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Comments
Couple of suggestions I have heard on the GM board at that time: switch AC on when using the heater (filters moisture preventing frosting of windows) & try some anti fog spray on windows.
Please remove the $50 retractable antennae and put the money into
something that is useful. Face it, the hooligan fad of snapping
off car antennaes dissappeared about the same time as 70's Disco music.
For instance the $50 would much better be spent in:
1) Cruise/radio buttons on steering wheel
2) External keypad lock for car entry without key
3) A heavy duty 7-pin trailer lighting connector instead of
the chintzy 4-pin
4) a dozen other things.
Any ideas why the bass is so overpowering when listening to the radio? It seems better on CD, but I have to turn it all the way down to have it sound decent.
good guys, all the gear.
#1 Nissan Pathfinder
#2 Mitsubishi Montero
#3 Sequoia
Very telling article, both the negatives and positives of these SUV's. Finally, an article not afraid to point out the negatives for fear of losing advertising dollars.
Thank you Four Wheeler.
I will post some of the good stuff at a later date but you "Dealers and loyal owners" can start putting down the article now just for fun. There were good points about the Sequoia but some very negative ones. There were also negative points about the others but this is the Seq site so I am not sure how much people want to hear about comparison SUV's.
"...I think Toyota's engineers out smarted themselves" -Jon Thompson
"The weight is bad enough, but the real problem is the traction control system, which when activated feels as though the engine has lost all its power" -Greg Smith
"Generally I'm a fan of Toyota, but somehow things went awry with the traction-control system and the VSC system on the new Sequoia"...."once you get it off-road and demand performance, forget it" -Michael Rudd
"By the end of the test, I was wishing I had brought along some wire cutters: -Craig Perronne refering to the computer traction control systems
They did like the window in the tailgate feature, large and comfortable interior but did not like the "marginal handling" and felt the engine was "adequate".
Enjoy and please dont shoot the messenger
movan - lovwe the black but decided on silversky for clean look - it looks godd with the mettletone and I dont need to get wood for more $
Crudeoasis - saw bridgestone tires at dealer dont know why they change them out I would opt for the dunlops which are standard per fanman
New question I live in So Cal. Once was hit by truck and car spun around on busy freeway. Got new car which was 4wd - 95 Jeep Grnd Cherok and am sort of afraid of 2wd but have been told by salesman that wast of $ in So cal considering the trac and vsc and weight of these cars. Also what if I go to the snow? anyway please give feedback on 4wd v. 2wd - i know the 2wd gets better mileage but I need to make sure I'm safe on really rainy floody freeways, etc. Thanks, Stacy
I have read the article and there was nothing in it that would change my mind about getting a Seq. The Path is too small (and the 4R looks better)and I can't quite figure out the looks of the Montero. (I say it's ugly, but that's my personal opinion.)I probably won't want to make my Seq dirty, so those off roading or towing stuff don't bother me a bit.
My more important point is, why is it that a lot of you guys who decided to buy something else continuously attack the Seq and label everyone else who has anything positive to say as a "fan club" member? I have read brilmtb's postings in the Montero forum and he essentially is leading the Montero "fan club" himself. In know some people in this Seq forum sometimes say negative comments about other vehicles, but nothing as consistent as those attacks by brillmtb et al. I do't understand their point. There are more than a hundred models of vehicles around (again, the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between), and everyone has his/her preferences. Why is brillmtb not attacking the Tahoe, the Expy, the Yukon, etc? If he wants to include the Path in the group, why not also attack the Explorer, the Santa Fe, the Trooper, etc. Why only the Seq?
The ONLY thing I can agree with brillmtb about the Seq is about pricing. The Seq is priced slightly on the high side, but I'm sure it will eventually settle down to a more reasonable level. The Seq does not have to be at the top of anybody's list. If I am happy with what I am looking for, I'll buy it. Or any vehicle for that matter.
If the Path is better than the Monte, why not trade in your Monte for the Path? Of course, you have your reasons for not doing that. So do I for sticking to the Seq (at least for now). I always leave an open mind about my choices.
I am more interested in hearing problems that the average owner have, like noisy engines, sound systems, vibrations, dealer services, etc. Many of us prospective buyers are not interested about climbing the Mt. Everest or towing our house. We have our own reasons, so do you.
