Are gas prices fueling your pain?

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    There were water injection systems many, many moons ago. They had a water tank under the hood and apparently drizzled the water into the intake manifold after the carburetor using the vacuum to pull in the water in appropriate ratios. It may have had a switch to turn it off at idle. It was supposed to increase gasoline mileage. I never owned one but did see one installed on someone's car.

    It used the concept that high humidity seemed to make cars run better in the carburetor days. Driving during a heavy, humid rain or fog seemed to make the motor run better. So giving some water to mist into the cylinders may have helped. If nothing else it probably kept the carbon deposits off the pistons and valves.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    Create policies that strengthen the dollar. Reduce the deficit. Decrease spending. Stimulate the economy. Stop devaluing the dollar in the first place.

    Economic stimulus typically devalues a currency.
  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    I could see this having the same benefit as a cold air intake. Colder air is denser with more potential to expand. This results in more power and possibly better mpg.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    It is difficult to believe, but I have read the information on the site water4gas.com.

    Wow makes me a believer. ;) We might also try to find a site that claims "water cures cancer"?

    If you're going to mix water in your gas, don't forget the sugar too! :D

    The marketing angle of these sites is "most people will laugh, but even if we only get 0.1% of the people to believe, we'll make a ton of money?"

    It looks like the Iranians have figured how to get some extra income. The price of oil jumped this morning, by having one of their boats provoke a shot from a U.S. ship in the Gulf.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Not necessarily. Lowering the Discount Rate does though. And guess what Bernake has been doing lately?
  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    A year ago gas was around $2.90/gallon nationally, today it's $3.58, an increase of 23%. A year ago the price of oil was $64/barrel, today it's $119, an increase of 86%. Since oil doesn't make up the entire cost of gasoline the rise and fall in oil prices will typically exceed the rise and fall of gasoline prices but it shouldn't be this far out of whack. Even if oil prices level off or drop a little I think we can expect the price of gasoline to continue to climb for awhile. By Memorial Day we may have to rename this thread.

    Go to gasbuddy.com and bring up the historical chart with oil prices superimposed. You will see a very noticeable divergence between oil prices and gas prices during the past year. Some of this can be explained by the devaluation of the dollar but not all of it. I believe this will eventually correct itself.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    A reporter would like to talk with anyone who recently downsized from a big SUV to a smaller vehicle. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience no later than Tuesday, April 29, 2008.
    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds Inc.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    I discovered that our employee incentive to carpool (or ride transit) isn't $4/week, it is $4 per DAY. $20/week. $80/month.

    Can you check into that to see if it covers non-motorized vehicles? I haven't heard of any such incentive around here but the idea sounds promising.

    I'm really curious if bicycle commuters are offered the same breaks as other gas saving commuters.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    No they drive their own cars (trading off, doing one week at a time each) and they stop at the toll booth, where the toll collector waves them on once he/she sees there are at least three people in the car.

    So any car with three or more people get a free pass? So me and a few friends could just be joyriding and we would get a pass.

    It would be very cool if there were special transponders for registered carpools,

    It could be done, I have a special one that allows me to commute and not get charged. But I can only use it when I am going to or coming back from work. Other times I have to switch to my normal one.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "but it shouldn't be this far out of whack. "

    It can be for at least two reasons. 1. Not all crude oil is at $119 a barrel. Some of the Rocky Mountain crude oil can sell for a lot less. Too much oil production saturated several pipelines resulting in a big drop in price last year. Just recently, WTI was going for $116 on 4/18 but U.S. oil was only $105. I have seen it a lot worse or a bigger spread. In Jan, 2008 ND producers were getting only $84.86 for a barrel.

    http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/f002038__3M.htm

    http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_crude.html

    2. Refinery margins will vary. More recently the margins have dropped. If the oil is $90 a barrel and the margin is $35 your wholesale price is $125. If oil rises to $115 a barrel but the margin drops to $11 you get $126 a barrel for the product out of the refinery.

