Yesterday I picked up a pretty much fully loaded SR5 2WD(leather, power seat, rear AC, etc. - minus the sunroof) to drive and bring home and show the wife.
I have recently test driven a similarly equipped yukon and feel like the Seq. is all round a better vehicle. I love the performance of the smaller Seq. engine - it is very smooth, has excellent acceleration - I found the yukon to be a bit sluggish.
It also drives "smaller" than the yukon IMO and of course the fit and finish seemed better.
The Seq. sticker was $38,700. Yeah, I live in the southeast (charleston,sc) and was a bit confused when it came time to break down this invoice for comparison purposes.
the bottom line is the best price they would give me was about $2,000 off their MSRP.
My problem is that my wife and I already have primary vehicles and we are trying to replace a 98 pathfinder that we use to tow the jet ski and go on the road for football games. We've had the vehicle for nearly three yrs and have 20,000 miles on it. The pathfinder has been a great vehicle, not one single problem, but it just is not quite big enough or comfortable enough to bring on the road. My wife drives an older mercedes 380 sl and I drive a company-paid-for sedan.
Had the dealer given me an unbelievable deal I may have jumped at it but I'll continue to drive other models and see what I do. My friend at the caddy dealer has a used escalade coming off a lease with about 35,000 miles and I might look at it, or I may opt for a used tahoe,yukon or suburbun for around $25,000.
In the end I may end up right back with the Sequoia but hope the prices come down alittle. If anyone has had any experience with the 2000 escalade or thinks they have a better idea for me to consider based on my situation I would love to hear from you.
BTW, when I returned the Seq. this mornin it was rainin really bad, bot the vehicle made you feel like the king of the road in the downpour - very impressive.
I spent a fair amount time off-road last week in Moab, Utah, and learned quite a bit about how the Sequoia performs in actual off-road conditions. The trails were rated up to 3 1/2 (at 4 you risk vehicle damage), and included sand, slickrock (sandstone), streams, and slopes. I have some pictures, but haven't figured out exactly how to share them here.
First let me say that my baseline is an older ('84) stick-shift Landcruiser, so while the Sequoia was different, it was familiar in many ways. Here are some observations and possible points for later discussion.
The Sequoia can do trails rated up to 2 1/2 in high range. Beyond that you need low range. I will limit the rest of the discussion here to low range performance.
In low range, the Sequoia has plenty of engine and braking power for the steepest hills (~35 degrees) that I tried. It also had no power problems climbing ledges, but traction was sometimes an issue when there was loose dirt mixes in with the rock.
I did some experimentation in Low/Low (locked center differential) vs Low/Second (VCS/Tracs). What I found was that you had to turn VCS off, otherwise it kicked in (and messed with the throttle and braking) when you didn't want it to, because the wheels will slip on sand and dirt.
On the other hand, I ran into at least one case climbing a dirty rock ledge where L/L wouldn't make it up(diagonally opposite wheels were slipping), but L/S (and Active-Trac) got me up. It was not smooth or quiet, but it outperformed the locked center differential.
However L/S was deadly going down hill (on steep hills). There was definitely insufficient engine braking. But you don't need (or want) Active-Trac going down hill. So my rules for off-road driving-mode selection are actually pretty simple:
1. In 4WD Low Range off-road, turn off VCS (push the button) and use L/D. 2. In Low Range going up a difficult hill, use L/S (Active-Trac). 3. In Low Range going down a difficult hill, use L/L (Max. Engine Braking).
The second thing I noticed is that size matters. The Sequoia is long and wide. The width came into play in maneuvering around large (>1 ft.) rocks on the sides of the trails and narrow trails. There were also some very tight turns that required a bit of jockying. But it's better than a Hummer, and to tell the truth, the tightest turns were in the City Market parking lot.
The length is another story. The Sequoia is a looooong truck. It has plenty of ground clearance (I may have hit the skidplates once or twice), and so the breakover angle was not a big issue. I thought the running boards would take hits, but they are high enough and tucked in well enough that they were not a problem. But I would want to remove them (8 bolts each) before trying a 4-rated trail.
I only touched the underside of the front bumper once, so I am satisfied with the approach angle. But the departure angle (and that long tail) leaves a lot to be desired. I hit the trailer hitch receiver many times (that's to be expected -- I consider it part of the skid plate system). But I also hit the underside of the giant one-piece plastic rear bumper a few times (which is 2" higher, but who said the rock was perfectly level).
The PLASTIC bumper is definitely not part of the skid plate system (or at least not for very long). Hey Toyota people who supposedly read this board, when sandstone meets plastic, guess what always wins!! This was a design mistake.
So crossing gullys (and any other concave surface) became an interesting challenge, and I would have to say that the limiting factor to the Sequoia's off-road performance is the integrity of the giant one-piece rear plastic bumper cover.