I'm not shooting the messenger, but his intention...
Regarding SEQ articles, the ones I've read compare the SUVs primarily on their off-road prowess; as everyone knows, the majority of SUV drivers never leave the pavement (unless they hit some black ice like we've had in Chicago recently). Thus it's not the most important buying criteria.
Regarding Nav and Escalade, all I've read about them is that they have a "wallow-y" ride (I've driven the Nav but not the Escalade), so I'd find it inconsistent with my immediate first impressions about the SEQ, (confirmed in subsequent articles I've read) that the ride and handling are firm and more confidence-inspiring than these other two.
Re fog lights on Ltd, yes they come standard. Regarding TV/VCRs, they don't make a center console mount yet for the SEQ like they do for other SUVs. I bought a flipdown screen/VCR/TV tuner as a surprise for my wife and kids--but my wife says our kids get too much TV already,and I stopped short of having it installed in the SEQ. Oh well, so much for a boy and his toys...
I would be (rather my kid would be) very interested in it.
Thanks.
"How is the fact that the antennea only goes down when the whole stereo is turned off an indication of "losing their quality edge"? Have you ever worn out a motor on one of these things? Do you think it is possible that you would get longer life from that motor if it only went up and down when the stereo was turned off? "
And I respond as follows:
Quality is compromised when a simple thing as an antenna does not retract when you no longer are listening to the radio, Or Cliffy1, do you suppose this is adequate in a 40K car ? The redesigned 1997 Camry came out with the "diversity antenna" which was *q-u-a-l-i-t-y*, in caps. Is that too much to ask for on an upscale SUV with price reaching into the mid-40's? BTW, on my two Nissan sedans (Maxima and Altima) the antenna automatically retracts once I switch from radio to CD or cassette. And these two cars probably cost as much as the Seq Ltd !!
And is Toyota skimping on trivialities such as motor life by keeping the antenna up while using the CD player? C'mon ! I will like to believe that it was something they forgot during the design... this things happen, afterall these people are human...
That is all I am saying if the engineers are slipping up by overlooking such simple things as a retractable antenna or putting a diversity antenna on their new full-size SUV. Hey, don't get me wrong, I love my Seq, warts and all.... :-)
Just out of curiosity, do you look at the suspension set up of a car or truck before deciding what to buy? As cross-over SUVs like the Accura MDX and some of other SUVs are now equipped with 4 wheel independent suspension for better ride, handling and control of the vehicle. The Sequoia, the Landcruiser and Nissan Pathfinder and a few others is still fitted with a solid axle on the back. This set up is dated (I would like to call it stage-coach area technology!) It creates all kind of control and ride problems because one wheel movement affects the other. I ask this just for curiousity.
As for fog lights, I do have them on my limited. Honestly I can't think of anything i don't have on it that came standard or a few options like the sunroof.
I posted another mention about a tv/vcr we had installed in the SUV, but my uinderstanding is there are 3 additional adapters for such portable units, 2 in the front by the passengers legs (which I would assume would reach to set a tv for viewing by people in the second row of seats) and 1 in the rear of the vehicle (which I would assume would reach to set a tv for viewing by people in the third row of seats).
I am sure you will make the best decision for you on which vehicle. We have been loyal Honda owners until the Sequoia. I have only had it 3 weeks, but love it and have had no issues or disappointment. We don't go off-roading or tow anything, we are just a family with kids and kids who have friends to haul around. For this, it is great.
Over the years, the power antenna eventually was warped, once by the garage door and then the car wash. It was repaired once and then broke finally. It was replaced with a flexible rubber antenna similar to the ones used by the MBs.
Based on my power antenna experience, I was glad to find out the MDX used the flexible antenna that is now common among VWs and Audi's.
Let me be clear hear as I eluded to at the end of my message.
DONT ATTACK ME FOR WHAT SEVERAL REVIEWERS OPINIONS ARE in the article.
It seems, and you proved it through your note, that ANYTHING percieved to be negative about the seq is met with personal attacks directed towards the person bringing the info.
I follow some personal rules of backing up what I say, quoting and pointing out the source. If you dont like the source just state it. Dont attack the messanger.
