$3.39 would be a bargain here.I filled up our Town & Country yesterday at $3.49 and that is in Illinois,not the West Coast. I have cut back on the driving so much that after the previous fill up, which was on the fifth of March,I needed less than 15 gallons. No more joy rides,no more trips to Davenport Ia to shop and see a movie.That now all that is just a fond memory.
filled up our Town & Country yesterday at $3.49 and that is in Illinois,
Its $3.65 here in the burbs of Chicago :sick:
Going to Davenport to shop and see movies, you must live in northern IL near either I-80 or I-88 west of I-39. I know some people out that way in Princeton, they are hurting because the need to burn a gallon of gas to to pick up groceries.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Those are exactly the types of cuts people are going to have to do, and can do. They are not absolutely essential, and are basically recreational. Only thru decreased demand will the market stabilize. it's going to be a new reality for many people.
If you want to have a more luxurious lifestyle I suggest you start figuring out how to make more $.
Am I so out of touch that going to a movie has become a "luxury" while I was not looking?
My real concerns are around the trickle down effects of rising gas prices - so we go to fewer movies - theaters close, kids and adults looking for the supplemental second job lose opportunity. Cost of transporting goods increases - those hikes are passed on to the consumer, and since we don't all have the room/ability to grow our own food and clothing, everyone is affected, some more than others... and so on, and so on...
Maybe movies isn't a luxury, but certainly 300-station cable and cell-phones would be to people 10 or 20 years ago. Many of the things you now "need" certainly weren't part of the lifestyle years ago. Most families had 1 car if they were lucky, or the 2nd car was worth $300 - I remember my brother's '63(?) Rambler was $225.
Maybe if we spent less on the car, we'd have more $ for the gas?
Your concerns abut the trickle-down effect are real. However it is increased economic activity which is running up our fossil fuel use. Something has to give. The more people on Earth the less for each! Maybe we better hope that we don't find a way to keep every living to 200? or 300?
Kendrick: Here is what we use for heat. We have a Waterford Irish wood stove that is as polutant free as you can buy. They are now hard to find and very costly, as the Euro has gone out of sight. Lemans a Almish catalogue store in Ohio sells them. We have oil filled radient heaters in every bedroom. With this we can heat a room or close it off. We have 1900 sq feet and our electric bill is below most. When the power fails we can cook on the Waterford, and prophane lights do the trick. We are retired, and living in a rural area we are prepared to live more than a week should be be snowed or iced in. Hope this gives you some encouragement.
kscng, David: You seem like a person who really desires a better enviorment, and is concerned about the energy we use. I admire you for your stand. However, David, the hard facts are that the energy situation is not as simple as one solution will resolve the majority of problems. It seems to me that you may have some other issues other than just energy, to suggest boycotting every last automaker except Honda. Natural gas has it's problems, like lack of lubercation to the valves, just to name one. To suggest that one fuel or automaker can solve the energy crisis is rather narrow thinking. When we take many great solutions and each accomplishes a singificant reduction in polution, and energy savings, that will be the better way. To suggest that we should boycott US vehicles is mindless, and would serve only to put our economy, and financial furture in the tolet and flush ourselves down the sewer! You can't be serious? This is a country that we have freedom to earn and spend as we see fit. At least that is what many have fought and died for to have and cherrish. I say that for anyone to state a Auto maker from Japan should be the ONLY vehicle in the US us to say the least offensive. Japan owes the US big time! Had not the US spent millions upon millions of US citizens hard earned tax dollars to rebuild their country, Japan would be in the same shape as North Korea is today. US automakers have taken a bad rap from such bias magizines as Consumer Reports, which unless it's made anywhere but the US is a better vehicle! Bull Pucky! So you just might want to re-think your request to boycott US automakers. David, it's a real bad idea!
Gas around the St. Louis area jumped from $3.37 to $3.49 recently. I drove in that day since it was raining and stopped by the last station that was still at the old $3.37/gal rate. I figured I could fill up and let the car sit home for the rest of April.
Lots of people were at the lower price station, compared to the rest of the area. You wouldn't think people would be so eager to buy $3.37/gal gas. The oil companies are doing a good job of conditioning people for the eventual $4 mark.
Dunno about "luxury", but I would definitely classify a movie as "entertainment", which on a scale would certainly lean more towards luxury than necessity.
Supposedly though, in recessionary times, movie theaters actually do quite well. I forget where I saw the stats, probably Microsoft Money, but in 7 of the last 9 bleak periods for the economy, box office receipts would actually rise. The rationale, I've heard, is that when the times are bad, people like to go to the movie theater to escape from reality for a couple hours.
I was out near Harper's Ferry, West VA today, and saw a gas station pushing 93 octane for $3.829 per gallon. So $4.00 per gallon isn't far off!
Actually the way US cities were developed are at fault as well. You cannot blame the guy stuck out in northern IL for wanting to go to a movie and saying well you have to make more money to compensate for your luxurious lifestyle. People are not going to coup up in their houses like hermits just because they don't have gas money. Like us in Indianapolis major errors in planning have occured built around the concept that the car industry would drive part of the economy and so no effort or money was spent to develop a subway, busing or biking lanes etc. Now that plan will inhibit the economy since transportation is a necessity and no alternate transportation infrastructure has not been implemented. Other larger cities of the US have the same problem such as Seattle, and now suburbs of Chicago, no doubt millions of people will be affected by this lack of alternate transportation flaw. These cities have missed the boat and will suffer now that gas prices are almost inhibitive. If I can compare Indianapolis to most cities, it has a substandard mass transit system. If we can take other cities who have coped internationally Zurich Switzerland, Paris France, Montreal Canada have superb mass transit infrastructures in place and are self-sustaining. Montreal for example placed a 5-8 cent tax on all gas sold there as I recall forcing drivers to think twice and use the mass transit system which was clean, fast, and efficient. Busing, subways, biking lanes everywhere, within a 5 minute walk in most cases, fairly affordable (Zurich was expensive only because we were visitors,if we lived there our transport would have been subsidized through our taxes and recieved a discount that made it affordable). Montreal has continuously expanded its subway system now into the suburbs I hear (Laval on the north shore will have a subway stop if not already implemented), and it has a train like the Go train of Toronto servicing the outskirts that runs often as well, and is not expensive 5 dollars a ride last I heard. In Indianapolis unfortunately there are no bike lanes or trails for people to safely get back and forth to work and travel to the inner core of the city although rough plans have been in the works for decades, most roads here are narrow refurbished country roads outside the circle of the I-465 and drivers are hardly sensitized to cyclists and most roads do not have street lights so cycling, walking etc at night is even more dangerous. I saw an expose on Seattle's city counsel infighting over an overhead monorail car which would definately help their situation but worries over the millions of dollars it would cost gave over cautious politicians reason not to do it. Seattle city cousel was split, many people protested for it. I have not seen anything since, anyone know what happened to that monorail project in Seattle ?? Long story short-gas is not where it is at, you are right we have to think outside the box...lets get extreme, no more gas guzzlers, force automakers like GM, Ford and Chrysler's to create a green industry for transportation to compete with the fuel efficient car companies like Smart car, the Japanese cars,make and sell inexpensive scooters and mopeds that get 70-100 miles to a gallon,use commuter electric cars or fuel cell cars, force city cousels across the nation to make bicycle lanes like they have in most international cities. When I was in Switzerland most people had small cars, it was the norm, acceptable even to the extreme with 3 wheeled versions like go carts. Lets encourage companies like Chrysler to build their dune buggy-like Renegade hybrid with the 1 L diesel-electric engine that gets 70-80 miles to the gallon and beats the Prius, lets see them compete. People will get desperate, I already have seen cars on the side of the road because people ran out of gas. It is just crazy !
