Let's say a guy or works at a Wal~Mart in a rural area 20 miles away. He has an old hoopty that makes roughly 20 MPG. Forget about him buying a fuel-efficient car, this is an old Plymouth Satellite he inherited from his deceased grandmother. He can't afford a new car or a reliable used one. He needs one gallon of gas to get to work and one to get home. Gas is $4.00 for regular. He works forty hours a week, (not likely for Wal~Mart, but we'll say he does for simplicity). He needs a dollar an hour raise just to cover the cost of gas.
Hate to say it, but for someone in a situation like that, if money is already tight, they're going to be hurting big-time. For something like an old Satellite to get 20 mpg, that would have to be almost pure highway driving...not to mention a very well-tuned, low power engine like a slant six or 318. Well, at 20 mpg, the guy is using 10 gallons per week just for work. Or, 40 bucks per week. If he got into something that doubled his fuel economy, to 40 mpg, it would only save him 20 bucks per week. Or roughly $80-90 per month. Heck, just the car insurance difference, going from a liability-only hoopty to a full-coverage economy car, could eat up most of that savings.
In a situation like this, I'd say the guy would either have to start looking for an extra job, see if he can pick up some overtime...ANYTHING that could bring in more money. Or start seeing if there's some kind of fat that can be trimmed, like satellite tv, cell phone, a gym membership, etc. Unfortunately though, for many people, there's no fat to trim.
Sadly though, a person in this sort of situation is going to be screwed, no matter what. Even if somehow they could get into a car that used half the gas with no extra financial burden (say some eccentric old fool offered to give him a Civic or similar car, and pay the difference on the insurance), I don't think a person like this would be much better off. If your lifestyle is at the point where $80-90 per month is the difference between a roof over your head and the street, your situation is pretty dire. Increasing utility bills, food bills, rent, etc, or some unforeseen emergency could wipe out that $80-90 per month savings in the blink of an eye.
>"It's a scam" >"Ignores basic physics and chemistry" >I didn't think so, just a conditioned reaction to anything not understood or contrary to your limited knowledge ?
Maybe you can discuss your background and degrees in chemistry and physics that support your opinion that it's not a scam?
In a situation like this, I'd say the guy would either have to start looking for an extra job, see if he can pick up some overtime.
Work!! eek!! It is hard enough to get todays youth to work a full time job. Now you want them to work an extra job? When I was growing up, my step dad worked two jobs and went to college when we lived in Portland, Oregon. He did not want my mom to work. That was the work ethic in the 1950s. I would say the person that cannot afford the gas for a car, is going to have to make some adjustments. Get rid of the cell phone and TV cable. Get a bicycle and quit buying processed junk food.
I was amazed at Von's last night. Two young guys in the line ahead of us, buying food. They were digging in their pockets for the money to pay. Everything they bought was processed JUNK FOOD. Absolute crap from Cocoa Puffs to frozen pizza. I have a hard time losing sleep over losers like that.
Every website touting the wonders of H2O for cars, is one of the MLM group. I have not seen a single independent laboratory or news agency that gave it ANY credibility. If it looks like a scam, smells like a scam, it probably is a scam. At the very least it is a Ponzi scheme started by an EX-CON that is banned from doing business in several states.
Americans should be celebrating rather than shuddering over the arrival of $4-a-gallon gasoline. We lived on cheap gas too long, failed to innovate and now face the consequences of competing for a finite resource amid fast-expanding global demand. A further price rise as in Europe to $8 a gallon -- or $200 and more to fill a large SUV's tank -- would be a catalyst for economic, political and social change of profound national and global impact. We could face an economic squeeze, but it would be the pain before the gain. The U.S. economy absorbed a tripling in gas prices in the last six years without falling into recession, at least through March. Ravenous demand from China and India could see prices further double in the next few years -- and jumpstart the overdue process of weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Consider the world of good that would come of pricing crude oil and gasoline at levels that would strain our finances as much as they're straining international relations and the planet's long-term health:
1. RIP for the internal-combustion engine They may contain computer chips, but the power source for today's cars is little different than that which drove the first Model T 100 years ago. That we're still harnessed to this antiquated technology is testament to Big Oil's influence in Washington and success in squelching advances in fuel efficiency and alternative energy. Given our achievement in getting a giant mainframe's computing power into a handheld device in just a few decades, we should be able to do likewise with these dirty, little rolling power plants that served us well but are overdue for the scrap heap of history. 2. Economic stimulus Necessity being the mother of invention, $8 gas would trigger all manner of investment sure to lead to groundbreaking advances. Job creation wouldn't be limited to research labs; it would rapidly spill over into lucrative manufacturing jobs that could help restore America's industrial base and make us a world leader in a critical realm. The most groundbreaking discoveries might still be 25 or more years off, but we won't see massive public and corporate funding of research initiatives until escalating oil costs threaten our national security and global stability -- a time that's fast approaching. 3. Wither the Middle East's clout This region that's contributed little to modern civilization exercises inordinate sway over the world because of its one significant contribution -- crude extraction. Aside from ensuring Israel's security, the U.S. would have virtually no strategic or business interest in this volatile, desolate region were it not for oil -- and its radical element wouldn't be able to demonize us as the exploiters of its people. In the near term, breaking our dependence on Middle Eastern oil may well require the acceptance of drilling in the Alaskan wilderness -- with the understanding that costly environmental protections could easily be built into the price of $8 gas. 4. Deflating oil potentates On a similar note, Venezuela's Hugo Chavez and Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad recently gained a platform on the world stage because of their nations' sudden oil wealth. Without it, they would face the difficult task of building fair and just economies and societies on some other basis. How far would their message resonate -- and how long would they even stay in power -- if they were unable to buy off the temporary allegiance of their people with vast oil revenues?
Every website touting the wonders of H2O for cars, is one of the MLM group. I have not seen a single independent laboratory or news agency that gave it ANY credibility. If it looks like a scam, smells like a scam, it probably is a scam. At the very least it is a Ponzi scheme started by an EX-CON that is banned from doing business in several states.
NO kidding. I think "future guy" has something to gain personally by pushing this product.
Maybe someone should submit it to Myth Busters so they can test is. I'm not going to buy something like that based on a hope and a prayer. I want to see concrete non biased test results.
