Those are some pretty sobering numbers. Makes it kinda obvious (at least to me) that some small changes can lead to big dividends, without ending life as we know it.
I wouldn't want to put a sign on my car either, if I was delivering...for exactly the reasons you mention. People will screw with you. If they want a sign, they can provide the car.
I find that figure for Japan a bit hard to believe. If the Prius is the best they got, it only gets 48 MPG on average. We know the rest are at best in the 30s. They are as anal as the US about diesel so where is that figure coming from?
I wonder how many of you all have similar stories -- how you're scrimping in other parts of your budgets to pay for higher gas, higher food, etc.?
We were at the Safeway in Hilo last evening. The store was full of people doing their weekly shopping. Carts were full of soda, cereal and frozen pizza. The produce department was nearly empty. The fact is one out of every two families in Hawaii are on some sort of assistance. So how do they afford all this processed junk food and soda? I saw an article on food stamps in NJ. The max you can get is $542 per month with a family of 4. I could eat steak once a week on that much money. Maybe folks will start thinking about what they put in their bellies when it starts to cost like it does in the rest of the world. Eating out in not a necessity, it is a LUXURY. When I was a kid we did not eat out 5 times a year. There is still plenty of room for higher gas prices in even the poorest budget.
Kind of deceptive. It is the NY Times so I guess that is to be expected. I don't think Japan can reach that goal without allowing diesel cars and PU trucks.
Lots of small cars and small engines, plus the Japanese driving cycle assumes more low-speed driving. A good rule of thumb is that the base engine in the US version of a car is the big engine in the Japanese version.
We are enjoying a papaya every morning with bananas. We found a lady selling great sourdough bread at one of the farmers markets. Papayas are selling as little as 6 for a $1. The big strawberry papayas are 4 for a buck. Tomatoes are about the same as San Diego at a dollar a pound. I could eat very well on about $5 per day here. Of course we do have our favorite restaurants that would skew that figure. It is a luxury we like.
Gas is holding at $3.65 per gallon here. Filled the Equinox once and got 20.63 MPG. Life is tough...
Facts are facts. Whether they reach that goal or not, they (and the EU) have set a higher standard than the US. Why is that?
drum roll ... follow the money. And I don't mean the pittance that Mr. Gore is bringing in. :shades:
Detroit keeps building dinosaurs, the chicken tax keeps Chevy Luv type trucks from Thailand out, and the rest of us pay at the pump.
You must be having an awful time in Hawaii - is it raining non-stop or something? I hope you at least have a laptop out on the lanai. Not that we don't enjoy your company, but dude, surf's up.
I find that figure for Japan a bit hard to believe. If the Prius is the best they got, it only gets 48 MPG on average. We know the rest are at best in the 30s. They are as anal as the US about diesel so where is that figure coming from?
Well if Japan's figures are anything like the US figures, they use different numbers for fleet averages than they do for what's in the window stickers. For instance, that 27.5 that gets thrown around for US cars is taken from radically different, much more optimistic numbers than what gets printed on the EPA sticker.
For example remember when the Prius was rated something like 61/50? Well the CAFE numbers are even more generous than that. They'd probably put a Prius at something like 75/60!
The Japanese also have all sorts of cars for the home market that are much smaller than what they sell here. A Yaris or Fit is probably considered midsize over there! :surprise:
I think you have the picture on the US ever getting close to the rest of the World on mileage. It ain't in the cards. I am not a surfer. I am waiting for the tide to come in so I can go downstairs to go snorkeling. I have a great view from here of the water coming into the lagoon.
"Kind of deceptive. It is the NY Times so I guess that is to be expected. I don't think Japan can reach that goal without allowing diesel cars and PU trucks."
Don't forget, a huge percentage of their fleet is tiny tiny cars making 50 mpg plus. The Prius is FAR from the "best they've got". In Japan Prius is a large car. It's clearly time for Americans to downsize. Even China is making/shooting for 36 mpg! Now if they could just get out of the business of powering everything with dirty coal plants, that would be very meaningful...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There's a problem with Americans downsizing. Just by nature we tend to be physically larger than Asians....and no I'm not talking about waistline, I'm talking about height (though there is also the waistline issue with some, heh).
In other words, Americans might not easily fit in some of these cars that are being built for Asia.
Not quite as nice a neighborhood as gagrice, but hopefully my next house.