    "Refiner Margin - Refiner Margin (costs and profits) is calculated by subtracting the market price for crude oil from the wholesale price of gasoline. The result is a gross refining margin which includes the cost of operating the refinery as well as the profits for the refining company."
    http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    Just picked up the new issue of C&D. The headline at the top was "Compared: Eight Fun Sedans with High MPG" Does this mean the car mags will be talking about mpg instead of HP...probably not. There favorite car of the group was the VW Rabbit which averaged 22 mpg. Not sure I would call that HIGH mileage..

    The biggest title was THE FAST LANE. Below that was The Slow Lane (Smart ForTwo). And of course there was the story on the 416hp this and the 552 hp that...

    As gasoline prices go past $4/gallon the car magazine will see a smaller and smaller audience. They still seem to be rooted in the idea that HP is good and MPG is bad. In an article on plug-in hybrids the comment in bold was "... the battery has enough juice to produce 644 horsepower for one minute."
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I am not so sure that their audience will shrink that much. There will always be auto fanatics that like high HP cars, even if they drive prius's (Prui?). So they will still be selling to readers who want to read all about those 552 hp dinosaurs (face it how many of their readers drive those things anyway?).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    I would phrase that either "a Prius" or" Priuses."

    My only concerns in a car are MPG ,comfort and dependability.I couldn't care less about HP.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    I think that auto mags are already doing some transition, however C&D makes no apology for their bias - performance, as measured by driving fun. I for one, hope that there will always be an audience, since it is great to have the moment of wishing. In the article you cite, C&D notes that the Corolla (#3) was easy on gas, so they ARE noticing, and they note that the Rabbit was a relative pig, so they are putting the info out there, for the reader to make a decision.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    My only concerns in a car are MPG ,comfort and dependability.I couldn't care less about HP.

    One of the great things about choice.... :)

    I go for performance (as measured by handling), performance (as measured by HP), comfort, dependability, THEN MPG. However, I also believe that we are kinda over the top with the ever increasing HP numbers.

    Interesting thought I just had... what if the published HP number was measured at the wheels, and BHP was capped at some number, let's say 300? Then you would see real effort being put into reducing/eliminating driveline loss, with increasing efficiency throughout the system.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,131
    About that CD article - the Rabbit average 22 mpg, not what I call 'good'. They got the same out of an Avalon. I'd like to see what they'd do if they set a reasonable minimum, say 25 mpg.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would like to see what the diesel Rabbit gets for mileage. I would expect somewhere in the 45-50 MPG range. With superior highway driveability.
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    You do realize that gasoline prices are high because demand is high?
    Not necessarily true. Gas prices have been manipulated and raised for several reasons and every concievable excuse used, not just demand.
    Also, if your theory is correct allowing the world a choice to an alternate set of energy sources and fuel for transportation would decrease demand for gas but there is no proof that the price of gas would drop once alternate energy projects were implemented and usage lessened. Actually raising the price has occured historically when usage lessened.
    I am still waiting for super fuel efficient American cars to be made available that compare to the Toyota Prius's gas mileage. Why don't we have them already ? Isn't it odd that there has not be a single line of super fuel efficient cars made from each of the big 3 yet, are they so behind or lack the engineering skills to compete ?? Or are their interests tied to the gas companies profits. The engineering and technology have existed for years. Why didn't the big automakers offer a choice of Prius-like cars (60/51 mpg) years ago at least to keep pace with Toyota and compete in that sector ? Europe has had them for years now, not uncommon to see 3 wheeled cars there.
    Just this year 2008 superdiesel fuels have come available and TDI engines for sale in the US, why did it take so long ? Because it is not demand that dictates price, it is the companies that sell gas and refine oil that dictate price. They can state any reason they wish, the truth will not be realized immediately nor will they let you know what that truth is, you have to figure it out and do something about it.