Do 2001 4-Runners and Land Cruisers also have these plastic bumber covers??
I should also mention tires. I did these trails with some trepidation given the stock passenger car Bridgestones. In the future, I will replace them with something starting with LT and having a C or D load rating. Maybe Michelin LTX A/T 265/75R16's. That would be add 1/2" to the height, and be much safer off-road. The odometer would take a 3.4% hit (that improves the warranty), but the speedometer would finally be right. I also think the ABS/VCS/Tracs ECU's could wouldn't notice the minor difference.
Beyond the 1/2" tire lift, I do need a solution to protecting the left and right underside of the rear bumper cover. Some sort of real skid plate or sacrificial add-on. Any suggestions would be welcome. I would be reluctant to consider lifts or air shocks, because I don't want to mess too much with the suspension or ride. Maybe TRD or Toyota off-road will offer something someday. In time there will be Sequoias in the junkyard with good rear bumper covers. Maybe I can make something suitable out of one of them.
Finally, I must say that it was a pure pleasure to cruise the western freeways at 75-80 mph. I never felt fatigued even after a full day of driving, and the vehicle generally performed flawlesly on the highway. On the other hand, it only got 15 - 16 mpg at 75 mph (I suppose it would have done better at 55 mph).
rruck1: Good to hear from you. Things have been quiet on the "I don't like SUVs" forum. Also been doing alot of travel, but good to know that there are some people not blinded by the love of their vehicle. You know what they say about those that smell their own exhaust too long.
I was alittle disappointed in the attempt at a "reasonable" discussion in response to other's questions on negotiating a better price from a dealer on a solid vehicle like the Sequoia. Not at all surprised by the parting shots from my good friend dforr. Nobody likes to find out that that others spent alot less buying the same vehicle. Probably explains his flames on this site and others in Edmunds. Abit immature, but to each his own.
SR5 was originally a Corolla as stated before . It stands for Sports Runabout 5-speed . Originally a Corolla the name stuck and it is used pretty liberally now . Hope this helps . See us Toyota salesman are good for something haha . Keep the questions coming guys . -CATFISH-
You're free to chat away if you've got something to add, and even if you don't (see many of my posts!). Anybody care to vote on who adds value to the site, cliffy1, dianne4toyota, heatwave3, slickrock, etc. Nominate away.
BTW, we practice equal opportunity puncturing of egos, big and small.
Sometimes it gets slow I know, like right now, I'm posting, so the average IQ gets dragged down quite a bit...
Honestly, you'll encounter loyalists anywhere you bring together owners of different makes. Some (like me) have had good experiences with a few makes (Isuzu, GMC, Toyota) and bad ones with others (Dodge, Jeep, Cadillac) and the only relevance that has is to MY situation. Others take what they want from my posts.
Toyota makes a good product, to me. Chevrolet almost got me into a Tahoe. It's that good folks. But I still have a lingering distrust for GM quality in general. (And I have family working at the GM Plant here in Shreveport.) So we'll save a little more to get that Toyota feeling (a good feeling) and rest easy with the peace of mind that comes with Toyota ownership. MY OPINION...
As far as dealers/sales staff posting here: keep it coming, folks. The occassional whiner may not like you being here, but I value your input, and it's gonna help me better educate myself.
Invoice v. MSRP--potato, potata. If you know where you are in your deal, it doesn't matter where you start from. Just be ready to walk if'n ya can't get yer deal! If I can't get my particular vehicle (7920-SR5 4WD) with my desired options (AC-dual air, AH-Alloy wheel pkg, GY-side curtains, CC-pwr cpt chairs, CQ-conv pkg, SR-roof) for my desired price (~$36,800) then I'll keep looking. If no one will take the deal, then the Tahoe/Yukon are back in the mix. It's all in how educated you are about the process, and how much you really want that rig.
As you can tell by the previous post and what I expect to follow, anyone should sell you the Sequoia with AC,AH,GY,CC,CQ,SR for 38800. This is what I do not understand, if a buyer is specific with color and equipment and is willing to wait for exactly what he/she wants there will be plenty of dealers that would be happy to get you the car. Good luck but be careful what you ask for because there is profit in 38800 and I believe if there is any type of profit "sell the car"! I hope you can get one from your local dealer, if not order the car and start on your next project in life.
I've been down that road. Local dealers don't want to waste the time preferencing our truck, and we don't want all the Gulf States adds, so we're pishing in da wind with the locals.
I've received decent offers from Southern California, but the shipping is not cheap, and the whole issue of shipping damage/liability comes into play. Dianne at Carson would be the only one I'd feel comfortable doing that type of deal with.
