"Working a 4 day week gives one more day a week to do things. If you go somewhere that one extra day it could very well negate the gas savings of one day less of commuting."
Very true! But with gas at $4/gal., I suspect that the only place most folks are going is their back yard. And that's a real big change in the American lifestyle.
Speaking of changes, who else here agrees with me that RVs are going the way of the dodo bird?
One class of vehicle that I see less of - the modified coupe - could it be that the young guy who has put all the time and effort (and cash) into modifying the Civic can no longer afford to drive it??
Not where I am. I was gassing up the Park Ave on Sunday night after work and the Sunoco was full of young guys in their modded Civics and other imports. One dude apparently was having trouble with his ride as the hood was up with a bunch of other young guys around it and parts scattered on the pavement. Nice to see the kids still have gas money. Ah, to be young and foolish again! :P
I still see kids parked and profiling...., but not as much driving. This takes me back to the late '70s when I first started driving and working, and used to buy gas using change.... any one else remember pulling into a gas station, searching the pockets and saying something like "Gimme $2.80 regular?"
You have never heard the head honcho go on about how great cockroaches are to have around? Don't you remember when PETA panned the Prius because Toyota was adding leather seats. These guys are waaaay out there in lala land. They want us all to be vegans. Yet they raise a fuss if you kill the squirrels, rabbits and kangaroos that are eating all the vegetation on the planet.
Juan Campos was apparently drunk and had fallen asleep at the wheel before crashing into the race in Monterrey, Mexico, police investigator Jose Alfredo Rodriguez said.
A photograph taken by a city official shows the horrifying moment of impact. The force of the collision sent bicyclists and equipment high into the air and Matamoros newspaper El Mañana described children crying, women shouting for help and men trying to lynch Campos before police arrived to arrest him.
Killed in the crash was Alejandro Alvarez, 37, of Monterrey.
Campos told police he was an American citizen from Brownsville, Texas. The U.S. consulate could not immediately confirm that.
are depressing me with all your "with gas at $4/gallon now..." commentary. Gas in my area is up to $4.35/gallon for regular, $4.57 for premium, up another dime since last Friday. I wonder where it will finally plateau. $4.50? I hope it doesn't reach $5 this summer, but I suspect that it will. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Gary said, "For you all that thinking biking is safe.."
You are not serious with that statement, are you? Are you seriously comparing using a bike for a commute to the accident referenced in the above story? Tell me that was a joke...................PLEASE....................
I have gotten a dollars worth of gas many, many times when I was in high school. Gas would be 19 cents a gallon during the gas wars.
My first new car was a 1968 VW bug. It had a 12 gallon tank. I could fill it up when close to empty for about $2.50 The car cost $1900 new. During the gas wars they would pump your gas, check your oil, give green stamps and some times a plastic handle steak knife.
It is a news story that just happened. It should keep those that ride bikes alert to people that have no control of their cars. Same as a driver slamming into a crowd. I don't consider riding a bike on the street with cars a safe way to travel. I did it for a long time in Kona Hawaii and was VERY cautious. Many bike riders do not show much caution. They expect the vehicle drivers to look out for them. We have lots of weekend bike warriors in our neighborhood. They ride 3 or more abreast on the narrow two lane roads, you have to wait until it is safe to pass them. I will snap some shots when I get a chance.
During the pizza delivery days, were you in the habit of leaving the car idling while you went to the door at each destination? I remember working delivery for about a year for this video place, driving my old Corolla, and I always used to leave it idling in the drive while I went to the door, unless I was in a dubious area. Just thinking about wasting that much gas now makes me slightly ill...
Yeah, back in those days I'd usually just leave the car running. I delivered in a fairly safe community that was mainly single family homes with driveways, where I could pull practically right up to the front door. Now for places like townhouses, condos, apartments, or businesses, where the car would be in a parking lot, or where it was more likely someone could just walk by and hop in the car, I would shut it off.
The main reason I'd leave the car running though, was to save wear and tear on the starter. Also, I don't think a car really uses THAT much fuel while idling. Plus, until I got the Intrepid, the cars I drove all had carburetors, where you don't really save much fuel, if any, in turning the car off for a minute or two and then having to restart, versus just letting it idle during that time.
I delivered pizzas from 1996 to 2001. If I had to go back to doing it, I'd definitely turn the car off every time. Unfortunately, this area has gone a bit south with regards to crime and violence these days. It's not like Compton in a gangsta rap video or anything, but I just wouldn't want to tempt fate. Plus, I guess I'm just older now, more conservative, less willing to take a chance.