    Low prices will make them lazy. Their businesses are inefficient. Eventually their governments will run out of money and the subsidies will evaporate.
    Amazing, the US is not lazy,inefficient, and subsidies will not evaporate here although the US has kept the price of gas very low in comparison to most other countries in the world except Venezuela :). The US has been made strong because of this. The US is a huge vast country that needs cheap transportation to make it run. It has developed an infrastructure dependant on cheap gas prices but not gas efficiency, and an utter dependancy on gas to make it run. Just now this is being realized by the public. Change is coming. At $7 a gallon people will be very desperate. Growth will slow or maybe even receed here.
    What will we do ? Ride bicycles, mopeds, scooters,buy Prius's, walk, run, recycle 95% of what we produce like water/paper/plastic/cardboard/glass/cars etc(like in Germany and Japan). We will buy cheap food or grow our own. install solar panels on our garages to power our houses and electric cars, install electric generation wind mills, nuclear power plants (advanced Candu reactors very safe record used extensively in Canada) that emit very little pollution than coal fired plants with scrubbers, implement a full solar power program for all businesses rooves like they are doing in California, conserve our forests, lakes and streams as best we can and replant deforested areas.

    This forum asks what we will do at $4 dollars a gallon. The high gas prices affect the politics, lives of the people here and change will occur. People need choices and that is what this forum is about. Discussing what we will do also implies if we have suggestions or solutions to offer.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I am still waiting for super fuel efficient American cars to be made available that compare to the Toyota Prius's gas mileage. Why don't we have them already ? Isn't it odd that there has not be a single line of super fuel efficient cars made from each of the big 3 yet, are they so behind or lack the engineering skills to compete ??

    Actually, GM has developed it's own hybrid technology (real hybrid that is) and Ford is using Toyota's. However, both have used said technologies only on SUVs and other large vehicles to decrease their fuel usage. Now, given the (hopefully former) US love-affair with such vehicles, it makes sense that putting them there would have a greater impact, but yeah, it is kind of disappointing, especially when you look at the pseudo-hybrid technology used in the Malibu, Vue, and Aura.

    On the other hand, I've been reading about hybrid school-buses, in which case the hybrid drivetrain literally doubles the fuel economy (from 5 MPG "atrocious" to 10 MPG "really bad" heh). If every school bus in the US was replaced with a hybrid, that would be a significant impact on fuel consumption, and the hybrid technology is ideally suited for that sort of stop-and-go driving.

    Us highway drivers, however, will have to settle for Fits, Civics, and Elantras, and the like, since American car companies can't make money on small cars if their lives depended on it. Hence, they invest as little as possible into their design and manufacture. That's why Malibus and Fusions and such have really improved so much, but Aveos, Focuses, etc seem so bad compared to the Asian competition.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If every school bus in the US was replaced with a hybrid, that would be a significant impact on fuel consumption, and the hybrid technology is ideally suited for that sort of stop-and-go driving.

    Do you have any idea how much those hybrid buses cost? Last I read it was near $700k per bus. It takes over 30 years to recoup the hybrid premium with fuel savings. In fact some studies show there is no fuel savings.

    Seattle Metro’s GM-Allison diesel parallel-hybrid buses are falling far short of the promised fuel savings of 40%—in some cases, delivering worse mileage than the older (and dirtier) dual-mode Breda buses they replaced, according to a report in the Seattle Post Intelligencer.

    Most cities cannot afford them for their busy transit buses. I know our local school districts are getting their funding cut. Most kids do not ride the bus as it costs more than having the parents take them to school in the Suburban. Most school districts have not even upgraded their diesel buses with particulate traps.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Actually Ford developed their own system, it just turned out to be similar to Toyota's...and Toyota developed it's own, it just turned out to be similar to Fords. Rather than sue each other and block the development of hybrids across the entire spectrum of buyers they decided to 'play nice' and 'exchange licenses' rather than make a bunch of lawyers wealth(ier).
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Do you have any idea how much those hybrid buses cost? Last I read it was near $700k per bus. It takes over 30 years to recoup the hybrid premium with fuel savings. In fact some studies show there is no fuel savings.