With gasoline at some stations at $3.999 and others $3.859, the price rise hasn't been at most stations, just the ones controlled by Speedway/Marathon.
As for the water turned into gasoline myth, I was listening to a national car talk show from Detroit WJR 760 this morning and they still advertise the tornado fan blade unit that fits inside your air intake. I'm still trying to figure out how a fan blade adding air resistance to the intake of my 3800 Series II is going to affect the air intake into the cylinders where the fuel is sprayed in by injectors. The air travels into the plenum volume and then is sucked through air tubes that are about 8 inches long that arch over the top of the air plenum dome to take the air to the cyllinders (something related to tuning the air pressure pulses for better operation.
I consider the tornado in the same category of transfer devices as the gas from water devices. They transfer money from the sucker's pocket to the sellers' pockets. Everytime there's a rise in prices of fuel, these gimmicks come out of the woodwork.
Work!! eek!! It is hard enough to get todays youth to work a full time job. Now you want them to work an extra job? When I was growing up, my step dad worked two jobs and went to college when we lived in Portland, Oregon. He did not want my mom to work. That was the work ethic in the 1950s.
Well, I'm thinking more in terms of some poor working stiff who's the head of household, and not some college kid that has Mommy and Daddy to pick up the tab. When you're out on your own, you do what it takes to keep a roof over your head. Both of my grandmothers worked...in fact, the one who's still alive worked up until she was 70. Her mother even worked, almost up till the day she died. She worked a concessions stand at a local movie theater. That was a long time ago though, as she died in 1969. I dunno if there are too many seniors manning the concession stands these days. They probably wouldn't mingle too well with the teens you usually see there.
When I ran into financial problems back in the 90's, I already had a part time job but it wasn't cutting it. So I went out and got a better part time job. Also ended up having to move in with my grandmother for a couple years and rent the condo out, and when I could afford to move back in, I took in roommates. You do what it takes.
I'm in a house now, and still have roommates. I could probably afford to not have them by this point, but the extra money's nice. And they don't get on my nerves. Usually. :P
I was amazed at Von's last night. Two young guys in the line ahead of us, buying food. They were digging in their pockets for the money to pay. Everything they bought was processed JUNK FOOD. Absolute crap from Cocoa Puffs to frozen pizza. I have a hard time losing sleep over losers like that.
But again, do you think these young guys were parents pulling down a 40 hour per week job at WalMart, trying to keep their families afloat? Or were they college kids, who haven't necessarily gotten a dose of the real world yet?
aval: Any thoughts as to why premium in NH is so much higher than regular when compared to other states?
me: That might be a typo on their part. I haven't seen that thru most areas thru the years. The difference is $0.20 most stations. I do use 93 octane so I know. And I'l be glad when they get the ethanol out of the gas, and it seems we might be headed that way.
andre: This kind of attitude makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about big business...NOT.
me: if that's really true, it's too bad. But the franchisee whether it be with a Mc'D's a gas station, or whatever should not become a franchisee if the terms aren't fair. Walk-away!! I certainly wouldn't sign an agreement where the rent isn't spelled out long-term or has a low maximum increase, or any of those other terms. A good lawyer would have also advised her against these things.
I would have to say the same thing goes for independent truck drivers. You have to be a smart and good negotiator. Don't get into deals where you can't recover your diesel costs and make a living. The thing with the independents though is that some truckers are desperate, taking the business, and thus ruining the negotiating power of all them.
That's a good point about roommates and maybe even carmates. While I'd advise people not to plan on working at a Walmart-type job all their lives - to get some other plans together; but if you are:
You might want to get together with 3 other coworkers in that place and rent a 4-bedroom house.
I see the Walmart and McD jobs as being for teens, college students, retirees, and for a few months between jobs for adults. If you think you can work 1-job like that and afford a house, car, and family ... that's dreaming. You better get 2 more part-time jobs and some roommates. Better yet - get a skill or open a business.
Like certain parts of the anatomy , everyone has an opinion .
It's natural and prudent to be a skeptic , but skepticism should encourage curiosity and the seeking of truth else you be nothing more than a common , useless critic . One doesn't have to be an Einstein to realize that if something " WORKS " it " WORKS " !
excellent article you provided there. Hard to disagree with those points the writer made. Higher ghastly prices should sway the inventive powers to create good and viable alternative energies that the masses can tap in to.
To me the answer to ICE's is electrical propulsion. Heck, if battery production gets smarter, like China's BYD should be able to pull off, and they can make them so they stay intact and don't regenerate too quickly, we can make this pup work. That is what has my rapt attention, car battery production.
Here in Cochise County, the former home of Geronimo and Chief Cochise, the winds blow a lot of the time. Wind-generated electricity is being discussed. Our energy rates are affordable right now and the growth in Cochise County is not head over heels(we're far enough away from Tucson, 80 miles away, so workers don't relocate here that work in Tucson), so viable energy sources can come about and not be sucked out of existence over time by excessive growth and mis-management.
Hopefully the energy powers-that-are will get a crackin' and either develop new electrical sources or work hard to keep our electrical power abundant and cost-effective for everyone.
My last two bills were '0', but that was because my initial depost for service was credited back to my wife and I. That happens after one year of paying your bill on time. Such a deal. So I have a lot of incentive and interest in electrically-powered cars. I'll keep y'all posted on that progress from the tumbleweed connection of SE Arizona here.
>you be nothing more than a common , useless critic . One doesn't have to be an Einstein to realize that if something "
Rather than ridiculing my posting, post something about your expertise that supports your ability to say it scientifically has to work. Or post links from someone who has done a blind study? Otherwise your posts sound a lot like the global warming posters'. What degrees did you say you have in science?
iluv: sway the inventive powers to create good and viable alternative energies that the masses can tap in to.
me: well only the Creator can create energy. All people can do is harness what we were given, by converting it to fuels or electricity.
The thing you might want to consider is that if oil is running short and you don't want to expand the use of natural gas and coal to produce the electricity then you had better cover the country with windmills. Wh? There are millions of homes and buildings that use oil for heat. Take the oil away and you need to build millions and millions of windmills before you have enough extra electricity to power your first battery powered car.
