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Toyota Sequoia

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Comments

  • jam1000jam1000 Posts: 182
    Thanks for the info. As I tried to convey in my original post (apparently not successfully), I have had trailer brakes installed on all my towing vehicles. The people at the farm who have F-350s and the like also have trailer brakes. I believe, as you suggest, that the need for trailer brakes relates more to the size and weight of what is being towed, not to the towing capacity of the tow vehicle (unless, I suppose, you're talking about a Mack truck or the like). I would use trailer brakes when towing a 5000 lb. trailer, regardless whether I'm towing with a JGC (which many people here in horse country use to tow 2-horse trailers), a Seq. or LC, a big Ford truck or even the vaunted Suburban, all of which I've towed with at one time or another. I must add that I towed my horse trailer with my JGC on a regular basis for 6 years with absolutely no problem at all. I realize it's not as good as a truck, but when you do most of your driving in the city and don't feel like maintaining and paying insurance, etc., for 2 vehicles, you learn to make tradeoffs.

    As to the load leveling/sway bars, I have heard the terms used interchangeably. Based on your description, if there is a difference between the two, I have load leveling bars. The other people I know who have bars have only what you call load leveling bars, and no one I know has a vehicle or trailer configured for 2 sets of bars (4 bars total). Could you please describe where, if you already have load leveling bars on, you would put the sway bars?
  • I am looking for a dealer that will make a deal on a Limited and a T5Volvo Wagon in California. I just sold my 850 Turbo and we have a 200Rx300 that we are going to sell for below blue book and I will need to buy two cars.
    The price looks to be on the Limited about 2500 below MSRP? The only dealer that seems to be on this board is Diane. Any body elso want to make a deal?
  • joelisjoelis Posts: 315
    Now you guys are starting to talk about the real stuff - my main concern actually:

    Wouldn't the low numbers on the Seq have something to do with the fact that 4.7L engine is the smallest in its class?

    Seq - 4.7L - 240hp 315 torque

    Tahoe - 5.3L - 285hp 325 torque

    Expedition - 5.4L - 260hp 350 torque

    Suburban - 6.0L - 315hp 365 torque

    Towing ability starts with Torque. I think the Seq needs a bigger engine to properly compete, considering its size and weight.

    I know the 4.7 is the only DOHC of the group, but the numbers still don't lie.
  • Leveling Bars:

    These are two bars on either side of the hitch connected to the tongue of the trailer and help distribute the weight of the tongue on the rear of the vehicle thus preventing the "V" look.

    Sway Bar:

    This is one bar connected to the hitch and tongue of the trailer. It dampens the ability of the trailer to sway/jacknife etc.

    I would not tow any vehicle over 2k lbs without breaks on the trailer, leveling bars and a sway bar. Toyota is stating this as a common sense and safety fact.

    If any one needs more technical details on the above devices I will happy to provide it.

    P.S. When comparing towing capabilities, remember the Sequoia has a 4.10 gear ratio rear end. Compare other vehicles towing capacity with the same gear ratio.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Towing capacity has more to do with suspension and frame sets ups than it does with horsepower or torque. While it is true that you have to have enough power to pull the weight, you must have the suspension to handle it. This is why a vehicle like the 220 HP RX300 can only tow 3500 pounds while the 4Runner can tow 5000 with only 183 HP.

    There is a trade off here though. If you beef up the suspension for towing, you create a harsher ride when empty. Its a balancing act. At 6500/6200 pounds, the Sequoia can handle most trailerable boats, most travel trailers (short of a 5th wheel) and any car hauling duties while retaining a fairly smooth and comfortable ride.

    This is not to say you can tow anything. Trade offs do happen. There certainly are trailers you would not want to tow behind a Sequoia. I think Toyota was looking at capturing the maximum number of customer's trailering needs without sacrificing ride comfort. I think they did a fairly good job.

    Finally, I would not hesitate to get up very close to the maximum trailer weight. After feeling what 4200 pounds feel like behind my Tundra, I would have a lot of confidence adding another 2000 pounds behind the Sequoia.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    I'll beat Dianne to the punch on the parts content of the Sequoia versus the LC. The LC has 10% North American parts and 90% Japanese. The engine and transmission are of Japanese origin.