    Yep, that's a lot...hey, no one said life was cheap. ;) Prices will probably come down eventually...but the question is whether it'll be in time to do any good. As for the fuel savings, of course it's going to be variable, and heavily based on the type of driving involved (do your studies mention what type of driving conditions they looked at?) Hybrid drivetrains thrive on stop-go-stop-go driving: it allows the batteries to be charged via coasting and regenerative braking, and then uses that power for propulsion. The less of that that occurs, the less fuel savings there will be. So a hybrid bus, on, say, a field trip, or taking a team to a game, is going to show no fuel savings over a bus that stops every block to take on or discharge passengers.

    Hybrids aren't a cure-all magic pill, like many would have us believe. They're excellent for city driving, or any sort of driving with a lot of stop/go work. That's it.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,254
    "...I've been reading about hybrid school buses...doubles the fuel economy..."

    The hybrid our school district runs doesn't do that well in the real world. Diesels get about 7-8 mpg the hybrid gets 9-10. About 25% improvement. The cost is about 120K vs. 70K for the regular bus. From a strictly money saving view point I don't think the pay off is there yet.

    I agree that buses are a place to start though. Any vehicle that has lots of stop-go cycles is helped by the regenerative braking systems on hybrids.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,784
    considering you sell toyota's, thanks for the fair relpy.
    i wouldn't be surprised if part of the agreement was to not compete in the same market for x number of years (advantage toyota).
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    If you see the rest of the Western World,you will see that our gas prices are dirt cheap. I hear some talk that by 2011 we might see gas prices reaching $7.00.
    That does 4 bucks look like a bargain. :sick:
  • mister015mister015 Member Posts: 2
    I'm working at this right now. I have a meticulous 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee LMTD
    admittedly mileage loaded (170 K) Looks like new. Runs perfect. Doesn't matter to the dealers. Only offering 2500-3000 in trade. But I have discovered taht making dealerships tell me up front what they will give me before I discuss with them what I'm willing to pay & purchase is the best way to go. My mindset - the hell with thinking what they might do for me later - make them know I will treat the dealership the way they treat me - they go 1st. I then insist on knowing invoice price & work from that up. This puts me (the buyer) in the "driver seat". Vehicle to purchase - Vibe - trading in smooth post-luxury for economical/fuel efficient.
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    why would you consider trading a PAID for vehicle for a new one and increase
    your cost? makes no sense.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have a meticulous 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee LMTD
    admittedly mileage loaded (170 K) Looks like new. Runs perfect.


    Do yourself a favor. Take some nice pictures and post it on Craigslist. It is free and it works. If you think you are going to get the best of a car dealer your dreaming. Then again why would you sell a nice comfortable paid for vehicle? There is more to life than high mileage vehicles. After nearly two weeks driving a midsized CUV around Hawaii I would not consider a vehicle as small as an Equinox for my main driver.

    Welcome to the Forum
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "Not necessarily true. Gas prices have been manipulated and raised for several reasons and every concievable excuse used, not just demand."

    I guess I'm just not into the conspiracy theory explanation for high prices. Demand is always the driver in the market. So we could say that the market manipulates the price. People get all upset when the prices rise but are perfectly content when the same market forces push down the price.

    "there is no proof that the price of gas would drop once alternate energy projects were implemented and usage lessened. "

    Alternative energy projects will bring prices down if the alternative is cheaper and production costs of the original energy source are not too high. This is basic supply and demand you are arguing against. In some cases prices may not drop as much as expected because there is a relativley high production cost. For example, offshore production costs in the U.S. are running at $69 a barrel. If oil prices went below $69 companies would start canceling new offshore projects. The reduced supply would help bring prices back up.

    "Why don't we have them already ?"

    You probably should go talk to the Auto executives. ;) I suspect it is again related to supply and demand. Americans want bigger cars. It is only when gas prices soar that people think about MPG. The people that can afford new vehicles go for the extra size. People down the line that are buying used vehicles find the market full of larger vehicles and not that many smaller cars. Everyone that has bought a new car knows how the deal works. You go into buy x and the salesperson steers you to XXX because that is all they have on the lot and the payment will only be $300 a month (and in small print - "for the rest of your life.)