I've just bought a new car - a Mazdaspeed 6 - I like the size, sportiness, and AWD for New England winters. My GF got my used Jag X-Type. The 6 requires premium per the manual (93, with 91 OK), with the Jag suggesting 91 octane, but can use 87. We use 93, with a little 87 mixed in the Jag.
I'm signing a P&S on a house today 5-6 miles from work vs. my 3.9 miles from my apartment. So a little more gas, but very reasonable. Since my GF and I both rent separate places, we will save a lot - not having 2 sets of bills. The house is oil-heat with a 500gal tank, but a new really efficient furnace. I'm also having them reinstall the wood-stove, and there is a lot of hardwood on the land. So some pluses and minuses.
Actually the high cost of gas may be helping some people, as a higher cost of living forces more foreclosures, and lowers real estate values. So are there people getting a house for $50K less, for the price of paying $1,000 more /year in gas? Probably yes.
I've got my summer vacation planned and paid for, and $5/gal gas would not stop it - actually going to the NJ beaches, and NJ has the cheapest gas.
we can't really compare one country's fuel economy numbers to another's without using the same testing methodology. Even within the US there are two systems. The NYT article correctly states that Honda has all but achieved the 2020 CAFE standards today with their current fleet.
But that's using the NHTSA testing criteria which is at least 30+ years old. Those numbers are inflated by about 20% ( c.f. article herein on Edmunds about 35 mpg actually meaning 27-28 mpg ).
But Japan and Europe use different methods entirely. Also each has different emissions controls.
Nice purchases there - both the house and car. Wouldn't mind a Mazdaspeed 6 myself.
Where down the Jersey shore? We've got some nice places and some crazy ones. I live 5 miles off the ocean down here.
On topic, I did one thing on the subject of expensive gas. I bought a 99 Celica convertible. Now I only need to drive the Ody when I need something that big.
Before any one points out that this isn't saving me money I already know that but it made it more reasonable to do something I wanted to do.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
the picture looks great, but what's the water temperature? i hate cold water (giving gary another to do some needling). that's a cute slipper you have on. :surprise:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Bike messengers are popular in large cities like New York. I wonder if anyone has thought about trying the idea for delivery of other things?
Most takeout food in Manhattan is delivered either on foot, or by bike... different in the outer boroughs though.
On of my "never forget" moments of living in Manhattan follows: In my 5th floor apartment one early summer evening - windows open, so I can hear some street noise. I hear a bang, and some cursing, so I go to the window, looking for street theater. Seems like a cabbie and a bike delivery guy had a near miss (near hit?) and food is all over the street, but no one is injured.... and I hear this from my upstairs neighbor... "Yo!, You delivering for 'Noodles on 28'?" No time wasted on "are you ok?"
That is actually my wife's foot. She is reading and did not want in the picture. The pina colada glass is a candle. We are saving energy in the evenings with a candle. The water is a bit chilly for me at 78 degrees. I like it about 80. Water and air temps about the same.
"In other words, Americans might not easily fit in some of these cars that are being built for Asia."
Not necessarily, I have known people that are large/tall that fit rather well in small cars. One person was about 6'3" and 270 pounds. He drove a tiny Civic back in 1980. Another friend was 6'3" and 200 pounds. His wheels were a Geo Metro. Proper design is the key.
Another example, I found the Suburban for all its bulk to be about the same in the front passenger seat when compared to my car.
say that the DOT will propose 35.7 mpg as the new number to meet by 2015. Funny how they announce that on Terra Firma day. It really should be Blue Planet day since most of earth is covered by ocean.
On the same page the Detroit news had an article on "Gas guzzlers a hit in China"
...is more and more people on bicycles. My, how the worm has turned! We're riding bicycles in the USA and people in China are enjoying their gas-guzzlers! Thanks, corporate America for selling the U.S. to the lowest bidder!
It really depends on the vehicle. I've tried out several cars "for fit" as it were and couldn't get the seat to lower far enough to keep my head from hitting the headliner.
The thing is, that seems to happen a lot more with Asian cars, simply because they don't get as tall as Americans typically. And I'm only 6 feet tall.
I'm also opposed to leaning the seat back to get more headroom, which I've seen a lot of people do.
Where down the Jersey shore? We've got some nice places and some crazy ones. I live 5 miles off the ocean down here.