    The Sequoia is made of 60% North American parts and 40% Japanese. Again, the engine and transmission are Japanese built.
  • You folks are out of control on this subject of towing. The principle is simple: don't let the tail(trailer) wag the dog (Sequoia). Judging the way most people drive their SUV's can you blame the mfr's. recommendations?
    clearly, this is not the best choice if you are looking to tow anything of great mass. The powerplant in the Toyota is a smooth efficient engine made for light duty. It is not a truck engine!!
    The saying is still true, there is no substitute for CID. I bite my tongue saying this, but the engine/transmission set-up offered in GM products are really designed for towing, and as a result, probably the best choice for this application.
  • The LC/LX470 are rated to tow 6500 pounds, the Sequ (4WD) at 6200. All three have the same engine, the LC/LX470 have shorter wheelbases. I believe the LC/LX470 also have a softer ride. No "tradeoff" there.
    I would be very nervous getting close to the maximum rating. Variables, such as wind, hills, cargo, swaying resonance, etc. can easily put you over the limit and cause out of control situations.
    Many factors must be considered for towing, e.g.,
    a change of rear gearing from 3.73 to 4.10 with GM (a $50 option) increases the tow rating by 1,100 pounds to 8,800 pounds.
    FYI: GM 1/2 ton products offer three types suspensions -- two are self leveling. The third is standard on low-priced base models. None of them increase the tow rating.
  • I was a complete towing novice until a few years ago when we bought a new extended cab F-150 series truck and 3 horse slant trailer with electric brakes. The trailer weighed 3500 pounds empty and about 7000 pounds with tack and horses. I'll share my towing experiences and research in hopes that it will help others and perhaps clarify some misconceptions.

    First, the truck had a 4.6L engine rated 210HP and 290 torque. The towing capacity was 7700lbs. When towing with the trailer empty or full, acceleration was fine on level surfaces but strained on sloped surfaces. Even with only one horse in the trailer, we could often only go max 45-50mph over mountain passes with the engine fully revved. I always wished I had more power--especially if I felt like I was holding up traffic.

    Second, wheel base is key for towing safely. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. As soon as you have to brake or maneuver suddenly you'll know why. This happens more than you think because even if you leave enough room between you and the vehicle ahead of you on the road, others are always pulling in front of you and braking because they don't want to follow a trailer in tow-- same thing happens to big-rig drivers. For this reason, you should seriously re-consider trailering anything over 2000lbs with short wheelbased vehicles like 4runners, Cherokees, Explorers, etc. Sure, they may have just enough power and sufficient suspensions, but your safety will be greatly compromised. All the horse-related magazines we researched prior to our purchase emphasized this fact.

    Third, most people who regularly tow agree that a manufacturers maximum tow rating is just that -- a maximum limit. A comfortable limit is probably more like 60-70% of the max. For this reason, when my wife and I had our first child we took the opportunity to trade in our truck for a 2000 Suburban (285HP, 325torque). Why a Suburban for 2 adults and a baby? We needed a SUV with a large wheelbase and more power since I always felt like we were pushing the truck's limit even though we technically were within its limits. The Suburban with 4.10 rear-end was rated 8800lbs and pulled our trailer like a dream. I couldn't believe the difference an extra 75hp and 35 torque made. Plus the Autoride and rear-leveling suspension was extraordinary. One could hardly tell a trailer was even behind.

    We no longer have horses, so we sold the Suburban (very good resale) and purchased something smaller (an MDX). The Sequoia was of some interest to us, but since we don't have any towing needs the MDX suited us better. As our family grows, a Sequoia may be in our future down the road. As far as the Sequoia is concerned, I would never pull more than a ski boat or 2 horse trailer with it. It simply does not have the power or wheelbase in my opinion. This opinion stems from a lot of research, towing experience, and a strong safety bias (my wife towed the horse trailer most of the time by herself so safety was of utmost concern).

    Finally, I think this forum is lucky to have an individual like yossarian participating. I personally valued many of his opinions (both positive & negative) in making my next vehicle decision. Too many others have shown little tolerance towards anything but positive affirmations. This doesn't help buyers make informed decisions. I think we can all learn a lesson from wmquan who has set an exemplary tone on the MDX forum for unbiased discussion. He is willing to consider and discuss pleasant and unpleasant attributes of his purchase without the need to defend it as the perfect suv. The Sequoia is a great vehicle and will fit the bill perfectly for many. Happy driving.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    I agree with just about everything you said (you can guess the exception). You pretty much confirmed and clarified some of the things I had been saying. I agree that a 3 horse trailer is beyond what the Sequoia is intended to handle and I too would feel confident with a 2 horse or a good sized ski boat. What most people consider a "trailer boat" is no more than 22 feet and weighs around 5000 pounds loaded on the trailer. Yes, you can trailer a 26 foot cruiser but most of those are left in the water and towed very infrequently. Those obviously should not be put behind a Sequoia or even a half ton Burb. Neither is appropriate for the task.