I'm buying an oil heated house, and if the price of oil and gas keep at the current or go up, I will start using electric. Millions of people in my area could do similar over the years. And we'll burn wood and coal.
fut: but skepticism should encourage curiosity and the seeking of truth else you be nothing more than a common , useless critic .
me: so you're suggesting that we all should disbelieve the scientists who tell us the Earth is round, and that you can't burn water in your car engine? Be skeptical? We'll all just have to try and sail around the world or put water in our car and try it right?
I've got a duck BTW that eats corn and lays 1 oz golden eggs. I swear it - it lays gold! Send me $299 and I'll send you one of its chicks.
First , you should learn exactly what " MLM " really is . While you're at it maybe learn the true definition of " Ponzi " , and " Scam " .
It is quite apparent that you subscribe to and echo the words of a paid character assassin and proven liar . That's an easy trap to fall into . It's human nature to believe a falsehood as digging for the truth requires time and effort . The truth is like gold , it takes some digging . The truth is also like cream , it eventually floats to the top .
Why do critics always revert to placing words into their opposition's mouth when they run dry of any sensible rebuttal ?
Sorry , I can't do the research for you . That responsibility lies with the individual . And yes , critics are useless if they are too darn lazy to seek out the truth .
Sorry , I can't do the research for you . That responsibility lies with the individual . And yes , critics are useless if they are too darn lazy to seek out the truth .
Truth is I did do research on you supposed claims of 100 MPG conversion. All I get are websites with the same sales pitch, over and over. NO valid tests by independents. Only stories of lawsuits, indictments and Prison time. I would be careful whom I associate with. For those that want to try it, there are kits online for $50 that do exactly the same thing as the $995 kits.
The author's basic point is pretty good, but he falls to quickly (at least in the parts you chose to quote) into attempting to place blame. Big oil, OPEC, and various little dictators are not our problem. We are indeed addicted to oil. Just like every other addict, however, our problem is not the drug, the drug dealer, or the drug culture. Just like every other addict, it is very tempting to place blame on those things though. That's easy and it feels good. Instead of placing blame, the only effective way to break the addiction, is to first accept responsibility. If we don't do that, we will do whatever it takes to continue to feed the addiction. We will choose our path depending upon which way we are sufficiently motivated. BTW - the commentator makes stronger points in some of the rest of his commentary.
Quite simply, our problem is us and the choices we have made. Our choices have been driven by our addiction and the ready availability of cheap oil. It is arguable, and I tend to agree, that we will have an ever increasing need for energy. In order to meet that need, we have found that the simplest thing to do is burn something. We have found it incredibly difficult to break away from the lure of cheap, readily available things to burn, including and probably most especially oil. We never have had sufficient motivation to do so. IF alternatives are viable now or in the near future, they always have been. Cheap, easy oil and other sources just overshadowed the available alternatives. FWIW I think we are a long way from getting away from burning stuff in any serious degree.
We face a bit more than mere economic hardship as we break this addiction. It will take a paradigm shift in the way we think. I am confident we will do it, and if expensive oil is the catalyst, so be it. It will be painful, turbulent, fortunes will be made and lost, wars will be fought. Breaking an addiction is never an easy undertaking.
Sorry , I can't do the research for you . That responsibility lies with the individual
copout, shuck and jive, sidestep, na na na na na
If you know that this works, if it indeed does work, and you believe in it and hope to promote it, you should be more than willing to show how you know it works, how it works, and why you believe so strongly in it.
Rather than ridiculing my posting, post something about your expertise that supports your ability to say it scientifically has to work. Or post links from someone who has done a blind study? Otherwise your posts sound a lot like the global warming posters'. What degrees did you say you have in science?
I worked 20-30 hours a week through most of college when classes were in session.My last semester of school I tried to find a second job but just couldn't find one that fit with my first job schedule and my school schedule. I worked 40-50 hours a week during fall, winter, spring and summer breaks. When I got out of college I worked an average of 70 hours a week at two different jobs. I worked around 40ish hours a week at my shop then another 30ish hours at UPS.
Finally when peak season rolled around from Thanksgiving to New Years I worked 80 plus hours a week. I would cut back at the shop to under 40 hours a week because I was working at UPS sometimes from 2:00 PM to 2:00 AM monday through Thursday and Friday 6 to midnight with the occasional sunday night thrown in just for good measure.
Sounds about right to me too - if you are hyping something you need to be prepared to show the unwashed masses how it works.
It's pretty apparent that you are just promoting another flavor of snake oil future4u, especially since you are unable and unwilling to make any modicum of effort to back up your claims. Take it to a forum where people do believe in the quick fix, easy answer and golden goose.
While I appreciate your position, I feel you may be lumping all Excursion owners in an unholy relationship. I just acquired a 2000 7.3 liter Ford Excursion Diesel. I am transitioning into RVing full-time. I am able to operate my business via the internet and since I cannot retire, I have decided to go make this change. Because I have 2 dogs, I chose a travel trailer rather then a motor home. I needed a vehicle that would efficiently tow my 32 foot TT and allow my dogs to travel with me independent of the TT. An attorney client offered me the Excursion in lieu of cash payment, knowing it would meet my needs. It already has the tow package on it and has been maintained in pristine condition. It only had 117,000 miles on it --- most of those freeway miles.
Although I have not towed with it yet, my mileage varies from 15.4 to 16.2. Yes, it will be considerably less towing. But that is the price of having my "home" with me. My own bed at night -- my own bathroom, and the ability to visit friends and relatives and see new areas of the country. I do not plan to be on the road all that often as the point to all this is the freedom to enjoy a place until I'm ready to leave --- rather than the limitations of many years with 1-2 weeks of vacation. I
" I just acquired a 2000 7.3 liter Ford Excursion Diesel. I am transitioning into RVing full-time."
Your comment makes me wonder how many other "baby boomers" will be doing the same. The total number of new RVers could be substantial.
One word of caution, you may have already considered this, the price of fuel may not be the big issue in the future. The problem might be availability or shortages. Back in the 70s while on vacation in Florida, we saw a lot of RVs get stranded. They could only get a few gallons. A few gallons doesn't get you very far with your rig.