I go all the way - Cape May - specifically the Inn of Cape May. They have a nice package, about $150/night w/free full breakfast and $50/day in the restaurant-bar. It's right across from the beach in the center of the town.
NJ is pretty nice in most parts, outside of Camden and Newark.
The ocean north of Cape Cod is too chilly for me.
Good choice on the Celica. Fun and inexpensive. I'll keep my car insurance though and not yours - I pay about $500/year in NH for my Speed6.
Not necessarily, I have known people that are large/tall that fit rather well in small cars. One person was about 6'3" and 270 pounds. He drove a tiny Civic back in 1980. Another friend was 6'3" and 200 pounds. His wheels were a Geo Metro. Proper design is the key.
I think how masochistic you are is more key here, rather than "proper design". I'm 6'3", and about 200 pounds, and know I'd be miserable in either of those cars. One thing to keep in mind is that not all 6'3", 200 pound people are built the same way. In my case, I need a lot of legroom, but headroom is usually not too much of an issue. And I need my legroom to be the type where I can stretch out. Some cars with a tall seating position might boast a good measurement for legroom, but in my experience you're just too close to the firewall to really be able to stretch out. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather be stretched out in a livingroom recliner than perched on a cheap, thin kitchen chair.
Interestingly, the Fit's front legroom is published at 41.9". For comparison, my 2000 Intrepid is 42.2", and I dug up some old stats for my '79 New Yorker and '76 LeMans that put them at 42.3" and 42.5", respectively. However, from sitting in them all, I can tell you that there's a lot more than 6/10" of an inch difference between a Fit and my LeMans! However, the LeMans does have a power seat that goes into some pretty contorted positions. It has a much wider range of motion than my New Yorker. Whenever they list front seat legroom dimensions, they must have some kind of standard they put the seat at, because I notice that on cars with a power seat, the dimension is the same as an equivalent car without a power seat. For instance, an Intrepid R/T or ES would have a power seat, but it's listed at the same 42.2" as my base model, which just has manual fore/aft.
If you're comparing an '02 Avalon to a Suburban, I'd agree with you on the legroom and headroom front. Those Avalons are very roomy cars in that degree. They're a bit narrow inside, noticeably narrower than a Suburban. But that's really only going to come into play if you need 3-across seating. The Avalon is also very slab-sided, almost like a mid-60's car, so you don't have the sides curving in, cutting into passenger space like they do on most modern cars.
Now back in high school and college, a friend of mine had a 1980 Accord hatchback. I drove it a few times, and it was a pretty good fit for me. Well, at the time at least. That was 20 years ago. Dunno if I'd be able to tolerated it nowadays! :P
Good choice! Cape May is great. I'm an hour north. When you go past exit 63 on the Parkway be sure to wave.
Sometime in August I'll do the Cape May ferry which is great. About 70 minutes out on the water and you're in Lewes, Delaware which is another nice little town. Spend the day and take an evening ferry back. Makes for a good day and, staying on topic, saves gas....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Well, I can tolerate quite a bit...after all, I was able to tolerate driving that thing all the way up to Pennsylvania. And I was masochistic enough to do it twice!
Actually, if it weren't for the skimpy legroom, it wouldn't be a bad little car, but it just forces me into a cramped position that's really uncomfortable for my legs. Headroom in the car is pretty good, although there's too much curvature in the sides for my tastes. The steering column is also too low for my tastes. Now if I just needed to hop in the car for 5-10 minutes, it would be fine. But it's not a good long distance car. Not for me, at least.
I'd probably have the same problem with the Aveo...tight legroom. I think the Aveo's seat might be a bit higher than my uncle's Corolla, though, so that would be an improvement if it gives me some thigh support. Still, the Aveo is roomy for a small car. Actually, for its small size, the Corolla is pretty roomy. But it still can't escape the fact that it's a small car, and if you're used to the comfort of a midsized or large car (or even an "old school" compact like a '68 Dart :P ), it's still going to be a compromise.
Now the Civic feels a lot more comfy inside to me. It has a somewhat lanky ~106" wheelbase, which a few years back would have been indicative of a midsized car. I'm actually pretty comfortable behind the wheel of a Cobalt or G5. But if I'm going to get a car that small, I'm getting it for the fuel economy, and I don't think a Cobalt is really any more economical than a 4-cyl Accord, Camry, Altima, or Malibu.