I haven't had a pizza delivered in ages. For all I know, some places might already be slapping on a delivery surcharge. Actually, when I worked for Little Caesar's, they tried that once. They were arguing that because of having drivers, their insurance costs went way up, so they started slapping on a $1.00 delivery charge. Of which the driver didn't see a penny. And naturally, that would make some customers give a cheaper tip, since they're getting whacked with a surcharge. Surprisingly though, most customers understood.
Imagine the thrill for some of those 3-abreast rides who believe the cars have to put up with them blocking the whole lane...
In past years people put speakers behind their grill. Imagine a speaker that starts playing loud screeching of tires like a car coming up behind them too fast and is trying to stop and sliding into them!
I notice in the picture posted of the bicycles being hit by the car that one of the helmets is flying through the air--it came off!!!
Gary says, "It should keep those that ride bikes alert to people that have no control of their cars. Same as a driver slamming into a crowd."
Gary, you have a penchant for posting things that have only a peripheral meaning for the subject at hand and saying, "see, see, there there, see, see !!!!"
You know how many times "people who have no control of their cars" slam into crowds of bikers? Probably about once every five hundred billion bike miles or so.
Anyone riding a bike for a commute (have they a lick of common sense) knows that cars are their most critical danger. That's why I ride almost exclusively on the sidewalk.
Remember though: The levels of bikers getting killed by cars is far far less per capita than people dying in car wrecks. It is still far safer to ride a bike than to drive a car.
You don't need to post snap shots of the bikers hogging the road. They know they have the right of way over cars and take advantage of it. Most of them who habitually do that are fools. But they make up a very small portion of bike riders who commute on their bikes.
Riding for your commute is different for most people than riding for pleasure.
The reason they take notice is because there is a resultant X.X% decrease in tax revenues
That is exactly correct.
I imagine Ahnold is getting a bit anxious with the sales of so many econoboxes. He not only loses the higher sales tax revenue from the SUVs not being purchased. He is losing 46 cents per gallon. That can be a lot when you go from a 15 MPG SUV to a 30 MPG Civic. Not to mention the 50% less sales tax. That could be as much as $2000 per vehicle sale. Then the license fee each year will be less on the smaller car. Yet the road usage and congestion is the same. I guess he will have to dig into his deep pockets and make up the shortfall.
>if someone getting hit by a car gives some vicarious thrill, enjoy
I'm not sure about the meaning of your post so I'll assume it's positive since I personally don't get a thrill. My concern is that helmets aren't supposed to come off! I know of several people through the decades killed either running or riding their bikes along roads without trails or sidewalks.
I watched a car run into a group of pedestrians of about 30 walking across a 4-lane street near University of Cincinnati campus. The impact was lower than 35 but he hit a few of the nursing class girls. This was before cell phones. I drove up the road looking for a phone and a Cincy policeman was at the intersection. I told him and he looked at me like he didn't believe me that there was an accident down the hill in front to of the hospital.
Your playing a little fear mongering. We could find examples of tragic events to show that just about any activity is dangerous. I am pretty sure those UNC students didn't think simply hanging out at The Pit was dangerous a couple of years ago.
The mere presence of the bicycles, or even the car for that matter, is not what brought about this horrific event. It was the behavior of that driver.
Follow the laws, employ safe practices, maybe sprinkle in a little common courtesy (even if it, gasp, inconveniences you a little) and bicycles on the streets are no more dangerous than cars. 'Tis unfortunate that courtesy is becoming somewhat less common.
You know how many times "people who have no control of their cars" slam into crowds of bikers? Probably about once every five hundred billion bike miles or so.
I am not sure of your motive in posting all these made up statistics. Do you have any links that would back up your statements. You ride on the sidewalk which would be my choice if their is not a dedicated bike trail. I have personally seen as many accidents with bicycles and motorcycles as I have auto accidents. In 1999, there were 750 bicycling fatalities and 51,000 bicycling injuries resulting from traffic crashes in the United States. While these numbers continue to decrease from year to year, bicyclist fatalities still account for 2 percent of all traffic fatalities as well as 2 percent of all traffic injuries.
I seriously doubt that bicycling amounts to 2% of the miles driven in the USA. Which will prove that riding a bicycle on a road that is primarily used by cars to more dangerous than being in a car. You usually get your facts closer to accurate than this post.
You are right I am. I always am on the side of caution. You cannot be too careful riding a bike. Think about this. What if the EPA decided to force the bike manufacturers to make a bicycle as safe as they do cars? Why do I need airbags surrounding me in a car and nothing to protect me except a plastic helmet when riding a bike, sharing the same road?
I didn't make up any "statistics" at all. I just stated an opinion, like if you and I were having a one-on-one conversation.