Do you have a small 100mpg scooter you can whip out for short trips to the local store? Scooters would be a great idea as long as the weather is OK.
I would guess you will migrate to the warmer part of the country in the winter and that we should not expect to see you up here in North Dakota in January.
Do you have a small 100mpg scooter you can whip out for short trips to the local store? Scooters would be a great idea as long as the weather is OK.
A small scooter would be great for getting around town when camped or you don't need the Excursion. Make sure you get one small enough that you can get it in and out of the trailer easy. I looked for one when we did our very short RV period. Finding one small and light enough for our MB Cruiser was not easy. Something like a Moped would be good. Maybe an electric bike would work.
I don't foresee shortages of fuel as in the 1970s. That was purely political in nature. Had nothing to do with supply. We do need to keep a strong military presence in the Middle East to avoid such occurrences in the future. We also get oil from many more sources than we did in 1973. As long as Congress does not think they can control the World price of oil we should not have any shortages. Though I would like to see a bit more US capacity in refining and storage. That is a NIMBY problem more than anything else.
"I don't foresee shortages of fuel as in the 1970s."
I guess my crystal ball is a little more cloudy when it comes to the issue of shortages. We saw some diesel shortages last year. A hurricane or fire could knock out a refinery or two or three... I think one has to be prepared for at least a temporary shortage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries
" That was purely political in nature. "
Does this mean that politics has disappeared or that it cannot happen again? :surprise: That's good, I was worried there for a bit. I can now rest easy.
This was an interesting summary that shows how the current fuel prices are causing headaches around the world and that people will be adjusting. The first reaction is usually anger, however.
"The Coming Energy Wars" http://www.newsweek.com/id/139395 "Germans are actually beginning to slow down on the autobahn to save fuel..."
The new issue of Consumer Reports listed several gas saving cars. What a disappointment. Most are not much better than a mid-sized 4 cylinder car.
The wife and I have been thinking about test driving one of those little 100 mpg scooters. It might be fun to have a few around. We figure that 4 scooters will fit in the garage if we move/get rid of the Highlander. Desperate times require desperate measures.
One of the important drivers of the cost of gas is the federal reserve interest rate. When they lowered the rate it weakened the dollar and pushed many investors out of the bond market who were happy to collect 5-1/2% interest. At 2% they went looking for someplace else to invest their money: Oil Futures became the better investment which is why there is 10 times as much oil futures being traded as there is oil, and one of the reasons the price has skyrocketed.
so the lowering of the interest rate and a bunch of investors helped to cause the spike in ghastly prices. Wow, I might not have guessed that the lowering of the interest rate affected gas prices but that investor sell-off and re-attribution. Now that is obnoxiously annoying.
Nice to see the smart investors getting rich off of everyone else's misery, isn't it? :sick:
I guess my crystal ball is a little more cloudy when it comes to the issue of shortages. We saw some diesel shortages last year.
Shortages of gas or diesel does not mean their is a shortage of oil. The whole refinery business in the US is cloudy for me. Some say we have plenty of capacity and reserves. Then Katrina knocks out a couple gas refineries and they switch a couple others over to producing gas. I personally think our refinery capacity is running too close to the ragged edge. From a business standpoint I would not want a refinery sitting idle. So without a good reserve of gas and diesel we get caught now and then. I have never in 49 years of driving been anywhere that I could not get gas or diesel. I was in Alaska during the 1970s mess, and we had plenty from the refinery in the state. At that time they used refined product as ballast in the ships that came up to get the crude oil from the Cook Inlet wells. No shortages or long lines in Anchorage. In fact the only times I remember waiting in line is recently at Costco to get the cheapest gas in town. Then it was only two vehicles in front of me. Usually if there is no open pump I don't stop for gas. I HATE lines anywhere. I refuse to wait in a restaurant for more than a couple minutes. Just me.
Nice to see the smart investors getting rich off of everyone else's misery, isn't it?
They have done that since the beginning of time. The worthless dollar brought on by the interest drop is also responsible for the run up in Gold and precious metals. Oil is just another commodity like Orange Juice concentrate. You try to buy low and sell high. Not everyone makes money. Lots of people lose money. If and when this oil price collapses there will be some people crying the blues in the market. We will be happy to see $3 gas again.
The ones who are losing money are US. As far as when the market crashes, how much do you want to bet the futures traders are going to go looking for a gift-wrapped bailout from the government? Their justification will be to prevent economic slowdowns or something along those lines.
In the meantime, we'll still have $4.30 gas (that's what I paid when I filled up this morning) which of COURSE has no effect on our own personal economies, right? :shades:
...these high fuel prices aren't hurting me too bad is that I live a pretty simple life as it is. I don't have a cell phone. I have dial-up internet access, (Mr. Slowski the turtle would be ecstatic!). I have old CRT televisions, no digital camera, and no video games. I grow my own garden, drink cheap beer, have no kids, my girlfriend is relatively low-maintenance, and I take no exotic vacations. My monthly mortgage payment is <$1K. If I wanted to trim fat - I guess I could get rid of my cable TV and my cats.
If I was really nuts, I'd get rid of both Cadillacs and just drive my hoopty Park Ave. I almost feel like it because I'm at the age where I have nothing to prove. A flashy new car is more important with the young guys who are still trying to impress the ladies.
It sure looks like it to me. The middle class usually takes the beating. I am sure the price of gas will keep many at the bottom of the ladder from driving. The fellow that works for me is taking the bus and trolley back & forth to Mexico each day. Takes him 2 hours each direction to get the 45 miles to where he leaves his car parked. Saves him about $10 in gas. You can ride the bus and trolley all day for $5.
In the meantime, we'll still have $4.30 gas (that's what I paid when I filled up this morning) which of COURSE has no effect on our own personal economies, right?
Those prices will hold as long as you're willing to pay it. When there are more people who want something then there is product, those paying the most get it.
On the bright-side you don't need to be wealthy to make $ to pay your entire gas bill. For the last 5 years, and YTD many energy funds are up 20% each and every year. If you didn't tie up all your funds in an overpriced house, or buy expensive cars you could have taken $20,000 and put it in a energy mutual fund. You don't need to be a future's trader to make money.