Oil just hit $118. Gasoline soon to follow higher. It's already at $3.50 national average.
The jitters from Nigeria have gotten their predictable publicity. Next month, we have the "summer driving season," so that effect is near. Then, the next month begins "hurricane season." So we can expect plenty of doomsday predictions, along with another "cautionary rise" in oil prices.
Consumers can't cover $4 gasoline (and $5.50 diesel). The U.S. economy can't absorb it.
I just hedged my position on gas. Filled the boat and Suburban up which I just spent about $180 at the gas station. The tank in the burb will last about two weeks and the I shouldn't have to buy more gas for the boat until June.
Restaurants around here are still jammed. Went for a boat ride last night, and people were using the lake. Drove around Chicago (I80 to I94) over the weekend and the traffic was heavy and traveling 80+. I guess time is still more valuable than gas.
Consumers can't cover $4 gasoline (and $5.50 diesel). The U.S. economy can't absorb it.
Sure it can; but some adjustments might be needed to compensate, and people of lower income may have to give up some things. 1) many employers could go to (4) 10-hr days. There is no golden-rule that businesses run (5) 8-hr days. 2) people will move closer to work, or take a job closer to home. 3) people may walk and bike more to local stores. 4) people will choose to shop at the closer stores rather than drive further. 5) People may take trips to closer spots - the lake 10 miles away rather than 30 miles away. 6) People may decide they rather have money for gas, than spend $100/month on cable and cell-phone. Or wasting money on their 15th Chinese-made "designer" purse, or upgrading their perfectly fine golf-clubs.
And lastly before you get everyone all gloomy and doomy, higher gas prices is not the end of the world. Other countries with lower GDP, and individual incomes are getting along ok with these prices.
Yeah, that "attack" on the Nigerian pipeline might in reality be some kid tapping on it with a rubber mallet. The "rocket shot" at a Japanese tanker might be somebody messing around with a bottle rocket. I think the oil companies and the mainstream media are in collusion to drive up the prices. What's next, "Sheik Sneezes! Oil Jumps to $150 a Barrel?"
Will states start suspending gas taxes? Will the Feds start suspending gas taxes? Clearly the voters will be in a really bad mood so which political party is going to get whacked hardest?
I know in CA they will probably add tax to gas as part of their plan to cut CO2. We are at about 64 cents per gallon last I checked and 72 cents per gallon on diesel. Highest fuel taxes in the Nation. If people really take a hard look at their Senators and Congressmen they will not vote for any incumbent. Both parties are feeding at the lobbyist trough. Pelosi did promise to lower the price of gas if we voted the Democrats into office in 2006. Not sure what her plan was/is. It is not working.
"Yeah, that "attack" on the Nigerian pipeline might in reality be some kid tapping on it with a rubber mallet."
Nope, it's real, and it's a major problem. Shell Oil, a major player there, is having to deal with much lower than planned production because of the constant attacks and kidnapping. And the hoped-for gush of Iraqi oil is very slow in coming because of the same kind of problems. This stuff ain't made up!
Other countries also get by living in tin shacks and eating mud pies. Hey, maybe we can adopt Haitian Mud Cookies with an American flavor! There's Iowa Clarion, Alabama Red Clay, Mississippi Silt, Louisiana Loam, and Texas Topsoil!
The $1/gallon gas is usually found in oil-producing countries, where the government heads/dictators subsidize the price to keep people happy, typically while using much of the remainder to line their own pockets.
Whereas we have $4 per gallon gas. oil companies are making record profits, and the government gives tax rebates to the oil companies to line their pockets. And the people are unhappy.
Maybe there's something to be said for dictatorship. :shades:
Having said that, China's gas is under $3 and not going anywhere. And their economy, as a result, is absolutely booming. Ours, to compare, is slowly sinking.
I tried to get comfortable in both the Civic and Accord a couple years ago. My head was touching the headliner. I am also just 6 foot tall. I like the sitting position in a PU or SUV for long drives. I am more relaxed and my back does not hurt at the end of a long day. Many of the current vehicles have gone to hard seats which I find uncomfortable as well.
The truth is they can make comfortable vehicles that get 35 MPG. We just don't get them in the USA. So we have to use more fuel or live our lives to suit other people.
Comments
Burning Through Oil
One factoid from the graphic - current new car mpg fleet standards are 27.5/22.2 in the US; 46 in Japan and 43 in the EU.