Truth be told, it's a hot commodity, and if we can't get one, I'll be disappointed with our second choice, only because of the VSC/Side Curtain Airbags. If Chevy had these, I'd be more apt to like the Tahoe. We'll see....
If you are saying no one in your area is interested in getting you a 7920 with AC, AH, GY, CC, CQ ,SR for 36800, someone needs to build me a dealership, buy into the Toyota franchise and we will sell some cars in La. We may not get rich right away but we will make a few friends! (I bet in the long run we would make a few dollars too!)
I agree! However, I just got an email this evening from a S. Louisiana dealer, and not a single 7920 with GY could be found. So, at this point, it's more of an availability issue on GST's part than a question of price. Even if I were willing (read: dumb) to pay MSRP for this model as spec'd, I can't get it in Gulf States' Region.
and 16 Sequoias here right now. Makes me think of high school. I found a neat site called classmates.com and started to check out my high school... anyone here go to Willow Glen High School, 75-76-77 grad? Wondering! I think I am just feeling a little nostalgic, and I do have a lot of contact with clients in Northern CA who I may already know and not realize I know ya!
Yes, and no. I'm still frustrated with this whole ordering thing. I wish you were closer, so I could just drive over and pick it up and pocket the $550 shipping. ARGHHH! I'll email you in a bit.
every one of my 7920's have GY except for one. 90% of my Sequoia inventory gets GY and I have an order-built black Limited with no GY and no RF! I know, odd car but I wanted to build a cheap Limited with sunroof and see how fast it sold.
Well not really , one cat and one catfish ? Is that a catfight . haha .. I found a new friend ... Di is a blast but I want her numbers (car sales that is) Not referring to her phone number . My wife might have something to say about that . She seems to know what she is doing , so if I can't sell it , would rather lose it to someone like her . Didn't mean to make you jealous .... besides you are in California ... I am in Tennessee .. Is the net making the world that small ? How far will someone go to get a good deal ... Hey how about you folks telling the farthest you have went to get a car . It should make an interesting discussion . Me personally about 15 miles is the limit .. lol ... (per Dianne) Good room here ...
You know, from most major cities (Dallas, Charlotte, St Louis), you can buy an airline ticket to LAX cheaper than the cost of shipping, ditch the return portion of the ticket, and drive your new SQ or Tundra home, and get a nice driving vacation to boot. I'll bet Di will even send someone to pick you up at the airport. ( Don't know if Cliffy will) Check air fares at www.travelocity.com My 2c worth.
Now there is a good idea .... I would also recommend Southwest.com ... Goto Click-n-save specials on Tuesday through Thursday they have some great deals . I would definately have someone picked up at the Airport in Nashville ... I am sure Cliffy and Dianne would do the same . I sell a lot of cars out of state (not as many as Diane) but quite a few and I agree you do miss that face to face .... Nice to see who ya talking to ...
But it sure ain'ta gettin' no cheaper! When I bought my first Toyota, an '89 SR5 V6 4Runner 4WD in Cardinal Red (wish I still had it) the sticker was around 18 grand. Can't believe how much they've gone up. But look at all the advances, too. VSC, Side Curtain Airbags, direct fuel injection, complex drive systems, the list goes on. That's progress, I suppose. Okay, I gotta go now. I'm getting boring, and Jerri just got voted off Survivor, so celebration time! See y'all tamarra.
Has anyone purchased a Sequoia SR5 in Canada. If so how much did they pay? I am not getting anywhere only MSRP and I have tried all over even autobuytel.
I have been shopping for a suv and I think I have decided on a Sequioa. Anyone know of a good dealer in the Midwest (I live in Iowa City). Are these going for MSRP? I was looking at the MDX and they would not budge from MSRP.
Cliffy and Dianne have both mentioned that you can not have on-site leather added to a car with GY. However, I have had four dealers INSIST that it is safe to do so. Three mentioned having the leather installed at port (Georgia & Florida dealers). The other said they have an on-site leather department that has put leather on a Sequoia with airbags in the seats. They insist that they remove the cloth and simply replace it with the leather, thereby not affecting the airbag function at all. Could this be accurate?
I mentioned the information I learned here to two of the dealers and they made some calls and changed their tune. Then I called Toyota customer service myself. They had me on hold a long time (showing that they were probably discussing how to answer my question). They said they "did not recommend" adding the leather--they said they would recommend instead it being added at the factory. I told the dealer I am working with what they said and he reiterated that they do put on-site leather on Sequoias with airbags with no problem. He INSISTED it was perfectly safe and would in no way affect the airbag function. He sounded very convincing. The cost difference is about $700-$800 between on-site leather and the PM package (I only care about getting leather--not the 6 disc CD and other features of the PM package--I hate to pay so much for features I don't care about). Who should I believe?