This is an article from CNN which speaks about the increase number of motorists running out of gas. Depending on where and when that can cause quite a backup and a lot of pain for the rest of us. In New York some years ago I believe there was a hefty fine for running out of gas on a bridge or in a tunnel. As distasteful as it may be if out of gas motorists becomes a large problem it may be time to issue fines on a highway as well.
Interesting article - did anyone at CNN think to question why - if this large van was used to drop a large group off at the airport, then the people must have had enough money to buy airline tickets - but didn't have enough money to give $5 each for gas to get to the airport... Do you see anything wrong with this case that people are running out of $ for gas?
As I said before maybe people are just spending their money on other things which they are unwilling to sacrifice the luxuries that are now considered necessities (or rights).
On the bright-side you don't need to be wealthy to make $ to pay your entire gas bill. For the last 5 years, and YTD many energy funds are up 20% each and every year. If you didn't tie up all your funds in an overpriced house, or buy expensive cars you could have taken $20,000 and put it in a energy mutual fund. You don't need to be a future's trader to make money.
Ok, let's see, I didn't tie up all my funds in a house (I rent, and share the place) or buy an expensive car (I bought a Mazda3 4 years ago...had to, my car of the time grenaded and I didn't have cash for a used car). However, I don't have money to spare to put money into energy futures.
Many people are in the same situation, so it's just NOT a good idea to keep singing like just anyone could go make money off of this oil bubble.
I applaud your thriftiness, but dial-up? Really? Have you shopped broadband lately? How much are you saving?
If I didn't have broadband, my employer wouldn't allow me to telecommute, & I'd have to go into my office 5 days per week instead of 2 or 3 days per week. Each day that I can work from home saves me enough to cover the difference between slow & fast for a month.
That's a good point...in some cases switching to dial-up is penny-wise and pound-foolish. I'm in the same boat...with broadband I can telecommute both to work AND to college classes (more often the latter). That's worth an extra $15 a month, considering how much I save in gas not physically going to classes.
Sure being in your 20's and even into your 30's many people have a tough time making ends meet, paying for college, and trying to save to buy into investments. But many people do have money as evidenced by the amount of property and stock in this country. Or if you have a 401K, what are you investing it in?
I'm speaking to those people who have their money in money markets, bonds and relatively flat stocks, that you should be diversified into these energy funds. If you truly believe the world is short on energy, then don't invest in overpriced housing, or the Dow30, or a 2% bank fund.
There are always going to be people who can't afford food or fuel in the world, that is the reality. We are not going to solve that.
The article never mentions how many and where they were going that was related to church business in order for the church van to be used...
I see all kinds of church vans running around this area--being used by the "pastor" for their personal business. I've become more suspicious of a lot of these "churches" after a friend told me how many people came to the business where he was manager to get business cards for their pastorhoods made up. Also the revelations at Obama's Chicago church have had a drastic impact.
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Hate to say it, but for someone in a situation like that, if money is already tight, they're going to be hurting big-time. For something like an old Satellite to get 20 mpg, that would have to be almost pure highway driving...not to mention a very well-tuned, low power engine like a slant six or 318. Well, at 20 mpg, the guy is using 10 gallons per week just for work. Or, 40 bucks per week. If he got into something that doubled his fuel economy, to 40 mpg, it would only save him 20 bucks per week. Or roughly $80-90 per month. Heck, just the car insurance difference, going from a liability-only hoopty to a full-coverage economy car, could eat up most of that savings.
In a situation like this, I'd say the guy would either have to start looking for an extra job, see if he can pick up some overtime...ANYTHING that could bring in more money. Or start seeing if there's some kind of fat that can be trimmed, like satellite tv, cell phone, a gym membership, etc. Unfortunately though, for many people, there's no fat to trim.
Sadly though, a person in this sort of situation is going to be screwed, no matter what. Even if somehow they could get into a car that used half the gas with no extra financial burden (say some eccentric old fool offered to give him a Civic or similar car, and pay the difference on the insurance), I don't think a person like this would be much better off. If your lifestyle is at the point where $80-90 per month is the difference between a roof over your head and the street, your situation is pretty dire. Increasing utility bills, food bills, rent, etc, or some unforeseen emergency could wipe out that $80-90 per month savings in the blink of an eye.
" Ignores basics physics and chemistry " ?? You researched this and your conclusion
is based on fact ?
I didn't think so , just a conditioned reaction to anything not understood or contrary to
your limited knowledge ?
>"Ignores basic physics and chemistry"
>I didn't think so, just a conditioned reaction to anything not understood or contrary to your limited knowledge ?
Maybe you can discuss your background and degrees in chemistry and physics that support your opinion that it's not a scam?
In my opinion, it's a scam.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Work!! eek!! It is hard enough to get todays youth to work a full time job. Now you want them to work an extra job? When I was growing up, my step dad worked two jobs and went to college when we lived in Portland, Oregon. He did not want my mom to work. That was the work ethic in the 1950s. I would say the person that cannot afford the gas for a car, is going to have to make some adjustments. Get rid of the cell phone and TV cable. Get a bicycle and quit buying processed junk food.
I was amazed at Von's last night. Two young guys in the line ahead of us, buying food. They were digging in their pockets for the money to pay. Everything they bought was processed JUNK FOOD. Absolute crap from Cocoa Puffs to frozen pizza. I have a hard time losing sleep over losers like that.
Higher Gas Prices can only help us
Americans should be celebrating rather than shuddering over the arrival of $4-a-gallon gasoline. We lived on cheap gas too long, failed to innovate and now face the consequences of competing for a finite resource amid fast-expanding global demand.
A further price rise as in Europe to $8 a gallon -- or $200 and more to fill a large SUV's tank -- would be a catalyst for economic, political and social change of profound national and global impact. We could face an economic squeeze, but it would be the pain before the gain.
The U.S. economy absorbed a tripling in gas prices in the last six years without falling into recession, at least through March. Ravenous demand from China and India could see prices further double in the next few years -- and jumpstart the overdue process of weaning ourselves off fossil fuels.