Those are some pretty sobering numbers. Makes it kinda obvious (at least to me) that some small changes can lead to big dividends, without ending life as we know it.
I wouldn't want to put a sign on my car either, if I was delivering...for exactly the reasons you mention. People will screw with you. If they want a sign, they can provide the car.
Ok, a quick skim says that "the Japanese carmaker’s fleet already averages 35 miles a gallon."
The graphic was the new car fleet requirement, so another 11 mpg seems doable from where they are starting.
We were at the Safeway in Hilo last evening. The store was full of people doing their weekly shopping. Carts were full of soda, cereal and frozen pizza. The produce department was nearly empty. The fact is one out of every two families in Hawaii are on some sort of assistance. So how do they afford all this processed junk food and soda? I saw an article on food stamps in NJ. The max you can get is $542 per month with a family of 4. I could eat steak once a week on that much money. Maybe folks will start thinking about what they put in their bellies when it starts to cost like it does in the rest of the world. Eating out in not a necessity, it is a LUXURY. When I was a kid we did not eat out 5 times a year. There is still plenty of room for higher gas prices in even the poorest budget.
Gas is holding at $3.65 per gallon here. Filled the Equinox once and got 20.63 MPG.
Life is tough...
drum roll ... follow the money. And I don't mean the pittance that Mr. Gore is bringing in. :shades:
Detroit keeps building dinosaurs, the chicken tax keeps Chevy Luv type trucks from Thailand out, and the rest of us pay at the pump.
You must be having an awful time in Hawaii - is it raining non-stop or something? I hope you at least have a laptop out on the lanai. Not that we don't enjoy your company, but dude, surf's up.
Well if Japan's figures are anything like the US figures, they use different numbers for fleet averages than they do for what's in the window stickers. For instance, that 27.5 that gets thrown around for US cars is taken from radically different, much more optimistic numbers than what gets printed on the EPA sticker.
For example remember when the Prius was rated something like 61/50? Well the CAFE numbers are even more generous than that. They'd probably put a Prius at something like 75/60!
The Japanese also have all sorts of cars for the home market that are much smaller than what they sell here. A Yaris or Fit is probably considered midsize over there! :surprise:
Don't forget, a huge percentage of their fleet is tiny tiny cars making 50 mpg plus. The Prius is FAR from the "best they've got". In Japan Prius is a large car. It's clearly time for Americans to downsize. Even China is making/shooting for 36 mpg! Now if they could just get out of the business of powering everything with dirty coal plants, that would be very meaningful...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
In other words, Americans might not easily fit in some of these cars that are being built for Asia.
I've just bought a new car - a Mazdaspeed 6 - I like the size, sportiness, and AWD for New England winters. My GF got my used Jag X-Type. The 6 requires premium per the manual (93, with 91 OK), with the Jag suggesting 91 octane, but can use 87.
We use 93, with a little 87 mixed in the Jag.
I'm signing a P&S on a house today 5-6 miles from work vs. my 3.9 miles from my apartment. So a little more gas, but very reasonable. Since my GF and I both rent separate places, we will save a lot - not having 2 sets of bills. The house is oil-heat with a 500gal tank, but a new really efficient furnace. I'm also having them reinstall the wood-stove, and there is a lot of hardwood on the land. So some pluses and minuses.
Actually the high cost of gas may be helping some people, as a higher cost of living forces more foreclosures, and lowers real estate values. So are there people getting a house for $50K less, for the price of paying $1,000 more /year in gas? Probably yes.
I've got my summer vacation planned and paid for, and $5/gal gas would not stop it - actually going to the NJ beaches, and NJ has the cheapest gas.
The Speed3 sells better despite the torque steer and transaction prices no lower than the AWD Speed6.
But that's using the NHTSA testing criteria which is at least 30+ years old. Those numbers are inflated by about 20% ( c.f. article herein on Edmunds about 35 mpg actually meaning 27-28 mpg ).
But Japan and Europe use different methods entirely. Also each has different emissions controls.
Where down the Jersey shore? We've got some nice places and some crazy ones. I live 5 miles off the ocean down here.
On topic, I did one thing on the subject of expensive gas. I bought a 99 Celica convertible. Now I only need to drive the Ody when I need something that big.
Before any one points out that this isn't saving me money I already know that but it made it more reasonable to do something I wanted to do.