frustrates me at their lack of any sort of green or conserving thinking. my kids never throw plastic in the recycle box. they don't turn stuff off if they are done using it(lights, radio, etc). today we went up the street to the neighbors to eat and cook on the grille. we brought our own food. my wife wanted to drive there. it was about a 3 minute walk. i went in the shed and brought out the old radio flyer wagon. we put everything in it and we walked. everyone made it ok.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Cost recovery ratios (fare revenue as a percentage of operating cost) are 20% in Zurich, the lowest of the large European cities. Doesn't sound self sustaining.
Interesting report from the Commission for Integrated Transport. Cutting out the parking places looks to be the best way to encourage heavy use of mass transit.
Transit riders in Montreal cover only 55 per cent of the annual operating costs of nearly 750 million dollars. Wierd pdf link best cut and pasted: www.regionomics.com/INDUS/Karachi-transit.pdf
The Paris Metro also requires a subsidy - on the other hand, the mass transit railway in Hong Kong makes a huge profit. Property Rights, Planning and Markets
Here is a twist on mass transit. On the Big Island of Hawaii bus service is free to ALL. My realtor friend told me it was the idea of the Mayor in Hilo. With rising home values the real estate taxes have risen dramatically. They have a surplus in the budget and free mass transit is one of the beneficiaries. This is a great deal for the low income people that live on the Hilo side of the island and work on the Kona side. It is about a 75 mile trip around or across the island to work.
With the huge run up in home values around the USA you would think other communities would be flush with money also.
With the huge run up in home values around the USA you would think other communities would be flush with money also
:confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
I thought part of the mess people are in is because home values have dropped like a lead balloon and owners now owe more on their higher interest loan than the house is worth.
Thus, they cannot refinance or afford the current monthly payment and foreclosures are at an all-time high.
I think the case for people losing homes is far over stated by the media. Most that are losing their homes made bad decisions when they bought. That has little to do with the 97% that are paying their mortgage and have seen their home value skyrocket and the real estate taxes right along with that higher value. In our case the taxes on our new home are $7000 per year. Our old home is taxed at $2300 per year. Homes in CA are taxed at the selling price. The state of CA should be overflowing with tax dollars. Instead the dweebs in Sacramento along with their new found buddy Ahnold have wasted it on stupid projects that benefit No one.
When your home goes down in value it is not an automatic tax reduction. You have to fight for it.
And of course $4 gas will not help matters. Though I have not seen a slow down or reduction in traffic with the higher priced gas. I have to assume people have way more money than they know what to do with it.
Thanks for the stats, I like the one about Hong Kong making massive profits, that would be a good argument for future mass transit developments in the US, the land of fiscal responsibility and capitalism. I also liked that link on Webster's book, very nice. That 55% in Montreal it is an eye opener but the city probably designed the program that way. You forgot to mention Montreal also spends half its city budget on snow removal as well. Find a way to make it stop snowing there and Montreal will be in the black.:) Can you suggest any modern thought on how the US should proceed with its forboding transportation problem ? I have not read all the string here but has there been any consensus on the best form of transport car wise yet ? Would the world economies topple if energy for cars were very cheap if not free ? Right now the Japanese Space agency,the European Space Agency and the Space Island Group want to build and orbit massive solar satellites that collect and beam the energy down to earth to microwave reciever stations that will convert it to electricity and will theoretically have unlimited free electricity,theoretically.... Wow, energy problem solved, no more pollution ! Electric cars here we come.
FYI, the government is spending multi-billions on a mass transit space program to put people in space hotels (Bigelow Aerospace), a Space Elevator (Liftport,Sedco), and land humans on Mars in 2030 (Boeing,Lockheed Martin, NASA). Hmmm, I guess we do not have enough money or political fortitude to save this planet, lets go to Mars !
"With the huge run up in home values around the USA you would think other communities would be flush with money also."
That would be true if they kept the increases. My readings suggest that many communities started reducing mill rates or states gave property tax rebates. In ND we received a 10% property tax rebate. ND is flush with oil tax money to the tune of $500,000,000 or so. That works out to about $787 for every person in the state. The Republicans in the legislature are getting a bit nervous about spending any of the money. Instead of setting up a nice infrastructure fund for roads, bridges, water or sewer they will likely give it back. That would be the wrong thing to do, the oil money will not last forever. Now is the time to fix things up.
Keep in mind that local and state governments are also feeling the heat from the high fuel prices. Any budget for fuel created last year will be wrong. Fuel costs for police cars, school buses and garbage trucks are hurting local communities.
My suggestion would be to look at an actual local or state government budget and calculate the cost increases over the last few years. They are in the same boat we are with regards to high fuel costs.
"People will get desperate, I already have seen cars on the side of the road because people ran out of gas. It is just crazy !"
Actually, things are normal not crazy. Gasoline prices will go up and down in the short term. For the long term gas prices will continue to rise. People just do not want to deal with it on a logical level. When one person buys a vehicle that gets 13/19 mpg it is not a big deal. When 10 million people buy a similar vehicle it has an impact. People do not understand how their one purchase makes a difference. Multiple that by millions....
In a logical world many of your thoughts would make sense. BUT, we do not live in a logical world. We live in a country that is more into; I want, I want, I want..... We revolt when the government tells us what we should do. We dis any politician that suggests we conserve.