Read what I said: I said the times people on bikes were killed by drivers who (in YOUR WORDS) "were not in control of their car" was very low. There are no stats for that, but I stand by my estimate.
Some of those biking deaths are not related to crashes with cars, and many of the injuries are not car-related either.
From one of your posted links:
As of 2002: Since 1932, 47,000 "pedalcyclists" have been killed. More than that die every SINGLE year in car crashes.
Pedestrians are killed far far more than bikers. Of the total "people killed while on a roadway but not in a car" numbers, pedestrians make up about 85% to 87% in most recent years. The rest are bikers, roller bladers, skateboarders, etc.
Nothing done on a road is without risk. I personally know far far many more people who have died in car crashes than in pedestrian or bike accidents. Don't you?
UPDATE:
I found some more current stats. In 2006, Arizona led the country in bikers killed per capita. 1.42 deaths per 1 million vehicle miles traveled. That's pretty darn low !! Now you see why I ride on the sidewalks !!!???!!!!!!
"The "typical" bicyclist killed on our roads is a sober male over 16 not wearing a helmet riding on a major road between intersections in an urban area on a summer evening when hit by a car."
A very high percentage of cyclists' brain injuries can be prevented by a helmet, estimated at anywhere from 45 to 88 per cent.
Anyone who rides a bike or a motorcycle is just being a FOOL if they do not don a helmet.
At least you willingly admit what you're doing. :shades:
Promoting caution, or safety, and fear mongering are very different. The former is the more reasoned, rational, somewhat objective approach. The latter preys upon emotionalism and the lowest common denominator of fear. Methinks the latter is the more desirable way to accomplish a given goal. I'm willing to assume that your goal is for more safe transportation for all concerned.
It would seem to me unreasonable to expect that any machine should be likewise safe as another machine of very different design. It would seem much more appropriate to make the operation of any given machine as safe as the operation of that machine can be. Ergo helmets and reflectors for bicycles, ABS and airbags for cars.
See, things aren't dangerous. Bicycles aren't dangerous. Cars aren't dangerous. Not paying attention, exceeding posted speed limits, not adjusting to situations, circumstances, or environment, engaging in an activity while impaired or in the wrong frame of mind, those are dangerous. Unfortunately we cannot idiot-proof the world.
"Should I post a pic of the seven car pileup in Florida a few days ago, and point out that driving is unsafe?"
Yes, you should. But don't forget to compare the death and injury caused by the car pileup with that caused by the car/bicycle accident. Bikes don't have seat belts and airbags.
I think the picture says it all. Bicyclists don't stand a chance against a car. Yes, accidents are rare, but it only takes one to ruin your life. Just ask Stephen King -- although, to be fair, he was walking when a car hit him, not biking.
How many of us are willing to risk death or paralysis on a daily basis just to save money on gasoline?
"Bicycles aren't dangerous. Cars aren't dangerous. Not paying attention, exceeding posted speed limits ..... those are dangerous."
This statement is correct. However, it leaves out the salient point that a car driver's inattention causes danger TO a bicyclist; that is, even the most careful, attentive cyclist can't compensate for a distracted driver. The bike rider bears the consequences of other people's actions.
Basically, when you ride a bicycle in traffic, you're saying, "I trust you with my life," to a bunch of strangers whizzing by you in 3,000 lb. chunks of steel. Again, how many of us are willing to do that? .
I think the picture says it all. Bicyclists don't stand a chance against a car. Yes, accidents are rare, but it only takes one to ruin your life. Just ask Stephen King -- although, to be fair, he was walking when a car hit him, not biking.
How many of us are willing to risk death or paralysis on a daily basis just to save money on gasoline?
So based on this, walking is pretty darn risky too - so ban that.
As to risking death or paralysis, just about everything you do once you get out of bed (including getting out of bed) increases your risk. And if you are serious about BOTH saving gasoline, AND reducing risk, then mass transit is the way to go.
Freedom of choice is not a bad thing; as I said before, just about every activity comes with a cost/benefit ratio. If for you riding a bike carries too high a potential cost, then don't do it, however it is still a viable choice for many.
I have many questions about safety standards. For instance, I can get in deep trouble if I have a child in my car without a seatbelt fastened. Yet when I drop him off to get on a bus, there are no restraints, airbags, ABS, XYZ etc etc.
I can buy an electric 3 wheeler and get it licensed in CA as a motorcycle. If I added a fourth wheel it would have to have all the safety requirements of any other car.
I put the bulk of the responsibility of maintaining control of any vehicle on the driver. It seems to me that many people expect the vehicle to be invulnerable no matter how stupid they drive.