That's a funny looking Piña Colada glass you're using there, Gary. :shades:
can barely afford my edmunds annual dues. :P
actually, i have a couple of great kids.
I was going to say the same thing. Stop rubbing THAT in our faces. :mad:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Bike messengers are popular in large cities like New York. I wonder if anyone has thought about trying the idea for delivery of other things?
i hate cold water (giving gary another to do some needling).
that's a cute slipper you have on. :surprise:
Most takeout food in Manhattan is delivered either on foot, or by bike... different in the outer boroughs though.
On of my "never forget" moments of living in Manhattan follows: In my 5th floor apartment one early summer evening - windows open, so I can hear some street noise. I hear a bang, and some cursing, so I go to the window, looking for street theater. Seems like a cabbie and a bike delivery guy had a near miss (near hit?) and food is all over the street, but no one is injured.... and I hear this from my upstairs neighbor... "Yo!, You delivering for 'Noodles on 28'?" No time wasted on "are you ok?"
About time for a power nap.
Not necessarily, I have known people that are large/tall that fit rather well in small cars. One person was about 6'3" and 270 pounds. He drove a tiny Civic back in 1980. Another friend was 6'3" and 200 pounds. His wheels were a Geo Metro. Proper design is the key.
Another example, I found the Suburban for all its bulk to be about the same in the front passenger seat when compared to my car.
The latest news report from
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080422/AUTO01/804220375/1148-
say that the DOT will propose 35.7 mpg as the new number to meet by 2015. Funny how they announce that on Terra Firma day. It really should be Blue Planet day since most of earth is covered by ocean.
On the same page the Detroit news had an article on "Gas guzzlers a hit in China"
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080422/AUTO04/804220331/1364- /AUTO01
Happy Gas Guzzler Day
The thing is, that seems to happen a lot more with Asian cars, simply because they don't get as tall as Americans typically. And I'm only 6 feet tall.
I'm also opposed to leaning the seat back to get more headroom, which I've seen a lot of people do.
I go all the way - Cape May - specifically the Inn of Cape May. They have a nice package, about $150/night w/free full breakfast and $50/day in the restaurant-bar. It's right across from the beach in the center of the town.
NJ is pretty nice in most parts, outside of Camden and Newark.
The ocean north of Cape Cod is too chilly for me.
Good choice on the Celica. Fun and inexpensive. I'll keep my car insurance though and not yours - I pay about $500/year in NH for my Speed6.
I think how masochistic you are is more key here, rather than "proper design". I'm 6'3", and about 200 pounds, and know I'd be miserable in either of those cars. One thing to keep in mind is that not all 6'3", 200 pound people are built the same way. In my case, I need a lot of legroom, but headroom is usually not too much of an issue. And I need my legroom to be the type where I can stretch out. Some cars with a tall seating position might boast a good measurement for legroom, but in my experience you're just too close to the firewall to really be able to stretch out. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather be stretched out in a livingroom recliner than perched on a cheap, thin kitchen chair.
Interestingly, the Fit's front legroom is published at 41.9". For comparison, my 2000 Intrepid is 42.2", and I dug up some old stats for my '79 New Yorker and '76 LeMans that put them at 42.3" and 42.5", respectively. However, from sitting in them all, I can tell you that there's a lot more than 6/10" of an inch difference between a Fit and my LeMans! However, the LeMans does have a power seat that goes into some pretty contorted positions. It has a much wider range of motion than my New Yorker. Whenever they list front seat legroom dimensions, they must have some kind of standard they put the seat at, because I notice that on cars with a power seat, the dimension is the same as an equivalent car without a power seat. For instance, an Intrepid R/T or ES would have a power seat, but it's listed at the same 42.2" as my base model, which just has manual fore/aft.
If you're comparing an '02 Avalon to a Suburban, I'd agree with you on the legroom and headroom front. Those Avalons are very roomy cars in that degree. They're a bit narrow inside, noticeably narrower than a Suburban. But that's really only going to come into play if you need 3-across seating. The Avalon is also very slab-sided, almost like a mid-60's car, so you don't have the sides curving in, cutting into passenger space like they do on most modern cars.