Or better yet, wait to see if you get hit hard enough and the side airbags didn't deploy properly.. due to leather installation. Maybe let it KILL someone near and dear to you. Then, see who means business when they write it right into the owners manuals for cars like Avalon with side airbags standard to NOT add aftermarket leather because it compromises the integrity of the seats and side airbags.
I am being very direct and succinct because I believe what I am telling you. On page 64 of the Highlander manual, for instance, it says very clearly: DO NOT MODIFY OR REPLACE THE SEATS OR UPHOLSTERY OF THE FRONT SEATS WITH THE SIDE AIRBAGS.... SUCH CHANGES MAY DISABLE THE SYSTEM OR CAUSE SIDE AIRBAGS TO INFLATE ACCIDENTALLY, RESULTING IN DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY...
Grrr! Stores that openly defy safety issues to make a buck just disgust me.
I live in Calgary. One of the dealers quoted me CDN$47738 for an SR5 with the 'type B' package. He said the MSRP would have been CDN$50900. I'm going to wait a few more months, and see how it goes.
curious 33. . . . if Diane's enthusiasm re not adding aftermarket leather doesn't convince you . . ask your "no problem/perfectly safe" dealer to put it in writing . . . . and watch the excuses develop . . .
All the literature that has been provided to me on Side Air Bags .... DOES NOT RECOMMEND aftermarket Leather .... That is how Car dealers get bad names , they give bad information (or the info they think the customer wants to hear) That just eats me up ... Why risk it ? Save a little money ? Is it really ? Please for the safety of your family don't do it , just because some salesperson who obviously could care less says there is no problem with it . I think aftermarket leather is great , but not on a vehicle with Side Air Bags .... I would refuse to add it to one of my customers vehicles w/ side air bags ... I like to sleep at night
Agree with all above...if you ask the salesamn to give it in writing and signed by the general manager you'll soon see the salesman return with top hat and cane.
Check out www.woodcorp.com. They've just released a kit for the Sequoia. They don't have color pictures available so I am going to hold off for now, I belive the price is $220 or so.
Enough bashing, let's give recognitions where due.
Picked up my SR5 4x4 on Saturday from a dealer in Minneapolis 1250 miles away (referred to by zinny2, thanks!). Got the GY option that I wanted.
Such a pleasant experience buying and owning this car (5 days at that) I would do it again in a heart beat. Very glad to have dealt with the dealer, he gave me a quote over the phone, didn't even bother to haggle a cent ($35,550 that's $550 over invoice). Without putting down a deposit, he prepped the SUV, and topped it with a full tank of gas, waiting for me to pickup saturday. Two hours later, I was driving down the highway.
Took the dealers's advice to vary the speed (not using cruise control) between 50-65 from MSP to Chicago on Saturday. A bit more than 400 miles trip of cruising comfort, how did Toyota do it? The SEQ doesn't drive like a truck, but you could certainly feel the solid body, and stability of the vehicle.
I'm glad I bought the 4WD. While going through IN, OH and PA, I ran into a snow storm Sunday morning, visibility was about 200 yards max. The traction felt great.
Lots of power in in that engine. I had to be mindful with the accelerator. Just a tap, and before I know it, I'd be effortlessly cruising at 85 mph. So, to be safe, and didn't want a ticket with the new vehicle I put it in cruise control at 75 MPH, around 2300 RPM the rest of the way.
Overall, 1200 miles ain't that far. Got me a car with the options that I wanted, for a great price and didn't have to wait 8 - 10 weeks for an order.
Email me at minh@ellesa.com if you want more info on the dealer.
1) Bose speakers set? What they got as standard option sounded very muffled. JBL might be a bit better but not the same as Bose.
2) Toyota Vision? This is the DVD video set mounted on the ceiling of the car. It's available as an option for the Sienna. The SEQ is such a nice cruising vehicle, when coupled with the Vision set, those long trips could be lots of fun even with lots of kiddies in the car.
3) Wireless access to the Internet with an USB port that allows you to plug in your PC or PALM to surf & retrieve email, download maps while on the road, at the beach etc. Dream on, I guess. On the other hand, it won't be long. The technologies are already available, just a matter of implementation.
I'm considering leasing an SR5 Model #7910 4x2 DE,AR,AL,CC,A,IQ,AC,F. MSRP is $34,960. I've negotiated a purchase price of $31,560. Invoice I'm told is $31,260. For a 60 month lease, 15,000 miles per year, and $2,000 total due at inception my monthly pat is with sales tax is $370. Good deal?
I live in Minnesota and can confirm what Minski has said. Craig Fuhs seems to be too good to be true. I think generally in this area you can negotiate a SEQ for about $500 over invoice. For some reason this area is selling less expensive Sequoias.