I'm sorry if I dont personally feel that the Seq is as good as some of the individuals here but that's just my opinion and you are welcome to yours.
I did look over the Seq closely and almost bought one but this site it not supposed to be about everyone who owns one patting themselves on the back. Its about getting to the truth for those of use who have yet to purchace an SUV and for those that already have to find out more info about thier vehicle.
I think it is great that you made you personal choice based on what you wanted in an SUV and all the detrators in the article did not affect your choice but I would venture to say that others will make different choices after reading the article.
Again, I bring info, not personal attacks. I back it up with the article so that others can read it as well. There is a lot of positive comments here and I think in balance not enough of the other side of the coin due to the fact that most of the folks here own or are trying to sell the Sequoia. There is much more bias associated with that position.
Yes, I have a very high respect for Toyota products, and none of my 7 Toyotas ever disappointed me, beginning from 1970 Hilux truck. However, I am not necessarily suggesting nor bashing the other fine vehicles that are out there. And I don't go around telling people to buy only Toyota. No fan club. I defend everybody's freedom to choose or make their preferences.
I am not attacking your message or the messenger either. I have made it very clear that I want to know the good, the bad, and the ugly about the Seq. In fact I honestly welcomed your own comments, Yoss, as well as those of the supposedly knowledgeable people who evaluated the Seq. What I've said was that those criteria that they (and you, and Yoss) deemed a weakness in the Seq are not things I would necessarily put too much weight on. Considering the good, the bad, and the ugly comments, I still haven't changed my decision to get a Seqouia.
What I am apalled about is your (and Yoss's) singlehanded attack ONLY AND CONSISTENTLY on the Sequoia. There are tons of other SUVs out there that fall closely or remotely to the Seq, and they have tons of weaknesses too. But why only attack the Seq with the same issues repeated over and over again? Can you show me other forums where you also consistently posted negative points about other vehicles? I would be more than willing to publicly apologize to you, if this is the case. As of now I am quite suspicious about your intent.
I am not much of a car person, in a sense that I don't like to spend my money on cars. If the vehicle is functional, I don't care very much about what else I should have. I don't care if people judge me based on the type of cars I drive. My house costs several fold more than the cost of an LTD Seqouia, which I also can afford to buy. But I can see the Seq (willing to pay only for an SR5 with AC, AH, and GY, if possible)as something that I can hang on and rely on for the next 10 or 15 years. So I want to be sure that the quality of this new model is good. It already has everything I need, and I just want to be sure that I can count on those things down the road.
I believe your Montero is mechanically good and the MDX is a lot of car for the money IMHO. But I still like the Seq, and that's my personal choice.
Again, it's not you or your message. It's your intent in attacking only one particular vehicle, the Seq, which I and many other also like.
Happy new year.
Thanks in advance...
#335 - Riskaker - Expeditions (at least newer ones) come with the antenna built into the rear quarter window (one of the smart things that Ford did). It works well. Better reception than my truck's regular flex antenna (which is also better than a power antenna in my opinion).
I think a power antenna is an 80's fad that is taking a little longer than necessary to go away. Its very useless especially in winter up here in the cold white north. I guess they don't have that particular problem in Japan though.
There are individuals such as the one that just posted, "rruck1" who dont want to hear about other SUV's. I think it is fair to compare them here but it seems that the majority dont want to.
Left with this and the fact that over 90% of the posts seem to be coming from owners or salespeople I think it is only fair to the non-owners, info seekers to provide a sort of devils advocate position.
On the Montero site we openly discuss the problems there are. Faulty outside temp readings, apparent malfunctions with the sun roof, are just a few already mentioned. So........
I dont think there is any unfair bashing or attacking as you put it.
I too respect toyota products and because of this actually hold them to very high standards. I dont even consider other brands at times becasue the toyota products are so superior in many ways. I think there are just a handful of quality 2000-2001 models worth discussing (personal opinion of course).
These are the reasons for my comments. I am sorry if they touch on raw nerve endings or make people feel defensive.
I have posted elsewhere that I personally have not found the near perfect SUV myself yet so how could I be picking on just the Sequoia.
If you want people like me and perhaps Yoss (although I cannot speak to his motivations) to go away then you will, in fact, be left with a biased selection of comments.