    "Amazing, the US is not lazy,inefficient, and subsidies will not evaporate here although the US has kept the price of gas very low in comparison to most other countries in the world except Venezuela"

    Yes, U.S. industry has become more efficient as the price of energy goes up. However, the U.S. does not apply a direct subsidy to gasoline. The U.S. has kept the gasoline price lower only because we do not add as many taxes as the Europeans. It is true that most countries have a higher gasoline price, but, on a population basis most of the world has cheaper prices. China, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Nigeria, Iran, KSA, and others subsidize their fuels. If you add up the populations you will find that at least half the people in the world get a break.
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    Chrysler is advertising their green concept cars:
    1-EcoVoyager, a 4 seater hydrogen fuel cell-electric car. Beautiful looking design, no dependance on gas whatsoever. I will definately consider buying this car next if they go through with manufacturing the vehicle. Now how where would I find a hydrogen filling station in Indianapolis ??
    2-Dodge ZEO-a full electric cool looking sports car-0-60 in under 6 seconds, and I thought efficiency was what we needed.
    3-Jeep Renegade-1L diesel-electric dune buggy 2 seater-very cool.

    How many years will we wait for these concept cars to become reality? Or will they remain concepts forever never to be sold as a regular purchasable cars by the public ?

    Oh well, Toyota presently has the best fuel efficient cars, are offering them now, and is what the US needs now. A friend of mine owns a Prius and says she has been tracking fuel usage and calculated she gets 90mpg, not 60/51mpg, wow ! GM, Fords and Chrysler's are taking their time-producing semi-efficient cars that don't compare. He who hesitates is lost.:)

    I will check Ford and GM's website to see if there is anything that comes close as a concept car to the Prius. Let's see what we get shall we ?? Of course Toyota is already ahead of the game with their concept cars light years ahead of the competitions.
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    $7 a US gallon is coming, the big gas companies stand to make multi-multi billions$ of dollars from us. Avoid the frustration. Time to junk all those gas guzzlers. The time is coming for drastic change.
    Start saving for a super fuel efficient car, or an alternate fuel car like a hydrogen fuel cell car, or electric car coupled with a solar panel charging station on your car port or garage. Get a bicycle or ride the bus just in case the new types of cars break down (since they have not worked the bugs out yet). We all need to live and get back and forth to work. We can do it...lets get efficient !
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The commodity traders are going to love this one:

    Strike in Scotland closes major North Sea oil pipeline

    It's a 48 hour strike but the gas lines are already forming.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    For example, offshore production costs in the U.S. are running at $69 a barrel.

    That seems awfully high. Last I checked it was only about $4 per barrel out of the Alaskan Arctic. I think Saudi production is similar. They have been producing off the coast of CA for decades when the prices were much lower than that. I have no idea what it costs to get oil from the tar sands in Canada. They were going great guns when it was below $50 per barrel.

    Currently there are no real alternatives being sold to fossil fuel. You cannot count ethanol with its huge use of coal, oil and natural gas to produce. Hydrogen requires more natural gas or electricity than just using the fossil fuel to start with. An electric car with nuclear power would be an alternative. So far they are all just on the drawing board in a tinkerers garage.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,131
    "Last I checked it was only about $4 per barrel out of the Alaskan Arctic. "

    Where'd $4/BO come from? O&M only? Still seems way low. Most oil companies are now showing finding and development (no operating) costs of $25/BO.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If that price includes all the taxes and exploration costs, I agree. My figure is just production from the well to the port.