I have an order for a 4X4 SR5 SEQ with CC AH CQ DR GY RL G4 GN for $33,900. If you want to email me at wstill1071@aol.com I will send you Craig's phone number and other contact info.
for the info! $550 over invoice sounds like an amazing deal, and on the exact truck we're looking for. That's about a thousand less that the best internet quote I've received to date. mountainman, at this price, the DFW-MSP ticket makes sense, and that will be the likely route. What's Craig Fuhs email, phone #, and name of dealership? I have family in Robbinsdale, so overnight before I drive is easy. Man, the internet has saved me on this one...thought I'd be rollin' in a Tahoe-hoe. THANKS AGAIN GUYS/GALS
Craig's email is cfuhs@isd.net. He is the Sales Manager at Wilkins Toyota. I feel kinda funny give phone numbers out over the internet like this so if you want to email me, I would be happy to send it to you that way. I also have a few others who were willing to go $500 over invoice but I stuck with Craig.
Just so you know...SPRING HAS NOT SPRUNG in Minnesota yet....34 degrees and snowing.
Give a call to Uebelhor in Jasper, Indiana. It's a bit of a drive, but people come from all over to get a good deal there. Me, for example. I'm driving three hours from Indianapolis (which has four Toyota dealerships) because these guys are willing to take time and to get the vehicle my wife wants. Remember...if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. Louie
You said it right, there! The Trooper wasn't a bad vehicle, but she wasn't happy. Hence the quick (for us) switch after less than two years. We will be keeping the Sequoia much longer than that, I'd project at least eight years. It's the most expensive vehicle either of us has ever bought, but what it has (safety, room, durability, comfort, versatility) matches perfectly with our current and future needs/wants. The Trooper was way too much impulse-buying, and in retrospect, a dumb decision on our part. That's why I'm putting so much effort into making sure we get EXACTLY what we want, no more, no less.
I was off yesterday and was amazed to see 67 new posts since Wednesday night. It seems your very insightful post on the off road handling went unnoticed by most. The conditions you ran the Sequoia under were MUCH more extreme than 99.9% of buyers will ever do. I'm glad to see it did as well as you described.
From your descriptions, it seems my hunch was correct about the rev limiter. I know this will kick in when in 2WD, but I have not been able to make it engage in 4WD. I am glad to see your experiences match mine. I was a bit nervous about this.
Thanks for the well done off road review. I hope more people take the time to go back and read it.
Can anyone tell me if destination charge of $480 and Toyota regional advertising fee of $620 are fair to charge? I'm ordering a 4x4 SR5 with AC, AH. CQ. DR. GY. PM RL and SR. With dest. and advertising fee and dealer set profit of $1,200, and $6 gas charge, the cost of the thing is $38,597. Please educate me on this matter. Thanks.
The destination fee of $480 is normal and every dealer must pay it.
The TDA fee varies by region. $620 is high, but not the highest. In Northern CA, it runs a bit higher. In the Central Atlantic Region, we pay 2.1% of base invoice and there is no cap. Southern CA is capped at $300, the mid west is capped at $250. The Northeast is at 2% with no cap. This is a real invoiced expense that the dealers are not reimbursed for. This has been discussed at length recently.
I totally agree with the following. I too own a Toyota product.......well not exactly, but made by the same company.....Lexus LX 470. Yes.....if you can't appreciate it...then that is too bad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 960 of 1811 hoot...hoot by thirdsuv Feb 09, 2001 (03:55 pm) Can't pass up the razzing...enjoy
"why don't I just break the bank and get a brand new 2002 Cadillac Escalade for $50,000? "
All that means is that you'll be "breaking down in style". Come on, 10-15K$ bump over Yuckon/Towmehome for a bigger engine and softer leather?????
BMW4.4.....leave it to BMW to fullfill the market niche of SUV drivers who feel the need to go 100mph
SEQ towing capacity.... It's enough to tow your Esscalade back to the dealer for repair
"I'll be the first one to the next light in my Vortec" No, it's more likely your be in the ROAD BERM of the next light with the hood up trying to figure out what broke....again
Comments
I have recently test driven a similarly equipped yukon and feel like the Seq. is all round a better vehicle. I love the performance of the smaller Seq. engine - it is very smooth, has excellent acceleration - I found the yukon to be a bit sluggish.
It also drives "smaller" than the yukon IMO and of course the fit and finish seemed better.
The Seq. sticker was $38,700. Yeah, I live in the southeast (charleston,sc) and was a bit confused when it came time to break down this invoice for comparison purposes.
the bottom line is the best price they would give me was about $2,000 off their MSRP.