The car culture in this country is still much to strong to make major inroads on efficient transportation. Will it change? I would say yes, but with the caveat that it will take years of $4, $5 and likely $10 a gallon gasoline before we can get to where you propose.
Sometimes you need to hit people square in the mouth with a baseball bat before they will change. Higher prices are starting to do that. Right now we are in the anger stage where people are trying to blame everyone but themselves. Its China, its India, its the oil companies, its...........Things are changing, slowly but surely.
One final point. Part of this is a generational thing. People of my age and older grew up or started driving when gasoline was cheap. They are both in positions of power and in denial. When the younger generation takes power, one that started to drive when gas was not cheap, they will be better able to deal with the reality.
Sold a beautiful 69 Chevelle for peanuts and bought a $3200.00 puddle jumper to "save gas"
What it did - ended up costing me more than the rise of the price of gas over the period of ownership.
This time around- Save the shift in vehicles to the more gullable- drive less- and adjust spending in other areas of my life. When its time to replace the vehicle- those conditions will dictate what I buy.
Wow, great statement. My Parents don't fit into that old way of thinking, they were always nature lovers and to some extent environmentalistic.
Hey its Earth Day on Tuesday April 22nd. Get out there to the rallies it should be very fun...
I don't agree about the 'more people, less to go around theory'. Gas companies use any excuse to raise the price of gas, use is less lets raise it, use is more lets raise it, hey there was an hurricane on key oil drilling stations lets raise it, some terrorists attacked a oil refinery lets raise it....got the picture. If we could put people on the moon, we should have the capability to solve our problems here. I think gas is a no brainer.
Same here, but I drove a mini-puddle jumper (71 Corolla - 1700 pounds). The 70s was a short term spike in petrol. This time around the spike isn't really a spike so much as a long term trend.
If you look at the number of cars expected to be produced by India and China in the next few years, we can expect to see the same or higher prices. Mideast countries are expanding like crazy and using gobs of energy. In the U.S. we are making some minor course corrections.
I agree that when it comes time to replace the vehicle we should look at conditions. The trick will be to anticipate what conditions are going to be through the life of the vehicle - the part where it is sitting in our driveway anyhow.
My experience back in 2001 was a case in point. I bought a 6 cylinder instead of the 4. Two or three years later and prices for gasoline take off. Next time around I plan to pay more attention to supply and demand.
For anyone interested, the EIA has some interesting presentations related to gasoline on their web site. The Halff presentation, Petroleum: Keeping Pace with a Rapidly Changing Sector, talks about why diesel is higher than gasoline in the States (page 7).
I've only been to Montreal in the summer. Parking was difficult downtown but easier than, say, Boston. Montreal has a nice trail and path system. Build a dome and that'll fix the snow problem. Would tend to block all the light too, especially when snow covered, but one of those solar satellites could be aimed at it.
Edmonton has a bunch of underground pedestrian tunnels for winter walking in the downtown core. Haven't been there in the winter either; maybe a lurking Canadian can tell us how they work out.
I don't think there is any one solution. There are many ways to attack the problem, and what tact you take depends on lots of factors, like the location or population density.
Mass transit seems to work better in congested areas. Electric cars could be big in the Southwest where sunshine is abundant. I want to see compact hybrid electric car batterys so you can charge one in the sun all day and swap it out with the spent one at night.
But ICE isn't going away any time soon. Too much infrastructure to abandon, even at $8 or $10 a gallon.
all-EV's are the choice I'm focusing on. The Mitsubishi i-MIEV that goes about 100 miles on a charge, then needs re-charging for an 80% charge-up in a half hour is one take on all-electric. Or a 220V re-charge for about 13 hours will fully completely charge you back up. Whose 220V outlet does one borrow when they're shopping and bowling in Tucson, AZ, you may ask? I'm working on that one-I'll get back to you! :P I out-bowled Barack, but by just a few points! First time I have bowled in about 18 years the other night in Tucson. I didn't know bowling was one of these games like golf, where you have to play it over and over again for 5 years before you master it. Maybe it isn't, but I play it that way. Enough digressing, though.
Today I read about the Chinese manufacturer BYD and their new e6 all-electric vehicle. BYD does batteries very, very well. They manufacture their own batteries for usage in cell phones and now in automobiles they make. This e6 crossover model goes about 200 miles on a charge and also re-"up" charges to an 80% charge in about a half hour. Same deal, you can get a 220V fully-completely re-charge in about 13 hours in your carport at home. This one is ready now for our driving needs here in Arizona. Concerns remain, such as, reliability, safety, homogolation, etc., etc. But emissions are nought, so that one is fully taken care of by the propulsion technology built in!
The BYD e6 is being displayed at the Beijing Auto Show right now. Humm...seems to me I read an article a while back about BYD intending to export all-EV's to the States. Indeed that is what it said. The BYD e6 and the Mitsubishi i-MIEV are the two top-runners for me to replace my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS in about 5 years. By then the choices will no doubt be larger to choose from.
Also, there is a company in America, on the East Coast if memory serves me, that is currently working on retro-fitting a car of your choice for the all-electric propulsion mode. Need the info. on this one. Anyway, I don't want a hybrid, I am more interested in taking a totally electrical leap in to the unknown. Think of me as a guinea pig for all things bright and shiny and new...and unknown...and...scary. :shades:
I am tired of these futures-trading clowns calling the shots on how much I "have" to pay at the pump. Something seems rotten and nasty in Denmark when Exxon-Mobil makes a profit of $43 B in the 4th quarter of 2007. And this is "OK" with everyone? And it's just "supply/demand" economics playing out, huh?
It looks to me like the EU got the jump on us with regards to diesel vehicles and now we are stuck with the stinking gas guzzlers. At least our fuel is still cheap compared to the EU. It was only a matter of time. Just wish CARB had not been so anal about diesel.
Shoot, I don't need to live a more luxurious lifestyle and am currently happy with what it is I already have. I just want to be able to live the lifestyle to which I've become accustomed, which many others may view as quite modest.
I also don't want to be working 24/7 to afford all that which makes up modern luxurious living if I have no time to enjoy it. My girlfriend might still be around to enjoy the fruits of my labors after I've passed on from a heart attack.
I refuse to go into deep debt like too many have. The ability to sleep at night without fear of the repo man or bankruptcy court is worth more than all the exotic vacations, sporty vehicles, or fancy electronic do-dads in the world.