    I believe the current tax on a barrel of oil from the Prudhoe Bay field is set at 25% of the wellhead price. With a progression rate upward when the per barrel price exceeds $92.50 per barrel. That is a low tax figure when you consider countries like Norway that tax oil at about 90%. It also puts into perspective where the money is going. In most cases it goes into the coffers of the government of the country that produces it. When CA gas is $3.50 per gallon over half of that is tax. If it is gas from the EU it could be as much as 90% taxes.
  • pat85pat85 Member Posts: 92
    Funny seeing some of the names from the old SUV forum.
    I got rid of my 4 Runner when the NC beach access got hosed up by the Audubon Society after they reneged on their deal to negotiate access to drivers on the beach. I actually did use my 4 Runner off road. I got spoiled being able to see farther ahead in the 4 Runner and adjust what lane to be in that was moving
    So good bye to 15 MPG.
    I traded the 4 Runner in on a Camry Hybrid. I am averaging about 38+ MPG with the TCH. That's about 2.5 times the MPG. of the 4 Runner
    The good thing is I have not had to give up comfort or safety with the TCH
    At $4 a gallon, I'll save about $160 a month driving 1000 miles. .
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    I got hit for darned close to $4.00 per gallon on Saturday nite. $3.899 for 93 octane near Harrisburg, PA, to be exact.

    I had originally planned to drive my 2000 Intrepid up there, to attend the Spring Carlisle swap meet. About 2 miles from home, the Intrepid died on me. It did finally re-start after several tries, and just didn't leave me with a warm, fuzzy quality feeling, so I got it back home and took off in my '79 5th Ave.

    And I was looking forward to hypermiling the Intrepid, too. :mad: Anyway, the low fuel light came once I got up there, so I refueled before coming back down. Took about 19 gallons, and the bill came to about $74. I think that's the highest fuel bill I've ever had. :sick:

    Coming back home, it rained hard the whole way, and for the most part I was only doing 45-55, with occasional romps to 60. So in a way, I guess I unintentionally went hypermiling in this old beast! Now that I'm back home, the gauge is still showing 3/4 of a tank, and I've gone 109 miles. I'm going to fill up tomorrow morning on my way into work. I'm really curious to see what kind of economy I got on that run back from PA. Wonder if I broke 20 mpg?
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    An electric car with nuclear power would be an alternative. So far they are all just on the drawing board in a tinkerers garage.
    Tinkerers in a garage ?? It is already reality and easy to do.
    Read this from Tesla motors website under FAQ's:
    Can the Tesla Roadster (electric car) use Solar Power?
    Yes. The Tesla Roadster can be recharged using solar energy. If you would like to use solar energy at your home, we would be happy to refer you to a qualified installer, including SolarCity.
    Apply Electric cars + solar to all cars saves $$$ and the environment.

    www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/foreign_oil.php
    ''Breath of fresh air. Electricity may be just one answer, but it's an especially desirable one. As the universal currency of energy, it can be generated from coal, solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear sources — or a combination of all of them. No matter how or when the world changes, electricity can adapt, easily and safely. See more environmental benefits.
    Reducing Dependence on Foreign Oil
    A Peaceful Solution to Oil Wars
    And more from the website:
    Incentives
    Save Some Green by Going Green
    You’ll save more than the environment by driving electric. Perks include tax incentives in select states as well as a variety of other conveniences. Here are some examples:
    Single-occupancy access to all carpool lanes in some states
    Free parking at charging stations at LAX and other airports
    No parking meter fees in an increasing number of major metropolitan areas
    Discount electrical rates for recharging and/or on the charging unit available in some states
    New laws and incentives are being added rapidly at the federal, state, and local levels, and it would be impossible to list them all. Contact your electric service provider to find out about green incentives in your town. Your city or county administrative offices should be able to update you on any parking benefits. State departments of motor vehicles tend to manage permits for single-occupancy driving in car pool lanes. For those who live in California, some sample references are listed below:
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    Get a bicycle or ride the bus just in case the new types of cars break down

    I suspect many people already have a bike. However, they probably leave it hanging on the garage wall with the tires dry-rotting. Until $7/gallon gas prices start hitting them more in the wallet the majority will see that bike as a toy instead of a way to save lots of money, both is fuel costs and health club memberships.

    In the meantime I will continue to read stories of people who drive 4 miles to work each and every day. :sick:

    I have an adult cycling friend with a full-time job on the east coast whose tag line reads "Car-free in PA." Not a bad idea, although grocery shopping might be a little limited.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    they don't have the sound of the conventional V8 throbbing through a pair of Flowmasters. :cry:
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    you advocate riding a bike with two small children among a slew of
    [non-permissible content removed] driver's on the road? Get Real. If your single and live reasonable close to work, bike away, if you have a family, your stuck driving.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    In the meantime I will continue to read stories of people who drive 4 miles to work each and every day.