My problem is that my wife and I already have primary vehicles and we are trying to replace a 98 pathfinder that we use to tow the jet ski and go on the road for football games. We've had the vehicle for nearly three yrs and have 20,000 miles on it. The pathfinder has been a great vehicle, not one single problem, but it just is not quite big enough or comfortable enough to bring on the road. My wife drives an older mercedes 380 sl and I drive a company-paid-for sedan.
Had the dealer given me an unbelievable deal I may have jumped at it but I'll continue to drive other models and see what I do. My friend at the caddy dealer has a used escalade coming off a lease with about 35,000 miles and I might look at it, or I may opt for a used tahoe,yukon or suburbun for around $25,000.
In the end I may end up right back with the Sequoia but hope the prices come down alittle. If anyone has had any experience with the 2000 escalade or thinks they have a better idea for me to consider based on my situation I would love to hear from you.
BTW, when I returned the Seq. this mornin it was rainin really bad, bot the vehicle made you feel like the king of the road in the downpour - very impressive.
I spent a fair amount time off-road last week in Moab, Utah, and learned quite a bit about how the Sequoia performs in actual off-road conditions. The trails were rated up to 3 1/2 (at 4 you risk vehicle damage), and included sand, slickrock (sandstone), streams, and slopes. I have some pictures, but haven't figured out exactly how to share them here.
First let me say that my baseline is an older ('84) stick-shift Landcruiser, so while the Sequoia was different, it was familiar in many ways. Here are some observations and possible points for later discussion.
The Sequoia can do trails rated up to 2 1/2 in high range. Beyond that you need low range. I will limit the rest of the discussion here to low range performance.
In low range, the Sequoia has plenty of engine and braking power for the steepest hills (~35 degrees) that I tried. It also had no power problems climbing ledges, but traction was sometimes an issue when there was loose dirt mixes in with the rock.
I did some experimentation in Low/Low (locked center differential) vs Low/Second (VCS/Tracs). What I found was that you had to turn VCS off, otherwise it kicked in (and messed with the throttle and braking) when you didn't want it to, because the wheels will slip on sand and dirt.
On the other hand, I ran into at least one case climbing a dirty rock ledge where L/L wouldn't make it up(diagonally opposite wheels were slipping), but L/S (and Active-Trac) got me up. It was not smooth or quiet, but it outperformed the locked center differential.
However L/S was deadly going down hill (on steep hills). There was definitely insufficient engine braking. But you don't need (or want) Active-Trac going down hill. So my rules for off-road driving-mode selection are actually pretty simple:
1. In 4WD Low Range off-road, turn off VCS (push the button) and use L/D.
2. In Low Range going up a difficult hill, use L/S (Active-Trac).
3. In Low Range going down a difficult hill, use L/L (Max. Engine Braking).
The second thing I noticed is that size matters. The Sequoia is long and wide. The width came into play in maneuvering around large (>1 ft.) rocks on the sides of the trails and narrow trails. There were also some very tight turns that required a bit of jockying. But it's better than a Hummer, and to tell the truth, the tightest turns were in the City Market parking lot.
The length is another story. The Sequoia is a looooong truck. It has plenty of ground clearance (I may have hit the skidplates once or twice), and so the breakover angle was not a big issue. I thought the running boards would take hits, but they are high enough and tucked in well enough that they were not a problem. But I would want to remove them (8 bolts each) before trying a 4-rated trail.
I only touched the underside of the front bumper once, so I am satisfied with the approach angle. But the departure angle (and that long tail) leaves a lot to be desired. I hit the trailer hitch receiver many times (that's to be expected -- I consider it part of the skid plate system). But I also hit the underside of the giant one-piece plastic rear bumper a few times (which is 2" higher, but who said the rock was perfectly level).
The PLASTIC bumper is definitely not part of the skid plate system (or at least not for very long). Hey Toyota people who supposedly read this board, when sandstone meets plastic, guess what always wins!! This was a design mistake.
So crossing gullys (and any other concave surface) became an interesting challenge, and I would have to say that the limiting factor to the Sequoia's off-road performance is the integrity of the giant one-piece rear plastic bumper cover.
Do 2001 4-Runners and Land Cruisers also have these plastic bumber covers??
I should also mention tires. I did these trails with some trepidation given the stock passenger car Bridgestones. In the future, I will replace them with something starting with LT and having a C or D load rating. Maybe Michelin LTX A/T 265/75R16's. That would be add 1/2" to the height, and be much safer off-road. The odometer would take a 3.4% hit (that improves the warranty), but the speedometer would finally be right. I also think the ABS/VCS/Tracs ECU's could wouldn't notice the minor difference.
Beyond the 1/2" tire lift, I do need a solution to protecting the left and right underside of the rear bumper cover. Some sort of real skid plate or sacrificial add-on. Any suggestions would be welcome. I would be reluctant to consider lifts or air shocks, because I don't want to mess too much with the suspension or ride. Maybe TRD or Toyota off-road will offer something someday. In time there will be Sequoias in the junkyard with good rear bumper covers. Maybe I can make something suitable out of one of them.