On the other hand, I don't want to end up living a life of deprivation as did my great grandparents who toiled very hard in the Northeast Pennsylvania anthracite coal mines, though I see most of U.S. society heading back in that direction.
Premium at my local Chevron was $3.89 last night, so $4 gas is pretty much a reality here. Doesn't impact me too much, as I deal with living in a small apartment so I can live 4 miles from work and close to any kind of store...but there is noticeable grocery inflation going on right now. I could live 20 miles away and get a place 50% larger for the same money...but the traffic (20 miles is easily an hour or more commute during business hours) and now gas prices makes me feel very good about my decision to live where I do.
Shoot, I don't need to live a more luxurious lifestyle and am currently happy with what it is I already have. I just want to be able to live the lifestyle to which I've become accustomed, which many others may view as quite modest.
Heck, I'm sure a lot of people would view my lifestyle as masochistic as "Little House on the Prairie". Or, "The Waltons", at best. :P The higher gas prices at the pump don't really bother me. However, what does concern me is how it seems to be affecting the price of everything else. I haven't really been paying attention, but grocery prices have been shooting up at an alarming rate from what I've heard. We try to buy our stuff in bulk at Costco, so maybe that's insulating me, personally a bit.
massachusets has many of those traffic circles. they suck, especially if you are a timid driver.
I think it's a matter of people not being used to them. Paris has lots of roundabouts and traffic seems to flow around them fairly smoothly. The Parisian drivers are not all that timid, however.
We have a small one at the entrance to our subdivision. I think it's great. It's been there for a few years but I still see an occasional driver stop in the middle of it, who apparently doesn't know that any vehicle already in the roundabout has the right-of-way.
Speaking about new concept cars-Chrysler is developing the Zeo fully electric car. They also have the cool looking ecoVoyager fuel cell-hybrid and Jeep Renegade diesel-electric hybrid in the works. Speaking about charging car batteries on electric cars-can anyone suggest a solar panel company that sells a charging unit out there that I can be installed on my garage roof or car port with some kind of battery charging conversion unit to hook up to the battery when I do get that electric car ? I cringe at the prospect of charging a giant battery for 13 hours a day only to face the piper at the end of the month with a huge electric bill. I
Depending where you live and the work schedule, will determine if solar will help you. The solar panels will not benefit you if your on the day shift. Some utilities will give you credit for back feeding power. I would hang onto my money for a few more years. There are some PV cells coming out that will be close to double the current efficiency. Probably before you can buy an EV in the USA.
"the more people in a car pool, the more complicated it gets. do you have to pay for parking?"
No, we don't pay for parking where I work. It is off the beaten path and out in the burbs, so it might start a riot if they charged employees for parking - access to transit there is very limited. Which is a great shame, considering it is only 20 miles out of San Francisco. Unfortunately, it is one of the only two counties (out of 9)touching the bay that is not served by the subway or the train system. :-(
Was out with friends yesterday evening in their minivan - we were headed to get pizza, stopped to get gas after stopping at the ATM, they had to pay $3.87/gallon for regular unleaded, and with the size of the tank in that thing it was almost $80 for the fill-up!!! My friend had not done the math prior to getting money out of the machine, and we had to go stop at the ATM AGAIN so he would have enough pizza money for his family. After they gave all their money to ARCO to fill the tank in their van, they will be eating IN the rest of the week......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A lot of talking-head economists are spewing out propoganda, telling us that "everything's okay.... the markets are holding up ..... the economy is absorbing higher fuel costs......" Don't believe it.
The economy only appears to be holding up because it's so big that it takes time to change direction. Also because the fed is using every trick in the book to prop it up -- radically lowering interest rates, bailing out failed investment banks, lying about inflation and unemployment rates. These days, CNBC beats out the Comedy Channel for laughs-per-minute.
The average family can absorb gas prices up to $2 with little effect. Up to $2.50, they can compensate by making small sacrifices such as car-pooling to work, combining errands, staying home to play in the back yard instead of going to the city park, etc. But at $3.50, they've already trimmed the economic fat, and they're forced to cut into the meat of their lifestyles.
The story regarding a family sacrificing dining out to pay for gas gets told thousands of times a day now. And it will soon be families at the grocery store sacrificing name brand food for generic equivalents to pay for gas.
And when basics like food are affected, you know that recreation, vacations, and other luxury expenses have already gone bye-bye. After the average family pays for food, clothing, and shelter (after they pay taxes, of course), there's no money left for fun. This is how economies go into recession. Money simply stops flowing.
I wonder how many of you all have similar stories -- how you're scrimping in other parts of your budgets to pay for higher gas, higher food, etc.? .
...and pretty soon the guy at Pizza Hut is going to wonder what happened to all his business. "Gee, the lunchtime crowd is getting awful thin and nobody shows up after work anymore. Heck, I might as well close up for the weekend. Funny, the ARCO across the street seems to be doing a brisk business."
I can't imagine what it would be like to deliver pizzas under today's gas prices - even with a Prius.
Good thing I don't have kids and my drive to work isn't far. If it gets bad enough, I can walk. My girlfriend, however, has at least a 12-mile commute to her job each morning and I'm concerned for her as she doesn't make nearly as much as I do and I often end up supplementing her fuel costs. Good thing she drives a rather fuel-efficient car.
I have a second job I do part-time in which I travel to different locations. It's a great part-time gig and pays well for what it is, but I'm wondering if it is even worth doing anymore with fuel prices being what they are. There are no set hours. I can finish a job in as little as two hours or I can be there all night. I've been doing this job a long time, but the newbies make a rather modest pay. I wonder how long they'll be able to hang in there?
I've been poor and Sav-A-Lot food is awful. I wouldn't trust their meat, the candy is stale, and the soda is so sugary and disgusting you feel as if your teeth are rotting and you're getting diabetes simultaneously as you drink it. I can imagine the average suburban family driving to the 'hood to do their weekly grocery shopping.
Pretty soon all those other luxuries will go. The cable TV will be cancelled. Cell phones will be scrapped in favor of a handful of change to use at pay phones. Internet access will be cancelled. I'll know things are bad when I log into Edmunds and it is just me and four others in here.
Even gas stations have degraded over the years with the run up in fuel prices. Whereas the attendant was once the sharply uniformed Man from Texaco with a spiffy cap and bowtie or a friendly rube like Goober who would take the time to ask about your family as he checked your oil, tire pressure, and cleaned your windshield, he is now some recent immigrant from the Third World hiding behind bulletproof glass hoping the local thugs don't kill him.