I really have lost the taste for this site anyway because on a review of several hundred posts it really doesnt seem that there are too many open minds here and that really is a shame.
p.s. Sorry for the rambling...
Still rolling Sequoias like wildfire to a lot of board members of sequoiasolutions.com and Edmunds as well. Many of you with order builds are being very patient -- thanks for that breath!
In the event that any list members are seeking a silver 4WD Limited (MSRP 44972) or any 2WD Limiteds in black or thunder gray, puhleeze reach me at [email protected] for more info.
I hear that the "hammertone" trim might perhaps have a resolution soon, but we're also waiting for the company I use to add the burlwood to the Landcruisers to come up with their wood addition to the Sequoias too. One thing that strikes me too is that they wood steering wheel might be very nice! I saw a navigator like that and I admit it looked very good. Probably not the best for the cold-climates, but in SoCal, I'd love to see that eventually.
Sorry to make Cliffy do all the "work" here lately with question answering, but I had been too frustrated for words - couldn't log in here to post, system kept insisting I was logged in but refused to let me post. :/
Happy Holiday Season, and a cool new year to all!
Did I miss anyone's questions?
--Dianne
rruck: I am as yet a non-owmer, but I am seriously trying to get one soon. I'm sorry that I don't have an "owner experience" to share with you right now. I am really learning a lot from this site, and I want to know more before I become a contributing "owner." Thanks again.
joelis: Yes, I agree with you that my previous post to brillmtb should have been in a personal e-mail. Whatever happened to the "Hidden Response" option? I promise not to respond in kind anymore.
rdsterl; I am also very tempted to get my Seq soon, but I decided to wait until late January or early February for the following reasons: (1) I am hoping the Seq market will stabilize by then and discounts are more "generous". Right now there are already decent discounts or "off MSRP" offers, but I am hoping that the discount will sort of cancel the extra junk that the distributor and the dealers put in. (2)I am anxious about this "clicking engine noise" thing and hope that this will get fixed before the vehicle leaves the factory. That's why I decided not go go for build order, which I found is a cheaper but potentially risky route. Somebody in the Tundra Solutions board made a comment that if you hear a clicking noise in the Seq you are test driving, run away from it, probably because there is no real fix yet. (3)I also hope that Toyota will eventually realize that potential SR5 owners are also concerned about safety, and would make the side impact air bag a more common option in SR5 models. This safety issue is what I am more upset about. Maybe you should keep your Trooper for another month or two and potentially save $$. Good luck.
movan: I am still interested in your TV/VCR system. Boat3 had posted about his TV/VCR installation, but I want to see if yours is different or hopefully better, for comparison. I am hoping that there's a system that can be installed without getting too much on the way or having messy cables.
Thanks.
This is our first SUV and so far we love it.
Unprofessional behavior like this is what makes the car buying process a chore.
P.S. I have lined up an honest dealer to sell me the car for $2500 off MSRP!
To Dianne, I've read several of your posts that offer helpful answers to product questions. But when you say "Sorry to make Cliffy do all the "work" here lately with question answering", that's a bit much. There are now owners on this list who have more experience than either of you, since we drive SEQs every day. Also, please communicate directly with your customers and prospects and don't use this forum for that purpose.
By the way, I found the comparisons that other people make to other SUV's on this board very useful in making my purchasing decision and continue to look them over even though I've already made my choice.
I like the fact that there are some dealers involved in the board (even though it means we have to endure some sales pitches along the way). I ended up buying my Sequoia mostly on line (everything but the trade in) and was very satisfied doing business this way - I reccomend it to anyone. I had a firm quote on the Sequoia and needed only to negotiate the trade in.
I also attempted the traditional buying route and was assured over the phone that I could get at least $1500 off the MSRP of the new car. Of course once I arrived I was told that this didn't apply to all the Sequoias in stock and that whatever they took off the price of the Sequoia would have to be deducted from my trade in. Since I was already working off the wholesale value of my trade in I promptly laughed at him and walked away.
For those of you in the Boston area I found Herb Chambers Toyota to be the most reasonable dealership to work with. The internet sales director there, Bob VanWert, was GREAT to work with.