    The Sequoia is well suited to light duty towing (which is more than most people ever do), is big enough for most family applications, is set up for icy and wet conditions, should perform quite well off road and is relatively well mannered and luxurious on road. I know this sets me up to be blasted so fire away.
  • Isn't the Sequ the third largest SUV on the planet, behind only the Excursion and the Suburban?
    Ditto when comparing SUV wheelbase?
  • joelisjoelis Posts: 315
    I was interested to see how Cliffy would turn the towing issue into a positive and he didn't disappoint.

    To put things into perspective, I am interested by the Seq as a possible replacement for my wife's Expedition, but want to find any shortcomings to be able to make a better decision. That is why I am bringing up the issues that concern me. Not to be a smartass, but as one wise man previously posted here, if all you do is praise the vehicle on this site, the purpose has changed from 'information gathering' to 'fan club'. I hate fan clubs.
  • joelisjoelis Posts: 315
    Clifford, you can put all the best suspension, etc. on a vehicle that you want, but without a horse, it ain't gettin anywhere in a hurry.

    Its sounded like you said that most people will not need to tow more than the Seq can handle anyway. How do you know that?

    Going from personal experience, I had a 97 F150 with the small V8 (4.6L). The hp and torque was comparable to the Seq 4.7. I had a lot of trouble towing the same size boat with that engine, compared to the 5.4 that is in our Expedition now. The difference is major.

    Example: When on the highway and driving thru a deep valley, you would have to get up enough speed on the way down in order to not run out of juice on the way back up. With the 5.4, you can sometimes forget you are even towing the boat thru the same valley.

    I would NEVER buy an Expedition with the 4.6 in it. I have the same concerns about the 4.7
  • hookeyhookey Posts: 54
    My only objections to Yoss's posts is when:

    (i) he lies or materially stretches the truth (such as the Sequoia has no foot rest for the drivers' left foot and the driver will be very uncomfortable on long drives, to name one of many inaccuracies),

    (ii) he takes exception to either Toyota or a dealer making a profit (I do not work in the automobile industry and never buy a vehicle without hardball negotiation and making sure I got the best deal possible, but I do understand the forces of supply and demand),

    (iii) he makes bizarre posts like the post in number 16 above (where is states “the Siena can tow 2000 pounds, 3500 max. Wow, a full-sized SUV capable of towing only 2000 pounds off the lot”), and then gets mad that someone reads it as written. Maybe he meant something else, but let's work on our English so people understand what you are trying to say, and

    (iv) when he takes lawyerly language regarding recommendations and deduces that these are requirements (everyone knows that this type of language is meant to limit the liability of Toyota should someone sue them, and all car companies do it (or should do it)).

    Finally, I own a Sequoia, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to hear honest opinions either positive or negative about this vehicle. Why else would I read this board? I honestly do want to hear the negatives about this vehicle. It does me no good to be unaware of its shortcomings. I just want to see information presented in an unbiased, factual manner, not someone with a childish “gottcha” attitude that spins tales full of half-truths. I have never objected to any other posters negative comments, because they are generally based on facts and well-reasoned. If you look back you will notice that when an objection is made to Yoss’s inaccuracies he will not address his errors (or intentionally misleading statements), but rather he changes the subject, or he attacks the poster calling them “pathetic” or makes bizarre statements like equating the Seq. with a Hyundai.

    In sum, reading Yoss’s comments is often like listening to Gore’s lawyers spin their story. I try to ignore it, but sometimes its difficult.
  • Please give us your opinion of your seq. so far. what model and option you have on it etc. please give us the likes and dislikes you have for the vehicle. I'm close to getting one and just waiting to find one with a reasonable price. But I would like to hear your comments on the seq. Thanks in advance.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    What I said (or tried to say) was that tow rating are based more on suspension and frame design than on HP or torque. This is not to say that power is not relevant. If you have concerns about the Sequoia power, drive it. In fact, drive it immediately after driving the 5.4 Expedition. Granted, you will not be able to feel it with a trailer but you should get an idea to its power relative to the 5.4 that you like. This seems like a good way to get a feel for how much usable power you have.

    I also want to comment on your observation about how much most people need to tow. My statement that the Sequoia is sufficient for most people's needs is based on observation and nothing more. Take a serious look at what is being towed on todays roads. You will see a large number of "trailer boats" and small to mid sized travel trailers and the occasional car trailer. Perhaps I am making an assumption that since people don't tow more, they don't need to handle more but I think that is a fair assumption. I know of few "trailer boats" that exceed 5000 pounds and most come in around 3000 or less. I am not as familiar with travel trailers but I must assume that those also fall into the under 5000 pound range since I normally see them behind 1/2 ton trucks.

