what the Red Sox players prepared while in Cleveland...a jersey with the inscription "Boston Strong" and "617" (area code) in the center.

Stay safe Laurasdada.

anthonyp

Such a wonderful part of the country you live in--good people---aplenty....unfortunately a couple of deranged individuals, and apparently the older leading the younger into such a heinous act, and hurting so many innocent.....Obviously I`m very sorry, and hope this is over soon.....Tony

laurasdada

Laurasdada, namesake and the rest of the family fine. Beyond how we are all so diminished after each, seemingly more frequent, atrocity committed by fellow members of the human race.

Coward #2 in custody, hopefully a few rounds of friendly conversation will reveal all.

And, of course, props to local, state and national law enforcement. As well as the local population that led to the capture of sniveling little coward #2. May you have a long and painful life in a small, cold, dark space.

Decent Human Beings Strong.

cyclone4

I am jubilant that the authorities finally captured the guy. I'm also happy that he is alive so that he can be questioned to see if there was anyone else involved and to find out why these 2 brothers committed this horrendous crime.

imidazol97

I find it very hard to think these two are the only ones involved. Although that's a feel good story to tell us that they have been working alone, I don't believe it. As Judge Judy says, "It just doesn't make sense."

There is a Saudi youth related to the royal family and rumored to be deported after meeting with high officials. There is more to the whole story and there will be lots of focus on the feel good part that capture of these two (idiots) has fixed everything, and lots of focus that there's no long term plot involved from Middle Eastern connections.

The thought of people having legs, arms, fingers blown off just so some group can make a statement is so shocking. Just imagine having your leg or your love one having a leg ruined because of these bombs. That makes me cringe as much as the thought of folks jumping from World Trade buildings because there was no escape.

This is really sick.

Interesting view from Telegraph:
Telegraph:

gagrice

I find it very hard to think these two are the only ones involved.

I am with you. There are networks in every major city, and we just turn a blind eye until something like this, 911 or Ft Hood comes along. That kid threw up a big red flag when he went for his citizenship on 9/11/2012. Maybe we will finally get a ban on Pressure Cookers. :sick:

imidazol97

Cutting the Domestic Bombing Prevention budget nearly in half while increasing spending on everything else probably increased chances of a bombing to occur with (apparently) no knowledge by the administration. Although the story I read of bomb sniffing dogs at the beginning and finish areas before the race may indicate otherwise.

Obama administration has SLASHED budget for domestic bombing prevention by 45 per cent, says former Homeland Security Assistant Secretary

ljflx

Quotes like this from the link below give me a strong impression that these brothers had no escape plan, hence no protection or help from a larger group, did not expect to be caught in the act by a local web cam, and that they panicked once the web cam pix and videos hit the net and TV. That doesn't rule out that Tameran may have had bomb making training on his trips back to Chechnya though. I just don't think that other groups had a part in the bombing itself. That is scary in itself. Could be that foreign terrorist groups train bomb making and are not involved in actual attacks. That takes chatter off the air waves.

I think the second part of this nightmare, the killing of the MIT officer, the hijacking of the Mercedes SUV were tied to their will to live and kill anyone in the way. The killing of the MIT officer may have been an ambush in the hopes of stealing his car. It's a miracle that the mercedes owner was not killed.

Gilberto Junior, who owns an auto body shop in Somerville, just saw them as “regular kids,” even if they had a taste for expensive cars.

So it did not especially alarm him when Dzhokhar rushed in on Tuesday, the day after the bombing, and said he needed his car immediately, never mind that the repairs had not been done and the white Mercedes wagon had no bumper and no taillights.

The younger Tsarnaev brother seemed nervous, he said. He was biting his nails and his knees were bending back and forth a bit; it occurred to Mr. Junior that he might be on drugs.

“At the time I didn’t think about anything,” Mr. Junior said. “How could I judge him? I knew that he was nervous.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/details-of-tsarnaev-brothers-boston-suspect- - - - - s-emerge.html?ref=todayspaper

imidazol97

The Times usually "Leans Forward." But there is a really good tidbit in the article: "Neighbors said that people were constantly coming and going at the apartment and that they were uncertain who lived there and who was just visiting."