So how can the regulators justify allowing an unprotected bicycle or motorcycle share the same road as a fully protected car?
They took several small good handling cars from the 1980s that would get 50 MPG and loaded them so far down with safety equipment that it is rare for them to get over 35 MPG. Yet the bicycle is about the same as it was 75 years ago.
If I am willing to take the risk of driving a small car that gets 50 MPG without all the safety equipment, how is that any different than my deciding to ride a completely unprotected bicycle?
June 3 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., struggling to return to profit amid record gasoline prices, said it will close four truck plants, make more small cars, and may drop its Hummer brand of sport-utility vehicles.
Gasoline exceeding $4 a gallon represents ``a structural change, not just a cyclical change,'' CEO Rick Wagoner told reporters at the annual shareholders' meeting.
At Hummer, ``we're considering all options from a complete revamp to a partial or complete sale of the brand,'' Wagoner said.
``It is significant, but this is a late reaction to changing market dynamics,'' said one automotive consultant. ``The plans really should have been in place a number of years ago.''
That last sentence is a candidate for understatement of the year! .
Basically, when you ride a bicycle in traffic, you're saying, "I trust you with my life," to a bunch of strangers whizzing by you in 3,000 lb. chunks of steel. Again, how many of us are willing to do that?
That is exactly right. Those that feel the risk is worth it have my blessing. I have done it and was not comfortable most of the time. All it takes is a little loose gravel or sand going around a corner to flip you under the wheels of a car. When it is raining forget it I am off the bike. I like myself too much to take the risk around big vehicles. Going off road where you fall you skin up your shins is no big deal. I had two motorcycle racing buddies get killed by drivers pulling out in front of them. You all that think it is safer than riding in a car or SUV have at it. The statistics are not in your favor. I'll do my two wheel riding where there is no traffic.
Gary says, "You all that think it is safer than riding in a car or SUV have at it. The statistics are not in your favor."
Actually, the stats are pretty close. As of the 2006 statistics, it was safer to ride a bike (measured by deaths per 100 VMT) than to be in a vehicle in about half the states in the union. (The USA average for vehicle was 1.41)
And almost all bikers who die suffer head trauma injuries - and in most cases the risk can be reduced greatly by wearing a helmet.
Wearing your helmet is the number one thing you can do to reduce your risk of death while biking. Treating cars like they are assassins is another good safety trick.
I happen to think that riding on the sidewalk is a good safety trick also.
I made a riding mistake and someone skidded to avoid me when I was about 14 yrs old. Thank God for that driver's alertness. I've been more careful since. The Indiana Law Enforcement officers had a bike ride to honor a fallen hero last year. There were about 15 or 20, mostly police officers, riding east on US 40 towards Indianapolis. They were followed by a 14' box truck with flashers going 10 mph or so. They were in the right lane of a 4 lane divided hwy. A semi rig hit the box truck from behind at 70 mph as the driver was asleep at 11AM. Almost everybody ended up in the hospital and a few didn't make it. They thought they were doing everything in their power to be safe. Put me in a 4000 lb steel box while I'm still alive and I'll pay the price of gas. Biking these days is for neighborhoods and trails and even that serves up plenty of injuries. One friend of mine fell off a 27" bike and has a permanent deformed shoulder blade that sticks up a inch on one side. Another friend knew someone that was deliberately hit from behind in the head by a steel side mirror on an old pickup truck that sped by and then left him for dead. He had a helmet on but was still out of work for months.
if we got to $4.00 per gallon at a slower pace it probably wouldn't of been as news worthy all this talk about "expensive" gas. Habits in the US are most easily driven by economics - not many people are going to scale back for the benefit of the planet but they will do it to save money.
I see the Honda Civic is out selling every car/truck in the US for the month of May. GM today announced they might cut the Hummer out of their line up.
I'm actually impressed that there were no bike fatalities in DC, considering all the couriers, messengers, etc. Heck, in 2006 I almost scored a 2-for-1 on bicyclists. I was waiting to turn left on green, but couldn't because of oncoming traffic. Well as soon as I got a break I went, only to have two college kids on bikes come up and try to pass me on the left! :surprise:
Once, while stopped at a red light, someone on a bike tried to "split the lanes" and whacked the rearview mirror on my pickup. And once, someone else tried to do it in a traffic circle, lost her balance, and had to throw her arm out to brace herself against my truck!
Honestly, between all the inattentive drivers out there, and the bikers who think they're indestructible, or that the rules don't apply to them, I'm surprised there are so few fatalities!
