Are gas prices fueling your pain?

1122123125127128197

Comments

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    It looks like gasoline usage is somewhat elastic - demand changes with price. By "somewhat elastic" I mean driving is not Black or White. People still have the inelastic demand of their commute, but they do have some optional and recreational use which can be reduced.
    The article also discusses how the Fed. Reserve has been affecting the price.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-04-29-oil-tumbles-tue_N.htm-
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    "This is an area where people bought 2nd and 3rd homes with no intention of living in them but with the expectation of turning them over in a couple years for a ~25% profit."

    Yeah, the "Flip This House" mentality was way out of control. Here's a hint - if there's 5 TV shows on how to do it, it's no longer a good idea (kinda like all those resto-rod shows :sick: ).
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I did the comparisons at fueleconomy.gov
  • lmpracetechlmpracetech Member Posts: 24
    "Actually, it's not THAT much difference in money"

    Except for the fact that your driving in the comfort of a full size SUV?
    I think thats worth alot of value by itself. It is to me and I think if you drive more you save more...
  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    The difference between $785 and $558 is 40%. Pretty significant as far as I'm concerned. So when an auto manufacturer is deciding where to initially focus its hybrid efforts and it realizes that 40% more fuel will be saved by targeting the least fuel efficient vehicles it seems like the right decision.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Two prior customers, both Navy doctors, both Prius owners...carpool together to their base, alternating one vehicle or the other.
  • lmpracetechlmpracetech Member Posts: 24
    I think that gas savings would be more if:
    What if they took a Saturn Sky, Opel GT, or Pontiac Solstice (all the same platform, and would save them money) and put a hybrid motor in it?
    Something of a sports car layout in a hybrid or EV would be rad, I mean at least it wouldnt cost over $100K... And have some kind of design appeal, no offense to Prius owners but I think they look sick...
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    80 hp ICE generator, volt configuration

    Cool tpe !
    I will have to look that one up. I can convert my wife's Mazda Protege to EV using it, and race any Tesla's with it, zoom zoom...:)

    I am not familiar with this ICE generator. Which EV car presently uses it ?
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    From television and newspaper coverage of everyday folks, it seems that the universal answer to "What to do when gas is $4" is:

    Stay home, spend less.

    It's easy. We all have cable TV and internet. We don't have to go out to see a movie, and the public events survive without us. Our kids can just as well play in the back yard as a city park or sports complex. And avoiding the shopping malls saves both gas money, and discretionary money, which we now need to pay for higher utility and food costs, anyway.

    Our economy will decline, the stock market will suffer. But the cost of livng is so high now that we can no longer afford to worry about the bigger picture.
    .
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,044
    a couple days ago, I mentioned having to drive my '79 NYer up to PA for Spring Carlisle, when my Intrepid decided to die on me. To recap, I filled up the tank while I was up there, and the weather was horrible the whole way back. I was averaging 45-55 mph, occasionally getting up to 60. The tires on that car are a bit thin in the tread, so I didn't push it too hard, but the weather was so bad that EVERYBODY was going slow, so even at those speeds I wasn't holding anybody up. Even with acceleration I was very gentle, because it doesn't take much to make that car spin out in the rain. So the weather basically forced me to hypermile.

    Well, this morning I drove the car to work, and topped off at the local Shell. Anybody wanna guess on what kind of fuel economy I got on this mostly highway, 111.3 mile jaunt, driven like an old lady? The car has about 92K miles on it, 360-2bbl, an advertised base weight of 3850 lb, 2.45:1 axle, a cranky choke. Whoever guesses the closest wins a free ride around the block in it. :P

    Just to narrow down the range a bit, I drove my uncle's '03 Corolla on this same trip (but nicer weather) last year, and got 37.4 mpg. The New Yorker, umm, did somewhat worse. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What would Mazda's new slogan be if they converted all their vehicles to electric?

    "Zap! Zap! Zap!"
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    How big is the fuel tank?

    I figured it out for the '88 Park Ave:

    106 miles/3.6 gallons = 29.4 MPG.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I'm not saying the Tahoe hybrid is not a good idea at all. I just disagree with the one post that said it's "WAY more" savings when it's really not WAY more.