First, That quote while some interviewees had said the older brother stated he did not understand Americans and he did not have any friends. So were these friends or fellow conspirators visiting?

Second, one of the uncles interviewed on TV said older brother had no job? He had asked him how he supported himself, IIRC. SO, how did they afford an expensive foreign car?

ljflx

Good point. But it was the younger brother who lived there (not the older one who said he had no friends and didn't understand Americans) and he had many friends and was not the leader in these attacks. It could be that it was his friends that were visiting. He was called a pothead by some of his friends and what better place to smoke than where no one can see. I don't know. It could be that was a meeting place for drinking and smoking with friends or that it was where help with bomb making took place. We need more info on the people visiting to determine that.

gagrice

They may have to waterboard the kid if he survives to get the truth out of him. If there are more in his group involved they all need to be caught and executed. After a swift trial of course. I thought it ironic the hospital that is treating him.

Tsarnaev was being treated at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, said spokeswoman Kelly Lawman, who said the FBI would provide updates on his condition.

ljflx

In the meantime what is it with Obama. He urges the public not to rush to judgment on the two bombers. We have a hardcore islamist as the leader, we have bombs placed to kill and maim as many as possible at one of the foremost sports events in the US, we have bombs made from al quaeda instructions on the web, we have the Russians tipping the US on the older brother, and then we have frenetic killings and incredible firefights with law enforcement afterwards. That is not terrorism with an islamic background?? What the hell is wrong with the president of the USA???

gagrice

What the hell is wrong with the president of the USA???

Look at his roots. His father was a Muslim and part of the Kenyan despotic regime. He was in denial with the Muslim Dr that killed all those people at Ft Hood. He tried to cover up the Benghazi massacre, blaming it on some flaky video that no one in Libya had even seen. I would like to think he does not want to say anything bad about any religious group, except evangelicals.

ljflx

Lot of detail in this NY Times story about the firefight and about the attempt at the hospital to save the older brothers life. The younger brother drove right thru the police to escape. This stuff is right out of a scene in a movie. This is also the first time I've heard about a police car driving into two cars parked on a driveway after getting hit so hard that it lost control. The bombers also threw another pressure cooker bomb at the police during the fire fight. It also seems the older brother ran at the police and was tackled. I'd bet he intended to detonate the explosives on his body when he did that. Also a lot of detail in here about the carjacking of the Mercedes. At one point they threatened to kill the owner than changed their mind and said something I was scared about. That being they wanted to head to NYC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-marathon-bombings.html?ref=todayspap- - - er

ljflx

It would be important and a crucial aid to prosecutors and law enforcement if the White House - AKA Pres. Obama - declared the two bombers enemy combatants. But of course the POTUS and his White House don't want to. What else is new. Have they recognized the word terrorism yet?

anthonyp

Why `enemy combatants`? Is it because they could then send him to Guantanamo Bay?

I was thinking if he were were called `Terrorist , they could keep him in a secret location , outside the country and interrogate him as they please Tony

ljflx

Enemy combatant means automatic exclusion to miranda rights.

gagrice

Why do the UK papers come up with the stories before our MSM?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312123/Boston-latest-Terrorista-1-licen- se-plate-friends-Boston-bomber-arrested-female.html

anthonyp

It would appear that there may be a gang of hoodlums -terrorists-from this article...It is strange they this paper knows ahead of the other media....Tony

fintail

The UK has more experience with hordes of extremist immigrants - they've virtually committed suicide with their demographic policies. They know where to look and how to think about it. Sadly, this doesn't mean they fight it.

I wonder how many investor visa types are involved. Huge amounts of those on both coasts now, often with sketchy backgrounds.

gagrice

I would bet they have a network of terrorist operating here. Getting the bothers only chopped off one tentacle. This was not a spur of the moment act. They plan for years and we get lulled into apathy about our enemies. Which we have many.