Finally, I must say that it was a pure pleasure to cruise the western freeways at 75-80 mph. I never felt fatigued even after a full day of driving, and the vehicle generally performed flawlesly on the highway. On the other hand, it only got 15 - 16 mpg at 75 mph (I suppose it would have done better at 55 mph).
I was alittle disappointed in the attempt at a "reasonable" discussion in response to other's questions on negotiating a better price from a dealer on a solid vehicle like the Sequoia. Not at all surprised by the parting shots from my good friend dforr. Nobody likes to find out that that others spent alot less buying the same vehicle. Probably explains his flames on this site and others in Edmunds. Abit immature, but to each his own.
BTW, we practice equal opportunity puncturing of egos, big and small.
Honestly, you'll encounter loyalists anywhere you bring together owners of different makes. Some (like me) have had good experiences with a few makes (Isuzu, GMC, Toyota) and bad ones with others (Dodge, Jeep, Cadillac) and the only relevance that has is to MY situation. Others take what they want from my posts.
Toyota makes a good product, to me. Chevrolet almost got me into a Tahoe. It's that good folks. But I still have a lingering distrust for GM quality in general. (And I have family working at the GM Plant here in Shreveport.) So we'll save a little more to get that Toyota feeling (a good feeling) and rest easy with the peace of mind that comes with Toyota ownership. MY OPINION...
As far as dealers/sales staff posting here: keep it coming, folks. The occassional whiner may not like you being here, but I value your input, and it's gonna help me better educate myself.
Invoice v. MSRP--potato, potata. If you know where you are in your deal, it doesn't matter where you start from. Just be ready to walk if'n ya can't get yer deal! If I can't get my particular vehicle (7920-SR5 4WD) with my desired options (AC-dual air, AH-Alloy wheel pkg, GY-side curtains, CC-pwr cpt chairs, CQ-conv pkg, SR-roof) for my desired price (~$36,800) then I'll keep looking. If no one will take the deal, then the Tahoe/Yukon are back in the mix. It's all in how educated you are about the process, and how much you really want that rig.
My 2 centavos...
Bobby
PS Prefer Silver Sky with Lt. Charcoal, but we'll take Thunder Gray, Natural White, or Jade with Lt. Charcoal as 2nd, 3rd, 4th choices.
I've received decent offers from Southern California, but the shipping is not cheap, and the whole issue of shipping damage/liability comes into play. Dianne at Carson would be the only one I'd feel comfortable doing that type of deal with.
Truth be told, it's a hot commodity, and if we can't get one, I'll be disappointed with our second choice, only because of the VSC/Side Curtain Airbags. If Chevy had these, I'd be more apt to like the Tahoe. We'll see....
Di, sorry to be so scarce but I have been unbelievably swamped.
Di
Di
The Prolific CATFISH
Cheers
Mountainman
THE PROLIFIC CATFISH
I have been shopping for a suv and I think I have decided on a Sequioa. Anyone know of a good dealer in the Midwest (I live in Iowa City). Are these going for MSRP? I was looking at the MDX and they would not budge from MSRP.
Thanks you in advance.
GIPP
I mentioned the information I learned here to two of the dealers and they made some calls and changed their tune. Then I called Toyota customer service myself. They had me on hold a long time (showing that they were probably discussing how to answer my question). They said they "did not recommend" adding the leather--they said they would recommend instead it being added at the factory. I told the dealer I am working with what they said and he reiterated that they do put on-site leather on Sequoias with airbags with no problem. He INSISTED it was perfectly safe and would in no way affect the airbag function. He sounded very convincing. The cost difference is about $700-$800 between on-site leather and the PM package (I only care about getting leather--not the 6 disc CD and other features of the PM package--I hate to pay so much for features I don't care about). Who should I believe?
I am being very direct and succinct because I believe what I am telling you. On page 64 of the Highlander manual, for instance, it says very clearly:
DO NOT MODIFY OR REPLACE THE SEATS OR UPHOLSTERY OF THE FRONT SEATS WITH THE SIDE AIRBAGS.... SUCH CHANGES MAY DISABLE THE SYSTEM OR CAUSE SIDE AIRBAGS TO INFLATE ACCIDENTALLY, RESULTING IN DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY...
Grrr! Stores that openly defy safety issues to make a buck just disgust me.
Dianne
Catfish
thanks
Same color at that, Silver & Charcoal.
Bought from Wilkins Toyota in the Minneapolis area the sales guy was Craig Fuhs
Flew in from Richmond, picked up Saturday put on 1250 miles on Sat & Sun. Average about 17.5 mpg.
