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But the point is this is typical of what other people in the world will drive. And people do apparently get by with these vehicles.
Lightweight and small engines will give you high mpg when mixed with good aerodynamics and being geared for economy. Are we ready to give up all the systems on autos and get back to the basics? No, not now? At what point ($/gal)?
Floridians like Californians don't allow drilling due to environmental concerns. But if we did drill there it wouldn't make a dent in the price of gas - maybe a small dent in our dependence on foreign oil but that's all.
You can't drill your way out of the energy crisis. You have to re-invent your way of living and creating energy. The higher the price per gallon, the sooner we will adopt new forms of energy - so I see the bright side of high energy prices.
Why not?
If you increase domestic production 10X...or 100x why not.
Not to suggest that there is that much reserve...but who really knows how much oil is there until we start drilling--everywhere (might be an eye sore though
There are 'routine' press releases about reserves doubling...and the know reserves are huge. I think it's a case of 'De Beers' syndrome...restrict supply...
Let it flow...
Not sure about that, people still tailgated Pintos.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yeah but it takes a hell of a lot of effort to make it go boom
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have no idea what it means to be communist these days. There are billionaires in China.
Well, for what it's worth, NYC is still congested, and I did a day trip up to Boston last week; traffic was normal for a Friday. Speeds did not seem slower (or faster). I think some of the possible change in behavior might be regional, and I am not clear as to whether so much is due to gas prices as to the economic scene in general - A lot of the companies I consult with are reducing business travel in general, so there are fewer rentals etc.
On another note, I've been seeing stuff on the cost of fuel in other parts of the world, and, believe it or not, we are still pretty cheap, especially as percent of income....
Well said. I couldn't agree more.
I would say that is a good bet. One George S. with his monstrous hedge fund Quantum nearly bankrupted Indonesia. He speculates on weak currencies. What better way than the safety of oil futures traded with US dollars.
"Rep. Alcee L. Hastings (D-Fla.), who said he chose an Infiniti M45 because it is suited for the high speeds on Interstate 95, which runs through his district, said that safety is his top concern. "If you don't have some giddyup, you're in a lot of trouble," he said."
What a bunch of cow pies. I've driven a rental Camry on 95 while on vacation (4 of us plus luggage). The 4 banger was just fine. If he wants some giddyup we have plenty of horses in ND that would fit the bill.
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/environment/la-na-cars1-2008may01,1,6694016.- story
I once was pushed into a Pinto. It didn't go boom. The battery fell out and the exhaust system disconnected at the header, but no boom, not even a pop or a fizzle. My little car on the other hand was about 6 inches shorter in the front and rear after the accident. :sick:
Please change the title of this forum to:
"What will you eat when gas price rises above $5 a gallon?"
Thanks.
My personal opinion is that commodity traders probably have driven up the price of oil. But not to the extent that some people believe. IMO, maybe 10%. If I'm right that's the difference between gas being $3.60/gallon and gas being $3.25/gallon. Gas would still be expensive. There's no boogeyman keeping us from cheap gas.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Do the math. Our proved reserves would only last us about 3 years if we were forced to use them. Consider them our national IRA. It's something we have in reserve in case of a horrible emergency.
We must continue to be very very good neighbors to our friends to the North though. with Mexico dropping off the oil map for quite some time Canada is critical for us.
"In the USA, the conservative rule is to classify as proven only the reserves that are being produced[cn]..." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves)
Experts say as much as 60 billion barrels of oil may lie in the deep waters of the Gulf
North Dakota 4.3B barrels -- is 25 times higher than the last time the USGS surveyed the area, in 1995.
It only adds up if you end up using 'fuzzy' math.
Without even looking very hard we seem to keep finding new reserves; and old ones keep getting re-estimated -- usually doubling in size.
My point was if we wanted it really bad...we could find it without turning to international oil mobsters.
Of course...there is the theory that oil is not a product of fossils and prehistoric forests but rather the bio-product of a continuing biochemical reaction below the earth's surface that is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the earth's rotation
Go down to the beach with a pail and shovel...problem solved.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Boy, where do you live? Here in the northeast as soon as the snow melted I saw a huge increase in vehicle volume. Huge SUV's everywhere. And with gas tickling $4 they drive like the police are after them.
Yesterday I was passed by a big Tahoe who blasted by me at full throttle. Where was he going so fast? To the next red light a few hundred feet down the road.
It just ticks me off that my gas costs more because these idiots are trying to set the record for worst mileage ever.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Almost all in my area don't (upstate NY). We country folks tend to be an honest bunch. I usually won't use a station that makes you pre-pay.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You would be doing a lot of walking around here as I don't know of any that don't.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You would be doing a lot of walking around here as I don't know of any that don't.
For me it depends on state - In NJ, they pump for you, AND it costs less than in NY! In NY (NYC) most prepay, a few don't, and I usually pay at the pump with a card. At the stations that I go to regularly, they know me, so they turn on the pump as a courtesy, and I pay after.