    It is MORE for sure, but not WAY more. $19 a month is not WAY more.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,044
    It's a 21 gallon fuel tank. Now, when I filled up in Highspire, it took 19.05 gallons. I had gone about 240 miles on that tank, but I already had about 130 miles on that tank before driving up on Friday nite. And that had been just about pure local driving.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Our economy will decline, the stock market will suffer. But the cost of livng is so high now that we can no longer afford to worry about the bigger picture.

    I suggest you and everyone else should look at history. Our country and many other countries have been through bad times, and economies and countries have rebounded. I'm sure people who lived in the Great ddepression, Europeans and Asians who were devastated by WWII, and even other poor economies of the 70's here in the U.S. were convinced life was going to be horrible from henceforth. The problems seemed insurmountable. Well guess what, the problems aren't.

    But you do need to accept that things change. Jobs and careers change, our transportation has changed, where and how we live. Maybe the problem is that too many people can't or just don't want to adapt and change, and whine about the world changing.

    Personally I think it would be good for our society to stop consuming so much, and maybe we could move away from the frivolous entertainment portions of the economy (sports, movies, TV, cable ...) , and actually have a work-force that makes or invents things. I'd say we we're a little messed-up as a society, when we can name people on American Idol or on the Boston Red Sox, and probably can't name 1 scientist who's doing research on alternate energies. Maybe our newspapers should have a Science section rather than a Sports section?

    To all: are you the person who is whining about the high cost of gas, want your comfy lifestyle, and are always looking for others to blame because they aren't doing enough to make the world better?
  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    I am not familiar with this ICE generator. Which EV car presently uses it ?

    As far as I know there are no cars being marketed that use this serial hybrid configuration where the ICE simply charges the battery pack. GM's Chevy Volt sounds like the first one being developed. From a technological perspective it's actually much simpler than the hybrid system that Toyota incorporates albeit not quite as fuel efficient. I suspect the main reason it hasn't been pursued is that it will put much more wear on the battery pack. As we know battery packs are expensive. With these new batteries coming out that supposedly last for several thousand charges this might change.
  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    What if they took a Saturn Sky, Opel GT, or Pontiac Solstice (all the same platform, and would save them money) and put a hybrid motor in it?


    Last year Toyota unveiled a hybrid supercar concept that might go into production in a few years. I don't know if that's still the case. So far the hybrids that have also offered performance, like the Lexus 450h and the discontinued Accord hybrid, still rely primarily on their ICE for the bulk of their power. So the mpg gain isn't all that remarkable. If you change the balance so that most or all of your propulsion is being provided by the electric motors you could significantly reduce fuel consumption without sacrificing performance. As I mentioned earlier, the main drawback is that this would require a much bigger battery pack which would probably wear out quicker.

    hybrid sportscar
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    I didn't say that the economy wouldn't recover. I certainly didn't compare today's situation to World War 2, or the Great Depression. I simply said the economy's suffering because of oil prices. The price of oil affects the price of everything in this country.

    If NOT wanting to have those prices dictated by foreign countries who display open hostility toward us is "whining," then that's okay. I just don't classify $3.50 gasoline as "change." I see it as extortion.

    I don't believe that I have a personal obligation to change my life just because oil producers, refiners, and traders work in collusion to inflate the price of that commodity. I believe that part of the reason I pay taxes is to fund government agencies that keep markets open and fair, and prosecute this type of collusion. Unfortunately, I don't see my tax dollars at work.

    But there I go whining again.

    We can all agree that "it would be good for our society to stop consuming so much." But that doesn't mean that we collectively want to surrender our freedom of personal choice to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, and Nigeria.

    Those countries are the poster children of "messed-up" societies.
    .
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you exclude the individuals, developers, lenders who were merely gambling on the housing market then the situation doesn't look so grim or deserving of all that much sympathy.

    That is exactly as I see the home mortgage problem. I have 2 friends and one family member that are losing their homes. All 3 tried to buy more than they could afford on adjustable rate mortgages. The house I just bought at $100k less than the owner paid the year before was a speculator. He did not want to destroy his credit so he took the hit. Places like Detroit have been bleeding for 20 years or more.