Picked up my SR5 4x4 on Saturday from a dealer in Minneapolis 1250 miles away (referred to by zinny2, thanks!). Got the GY option that I wanted.
Such a pleasant experience buying and owning this car (5 days at that) I would do it again in a heart beat. Very glad to have dealt with the dealer, he gave me a quote over the phone, didn't even bother to haggle a cent ($35,550 that's $550 over invoice). Without putting down a deposit, he prepped the SUV, and topped it with a full tank of gas, waiting for me to pickup saturday. Two hours later, I was driving down the highway.
Took the dealers's advice to vary the speed (not using cruise control) between 50-65 from MSP to Chicago on Saturday. A bit more than 400 miles trip of cruising comfort, how did Toyota do it? The SEQ doesn't drive like a truck, but you could certainly feel the solid body, and stability of the vehicle.
I'm glad I bought the 4WD. While going through IN, OH and PA, I ran into a snow storm Sunday morning, visibility was about 200 yards max. The traction felt great.
Lots of power in in that engine. I had to be mindful with the accelerator. Just a tap, and before I know it, I'd be effortlessly cruising at 85 mph. So, to be safe, and didn't want a ticket with the new vehicle I put it in cruise control at 75 MPH, around 2300 RPM the rest of the way.
Overall, 1200 miles ain't that far. Got me a car with the options that I wanted, for a great price and didn't have to wait 8 - 10 weeks for an order.
Email me at minh@ellesa.com if you want more info on the dealer.
2) Toyota Vision? This is the DVD video set mounted on the ceiling of the car. It's available as an option for the Sienna. The SEQ is such a nice cruising vehicle, when coupled with the Vision set, those long trips could be lots of fun even with lots of kiddies in the car.
3) Wireless access to the Internet with an USB port that allows you to plug in your PC or PALM to surf & retrieve email, download maps while on the road, at the beach etc. Dream on, I guess. On the other hand, it won't be long. The technologies are already available, just a matter of implementation.
I did the fly-drive round trip to pick up the SUV last weekend from them. And they had GY option on the ones they quoted me.
I have an order for a 4X4 SR5 SEQ with CC AH CQ DR GY RL G4 GN for $33,900. If you want to email me at wstill1071@aol.com I will send you Craig's phone number and other contact info.
Good luck.
zinny
Just so you know...SPRING HAS NOT SPRUNG in Minnesota yet....34 degrees and snowing.
regards,
zinny
Remember...if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
Louie
Louie
You said it right, there! The Trooper wasn't a bad vehicle, but she wasn't happy. Hence the quick (for us) switch after less than two years. We will be keeping the Sequoia much longer than that, I'd project at least eight years. It's the most expensive vehicle either of us has ever bought, but what it has (safety, room, durability, comfort, versatility) matches perfectly with our current and future needs/wants. The Trooper was way too much impulse-buying, and in retrospect, a dumb decision on our part. That's why I'm putting so much effort into making sure we get EXACTLY what we want, no more, no less.
Zinny, thanks for the email address...
Bobby
CATFISH
From your descriptions, it seems my hunch was correct about the rev limiter. I know this will kick in when in 2WD, but I have not been able to make it engage in 4WD. I am glad to see your experiences match mine. I was a bit nervous about this.
Thanks for the well done off road review. I hope more people take the time to go back and read it.
AC, AH. CQ. DR. GY. PM RL and SR. With dest. and advertising fee and dealer set profit of $1,200, and $6 gas charge, the cost of the thing is $38,597. Please educate me on this matter. Thanks.
The TDA fee varies by region. $620 is high, but not the highest. In Northern CA, it runs a bit higher. In the Central Atlantic Region, we pay 2.1% of base invoice and there is no cap. Southern CA is capped at $300, the mid west is capped at $250. The Northeast is at 2% with no cap. This is a real invoiced expense that the dealers are not reimbursed for. This has been discussed at length recently.
zinny
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960 of 1811 hoot...hoot by thirdsuv Feb 09, 2001 (03:55 pm)
Can't pass up the razzing...enjoy
"why don't I just break the bank and get a brand new 2002 Cadillac Escalade for $50,000? "
All that means is that you'll be "breaking down in style". Come on, 10-15K$ bump over Yuckon/Towmehome for a bigger engine and softer leather?????
BMW4.4.....leave it to BMW to fullfill the
market niche of SUV drivers who feel the need to go 100mph
SEQ towing capacity....
It's enough to tow your Esscalade back to the dealer for repair
"I'll be the first one to the next light in my Vortec"
No, it's more likely your be in the ROAD BERM
of the next light with the hood up trying to figure out what broke....again
cheers
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YES CHEERS, AGAIN!!!!