On nasty days all of a sudden the law doesn't seem as silly to me...
I would agree with the 10% plus or minus a few percent. This article, on the other hand, suggests it could be 60%.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8878
What the author does not seem to understand is that the cost to drill for new oil is $69 offshore (U.S.). If you reduce that $115 dollar a barrel oil by 60% you are looking at $46 a barrel. The new offshore projects would be canceled and supply would begin to dry up. Oil sands and ethanol production will also hit a wall fairly quickly. The fundamentals are there for $90 oil. Anything less and supply would dry up in a few months.
Can you imagine how quickly demand would ramp up if oil dropped to $46 a barrel! I would be paying about $1.5 to $2 a gallon instead of $3.70. Hybrid and small car sales would decline with those type of prices.
I would also wager that KSA and other OPEC countries would quickly cut production at $46 a barrel. They need the money to support their growth, which I might add, is what the U.S. did last century. The UAE needs $50 to $60 billion a year to keep their projects going. Take a look at massive development going on at: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=8bb97bb9deabf7f99e8953e588d96495&- t=534013&page=334
Figure on average people pump between 10 and 20 gallons per visit. So let's take 15 as a reasonable number. On that 15 gallons, they make $1.50. They don't get only one customer per day; I've seen estimates between 200 and 500, so let's take 375. 375 x $1.50 = $562.50 per day profit on sale of gasoline. Still sound unprofitable?
Hit by high prices and fees, some gas station owners stop selling fuel (guy clears 5 cents a gallon after the VISA/MC charges)
Gas-station owners' profits hinge on thirsty customers (Retailers last year earned an average of 2 to 3 cents per gallon before taxes)
Local gas station skips deliveries because profit margin has evaporated (Profits typically range from 8 to 10 cents a gallon,)
Even with a good profit margin, if people start driving less, there's going to be less money in the till at the end of the week.
The leases on Prudhoe Bay Alaska estimated 9 billion barrels. The oil started flowing in 1977. By 1988 it was averaging a little over 2 million barrels per day. As of 2000 13 billion barrels were sent through that line. They are still getting oil at a much lower rate. Though they now use the pipeline for oil being produced out of the old National Petroleum Reserve. The conservative estimates in ANWR is 16 billion barrels. It is exactly the same terrain and wildlife as Prudhoe Bay. It is mind boggling to those of us that spent decades in the Arctic why we have closed off that little chunk of land to oil production. Most of the people opposed to drilling in ANWR have never set foot on it. If we are saving it for future generations that is fine. Just don't say we are running out when it is not true. $100+ oil has been a real boost to Alaska. I thank you and so do the folks still living up there. It insures my retirement checks from the Union will not bounce.
I think you hear wrong, 10 cents per gallon before operating costs might be more correct, but even then it will be high. But presuming 10 cents gross profit and $3.75/gallon gas prices that means 2.67% gross profit. Gross profit on items in a quickie mart type setting averages out to be around 30%.
IIRC gross profit on gas is usually runs around 8 cents per gallon. Most gas stations would go under selling just gas.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think you are right. I wonder what impact all the CC transactions at the pump has done to mini market profits. I have not been inside a station in over a year. I use my Shell card to get their 5% off gas or AMEX at Costco to get 3% off their already low price. ARCO does not accept CC cards in CA. Only ATM with a surcharge. Several gas stations charge 10 cents more per gallon for using a CC. I have never bought gas in one of those places. Yet they seem to have customers. It is a strange business.
I am surprised they are allowed to do that, your typical merchant agreement forbids that practice.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
you mean Exon?
the lobbying powers that represent Exon have us paying subsidies to a company making more profit than any company in history. Who are the mobsters?
My advice is to consume less. The premise that we can spend our way out of a recession (consume more) is where the solution is the problem.
It was good to see WalMart knocked out of the top 10. What is interesting is only two oil companies made it into the top 10. 3 banks are in there one of which is wanting to be bailed out of the mortgage mess they created. How did United Airlines end up number 2 behind Exxon?
A point of clarification, Exxon Mobil has made some record profits, but their numbers are not out of line with other companies.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/?postversion=2008042912
http://www.techvat.com/5-tech-companies-more-profitable-than-exxon-mobil.html
http://www.seic.com/advisors/documents/Big_Bad_Oil.pdf
It is easy to get mad or emotional about $4 a gallon gasoline. I would hope that people would do a little more research into how the system works and how things are changing before we start demonizing (sp?) people or bringing out the latest conspiracy theory. Neither the oil companies nor the Arabs are making the U.S. consume 25% of the world's energy when our population is only 5%. And the last time I checked, I can still go out to buy the biggest, baddest, gas guzzling, Super Duper Utility Vehicle on the planet. I hear there are a few Ford Valdez SUVs on the lot as of late. :shades:
"...We have met the enemy... and he is us" Pogo
As far as raw numbers go , even 8 cents profit per gallon is a nice daily take, when you multiply it by 5000 gallons per day. I'd certainly take $400 a day, wouldn't you? That's a monthly gross of $12,000, and a yearly of $144,000. Operating costs are not going to make enough of a dent to reduce that to a less delicious number.