    If the price of gas makes you lose your home you were not following good economic principles when you bought the home.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    One of the few bright spots this week is for shareholders of oil companies BP and Shell, whose first-quarter profits rose 63 percent and 25 percent, respectively. But don't worry; more "good news" for shareholders is ahead. ExxonMobil will report its earnings tomorrow.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Except for the fact that your driving in the comfort of a full size SUV?

    Welcome to the club. I sometime get lonely on these SUV bashing threads.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    I don't bash SUVs, even though I don't find most of them comfortable, in some part due to their size and my driving style. My problem is with vehicle use, for resources consumed. It annoys and amuses me when I see folks driving full size pickups with a pristine bed, it amuses me when I see someone driving a Hummer (let's say) that has never spent 15 seconds off road. BTW, it also annoys when I see a poorly driven sports car.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    So according to CNN, oil prices are in some decline, not huge, but a couple of bucks....

    So help me here.... oil prices (for FUTURE purchases) increase, and prices on products like heating oil and gasoline immediately increase, even though that oil was bought a while ago. Prices decline a bit, and the best we can hope for in the short term is a pause in the increases - any decline seems to lag.

    Any idea why?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I believe that part of the reason I pay taxes is to fund government agencies that keep markets open and fair, and prosecute this type of collusion. Unfortunately, I don't see my tax dollars at work.

    If that is the way you feel. You can set it squarely on the 110th Congress elected in 2006. All throughout that campaign they were saying that we need changes. Well that is what we got. Higher gas prices, higher food prices and failed mortgages. Could be why this Congress are the lowest rated in the history of the country.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    I sent each of my highly paid, expensively-supported congresspeople an email asking what they have done and what they are doing to help these major problems.

    I haven't gotten a response so far from Mike Turner, Sherrod Brown, and George Voinovich.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I never said you were whining, that was addressed "To all" and stated "If you", so please don't read into that as a personal attack.
    What your post did was make me think of many prior posts where I get the impression everyone wants "someone" to do something - sort of like being served.

    I did feel though your post was giving the impression that we were all going to have to suffer, and that there was no solution. My post was stating that despite the hard-times we so far historically have come thru them, and have a better lifestyle materially then before. That is why I mention the historical events; I never said you compared them; I'm asking you to consider how people must have felt during those times.

    Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, and Nigeria.
    Those countries are the poster children of "messed-up" societies.


    Whether your neighbors are thieves, does not change the fact that you being a thief is wrong. I'm sure these countries might have a problem with our government having a "heavy-hand".
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    "I'm sure these countries might have a problem with our government having a "heavy-hand". "

    Yes, and there's also the minor issue - It's their oil, not ours! Just because we (desparately) need it is not a reason to expect their unquestioning cooperation. And invading doesn't work so well, either - latest news from Iraq is that 70 percent of their current oil infrastructure is unused because of attacks and the lack of foreign investment. Not good (for us, or them).
  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    oil prices (for FUTURE purchases) increase, and prices on products like heating oil and gasoline immediately increase, even though that oil was bought a while ago

    That's not always the case. This last run-up in gasoline prices definitely lagged behind the run-up in oil prices.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    The problems were alive long before 2006.

    The post 9-11 recovery is a trick, smoke and mirrors, created on debt and easy credit.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Going by the issues of debt and easy credit, the problems started around the time of the Carter presidency and were only masked by Reagan and everyone since him.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    And even if the government rules did allow "easy credit", the government can not force the banks and other financial institutions to loosen their own standards. Banks are still free to reject loans on their own criteria as long as they do so without bias.

    I was at my real-estate lawyer's the other day, and I was mentioning how the price of the property I was buying dropped. He said yes he had seen signs of a problem building, as families with a combined takehome income of $3,000/month were signing on to $1,900/month mortgages. Not very smart. So yes when gas, heating oil, and food go up like they have these people are sunk.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Yes, and there's also the minor issue - It's their oil, not ours! Just because we (desparately) need it is not a reason to expect their unquestioning cooperation.