I can't imagine what it would be like to deliver pizzas under today's gas prices - even with a Prius.
with something like a Prius it might not be too bad. Back when I did it with my '68 Dart, I probably averaged 12-13 mpg in that type of driving. Gas was maybe $1.20 per gallon on a bad day. So figure it was costing me about 9-10 cents per mile.
This morning on the way to work, I noticed 87 octane is running around $3.50 per gallon. So to equal the cost per mile I was averaging with that Dart, back in 1996-1997, today you'd need a car that could get 35-38 mpg in that type of driving.
Then, figure that inflation has gone up around 30% since then. So $1.20 back in 1996-1997 is about the equivalent to $1.55-1.60 today. So if you could get 27-30 mpg in that type of driving, it would be about the equivalent, inflation-adjusted, of what it was costing me back in 1996-1997.
I imagine that overall business is down, though. Pizza really isn't a very cost-effective way to feed your family to begin with, and having it delivered only increases that cost. Back in my heyday, on a busy Friday night, I'd walk out of the store sometimes with 4-5 deliveries at once. I have a friend whose sister works for Dominos, and sometimes if we're in the area, we'll stop by and get a pizza. I've noticed on Friday nights when I've been there, at what would normally be the peak times, their drivers were walking out the door with 1-2 deliveries.
They can't be making much money that way, and it probably wastes a lot of gas.
Prius? Scooters get better mileage, and I have been seeing more of those out and about lately.
As for cutting back, I already did most of that "economizing" stuff back when gas was $1.50 so all I do now is pay more for food and not go driving around as much as I used to.
Tom Ross nodded. A part-time employee at the station... "I used to go to North Carolina - the Outer Banks - four, five times a year," Ross said. "I know I'm not going this year."
Where was he getting the money for that? Perhaps he also works in an "undocumented" business? :confuse:
Since we live and die on income fromvisitors from PA, WV, OH as well as VA and NC that's not a good signal.
My own 150 mi commute now is costing 6.8 cents / mi every day. But at $4.00 it would jump to over 8 cents / mi. At some point even a Prius doesn't mitigate the pain enough. Gen3 Prius 'C'mon Down'!!!
Pretty soon all those other luxuries will go. The cable TV will be cancelled. Cell phones will be scrapped in favor of a handful of change to use at pay phones. Internet access will be cancelled.
Hmm, no cable here, no cell. Free internet thanks to the ISP access point dish on my roof. My wife got diagnosed with a bunch of food allergies so we're spending lots more on organic type foods, but just about quit eating out.
About the only place left to cut would be to go back to one car and hitch up to the ski hill in the winter. Did the former for ~10 of the last 25 years so that's easy enough, and I biked/hitched to Bogus a lot when we lived close in to town.
Maybe a move is in our future.
I think another consequence of high gas prices, assuming they stay high while consumption decreases (is that possible?), is that some gas stations will close. So you'll have to wind up driving farther just to get gas.
"I think another consequence of high gas prices, assuming they stay high while consumption decreases (is that possible?), "
Yes, that's possible if the price of oil rises more rapidly than demand declines, as has been the case for the last four years.
It's hard to believe that demand is only declining 2% per year since 2005. Of course, none of the news articles ever mentions how much the typical annual rise in consumption was prior to that. I would figure it was probably on the order of 5%, so the actual CONSERVATION last year and the year before was about 7% each year. Still doesn't seem like much, considering how much the prices have risen.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
n Europe pizzas are usually delivered on mopeds, at least on my experience. Might be a good idea for here.
That might work in some downtown areas where traffic is slow and congested. I've seen pizza delivery guys on mopeds and scooters in downtown DC. Unfortunately, I've also heard that one downside of delivery by moped/scooter is that it tends to make the pizzas slide around in the box when they go around tight corners, and that can mess them up.
Back when I delivered pizzas though, I wouldn't have been caught dead on a moped or scooter out in the suburbs. That would have just been asking for trouble. Heck, just putting a sign on your car is asking for trouble. And not just from robbery. People will mess with you when they see that sign on your car. Cut you off, run a stop sign to get in front of you, call into the store to complain about you even if you're doing nothing wrong, etc.
Back when I delivered pizzas, I'd always do it in stealth mode, no sign. I simply told management up front that by carrying that sign, that THEY are bearing the full responsibility for anything that happens to me while I advertise for them. Dunno how well it would hold up in court, but they'd always back down.
Comments
Its $3.65 here in the burbs of Chicago :sick:
Going to Davenport to shop and see movies, you must live in northern IL near either I-80 or I-88 west of I-39. I know some people out that way in Princeton, they are hurting because the need to burn a gallon of gas to to pick up groceries.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you want to have a more luxurious lifestyle I suggest you start figuring out how to make more $.
My real concerns are around the trickle down effects of rising gas prices - so we go to fewer movies - theaters close, kids and adults looking for the supplemental second job lose opportunity. Cost of transporting goods increases - those hikes are passed on to the consumer, and since we don't all have the room/ability to grow our own food and clothing, everyone is affected, some more than others... and so on, and so on...
An article in yesterday's aper actually addressed that we now take many luxuries for granted. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-04-17-options-standard-loaded_N.htm
Maybe if we spent less on the car, we'd have more $ for the gas?
Your concerns abut the trickle-down effect are real. However it is increased economic activity which is running up our fossil fuel use. Something has to give. The more people on Earth the less for each! Maybe we better hope that we don't find a way to keep every living to 200? or 300?
farout
However, David, the hard facts are that the energy situation is not as simple as one solution will resolve the majority of problems. It seems to me that you may have some other issues other than just energy, to suggest boycotting every last automaker except Honda.
Natural gas has it's problems, like lack of lubercation to the valves, just to name one. To suggest that one fuel or automaker can solve the energy crisis is rather narrow thinking. When we take many great solutions and each accomplishes a singificant reduction in polution, and energy savings, that will be the better way.
To suggest that we should boycott US vehicles is mindless, and would serve only to put our economy, and financial furture in the tolet and flush ourselves down the sewer! You can't be serious? This is a country that we have freedom to earn and spend as we see fit. At least that is what many have fought and died for to have and cherrish.
I say that for anyone to state a Auto maker from Japan should be the ONLY vehicle in the US us to say the least offensive. Japan owes the US big time! Had not the US spent millions upon millions of US citizens hard earned tax dollars to rebuild their country, Japan would be in the same shape as North Korea is today.
US automakers have taken a bad rap from such bias magizines as Consumer Reports, which unless it's made anywhere but the US is a better vehicle! Bull Pucky!