$4 gas means earn about $6 to buy a gallon. Buy the gallon with what you take home. Some small part of the $6 is not actually a tax collected by the gov't. The gov't has to love this. And people quitting jobs because it didn't justify the gas costs? Expected for non-profit jobs. High school and college kids can't find summer jobs because nobody can afford to eat at restaurants anymore. 6 Flags is cutting ticket prices by $10 to get people to travel to their park. Anybody working extra hours or a second job to pay for gas? I still remember when I couldn't afford a car and walked to two different jobs for 4 months to save for a car. One was 48 hrs a week and a half mile away, and the other job was 20 hrs a week and 2 miles from home. And no such thing as a holiday or vacation. I think we will all manage but driving is now cutting into vacations, visits, eating out, etc. Saving for the future is happening in fewer households due to $4 gas.
thanks for spreading fear and discouraging people considering riding a bike
that's a big help
Might as well tell people to never swim in the ocean because someone got attacked by a Great White, or to never fly because planes can crash or give up cheese burgers because they're bad for your health.......
Riding isn't just healthy for the planet, it's healthy for the heart.
reminds me of 'a long time ago, in a galaxy far away' stats like that were posted. i don't want to be the first one to cross back over that line, and neither do the hosts. :P
just to tighten the screws a bit more, ct is going to raise the gas tax 3-4 cents and 7.7 cents for diesel on July 1.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
aspesisteve says, "Riding isn't just healthy for the planet, it's healthy for the heart."
Note about that: Since my Segway broke in November and I have been riding my "electric assist" bike - I have lost 15 pounds and my blood pressure has dropped about 20 points.
I'm never going back to a 100% car commute if I can help it.
if you have a bike friendly place to ride, that's great. i know plenty of people who have had major injuries on their bicycles. when my student sister couldn't afford a car, she used her bike to get around. one time she went over the hood of a car that pulled out perpendicular to her path. she ended up getting her phd, so i guess no brain damage. over the long weekend 2 guys from work were hit by an impaired driver at 7am on saturday. luckily for them there was a witness as they ended up off the road below grade and the driver took off.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
"I still remember when I couldn't afford a car and walked to two different jobs for 4 months to save for a car."
I never had it that tough, but I did get a part-time job in high school to pay for my old '77 Buick. Unfortunately, GM products of the 1970s being what they were, the car was forever costing me money.
Everything I made at the job went to keep the car running. But I only used the car to get to the job. So what was the point?
Unfortunately, at 18 I wasn't smart enough to ditch the car and the job at the same time, and just enjoy my youth. Thought I was being responsible, and preparing myself for adulthood, and all that .....
"thanks for spreading fear and discouraging people considering riding a bike that's a big help."
Hey, the truth is what it is. I don't berate my M.D. for warning me that if I have unprotected sex with various women, I might catch a disease. Likewise, if someone says that riding a bike among rush hour drivers might result in a devastating accident, I don't criticize -- especially if he backs up his claim with specific examples.
Bottom line: The risk of bicycle commuting is death or injury. The reward is saving $30 per week on gasoline. That's a bad ratio. .
Comments
Very true! But with gas at $4/gal., I suspect that the only place most folks are going is their back yard. And that's a real big change in the American lifestyle.
Speaking of changes, who else here agrees with me that RVs are going the way of the dodo bird?
Those high-dollar RVs are going to be housing for the poor some day - ala Cousin Eddie in "Xmas Vacation."
Living in Harmony With Cockroaches">link title
Living in Harmony With Ants
Juan Campos was apparently drunk and had fallen asleep at the wheel before crashing into the race in Monterrey, Mexico, police investigator Jose Alfredo Rodriguez said.
A photograph taken by a city official shows the horrifying moment of impact. The force of the collision sent bicyclists and equipment high into the air and Matamoros newspaper El Mañana described children crying, women shouting for help and men trying to lynch Campos before police arrived to arrest him.
Killed in the crash was Alejandro Alvarez, 37, of Monterrey.
Campos told police he was an American citizen from Brownsville, Texas. The U.S. consulate could not immediately confirm that.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Should I post a pic of the seven car pileup in Florida a few days ago, and point out that driving is "unsafe?"
You are not serious with that statement, are you? Are you seriously comparing using a bike for a commute to the accident referenced in the above story? Tell me that was a joke...................PLEASE....................
My first new car was a 1968 VW bug. It had a 12 gallon tank.
I could fill it up when close to empty for about $2.50
The car cost $1900 new.
During the gas wars they would pump your gas, check your oil, give green stamps and some times a plastic handle steak knife.
The reason they take notice is because there is a resultant X.X% decrease in tax revenues. It's all fun and games until a pothole needs to be fixed.