    Yes and if you lived in a country that was experiencing food shortages (or just couldn't afford the increases), you could substitute the word "food" for "oil" and people could make the same arguments.
    We could then rant about how the U.S. farmers or traders are making exorbitant profits on our grain and corn, while people are starving and can't afford food. What's the U.S. government position - "we understand you're need for food, but we're converting it to ethanol, to lower our demand for oil and stretch the gasoline supply. We need to placate our population so they have gas to go to the mall."

    It is OUR food right? we can eat it all or convert it right? we don't have to sell any of it?

    Whether it happens or not, I think you should be making plans on how to change your lifestyle for $5/gal gas. It's prudent. You should have a plan on how to increase your income, or decrease your other expenses.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yikes! No room for error. A unexpected car repair would sink that family!

    Banks should've been a lot tougher all along. Their debt-to-income ratio should've already disqualified them for such an extravagant mortgage. I take home significantly more than $3,000 and my mortgage payment doesn't even crack the $1,000 barrier.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >how to increase your income, or decrease your other expenses.

    Sounds like what the government should have been doing to keep the dollar more valuable to avoid increasing the cost of gasoline as much.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I'm sure the fact that our trade deficit being many billions of $ month after month, does not help what the government can do. If you send your $ overseas, and other nations start getting incomes closer to ours, the $ loses value relative to those currencies.

    Where was your car made? Where's your oil come from? Where was your computer and TV and clothes made? Meanwhile we have plenty of restaurant jobs, technical people working at Radio Shack, a small manufatcuring segment, and a great sports and entertainment economy (which we funnel considerable money into to make us forget for a while?).

    We all need to trade, to keep the global economy going, but I can't emphasize enough that we need to be smart as a nation, and individuals need to act smartly, and not expect the government to bail them out for stupid or selfish decisions.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    From US News:

    Last week, we told you that a glut of SUVs on used car lots had led to low prices, making this a great time to buy a recent used sport utility or truck, if you have the need. Throughout the weekend, media reports have focused on the other side of that coin.

    If you own an SUV, it's probably losing value.

    Gas prices rising steadily toward $4 a gallon have driven million of consumers to buy smaller cars this year. When they buy that small or midsize sedan, a tremendous number have used an SUV as a trade-in -- leading to a glut of SUVs sitting on used car dealer lots this spring.

    The AP explains, "Used SUV sales in March were down 14 percent nationally compared to last year, according to data compiled by CNW Marketing Research. That follows drops in used SUV sales of more than 8 percent for the first two months of the year, compared to the same months in 2007." The "has sent used SUV prices plummeting, giving owners a shock when they try to trade theirs in and find out how little they can get."

    The Orlando Sentinel says "Used-car dealers don't want the big vehicles on their lots anymore because hardly anyone is buying them. Some won't take them at any price."

    Guy Lance, sales manager at Admiral Nissan in Pleasantville, New Jersey, told the Press of Atlantic City that he increasingly sees "people trying to trade in SUVs that are less than a year old." Lance added, "Normally, people don't trade out that quickly," but, "Let's admit it, when you go to a gas station and say, 'Just put $90 in my truck,' that's a little hard to swallow."

    Dave Eller, general sales manager of Hurley Chrysler Jeep in DeLand Florida, told that state's News-Journal that "some large vehicles are dropping thousands of dollars in value each month. … Anything diesel has dropped $5,000 in the past five months," he added.

    Used car dealers facing lots filled with unwanted SUVs are struggling to figure out how to unload them. Many may be going overseas. Sales manager Al Johnson of AutoNation's Maroone Nissan in Pembroke, Florida told the AP that "the dealership had been exporting about one car a month" in recent years, but "this year they average roughly 10."
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    I am so glad i found a buyer for mine, and losing 5K was a no braiiner rather
    than being stuck with it, crapola.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    When Demand is roaring, the price is soaring. When cost of product lowers and Demand is roaring, expect more profits for the owner/shareholders.

    I don't care what the cost of production is when the high demand is there. If you don't want my product, don't buy it. If you can't get along without it, make sacrifices in other areas to buy it.

    Basically, I, the oil industry don't care. Harsh? Hardball business that is all. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    While listening to the radio just before I left Hawaii, they were saying that tourism 1st quarter was up 18% over last year. I am thinking people are flying to Hawaii rather than taking a driving vacation. Or they are going to Hawaii rather than the EU where the dollar is in the toilet. Gas in Hilo was virtually the same as here in San Diego. Diesel was about 20 cents cheaper than the one station I passed this morning.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    While listening to the radio just before I left Hawaii, they were saying that tourism 1st quarter was up 18% over last year.