So you just might want to re-think your request to boycott US automakers. David, it's a real bad idea!
farout
Or the Trek. Think outside the box.
Gas around the St. Louis area jumped from $3.37 to $3.49 recently. I drove in that day since it was raining and stopped by the last station that was still at the old $3.37/gal rate. I figured I could fill up and let the car sit home for the rest of April.
Lots of people were at the lower price station, compared to the rest of the area. You wouldn't think people would be so eager to buy $3.37/gal gas. The oil companies are doing a good job of conditioning people for the eventual $4 mark.
Supposedly though, in recessionary times, movie theaters actually do quite well. I forget where I saw the stats, probably Microsoft Money, but in 7 of the last 9 bleak periods for the economy, box office receipts would actually rise. The rationale, I've heard, is that when the times are bad, people like to go to the movie theater to escape from reality for a couple hours.
I was out near Harper's Ferry, West VA today, and saw a gas station pushing 93 octane for $3.829 per gallon. So $4.00 per gallon isn't far off!
Long story short-gas is not where it is at, you are right we have to think outside the box...lets get extreme, no more gas guzzlers, force automakers like GM, Ford and Chrysler's to create a green industry for transportation to compete with the fuel efficient car companies like Smart car, the Japanese cars,make and sell inexpensive scooters and mopeds that get 70-100 miles to a gallon,use commuter electric cars or fuel cell cars, force city cousels across the nation to make bicycle lanes like they have in most international cities. When I was in Switzerland most people had small cars, it was the norm, acceptable even to the extreme with 3 wheeled versions like go carts. Lets encourage companies like Chrysler to build their dune buggy-like Renegade hybrid with the 1 L diesel-electric engine that gets 70-80 miles to the gallon and beats the Prius, lets see them compete. People will get desperate, I already have seen cars on the side of the road because people ran out of gas. It is just crazy !
my kids never throw plastic in the recycle box.
they don't turn stuff off if they are done using it(lights, radio, etc).
today we went up the street to the neighbors to eat and cook on the grille.
we brought our own food. my wife wanted to drive there.
it was about a 3 minute walk.
i went in the shed and brought out the old radio flyer wagon.
we put everything in it and we walked. everyone made it ok.
Interesting report from the Commission for Integrated Transport. Cutting out the parking places looks to be the best way to encourage heavy use of mass transit.
Transit riders in Montreal cover only 55 per cent of the annual operating costs of nearly 750 million dollars. Wierd pdf link best cut and pasted: www.regionomics.com/INDUS/Karachi-transit.pdf
The Paris Metro also requires a subsidy - on the other hand, the mass transit railway in Hong Kong makes a huge profit. Property Rights, Planning and Markets
btw, paragraph breaks are free here.
With the huge run up in home values around the USA you would think other communities would be flush with money also.
:confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
I thought part of the mess people are in is because home values have dropped like a lead balloon and owners now owe more on their higher interest loan than the house is worth.
Thus, they cannot refinance or afford the current monthly payment and foreclosures are at an all-time high.
When your home goes down in value it is not an automatic tax reduction. You have to fight for it.
And of course $4 gas will not help matters. Though I have not seen a slow down or reduction in traffic with the higher priced gas. I have to assume people have way more money than they know what to do with it.
Can you suggest any modern thought on how the US should proceed with its forboding transportation problem ? I have not read all the string here but has there been any consensus on the best form of transport car wise yet ? Would the world economies topple if energy for cars were very cheap if not free ? Right now the Japanese Space agency,the European Space Agency and the Space Island Group want to build and orbit massive solar satellites that collect and beam the energy down to earth to microwave reciever stations that will convert it to electricity and will theoretically have unlimited free electricity,theoretically.... Wow, energy problem solved, no more pollution ! Electric cars here we come.
FYI, the government is spending multi-billions on a mass transit space program to put people in space hotels (Bigelow Aerospace), a Space Elevator (Liftport,Sedco), and land humans on Mars in 2030 (Boeing,Lockheed Martin, NASA). Hmmm, I guess we do not have enough money or political fortitude to save this planet, lets go to Mars !
But I like the idea.
Why should they? Their dad is a millionare, right?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That would be true if they kept the increases. My readings suggest that many communities started reducing mill rates or states gave property tax rebates. In ND we received a 10% property tax rebate. ND is flush with oil tax money to the tune of $500,000,000 or so. That works out to about $787 for every person in the state. The Republicans in the legislature are getting a bit nervous about spending any of the money. Instead of setting up a nice infrastructure fund for roads, bridges, water or sewer they will likely give it back. That would be the wrong thing to do, the oil money will not last forever. Now is the time to fix things up.
Keep in mind that local and state governments are also feeling the heat from the high fuel prices. Any budget for fuel created last year will be wrong. Fuel costs for police cars, school buses and garbage trucks are hurting local communities.
My suggestion would be to look at an actual local or state government budget and calculate the cost increases over the last few years. They are in the same boat we are with regards to high fuel costs.
Actually, things are normal not crazy. Gasoline prices will go up and down in the short term. For the long term gas prices will continue to rise. People just do not want to deal with it on a logical level. When one person buys a vehicle that gets 13/19 mpg it is not a big deal. When 10 million people buy a similar vehicle it has an impact. People do not understand how their one purchase makes a difference. Multiple that by millions....
In a logical world many of your thoughts would make sense. BUT, we do not live in a logical world. We live in a country that is more into; I want, I want, I want..... We revolt when the government tells us what we should do. We dis any politician that suggests we conserve.
The car culture in this country is still much to strong to make major inroads on efficient transportation. Will it change? I would say yes, but with the caveat that it will take years of $4, $5 and likely $10 a gallon gasoline before we can get to where you propose.
Sometimes you need to hit people square in the mouth with a baseball bat before they will change. Higher prices are starting to do that. Right now we are in the anger stage where people are trying to blame everyone but themselves. Its China, its India, its the oil companies, its...........Things are changing, slowly but surely.
One final point. Part of this is a generational thing. People of my age and older grew up or started driving when gasoline was cheap. They are both in positions of power and in denial. When the younger generation takes power, one that started to drive when gas was not cheap, they will be better able to deal with the reality.
Sold a beautiful 69 Chevelle for peanuts and bought a $3200.00 puddle jumper to "save gas"
What it did - ended up costing me more than the rise of the price of gas over the period of ownership.
This time around- Save the shift in vehicles to the more gullable- drive less- and adjust spending in other areas of my life. When its time to replace the vehicle- those conditions will dictate what I buy.