Who do I talk to about opening a gas station? :shades:
Gas Stations Profit from More Than Just Gas
I remember when you'd go inside the station for a drink from the water fountain and maybe pick up a free map.
I sure would not want to try and run a business on $400 per day. I have a friend with a shave ice stand built into a trailer. Cost him $15k turnkey operation. Works the flea market 2 days a week. Grossed $85k in one year. I would bet one of those new electronic gas pumps with the CC control is about $100k. If it was a good deal all those old mom n pop stations would still be in business. Most were run out by the EPA. Even some stations less than 10 years old near me are gone. Tough business to make a living.
Just to keep things in perspective. Both coke and Pepsi made twice what Exxon did last year as return on investment. Microsoft made 4 times as much as Exxon.
Numbers are questionable, however if i assume that they are correct, it only works if there are no employees to pay - so I have a couple of pumps, and I am hustling them all day, everyday, myself. After taxes that $144K becomes 100 or so, and a vacation is an unpaid luxury. Not so great, and I know that the stations near me make less than that.
I just empty the quart baggie that I stash my toothpaste in once I get past security and then go fill it up from a water fountain. Has a nice minty flavor from the Ultrabrite. Borrow a straw from the fast food joint and you're set.
Just kidding, but it may come to that....
link and the baggie bottle holder
That is a bit of an exaggeration.
Gas Station Data from the Census folks. Notice that the number of stations fell about 5,500 from 97 to 02. The number with convenience stores rose over 10,000 in the same five years. That would suggest that the Mom & Pop stores were doomed anyway. EPA regulations were a factor, but other changes in the industry also contributed to the change.
....................................................................2002......19- 97
Gasoline stations with convenience stores......93,691 81,684
Other gasoline stations.................................27,755 45,205
http://www.census.gov/econ/census02/data/comparative/USCS_44.HTM#N447
Industry Ratios 2002 1997
Total sales (Mil $) 249,141 198,166
Sales per establishment ($000) 2,051 1,562
Sales per employee ($) 268,821 214,916
Sales per $ of payroll ($) 18 17
Annual payroll per employee ($) 14,783 12,453
Employees per establishment 7.6 7.3
Sales per capita ($) 864 726
Establishments per million residents 421 (2375 people per station) 465 (2150)
Total Sales
2002 1997
Sales (Mil $) 249,141 198,166
Payroll (Mil $) 13,701 11,482
Employees 926,792 922,062
Establishments 121,446 126,889
http://quarterhorse.dsd.census.gov/TheDataWeb_HotReport/servlet/HotReportEngineS- - ervlet?emailname=bh@boc&filename=sal1.hrml&20071127090603.Var.NAICS2002=447&forw- - ard=20071127090603.Var.NAICS2002
Anyone out there have historical gas station numbers for the last 50 years or so?
***
about the absurdity of hydrogen-fuel-cell: there is no free hydrogen on this planet. and it' costs energy to free it or "charge" the fuel-cell for use. so please let's stop calling hydrogen a fuel, unless we are talking nuclear fusion? maybe think of hydrogen-fuel-cell as the best battery technology that will ever be, except for that whole Hindenburg aspect and the minimum $1Million cost per vehicle.
***
a malfunctioning/mismatched gas cap can cause gas on garage floor when you fill the tank on a 100F day and then park in hot garage with full tank of 53F gas. vapor-recovery system requires proper/pressurized cap. cap not tight -> gas on floor when it warms and expands..
While somewhat true it is a small return for a large investment. Look at it more this way, I stop in on a trip and fill my tank. I also walk in with the friend I am with and we each buy a bottle of Coke and a bag of chips. The store made more money on the coke and chips than they did with the tank full of gas with a much cheaper investment.
Remember, these guys sell thousands of gallons PER DAY. And gas pump overhead only consists of the pump itself and storage tanks (by now a sunk cost, which basically means it's been paid for already),
Sorry most likey paid for with borrowed funds and needs to be repaid.
Operating costs are not going to make enough of a dent to reduce that to a less delicious number.
The reality of the situation is that operating costs are going to be more than that. You might hit $400 a day simply in wages and benefits. That doesn't include rent, insurance, utilities and a few other expenses.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Fuel is any material that is burnt or altered in order to obtain energy.[1] Fuel releases its energy either through a chemical reaction means, such as combustion, or nuclear means, such as nuclear fission or nuclear fusion. An important property of a useful fuel is that its energy can be stored to be released only when needed, and that the release is controlled in such a way that the energy can be harnessed to produce work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel
Hydrogen meets the definition of a fuel. I would not count the technology out just yet. It may not be ready for a few decades but it may be an important option down the road.
"there is no free hydrogen on this planet"
True, but neither is oil, ethanol or cow pies.