Consider the world of good that would come of pricing crude oil and gasoline at levels that would strain our finances as much as they're straining international relations and the planet's long-term health:
1. RIP for the internal-combustion engine
They may contain computer chips, but the power source for today's cars is little different than that which drove the first Model T 100 years ago. That we're still harnessed to this antiquated technology is testament to Big Oil's influence in Washington and success in squelching advances in fuel efficiency and alternative energy.
Given our achievement in getting a giant mainframe's computing power into a handheld device in just a few decades, we should be able to do likewise with these dirty, little rolling power plants that served us well but are overdue for the scrap heap of history.
2. Economic stimulus
Necessity being the mother of invention, $8 gas would trigger all manner of investment sure to lead to groundbreaking advances. Job creation wouldn't be limited to research labs; it would rapidly spill over into lucrative manufacturing jobs that could help restore America's industrial base and make us a world leader in a critical realm.
The most groundbreaking discoveries might still be 25 or more years off, but we won't see massive public and corporate funding of research initiatives until escalating oil costs threaten our national security and global stability -- a time that's fast approaching.
3. Wither the Middle East's clout
This region that's contributed little to modern civilization exercises inordinate sway over the world because of its one significant contribution -- crude extraction. Aside from ensuring Israel's security, the U.S. would have virtually no strategic or business interest in this volatile, desolate region were it not for oil -- and its radical element wouldn't be able to demonize us as the exploiters of its people.
In the near term, breaking our dependence on Middle Eastern oil may well require the acceptance of drilling in the Alaskan wilderness -- with the understanding that costly environmental protections could easily be built into the price of $8 gas.
4. Deflating oil potentates
On a similar note, Venezuela's Hugo Chavez and Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad recently gained a platform on the world stage because of their nations' sudden oil wealth. Without it, they would face the difficult task of building fair and just economies and societies on some other basis.
How far would their message resonate -- and how long would they even stay in power -- if they were unable to buy off the temporary allegiance of their people with vast oil revenues?
NO kidding. I think "future guy" has something to gain personally by pushing this product.
Maybe someone should submit it to Myth Busters so they can test is. I'm not going to buy something like that based on a hope and a prayer. I want to see concrete non biased test results.
As for the water turned into gasoline myth, I was listening to a national car talk show from Detroit WJR 760 this morning and they still advertise the tornado fan blade unit that fits inside your air intake. I'm still trying to figure out how a fan blade adding air resistance to the intake of my 3800 Series II is going to affect the air intake into the cylinders where the fuel is sprayed in by injectors. The air travels into the plenum volume and then is sucked through air tubes that are about 8 inches long that arch over the top of the air plenum dome to take the air to the cyllinders (something related to tuning the air pressure pulses for better operation.
I consider the tornado in the same category of transfer devices as the gas from water devices. They transfer money from the sucker's pocket to the sellers' pockets. Everytime there's a rise in prices of fuel, these gimmicks come out of the woodwork.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well, I'm thinking more in terms of some poor working stiff who's the head of household, and not some college kid that has Mommy and Daddy to pick up the tab. When you're out on your own, you do what it takes to keep a roof over your head. Both of my grandmothers worked...in fact, the one who's still alive worked up until she was 70. Her mother even worked, almost up till the day she died. She worked a concessions stand at a local movie theater. That was a long time ago though, as she died in 1969. I dunno if there are too many seniors manning the concession stands these days. They probably wouldn't mingle too well with the teens you usually see there.
When I ran into financial problems back in the 90's, I already had a part time job but it wasn't cutting it. So I went out and got a better part time job. Also ended up having to move in with my grandmother for a couple years and rent the condo out, and when I could afford to move back in, I took in roommates. You do what it takes.
I'm in a house now, and still have roommates. I could probably afford to not have them by this point, but the extra money's nice. And they don't get on my nerves. Usually. :P
I was amazed at Von's last night. Two young guys in the line ahead of us, buying food. They were digging in their pockets for the money to pay. Everything they bought was processed JUNK FOOD. Absolute crap from Cocoa Puffs to frozen pizza. I have a hard time losing sleep over losers like that.
But again, do you think these young guys were parents pulling down a 40 hour per week job at WalMart, trying to keep their families afloat? Or were they college kids, who haven't necessarily gotten a dose of the real world yet?
me: That might be a typo on their part. I haven't seen that thru most areas thru the years. The difference is $0.20 most stations. I do use 93 octane so I know. And I'l be glad when they get the ethanol out of the gas, and it seems we might be headed that way.
me: if that's really true, it's too bad. But the franchisee whether it be with a Mc'D's a gas station, or whatever should not become a franchisee if the terms aren't fair. Walk-away!! I certainly wouldn't sign an agreement where the rent isn't spelled out long-term or has a low maximum increase, or any of those other terms. A good lawyer would have also advised her against these things.
I would have to say the same thing goes for independent truck drivers. You have to be a smart and good negotiator. Don't get into deals where you can't recover your diesel costs and make a living. The thing with the independents though is that some truckers are desperate, taking the business, and thus ruining the negotiating power of all them.
You might want to get together with 3 other coworkers in that place and rent a 4-bedroom house.
I see the Walmart and McD jobs as being for teens, college students, retirees, and for a few months between jobs for adults. If you think you can work 1-job like that and afford a house, car, and family ... that's dreaming. You better get 2 more part-time jobs and some roommates. Better yet - get a skill or open a business.
It's natural and prudent to be a skeptic , but skepticism should
encourage curiosity and the seeking of truth else you be nothing
more than a common , useless critic . One doesn't have to be an
Einstein to realize that if something " WORKS " it " WORKS " !
To me the answer to ICE's is electrical propulsion. Heck, if battery production gets smarter, like China's BYD should be able to pull off, and they can make them so they stay intact and don't regenerate too quickly, we can make this pup work. That is what has my rapt attention, car battery production.
Here in Cochise County, the former home of Geronimo and Chief Cochise, the winds blow a lot of the time. Wind-generated electricity is being discussed. Our energy rates are affordable right now and the growth in Cochise County is not head over heels(we're far enough away from Tucson, 80 miles away, so workers don't relocate here that work in Tucson), so viable energy sources can come about and not be sucked out of existence over time by excessive growth and mis-management.
Hopefully the energy powers-that-are will get a crackin' and either develop new electrical sources or work hard to keep our electrical power abundant and cost-effective for everyone.