Hey its Earth Day on Tuesday April 22nd. Get out there to the rallies it should be very fun...
I don't agree about the 'more people, less to go around theory'. Gas companies use any excuse to raise the price of gas, use is less lets raise it, use is more lets raise it, hey there was an hurricane on key oil drilling stations lets raise it, some terrorists attacked a oil refinery lets raise it....got the picture.
If we could put people on the moon, we should have the capability to solve our problems here. I think gas is a no brainer.
Same here, but I drove a mini-puddle jumper (71 Corolla - 1700 pounds). The 70s was a short term spike in petrol. This time around the spike isn't really a spike so much as a long term trend.
If you look at the number of cars expected to be produced by India and China in the next few years, we can expect to see the same or higher prices. Mideast countries are expanding like crazy and using gobs of energy. In the U.S. we are making some minor course corrections.
I agree that when it comes time to replace the vehicle we should look at conditions. The trick will be to anticipate what conditions are going to be through the life of the vehicle - the part where it is sitting in our driveway anyhow.
My experience back in 2001 was a case in point. I bought a 6 cylinder instead of the 4. Two or three years later and prices for gasoline take off. Next time around I plan to pay more attention to supply and demand.
For anyone interested, the EIA has some interesting presentations related to gasoline on their web site. The Halff presentation, Petroleum: Keeping Pace with
a Rapidly Changing Sector, talks about why diesel is higher than gasoline in the States (page 7).
http://www.eia.doe.gov/eia_conference_2008.html?featureclicked=1&
Edmonton has a bunch of underground pedestrian tunnels for winter walking in the downtown core. Haven't been there in the winter either; maybe a lurking Canadian can tell us how they work out.
I don't think there is any one solution. There are many ways to attack the problem, and what tact you take depends on lots of factors, like the location or population density.
Mass transit seems to work better in congested areas. Electric cars could be big in the Southwest where sunshine is abundant. I want to see compact hybrid electric car batterys so you can charge one in the sun all day and swap it out with the spent one at night.
But ICE isn't going away any time soon. Too much infrastructure to abandon, even at $8 or $10 a gallon.
I liked that Halff quote, Avalon02:
Knowledge is a voyage from error to error.
Today I read about the Chinese manufacturer BYD and their new e6 all-electric vehicle. BYD does batteries very, very well. They manufacture their own batteries for usage in cell phones and now in automobiles they make. This e6 crossover model goes about 200 miles on a charge and also re-"up" charges to an 80% charge in about a half hour. Same deal, you can get a 220V fully-completely re-charge in about 13 hours in your carport at home. This one is ready now for our driving needs here in Arizona. Concerns remain, such as, reliability, safety, homogolation, etc., etc. But emissions are nought, so that one is fully taken care of by the propulsion technology built in!
The BYD e6 is being displayed at the Beijing Auto Show right now. Humm...seems to me I read an article a while back about BYD intending to export all-EV's to the States. Indeed that is what it said. The BYD e6 and the Mitsubishi i-MIEV are the two top-runners for me to replace my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS in about 5 years. By then the choices will no doubt be larger to choose from.
Also, there is a company in America, on the East Coast if memory serves me, that is currently working on retro-fitting a car of your choice for the all-electric propulsion mode. Need the info. on this one. Anyway, I don't want a hybrid, I am more interested in taking a totally electrical leap in to the unknown. Think of me as a guinea pig for all things bright and shiny and new...and unknown...and...scary. :shades:
I am tired of these futures-trading clowns calling the shots on how much I "have" to pay at the pump. Something seems rotten and nasty in Denmark when Exxon-Mobil makes a profit of $43 B in the 4th quarter of 2007. And this is "OK" with everyone? And it's just "supply/demand" economics playing out, huh?
Sure thing.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
There are a few conversion companies out there. Electro Automotive is the one site I've spent some time on.
I also don't want to be working 24/7 to afford all that which makes up modern luxurious living if I have no time to enjoy it. My girlfriend might still be around to enjoy the fruits of my labors after I've passed on from a heart attack.
I refuse to go into deep debt like too many have. The ability to sleep at night without fear of the repo man or bankruptcy court is worth more than all the exotic vacations, sporty vehicles, or fancy electronic do-dads in the world.
On the other hand, I don't want to end up living a life of deprivation as did my great grandparents who toiled very hard in the Northeast Pennsylvania anthracite coal mines, though I see most of U.S. society heading back in that direction.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Heck, I'm sure a lot of people would view my lifestyle as masochistic as "Little House on the Prairie". Or, "The Waltons", at best. :P The higher gas prices at the pump don't really bother me. However, what does concern me is how it seems to be affecting the price of everything else. I haven't really been paying attention, but grocery prices have been shooting up at an alarming rate from what I've heard. We try to buy our stuff in bulk at Costco, so maybe that's insulating me, personally a bit.
I think it's a matter of people not being used to them. Paris has lots of roundabouts and traffic seems to flow around them fairly smoothly. The Parisian drivers are not all that timid, however.
We have a small one at the entrance to our subdivision. I think it's great. It's been there for a few years but I still see an occasional driver stop in the middle of it, who apparently doesn't know that any vehicle already in the roundabout has the right-of-way.
They also have the cool looking ecoVoyager fuel cell-hybrid and Jeep Renegade diesel-electric hybrid in the works.
Speaking about charging car batteries on electric cars-can anyone suggest a solar panel company that sells a charging unit out there that I can be installed on my garage roof or car port with some kind of battery charging conversion unit to hook up to the battery when I do get that electric car ? I cringe at the prospect of charging a giant battery for 13 hours a day only to face the piper at the end of the month with a huge electric bill.
I
No, we don't pay for parking where I work. It is off the beaten path and out in the burbs, so it might start a riot if they charged employees for parking - access to transit there is very limited. Which is a great shame, considering it is only 20 miles out of San Francisco. Unfortunately, it is one of the only two counties (out of 9)touching the bay that is not served by the subway or the train system. :-(
Was out with friends yesterday evening in their minivan - we were headed to get pizza, stopped to get gas after stopping at the ATM, they had to pay $3.87/gallon for regular unleaded, and with the size of the tank in that thing it was almost $80 for the fill-up!!! My friend had not done the math prior to getting money out of the machine, and we had to go stop at the ATM AGAIN so he would have enough pizza money for his family. After they gave all their money to ARCO to fill the tank in their van, they will be eating IN the rest of the week......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A lot of talking-head economists are spewing out propoganda, telling us that "everything's okay.... the markets are holding up ..... the economy is absorbing higher fuel costs......" Don't believe it.