Yeah, back in those days I'd usually just leave the car running. I delivered in a fairly safe community that was mainly single family homes with driveways, where I could pull practically right up to the front door. Now for places like townhouses, condos, apartments, or businesses, where the car would be in a parking lot, or where it was more likely someone could just walk by and hop in the car, I would shut it off.
The main reason I'd leave the car running though, was to save wear and tear on the starter. Also, I don't think a car really uses THAT much fuel while idling. Plus, until I got the Intrepid, the cars I drove all had carburetors, where you don't really save much fuel, if any, in turning the car off for a minute or two and then having to restart, versus just letting it idle during that time.
I delivered pizzas from 1996 to 2001. If I had to go back to doing it, I'd definitely turn the car off every time. Unfortunately, this area has gone a bit south with regards to crime and violence these days. It's not like Compton in a gangsta rap video or anything, but I just wouldn't want to tempt fate. Plus, I guess I'm just older now, more conservative, less willing to take a chance.
I haven't had a pizza delivered in ages. For all I know, some places might already be slapping on a delivery surcharge. Actually, when I worked for Little Caesar's, they tried that once. They were arguing that because of having drivers, their insurance costs went way up, so they started slapping on a $1.00 delivery charge. Of which the driver didn't see a penny. And naturally, that would make some customers give a cheaper tip, since they're getting whacked with a surcharge. Surprisingly though, most customers understood.
In past years people put speakers behind their grill. Imagine a speaker that starts playing loud screeching of tires like a car coming up behind them too fast and is trying to stop and sliding into them!
I notice in the picture posted of the bicycles being hit by the car that one of the helmets is flying through the air--it came off!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Hey.... if someone getting hit by a car gives some vicarious thrill, enjoy.... I don't get it, but it is still a free country.
Gary, you have a penchant for posting things that have only a peripheral meaning for the subject at hand and saying, "see, see, there there, see, see !!!!"
You know how many times "people who have no control of their cars" slam into crowds of bikers? Probably about once every five hundred billion bike miles or so.
Anyone riding a bike for a commute (have they a lick of common sense) knows that cars are their most critical danger. That's why I ride almost exclusively on the sidewalk.
Remember though: The levels of bikers getting killed by cars is far far less per capita than people dying in car wrecks. It is still far safer to ride a bike than to drive a car.
You don't need to post snap shots of the bikers hogging the road. They know they have the right of way over cars and take advantage of it. Most of them who habitually do that are fools. But they make up a very small portion of bike riders who commute on their bikes.
Riding for your commute is different for most people than riding for pleasure.
That is exactly correct.
I imagine Ahnold is getting a bit anxious with the sales of so many econoboxes. He not only loses the higher sales tax revenue from the SUVs not being purchased. He is losing 46 cents per gallon. That can be a lot when you go from a 15 MPG SUV to a 30 MPG Civic. Not to mention the 50% less sales tax. That could be as much as $2000 per vehicle sale. Then the license fee each year will be less on the smaller car. Yet the road usage and congestion is the same. I guess he will have to dig into his deep pockets and make up the shortfall.
I'm not sure about the meaning of your post so I'll assume it's positive since I personally don't get a thrill. My concern is that helmets aren't supposed to come off!
I know of several people through the decades killed either running or riding their bikes along roads without trails or sidewalks.
I watched a car run into a group of pedestrians of about 30 walking across a 4-lane street near University of Cincinnati campus. The impact was lower than 35 but he hit a few of the nursing class girls. This was before cell phones. I drove up the road looking for a phone and a Cincy policeman was at the intersection. I told him and he looked at me like he didn't believe me that there was an accident down the hill in front to of the hospital.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The mere presence of the bicycles, or even the car for that matter, is not what brought about this horrific event. It was the behavior of that driver.
Follow the laws, employ safe practices, maybe sprinkle in a little common courtesy (even if it, gasp, inconveniences you a little) and bicycles on the streets are no more dangerous than cars. 'Tis unfortunate that courtesy is becoming somewhat less common.
I am not sure of your motive in posting all these made up statistics. Do you have any links that would back up your statements. You ride on the sidewalk which would be my choice if their is not a dedicated bike trail. I have personally seen as many accidents with bicycles and motorcycles as I have auto accidents.
In 1999, there were 750 bicycling fatalities and 51,000 bicycling injuries resulting from traffic crashes in the United States. While these numbers continue to decrease from year to year, bicyclist fatalities still account for 2 percent of all traffic fatalities as well as 2 percent of all traffic injuries.
http://www.massbike.org/info/statistics.htm
I seriously doubt that bicycling amounts to 2% of the miles driven in the USA. Which will prove that riding a bicycle on a road that is primarily used by cars to more dangerous than being in a car. You usually get your facts closer to accurate than this post.