Boston bombers: FBI hunting 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev
21 Apr 2013 00:01

Police believe the pair were specially trained to carry out the devastating attack

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-184- 4844#.UXM54Yqm6hA.twitter

ljflx

One key thing that happened that led to finding the brothers was their decision to let the owner of the carjacked Mercedes SUV free. Had they held him in the car they could have escaped the area. The trail had gone cold at that point and probably would have stayed that way. Discharging him from the car allowed him to call 911 and get the police back on the trail. This is a well detailed story about the manhunt and chase.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/us/manhunts-turning-point-came-in-images-relea- - se.html?_r=0

carnaught

There's a disturbing pattern here: Michelle Obama goes to visit victims of the Boston bombing but apparently only visiting the Saudis. Did she visit American victims??

http://www.enstarz.com/articles/16625/20130420/michelle-obama-saudi-national-bos- - - - ton-marathon-bombing-victims-first-lady.htm

ljflx

Interesting. The Mirror report that the bombs were highly sophisticated runs counter to the reports here that the bombs were crude. If they were highly sophisticated that puts a whole different spin on the bombers. Is the liberal American press ignorant here or are they withholding info?

ljflx

If that's all she visited or even if that's the first people she visited that is disturbing.

imidazol97

>Did she visit American victims??

Also disturbing was the first speech from WH about bombing where the word "terrorism" was not mentioned. Statement was made we have to find out "why" it was done, as if there were some redeeming reason that would have made a terrorist bombing acceptable. What kind of "why" would have made the awful injuries for life that many people have suffered.

The market dropped when the bombing occurred but recovered probably on the government line that it was just a local little thing because Osama had been taken out. Now that there is a pattern of a whole group around Boston and probably many more across the country is getting exposed in some few media sources, the market probably will sink for a while.

cyclone4

The NY Times article is awesome.

Here is a great piece by Gordon Edes who lives in Boston and writes for ESPN Boston. He use to work for the Boston Globe. This is long but well worth the reading.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/9195560/catharsis-fenway-park-boston-sp- - orts-cathedral

gagrice

Either it is a conspiracy to hide the truth from the populace or politicians are just not living in the real World. In the case of the Boston Mayor it sounds like wishful thinking.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Boston Mayor Tom Menino says information he has indicates that the suspects in the Boston Marathon bombing acted alone.

ljflx

Here's another great Times story on life on the street where the younger bomber was hiding in the boat. The homes are riddled with bullets and shrapnel. And there's gory details about what happened to the older brother. I hope he was still alive when his brother hit him with the car in escaping. He got dragged 30 feet by the car his brother was driving. I wouldn't shed a tear for him. If he was still alive he got what he deserved and he got it from his partner and brother.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/us/relief-in-boston-suburb-watertown-after-nig- ht-of-terror.html

gagrice

How do you know what your neighbor is thinking or planning? As the life of this Chechen Terrorist unfolds we find out he may have murdered his best friend two years ago.

Did Boston bomber murder his 'only American friend' in horrific triple killing in 2011?

Brendan Mess had throat slit alongside two other men in unsolved murder
Boston bomb suspect didn't attend funeral despite them being best friends
Former associates at the gym where he trained now believe it is a clue


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312814/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-Friends-suspec- t-Boston-bomber-murdering-American-friend-2011.html

ljflx

"As the life of this Chechen Terrorist unfolds we find out he may have murdered his best friend two years ago."

Ah - but according to the Obama admin he's a criminal, not a terrorist. His brother was captured here so that makes him a criminal in Obama's mind. If he was captured overseas he could (not would as nothing is certain with Obama's thinking on this subject) be classified as a terrorist. You see it doesn't matter what he does or did. He was captured here and that's a defining value to Obama. He could have blown up an American city with a nuke or a dirty bomb and he'd still be a criminal as long as we caught him here. It's an invitation to what the rest of the intelligent world knows as terrorists to come live in the US and do your evil instead of do it from afar. We'll get you a lawyer and give you all the protections of our criminal justice system - at no expense to you. Our citizens will pay for it. It is so stupid it makes me want to vomit. These guys had a cache of weapons and were planning to come to NYC to use them but they were not terrorists, they were ordinary criminals to this great adinistration we have.