    Now, if you have special trailering needs, don't buy the Sequoia. If you need a 5th wheel, get a crew cab 1 ton Chevy. If you regularly tow a 26 foot cabin cruiser, get the 3/4 ton Suburban.

    I have already posted my personal reactions to towing a 4200 pound boat with the 4.7 V8 and you are welcome to ask me again. You will get an honest reaction.

    I'm not trying to be combative here nor a cheerleader. I am trying to point out that many people seem to get very worked up over red herring issues. If the ability to tow 7000 pounds is important to you, then the 6200 capacity of the Sequoia is a big deal. If you are looking to tow 5000 pounds, I think you would be making a mistake in writing off this vehicle based on some of the comments posted here.
  • 1) I post observations. Granted some stretch things a tiny little bit, but I do this only because I have to balance the scale against the intense over-stretching on the other side of the coin, and because of the simple fact that there are few, if any, people posting true observations rather than unsupported, cheerleading BS.
    2) I found the left foot area in the Sequ to be uncomfortable for me, but I am tall with a long in-seam.
    3) I was hammered unrelentingly for stating that the 2d row seat on the left side didn't flip and fold like the right side. I said this might be inconvenient to some. I was called a liar for posting this, only to be corrected by some owner later on stating that you had to go through a couple of steps to get it to fold. The salesman I was dealing with had no idea how to do it, and neither did I.
    4) Some person on this board stated that the Sequ Owner's Manual stated that the Sequ could tow up to 2000 pounds, beyond that, she needed optional sway bars. She stated that this was confirmed by her dealer. Consequently, the Sienna and the Sequ have the same exact "off-the-dealer-lot without optional equipment" towing rating -- 2000 pounds. What is incorrect with that statement?
    5) I still believe the Sequ A-Trac system is different than the LC's, other than having to push a button to turn it on. The LC's system is virtually transparent. I don't believe the Sequ's is. I offered to place a wager with Cliffy on this, but he hasn't accepted yet.
    6) A 6200 max tow rating is absurd for a vehicle this size. An Explorer, for example, is rated at over 6,600 pounds with the 5.0 liter engine.
    7) I still believe that there is no way a 4 foot wide piece plywood will fit flat in the back of the Sequ. I would love to know whether it would.
    8) I think the Sequ is a great vehicle. But maybe not so great at $45k.
    9) Profit is a great thing. But to claim a $45k full sized vehicle can tow 6200 pounds, and then equip the vehicle with a class III tow hitch only to drop a footnote stating that optional sway bars are either required or recommended (it doesn't say which) is pathetic.
  • Not to break the flow of the towing conversation, but I'm a new poster to this board as I've been lurking in the shadows for some time. I'm now seeking the light.

    I am in the market for a Sequoia right now and am counting the days till I get one.

    I'm looking far and wide trying to locate a dealer that will "deal". I have some strong leads but am a bit puzzled by the out of state tax situation.

    I was hoping to save some cash by buying out of state but that looks not to be the case. Can someone clarify this issue for me?

    Also does anyone know what DMV registration fees run in Southern California?
  • Please give us your opinion of your seq. so far. what model and option you have on it etc. please give us the likes and dislikes you have for the vehicle. I'm close to getting one and just waiting to find one with a reasonable price. But I would like to hear your comments on the seq. Thanks in advance.
  • Post #1 caused me to go check out the LC topic on the subject of "the booming bass" problem, and WOW, was there a lot of action on this subject. Sounds like the LC has a real problem with the JBL stereo.

    So my question with the Sequoia is does this just happen with the optional limited EJ (6 CD) stereo, or does it also happen with the DJ (JBL 10 speaker Premium) stereo that is standard in the limited and optional in the SR5? And does it happen with the standard 6 speaker SR5 stereo? Has anyone tested this? Are these premium radios really bad deals?
  • Hookey: Your points are well taken. I agree that a kind and gentle tone goes a long ways on message boards like these. Like I said before, I think we can all learn from wmquan's posts which focus on fact and leave the biases aside.