    Hey, I resemble that! :P If it's any consolation, when you live that close to work, it's not like you're using that much gasoline anyway...even if you drive a guzzler. And I actually would consider riding my bike to work if it were safer.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    I have an adult cycling friend with a full-time job on the east coast whose tag line reads "Car-free in PA." Not a bad idea, although grocery shopping might be a little limited.

    I'd love biking to work - except I work out of my home office :). Actually, the practicality for those with office type jobs is not there, or at least at many businesses. When I worked for a corporation in lower Manhattan, and had satellite offices, I sometimes biked to an office, however I had the luxury of an enclosed office where I could park my bike - In fact, I also had two techs who biked in.

    A major issue is well, I sweat when I ride, and had no shower facilities at the office. We've not done a great job of bike friendly infrastructure though.
  • ronsmith38ronsmith38 Member Posts: 228
    For those who can, the best option is to not go to work at all. Telecommute!
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    If your single and live reasonable close to work, bike away, if you have a family, your stuck driving.

    No I'm not. I'm married and I have a daughter but I don't bring her to work with me. I don't see how having a family has anything to do with whether someone pedals to work.

    It's a 34-mile RT commute for me, family or not.

    If I could get something going like the person who posted the other day that his employer pays the workers $4/day to take mass transit or other economical transportation things would be even greater. Why not get paid for something I'm already doing for free. ;)
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    And I actually would consider riding my bike to work if it were safer.

    Yes, I remember the dangerous route you mentioned. There are some areas areas around where I live that are legally okay to ride on but I sure wouldn't do it, especially during afternoon rush hour.

    Fortunately, there are several different options for me.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    I agree it sounds high but that is what the EIA is reporting. I knew this because I just did a presentation on oil supply and demand to a bunch of geologists. It was in the presentation. Thanks should go to the oildrum folks for pointing it out. The link we give you a much nicer looking table. ;)

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/perfpro/tab12.htm

    Table 12. Total Production Costs by Region for FRS
    Companies, 2003-2005 and 2004-2006
    (2006 Dollars per Barrel of Oil Equivalent)
    Region 2003- 2005 2004- 2006 Percent Change
    United States
    Onshore 14.00 19.46 39.0
    Offshore 50.56 69.75 37.9
    Total United States 16.70 23.16 38.7
    Foreign
    Canada 23.84 26.59 11.5
    Europe 16.43 29.79 81.3
    Former Soviet Union 21.29 NM NM
    Africa 22.26 32.13 44.3
    Middle East 9.78 14.31 46.4
    Other Eastern Hemisphere 14.98 18.76 25.2
    Other Western Hemisphere 31.06 47.63 53.4
    Total Foreign 18.33 26.17 42.8

    Worldwide 17.45 24.29 39.2

    As to costs for producing the oil sands, I'm thinking they are around $30/barrel. New production has slowed somewhat with higher costs and Alberta is looking at raising tax rates.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Tar_Sands
    http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/oilsands/954.asp
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    $7 a gallon is coming, inflation guarantees that at some point in the distant future it will reach that price. :D

    As to it reaching $7 in the near future, I would say maybe and no. Maybe because prices can always go high for a short period. Prices are not likely to stay at $7 for any length of time. A price of $7 a gallon would imply a price of over $300 a barrel for oil. That will not happen. Let me repeat, that will not happen. :) Countries that subsidize oil would be forced to drop the subsidy and raise prices. Demand would drop like a stone in water.

    Many countries are already hanging by a thread. Go to http://energyshortage.org/

    $7 a gallon in the next few years? I have a better chance of being attacked by the bogeyman. :surprise:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogeyman
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    There used to be a poster, I think in this thread, who said they were hoping gas prices went up so demand would go down. They are getting their wish.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If you find a safer route, you can share it on Bikely. Or maybe someone has already posted one.
This discussion has been closed.

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