    Maybe it's tourist from the EU. We've taken 4 trips since last summer and one thing that stood out was the number of European tourists.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I am not familiar with this ICE generator. Which EV car presently uses it ?

    As far as I know only these types are currently in production.

    image

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    That'll take a HECK of a battery pack :surprise:
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I am not sure that it has a battery pack, just that the engine generates electricity that goes directly to powering the train.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    Not sure if it is going to be sold to the U.S. but Audi is speeding up its downsizing programm and plans to produce a MINI-competitor.

    http://www.autobild.de/artikel/auto-bild-vorschau-audi-a1_671687.html

    Most engines to be turbocharged, with very promising FE perspectives.
    1,2-l-TFSI, 85 PS/165 Nm • 1,4-l-TFSI, 122 PS/200 Nm • 1,4-l-TSI, 170 PS/250 Nm • 1,6-l-TDI, 75 PS/195 Nm • 1,6-l-TDI, 90 PS/230 Nm • 1,6-l-TDI, 105 PS/250 Nm.
    (1 think 1lb/f = 1.4Nm)

    The car will be very different from the A2 which was a sales failure, and will emphasize driving pleasure as well as FE. Mild Hybrid technologies are being considered. The following FE technologies will be used :
    Electric power steering • ater and oil pump working on demand• Auto Start-Stop • brake energy recycling • tires with low rolling resistance • pre-heating module for the transmission chain (to lower friction) • bigger buffer battery.

    Those technologies are expected to bring the C02 emissions and corresponding fuel consumption of the smaller engines below 120 g/km (which is basically 15% more than those of a Prius for reference)

    All the powertrains will be available with a Manual 6 -SPD or the 7 SPD DSG dual clutch box.

    All the engines will be EURO5 Compliant, so I could speculate that the next step of putting the diesel engine in US standard compliance is still open.

    Price wise, we should expect those to compete with the BMW MINI and stay in premium zone. The strong Euro won't anyway make any cheaper policy possible.

    Nothing is mentioned about the weight. I am afraid it will be heavier than a Honda FIT.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    Oh, yeah, I was joking. The locomotives do use the elecric motors as generators to slow down on downhill runs, but instead of charging batteries, the generated current is run through huge resistive heater arrays, cooled through fans that blow air out the top of the locomotive. Too steep, they have to use the brakes.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    cool news that Audi is building a mini of their own. Can't wait to see it! Something that rolls off of TT lines in miniature sounds compelling, indeed.

    Just a note on the mortgage mess and signing on for houses that exceed our ability to pay. Wow, this floors me, for more than one reason. For one thing, banks are in effect "pushing" these people to sign on the dotted line. Are they thoroughly checking people's debt to income ratios? Doubt they are really doing this on an honest basis.

    OTOH-people need to be the ultimate watchdogs of their own finances. I know that we go through financial troubles that are out of our control, like layoffs. But when it comes to forecasting our ability to pay, having around $3,000 take home pay to pay a monthly mortgage of $1,900 is nuts. I would never sign on to take that kind of a payment on when I am taking home $3,000, would you? I guess I need to preface that with a "be careful before you answer that question!" No wonder so many people are in trouble. I know times can get tough and money can get tight, but, to buy a house with a payment like that when you have an income of $3,000 take-home a month, that's criminal. The mortgage company should be charged with a crime in connection with the signing parties ensuing foreclosure.

    I know this has been in the news for a long time now, but when you hear some real-life numbers that are literally crunching and not properly merging for people it's umm...scary. :sick:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What are others doing as a result of $4 gasoline?

    * Slower traffic
    * Lighter traffic
    * Fewer full-size SUVs
    * Empty malls
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    Amazingly here in Kewanee I have not seen any changes at all.Just same old traffic etc. I would hope that the car dealers are selling less trucks and SUVs.
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    * Slower traffic
    * Lighter traffic
    * Fewer full-size SUVs
    * Empty malls


    Stay home, spend less.
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.