    Towing: In my opinion, towing is serious business because it increases risk to the passengers and other motorists.Power (hp and torque), wheelbase, braking, hitch capacities, load leveling, etc are all important elements. A deficiency in any one area can spell disaster or at least disappointment. If I planned on towing over 2500lbs, I would definitely be concerned about using the Sequoia. Why? 1) My previous 4.7l truck felt somewhat underpowered pulling an empty 3500lb trailer over slopes. It certainly was sufficient and safe, but lacking nevertheless. 2) Both the 1997 truck I owned and the 2000 Suburban I owned said nothing about not exceeding 45mph while towing. I think this restriction may be more than simple legal jargon to limit Toyota liability -- if Toyota doesn't feel comfortable with their vehicle towing over 45mph, what does this say? I don't know with full confidence what this restriction means, but it would concern me because other similar tow vehicles don't have the same disclaimer. Plus, I can't imagine not driving over 45mph on highways and interstates -- I can hear the honks already.

    It seems for those who want to tow, that some clarification on the 45mph limit, and real world Sequoia towing experiences would be helpful.
  • completely with roamerman.
    Towing is serious business. Trailers of 5000 pounds and greater pose significant difficulties and the potential for significant accidents.
    Granted, many people may never tow this much, but the Sequ "claims" that it can do it. One would imagine, in light of its size, that it should.
    However, Toyota drops two footnotes -- one for optional sway bars and one for 45 mph. Both of these should concern any serious tower. The former is easy to rectify -- a couple of hundred bucks and a day in the shop (provided the sway bars are even available for the Sequ at this time), the latter may not be rectifiable.
    And, I seriously doubt that Toyota's lawyers are any more concerned, or better, than GM's, Ford's, Honda's or anyone elses. The 45 mph limit is probably there for a technical reason, not a legal one.
    It appears the Sequ may not have been designed to tow, period. There is nothing wrong with this, but why not tell us? Why hide it in the Owner's Manual, which isn't going to be read until after you wrote the $45k check and took delivery.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    One last time. You are now an admitted liar. You couldn't figure out how to flip a seat and you think this absolves you from another lie. You continue to mis-state the towing issue but I'll let that slide since it deals more with opinion than fact.

    You are absolutely wrong about the 4WD system. You obviously have not driven the Sequoia in 4WD and therefore you should stop making a fool out of yourself on this issue. I have proveded plenty of proof to this effect yet you continue to badger me on this. Call Toyota or something and ask them what difference there is beyond the 2WD and how the center differential is locked. You're wrong so stop it.

    Have you measured the inside of a Sequoia to back up your plywood statement? I have and unless 52 inches is less than 48 inches, you are wrong and a liar again.

    Give it a rest. If you want to debate the value of the vehicle, fine. If you want to lie and distort, go away.
  • hookeyhookey Posts: 54
    Pardon me but I nee to ask a question about Edmunds unrelated to the Sequoia. Why are some messages marked "Hidden Response" but I can always read them? Thanks.

    Now back to the discussion at hand.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    I hide some responses that I don't feel really pertain to the general discussion. It means that if a person is uninterested in what I have to say to a certain participant, you can skip it much easier. It is simply a courtesy thing. If you want to hide a response that you have posted, click on the number and hit "hide".
  • hookeyhookey Posts: 54
    I can only speak to the SR5 with the standard stereo. I have not noticed any "booming bass" problem. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is that you are referring to, but I always have the stereo on and probably would have noticed a "booming bass" if there was one. I can't speak to the other types of stereos as I haven't hear them.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    On the 2001 Land Cruiser, there is a real problem with the bass amplifier. If you want the ugly details, check out the current discussion in the Land Cruiser topic. I have heard nothing yet of this being a wide spread problem in the Sequoias but it certainly is in the LC.
  • You said I continue to mis-state facts regarding Sequ's towing ability.
    Please be specific and stop talking in generalities. Let's find out who the liar really is.
    Specifically:
    1) Does Toyota either recommend or require sway bars if you tow over 2000 pounds with the Sequ.
    2) If yes, does Toyota "recommend" or "require" sway bars. Please cite to a written Toyota information on this.
    3) Does Toyota either recommend or require that you not drive over 45 mph with a trailer?
    4) Again, is it "recommend" or "require", and where is this written?
  • joelisjoelis Posts: 315
    Why don't you two just send emails to each other, to spare the rest of us.

    We really don't care about your personal spat. Sometimes I wonder if its just for the attention of writing and receiving a post. Sad.

    To the rest: What kind and size of tires are these being delivered with? (4x4 versions)
  • AWD.
    Seats 7 with 3d row magic seat that folds into floor.
    Tows 7,200 pounds.
    Slightly less cargo room behind 3 seat when raised.
    Safety features out the wazoo.
    To be released in two months.
    Save $15-20k.
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