The economy only appears to be holding up because it's so big that it takes time to change direction. Also because the fed is using every trick in the book to prop it up -- radically lowering interest rates, bailing out failed investment banks, lying about inflation and unemployment rates. These days, CNBC beats out the Comedy Channel for laughs-per-minute.
The average family can absorb gas prices up to $2 with little effect. Up to $2.50, they can compensate by making small sacrifices such as car-pooling to work, combining errands, staying home to play in the back yard instead of going to the city park, etc. But at $3.50, they've already trimmed the economic fat, and they're forced to cut into the meat of their lifestyles.
The story regarding a family sacrificing dining out to pay for gas gets told thousands of times a day now. And it will soon be families at the grocery store sacrificing name brand food for generic equivalents to pay for gas.
And when basics like food are affected, you know that recreation, vacations, and other luxury expenses have already gone bye-bye. After the average family pays for food, clothing, and shelter (after they pay taxes, of course), there's no money left for fun. This is how economies go into recession. Money simply stops flowing.
I wonder how many of you all have similar stories -- how you're scrimping in other parts of your budgets to pay for higher gas, higher food, etc.?
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I can't imagine what it would be like to deliver pizzas under today's gas prices - even with a Prius.
I have a second job I do part-time in which I travel to different locations. It's a great part-time gig and pays well for what it is, but I'm wondering if it is even worth doing anymore with fuel prices being what they are. There are no set hours. I can finish a job in as little as two hours or I can be there all night. I've been doing this job a long time, but the newbies make a rather modest pay. I wonder how long they'll be able to hang in there?
I've been poor and Sav-A-Lot food is awful. I wouldn't trust their meat, the candy is stale, and the soda is so sugary and disgusting you feel as if your teeth are rotting and you're getting diabetes simultaneously as you drink it. I can imagine the average suburban family driving to the 'hood to do their weekly grocery shopping.
Pretty soon all those other luxuries will go. The cable TV will be cancelled. Cell phones will be scrapped in favor of a handful of change to use at pay phones. Internet access will be cancelled. I'll know things are bad when I log into Edmunds and it is just me and four others in here.
Even gas stations have degraded over the years with the run up in fuel prices. Whereas the attendant was once the sharply uniformed Man from Texaco with a spiffy cap and bowtie or a friendly rube like Goober who would take the time to ask about your family as he checked your oil, tire pressure, and cleaned your windshield, he is now some recent immigrant from the Third World hiding behind bulletproof glass hoping the local thugs don't kill him.
with something like a Prius it might not be too bad. Back when I did it with my '68 Dart, I probably averaged 12-13 mpg in that type of driving. Gas was maybe $1.20 per gallon on a bad day. So figure it was costing me about 9-10 cents per mile.
This morning on the way to work, I noticed 87 octane is running around $3.50 per gallon. So to equal the cost per mile I was averaging with that Dart, back in 1996-1997, today you'd need a car that could get 35-38 mpg in that type of driving.
Then, figure that inflation has gone up around 30% since then. So $1.20 back in 1996-1997 is about the equivalent to $1.55-1.60 today. So if you could get 27-30 mpg in that type of driving, it would be about the equivalent, inflation-adjusted, of what it was costing me back in 1996-1997.
I imagine that overall business is down, though. Pizza really isn't a very cost-effective way to feed your family to begin with, and having it delivered only increases that cost. Back in my heyday, on a busy Friday night, I'd walk out of the store sometimes with 4-5 deliveries at once. I have a friend whose sister works for Dominos, and sometimes if we're in the area, we'll stop by and get a pizza. I've noticed on Friday nights when I've been there, at what would normally be the peak times, their drivers were walking out the door with 1-2 deliveries.
They can't be making much money that way, and it probably wastes a lot of gas.
From the Philadelphia newspaper:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080421_Fuel_prices_take_a_bite_out- _of_drivers__budgets.html
As for cutting back, I already did most of that "economizing" stuff back when gas was $1.50 so all I do now is pay more for food and not go driving around as much as I used to.
Tom Ross nodded. A part-time employee at the station... "I used to go to North Carolina - the Outer Banks - four, five times a year," Ross said. "I know I'm not going this year."
Where was he getting the money for that? Perhaps he also works in an "undocumented" business? :confuse:
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/homepage/20080421_Big_spike_in_pump_prices- .html
My own 150 mi commute now is costing 6.8 cents / mi every day. But at $4.00 it would jump to over 8 cents / mi. At some point even a Prius doesn't mitigate the pain enough. Gen3 Prius 'C'mon Down'!!!
Hmm, no cable here, no cell. Free internet thanks to the ISP access point dish on my roof. My wife got diagnosed with a bunch of food allergies so we're spending lots more on organic type foods, but just about quit eating out.
About the only place left to cut would be to go back to one car and hitch up to the ski hill in the winter. Did the former for ~10 of the last 25 years so that's easy enough, and I biked/hitched to Bogus a lot when we lived close in to town.
Maybe a move is in our future.
I think another consequence of high gas prices, assuming they stay high while consumption decreases (is that possible?), is that some gas stations will close. So you'll have to wind up driving farther just to get gas.
Yes, that's possible if the price of oil rises more rapidly than demand declines, as has been the case for the last four years.
It's hard to believe that demand is only declining 2% per year since 2005. Of course, none of the news articles ever mentions how much the typical annual rise in consumption was prior to that. I would figure it was probably on the order of 5%, so the actual CONSERVATION last year and the year before was about 7% each year. Still doesn't seem like much, considering how much the prices have risen.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That might work in some downtown areas where traffic is slow and congested. I've seen pizza delivery guys on mopeds and scooters in downtown DC. Unfortunately, I've also heard that one downside of delivery by moped/scooter is that it tends to make the pizzas slide around in the box when they go around tight corners, and that can mess them up.
Back when I delivered pizzas though, I wouldn't have been caught dead on a moped or scooter out in the suburbs. That would have just been asking for trouble. Heck, just putting a sign on your car is asking for trouble. And not just from robbery. People will mess with you when they see that sign on your car. Cut you off, run a stop sign to get in front of you, call into the store to complain about you even if you're doing nothing wrong, etc.
Back when I delivered pizzas, I'd always do it in stealth mode, no sign. I simply told management up front that by carrying that sign, that THEY are bearing the full responsibility for anything that happens to me while I advertise for them. Dunno how well it would hold up in court, but they'd always back down.