Now back in high school and college, a friend of mine had a 1980 Accord hatchback. I drove it a few times, and it was a pretty good fit for me. Well, at the time at least. That was 20 years ago. Dunno if I'd be able to tolerated it nowadays! :P
Sometime in August I'll do the Cape May ferry which is great. About 70 minutes out on the water and you're in Lewes, Delaware which is another nice little town. Spend the day and take an evening ferry back. Makes for a good day and, staying on topic, saves gas....
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/homepage/20080422_Hybrid_cars__Sales_are_u- p_as_drivers_look_to_cut_gas_costs_.html
Actually, if it weren't for the skimpy legroom, it wouldn't be a bad little car, but it just forces me into a cramped position that's really uncomfortable for my legs. Headroom in the car is pretty good, although there's too much curvature in the sides for my tastes. The steering column is also too low for my tastes. Now if I just needed to hop in the car for 5-10 minutes, it would be fine. But it's not a good long distance car. Not for me, at least.
I'd probably have the same problem with the Aveo...tight legroom. I think the Aveo's seat might be a bit higher than my uncle's Corolla, though, so that would be an improvement if it gives me some thigh support. Still, the Aveo is roomy for a small car. Actually, for its small size, the Corolla is pretty roomy. But it still can't escape the fact that it's a small car, and if you're used to the comfort of a midsized or large car (or even an "old school" compact like a '68 Dart :P ), it's still going to be a compromise.
Now the Civic feels a lot more comfy inside to me. It has a somewhat lanky ~106" wheelbase, which a few years back would have been indicative of a midsized car. I'm actually pretty comfortable behind the wheel of a Cobalt or G5. But if I'm going to get a car that small, I'm getting it for the fuel economy, and I don't think a Cobalt is really any more economical than a 4-cyl Accord, Camry, Altima, or Malibu.
The jitters from Nigeria have gotten their predictable publicity. Next month, we have the "summer driving season," so that effect is near. Then, the next month begins "hurricane season." So we can expect plenty of doomsday predictions, along with another "cautionary rise" in oil prices.
Consumers can't cover $4 gasoline (and $5.50 diesel). The U.S. economy can't absorb it.
Restaurants around here are still jammed. Went for a boat ride last night, and people were using the lake. Drove around Chicago (I80 to I94) over the weekend and the traffic was heavy and traveling 80+. I guess time is still more valuable than gas.
Sure it can; but some adjustments might be needed to compensate, and people of lower income may have to give up some things.
1) many employers could go to (4) 10-hr days. There is no golden-rule that businesses run (5) 8-hr days.
2) people will move closer to work, or take a job closer to home.
3) people may walk and bike more to local stores.
4) people will choose to shop at the closer stores rather than drive further.
5) People may take trips to closer spots - the lake 10 miles away rather than 30 miles away.
6) People may decide they rather have money for gas, than spend $100/month on cable and cell-phone. Or wasting money on their 15th Chinese-made "designer" purse, or upgrading their perfectly fine golf-clubs.
And lastly before you get everyone all gloomy and doomy, higher gas prices is not the end of the world. Other countries with lower GDP, and individual incomes are getting along ok with these prices.
I know in CA they will probably add tax to gas as part of their plan to cut CO2. We are at about 64 cents per gallon last I checked and 72 cents per gallon on diesel. Highest fuel taxes in the Nation. If people really take a hard look at their Senators and Congressmen they will not vote for any incumbent. Both parties are feeding at the lobbyist trough. Pelosi did promise to lower the price of gas if we voted the Democrats into office in 2006. Not sure what her plan was/is. It is not working.
Nope, it's real, and it's a major problem. Shell Oil, a major player there, is having to deal with much lower than planned production because of the constant attacks and kidnapping. And the hoped-for gush of Iraqi oil is very slow in coming because of the same kind of problems. This stuff ain't made up!
That already happened didn't it?
Maybe there's something to be said for dictatorship. :shades:
Having said that, China's gas is under $3 and not going anywhere. And their economy, as a result, is absolutely booming. Ours, to compare, is slowly sinking.
I tried to get comfortable in both the Civic and Accord a couple years ago. My head was touching the headliner. I am also just 6 foot tall. I like the sitting position in a PU or SUV for long drives. I am more relaxed and my back does not hurt at the end of a long day. Many of the current vehicles have gone to hard seats which I find uncomfortable as well.
The truth is they can make comfortable vehicles that get 35 MPG. We just don't get them in the USA. So we have to use more fuel or live our lives to suit other people.