Valid concern, but that does appear to be a rather severe impact. Not sure any helmet is designed to withstand that force.
You are right I am. I always am on the side of caution. You cannot be too careful riding a bike. Think about this. What if the EPA decided to force the bike manufacturers to make a bicycle as safe as they do cars? Why do I need airbags surrounding me in a car and nothing to protect me except a plastic helmet when riding a bike, sharing the same road?
Read what I said: I said the times people on bikes were killed by drivers who (in YOUR WORDS) "were not in control of their car" was very low. There are no stats for that, but I stand by my estimate.
Some of those biking deaths are not related to crashes with cars, and many of the injuries are not car-related either.
From one of your posted links:
As of 2002: Since 1932, 47,000 "pedalcyclists" have been killed. More than that die every SINGLE year in car crashes.
Pedestrians are killed far far more than bikers. Of the total "people killed while on a roadway but not in a car" numbers, pedestrians make up about 85% to 87% in most recent years. The rest are bikers, roller bladers, skateboarders, etc.
Nothing done on a road is without risk. I personally know far far many more people who have died in car crashes than in pedestrian or bike accidents. Don't you?
UPDATE:
I found some more current stats. In 2006, Arizona led the country in bikers killed per capita. 1.42 deaths per 1 million vehicle miles traveled. That's pretty darn low !! Now you see why I ride on the sidewalks !!!???!!!!!!
Here is that page with some other good stats.
AZ bike stats
My point is: It's still far safer to bike that to walk. And far far fewer people die on bikes than in car wrecks.
"The "typical" bicyclist killed on our roads is a sober male over 16 not wearing a helmet riding on a major road between intersections in an urban area on a summer evening when hit by a car."
A very high percentage of cyclists' brain injuries can be prevented by a helmet, estimated at anywhere from 45 to 88 per cent.
Anyone who rides a bike or a motorcycle is just being a FOOL if they do not don a helmet.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Promoting caution, or safety, and fear mongering are very different. The former is the more reasoned, rational, somewhat objective approach. The latter preys upon emotionalism and the lowest common denominator of fear. Methinks the latter is the more desirable way to accomplish a given goal. I'm willing to assume that your goal is for more safe transportation for all concerned.
It would seem to me unreasonable to expect that any machine should be likewise safe as another machine of very different design. It would seem much more appropriate to make the operation of any given machine as safe as the operation of that machine can be. Ergo helmets and reflectors for bicycles, ABS and airbags for cars.
See, things aren't dangerous. Bicycles aren't dangerous. Cars aren't dangerous. Not paying attention, exceeding posted speed limits, not adjusting to situations, circumstances, or environment, engaging in an activity while impaired or in the wrong frame of mind, those are dangerous. Unfortunately we cannot idiot-proof the world.
Yes, you should. But don't forget to compare the death and injury caused by the car pileup with that caused by the car/bicycle accident. Bikes don't have seat belts and airbags.
I think the picture says it all. Bicyclists don't stand a chance against a car. Yes, accidents are rare, but it only takes one to ruin your life. Just ask Stephen King -- although, to be fair, he was walking when a car hit him, not biking.
How many of us are willing to risk death or paralysis on a daily basis just to save money on gasoline?
"Bicycles aren't dangerous. Cars aren't dangerous. Not paying attention, exceeding posted speed limits ..... those are dangerous."
This statement is correct. However, it leaves out the salient point that a car driver's inattention causes danger TO a bicyclist; that is, even the most careful, attentive cyclist can't compensate for a distracted driver. The bike rider bears the consequences of other people's actions.
Basically, when you ride a bicycle in traffic, you're saying, "I trust you with my life," to a bunch of strangers whizzing by you in 3,000 lb. chunks of steel. Again, how many of us are willing to do that?
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How many of us are willing to risk death or paralysis on a daily basis just to save money on gasoline?
So based on this, walking is pretty darn risky too - so ban that.
As to risking death or paralysis, just about everything you do once you get out of bed (including getting out of bed) increases your risk. And if you are serious about BOTH saving gasoline, AND reducing risk, then mass transit is the way to go.
Freedom of choice is not a bad thing; as I said before, just about every activity comes with a cost/benefit ratio. If for you riding a bike carries too high a potential cost, then don't do it, however it is still a viable choice for many.
I can buy an electric 3 wheeler and get it licensed in CA as a motorcycle. If I added a fourth wheel it would have to have all the safety requirements of any other car.
I put the bulk of the responsibility of maintaining control of any vehicle on the driver. It seems to me that many people expect the vehicle to be invulnerable no matter how stupid they drive.