My last two bills were '0', but that was because my initial depost for service was credited back to my wife and I. That happens after one year of paying your bill on time. Such a deal. So I have a lot of incentive and interest in electrically-powered cars. I'll keep y'all posted on that progress from the tumbleweed connection of SE Arizona here.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Einstein to realize that if something "
Rather than ridiculing my posting, post something about your expertise that supports your ability to say it scientifically has to work. Or post links from someone who has done a blind study? Otherwise your posts sound a lot like the global warming posters'. What degrees did you say you have in science?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
me: well only the Creator can create energy. All people can do is harness what we were given, by converting it to fuels or electricity.
The thing you might want to consider is that if oil is running short and you don't want to expand the use of natural gas and coal to produce the electricity then you had better cover the country with windmills. Wh? There are millions of homes and buildings that use oil for heat. Take the oil away and you need to build millions and millions of windmills before you have enough extra electricity to power your first battery powered car.
I'm buying an oil heated house, and if the price of oil and gas keep at the current or go up, I will start using electric. Millions of people in my area could do similar over the years. And we'll burn wood and coal.
encourage curiosity and the seeking of truth else you be nothing
more than a common , useless critic .
me: so you're suggesting that we all should disbelieve the scientists who tell us the Earth is round, and that you can't burn water in your car engine? Be skeptical? We'll all just have to try and sail around the world or put water in our car and try it right?
I've got a duck BTW that eats corn and lays 1 oz golden eggs. I swear it - it lays gold! Send me $299 and I'll send you one of its chicks.
learn the true definition of " Ponzi " , and " Scam " .
It is quite apparent that you subscribe to and echo the words of a paid character assassin and proven liar . That's an easy trap to fall into . It's human nature to believe a falsehood as digging for the truth requires time and effort . The truth is like gold , it takes some digging . The truth is also like cream , it eventually floats to the top .
when they run dry of any sensible rebuttal ?
Sorry , I can't do the research for you . That responsibility lies with the individual .
And yes , critics are useless if they are too darn lazy to seek out the truth .
And yes , critics are useless if they are too darn lazy to seek out the truth .
Truth is I did do research on you supposed claims of 100 MPG conversion. All I get are websites with the same sales pitch, over and over. NO valid tests by independents. Only stories of lawsuits, indictments and Prison time. I would be careful whom I associate with. For those that want to try it, there are kits online for $50 that do exactly the same thing as the $995 kits.
Quite simply, our problem is us and the choices we have made. Our choices have been driven by our addiction and the ready availability of cheap oil. It is arguable, and I tend to agree, that we will have an ever increasing need for energy. In order to meet that need, we have found that the simplest thing to do is burn something. We have found it incredibly difficult to break away from the lure of cheap, readily available things to burn, including and probably most especially oil. We never have had sufficient motivation to do so. IF alternatives are viable now or in the near future, they always have been. Cheap, easy oil and other sources just overshadowed the available alternatives. FWIW I think we are a long way from getting away from burning stuff in any serious degree.
We face a bit more than mere economic hardship as we break this addiction. It will take a paradigm shift in the way we think. I am confident we will do it, and if expensive oil is the catalyst, so be it. It will be painful, turbulent, fortunes will be made and lost, wars will be fought. Breaking an addiction is never an easy undertaking.
copout, shuck and jive, sidestep, na na na na na
If you know that this works, if it indeed does work, and you believe in it and hope to promote it, you should be more than willing to show how you know it works, how it works, and why you believe so strongly in it.
Rather than ridiculing my posting, post something about your expertise that supports your ability to say it scientifically has to work. Or post links from someone who has done a blind study? Otherwise your posts sound a lot like the global warming posters'. What degrees did you say you have in science?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I worked 20-30 hours a week through most of college when classes were in session.My last semester of school I tried to find a second job but just couldn't find one that fit with my first job schedule and my school schedule. I worked 40-50 hours a week during fall, winter, spring and summer breaks. When I got out of college I worked an average of 70 hours a week at two different jobs. I worked around 40ish hours a week at my shop then another 30ish hours at UPS.
Finally when peak season rolled around from Thanksgiving to New Years I worked 80 plus hours a week. I would cut back at the shop to under 40 hours a week because I was working at UPS sometimes from 2:00 PM to 2:00 AM monday through Thursday and Friday 6 to midnight with the occasional sunday night thrown in just for good measure.
Sounds about right to me too - if you are hyping something you need to be prepared to show the unwashed masses how it works.
It's pretty apparent that you are just promoting another flavor of snake oil future4u, especially since you are unable and unwilling to make any modicum of effort to back up your claims. Take it to a forum where people do believe in the quick fix, easy answer and golden goose.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZZhxW5ym68
Moving on...
Although I have not towed with it yet, my mileage varies from 15.4 to 16.2. Yes, it will be considerably less towing. But that is the price of having my "home" with me. My own bed at night -- my own bathroom, and the ability to visit friends and relatives and see new areas of the country. I do not plan to be on the road all that often as the point to all this is the freedom to enjoy a place until I'm ready to leave --- rather than the limitations of many years with 1-2 weeks of vacation. I
I have looked with shock at the increasing prices --- wondering how someone who often drove compact cars could end up driving a city block. http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/- - emotorcons/emo_blush.gif
blushHowever, as a woman I appreciate the safety features the vehicle offers and the ease of operation. I am assured it will meet my needs for a long time.
So please don't lump everyone together and stereotype their motives :shades: . Sometimes a person has a particular vehicle for a specific purpose.http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/we- - bxicons/emotorcons/emo_shades.gif
shades
Your comment makes me wonder how many other "baby boomers" will be doing the same. The total number of new RVers could be substantial.
One word of caution, you may have already considered this, the price of fuel may not be the big issue in the future. The problem might be availability or shortages. Back in the 70s while on vacation in Florida, we saw a lot of RVs get stranded. They could only get a few gallons. A few gallons doesn't get you very far with your rig.
Do you have a small 100mpg scooter you can whip out for short trips to the local store? Scooters would be a great idea as long as the weather is OK.
I would guess you will migrate to the warmer part of the country in the winter and that we should not expect to see you up here in North Dakota in January.
A small scooter would be great for getting around town when camped or you don't need the Excursion. Make sure you get one small enough that you can get it in and out of the trailer easy. I looked for one when we did our very short RV period. Finding one small and light enough for our MB Cruiser was not easy. Something like a Moped would be good. Maybe an electric bike would work.
I don't foresee shortages of fuel as in the 1970s. That was purely political in nature. Had nothing to do with supply. We do need to keep a strong military presence in the Middle East to avoid such occurrences in the future. We also get oil from many more sources than we did in 1973. As long as Congress does not think they can control the World price of oil we should not have any shortages. Though I would like to see a bit more US capacity in refining and storage. That is a NIMBY problem more than anything else.
I guess my crystal ball is a little more cloudy when it comes to the issue of shortages. We saw some diesel shortages last year. A hurricane or fire could knock out a refinery or two or three... I think one has to be prepared for at least a temporary shortage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries
" That was purely political in nature. "
Does this mean that politics has disappeared or that it cannot happen again? :surprise: That's good, I was worried there for a bit. I can now rest easy.
That, to me, is the big reason that shortages are unlikely. OPEC, while still significant, is not the force that it was in the 70s.
"Shocked! How the oil crisis has hit the world"
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/shocked-how-the-oil-crisis- -has-hit-the-world-837477.html
This was an interesting summary that shows how the current fuel prices are causing headaches around the world and that people will be adjusting. The first reaction is usually anger, however.
"The Coming Energy Wars"
http://www.newsweek.com/id/139395
"Germans are actually beginning to slow down on the autobahn to save fuel..."
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Is nothing sacred.
"Edmunds.com Forecasts May Auto Sales"
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/edmundscom-forecasts-may-auto-sales,4133- 09.shtml
But people are adjusting. Subcompacts up 28% and large SUVs down 22%.
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/05/seismic-shift-to-smaller-segments-rocks-us-m- arket-edmunds-analysis-shows.html
The new issue of Consumer Reports listed several gas saving cars. What a disappointment. Most are not much better than a mid-sized 4 cylinder car.
The wife and I have been thinking about test driving one of those little 100 mpg scooters. It might be fun to have a few around. We figure that 4 scooters will fit in the garage if we move/get rid of the Highlander. Desperate times require desperate measures.
Nice to see the smart investors getting rich off of everyone else's misery, isn't it? :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Shortages of gas or diesel does not mean their is a shortage of oil. The whole refinery business in the US is cloudy for me. Some say we have plenty of capacity and reserves. Then Katrina knocks out a couple gas refineries and they switch a couple others over to producing gas. I personally think our refinery capacity is running too close to the ragged edge. From a business standpoint I would not want a refinery sitting idle. So without a good reserve of gas and diesel we get caught now and then. I have never in 49 years of driving been anywhere that I could not get gas or diesel. I was in Alaska during the 1970s mess, and we had plenty from the refinery in the state. At that time they used refined product as ballast in the ships that came up to get the crude oil from the Cook Inlet wells. No shortages or long lines in Anchorage. In fact the only times I remember waiting in line is recently at Costco to get the cheapest gas in town. Then it was only two vehicles in front of me. Usually if there is no open pump I don't stop for gas. I HATE lines anywhere. I refuse to wait in a restaurant for more than a couple minutes. Just me.
They have done that since the beginning of time. The worthless dollar brought on by the interest drop is also responsible for the run up in Gold and precious metals. Oil is just another commodity like Orange Juice concentrate. You try to buy low and sell high. Not everyone makes money. Lots of people lose money. If and when this oil price collapses there will be some people crying the blues in the market. We will be happy to see $3 gas again.
In the meantime, we'll still have $4.30 gas (that's what I paid when I filled up this morning) which of COURSE has no effect on our own personal economies, right? :shades:
If I was really nuts, I'd get rid of both Cadillacs and just drive my hoopty Park Ave. I almost feel like it because I'm at the age where I have nothing to prove. A flashy new car is more important with the young guys who are still trying to impress the ladies.
It sure looks like it to me. The middle class usually takes the beating. I am sure the price of gas will keep many at the bottom of the ladder from driving. The fellow that works for me is taking the bus and trolley back & forth to Mexico each day. Takes him 2 hours each direction to get the 45 miles to where he leaves his car parked. Saves him about $10 in gas. You can ride the bus and trolley all day for $5.
Those prices will hold as long as you're willing to pay it. When there are more people who want something then there is product, those paying the most get it.
On the bright-side you don't need to be wealthy to make $ to pay your entire gas bill. For the last 5 years, and YTD many energy funds are up 20% each and every year. If you didn't tie up all your funds in an overpriced house, or buy expensive cars you could have taken $20,000 and put it in a energy mutual fund. You don't need to be a future's trader to make money.
Also, related article on Feds investigating trading: Feds investigate
As I said before maybe people are just spending their money on other things which they are unwilling to sacrifice the luxuries that are now considered necessities (or rights).
Ok, let's see, I didn't tie up all my funds in a house (I rent, and share the place) or buy an expensive car (I bought a Mazda3 4 years ago...had to, my car of the time grenaded and I didn't have cash for a used car). However, I don't have money to spare to put money into energy futures.
Many people are in the same situation, so it's just NOT a good idea to keep singing like just anyone could go make money off of this oil bubble.
If I didn't have broadband, my employer wouldn't allow me to telecommute, & I'd have to go into my office 5 days per week instead of 2 or 3 days per week. Each day that I can work from home saves me enough to cover the difference between slow & fast for a month.
But many people do have money as evidenced by the amount of property and stock in this country. Or if you have a 401K, what are you investing it in?
I'm speaking to those people who have their money in money markets, bonds and relatively flat stocks, that you should be diversified into these energy funds. If you truly believe the world is short on energy, then don't invest in overpriced housing, or the Dow30, or a 2% bank fund.
There are always going to be people who can't afford food or fuel in the world, that is the reality. We are not going to solve that.
I see all kinds of church vans running around this area--being used by the "pastor" for their personal business. I've become more suspicious of a lot of these "churches" after a friend told me how many people came to the business where he was manager to get business cards for their pastorhoods made up. Also the revelations at Obama's Chicago church have had a drastic impact.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,