So how can the regulators justify allowing an unprotected bicycle or motorcycle share the same road as a fully protected car?
They took several small good handling cars from the 1980s that would get 50 MPG and loaded them so far down with safety equipment that it is rare for them to get over 35 MPG. Yet the bicycle is about the same as it was 75 years ago.
If I am willing to take the risk of driving a small car that gets 50 MPG without all the safety equipment, how is that any different than my deciding to ride a completely unprotected bicycle?
Gasoline exceeding $4 a gallon represents ``a structural change, not just a cyclical change,'' CEO Rick Wagoner told reporters at the annual shareholders' meeting.
At Hummer, ``we're considering all options from a complete revamp to a partial or complete sale of the brand,'' Wagoner said.
``It is significant, but this is a late reaction to changing market dynamics,'' said one automotive consultant. ``The plans really should have been in place a number of years ago.''
That last sentence is a candidate for understatement of the year!
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That is exactly right. Those that feel the risk is worth it have my blessing. I have done it and was not comfortable most of the time. All it takes is a little loose gravel or sand going around a corner to flip you under the wheels of a car. When it is raining forget it I am off the bike. I like myself too much to take the risk around big vehicles. Going off road where you fall you skin up your shins is no big deal. I had two motorcycle racing buddies get killed by drivers pulling out in front of them. You all that think it is safer than riding in a car or SUV have at it. The statistics are not in your favor. I'll do my two wheel riding where there is no traffic.
Actually, the stats are pretty close. As of the 2006 statistics, it was safer to ride a bike (measured by deaths per 100 VMT) than to be in a vehicle in about half the states in the union. (The USA average for vehicle was 1.41)
See this page
And even MORE people are going to bikes.
And almost all bikers who die suffer head trauma injuries - and in most cases the risk can be reduced greatly by wearing a helmet.
Wearing your helmet is the number one thing you can do to reduce your risk of death while biking. Treating cars like they are assassins is another good safety trick.
I happen to think that riding on the sidewalk is a good safety trick also.
The Indiana Law Enforcement officers had a bike ride to honor a fallen hero last year. There were about 15 or 20, mostly police officers, riding east on US 40 towards Indianapolis. They were followed by a 14' box truck with flashers going 10 mph or so. They were in the right lane of a 4 lane divided hwy. A semi rig hit the box truck from behind at 70 mph as the driver was asleep at 11AM. Almost everybody ended up in the hospital and a few didn't make it. They thought they were doing everything in their power to be safe.
Put me in a 4000 lb steel box while I'm still alive and I'll pay the price of gas. Biking these days is for neighborhoods and trails and even that serves up plenty of injuries.
One friend of mine fell off a 27" bike and has a permanent deformed shoulder blade that sticks up a inch on one side. Another friend knew someone that was deliberately hit from behind in the head by a steel side mirror on an old pickup truck that sped by and then left him for dead. He had a helmet on but was still out of work for months.
if we got to $4.00 per gallon at a slower pace it probably wouldn't of been as news worthy all this talk about "expensive" gas. Habits in the US are most easily driven by economics - not many people are going to scale back for the benefit of the planet but they will do it to save money.
I see the Honda Civic is out selling every car/truck in the US for the month of May.
GM today announced they might cut the Hummer out of their line up.
that's a step in the right direction.
Once, while stopped at a red light, someone on a bike tried to "split the lanes" and whacked the rearview mirror on my pickup. And once, someone else tried to do it in a traffic circle, lost her balance, and had to throw her arm out to brace herself against my truck!
Honestly, between all the inattentive drivers out there, and the bikers who think they're indestructible, or that the rules don't apply to them, I'm surprised there are so few fatalities!
that's a big help
Might as well tell people to never swim in the ocean because someone got attacked by a Great White, or to never fly because planes can crash or give up cheese burgers because they're bad for your health.......
Riding isn't just healthy for the planet, it's healthy for the heart.
i don't want to be the first one to cross back over that line, and neither do the hosts. :P
just to tighten the screws a bit more, ct is going to raise the gas tax 3-4 cents and 7.7 cents for diesel on July 1.
Note about that: Since my Segway broke in November and I have been riding my "electric assist" bike - I have lost 15 pounds and my blood pressure has dropped about 20 points.
I'm never going back to a 100% car commute if I can help it.
i know plenty of people who have had major injuries on their bicycles.
when my student sister couldn't afford a car, she used her bike to get around.
one time she went over the hood of a car that pulled out perpendicular to her path.
she ended up getting her phd, so i guess no brain damage.
over the long weekend 2 guys from work were hit by an impaired driver at 7am on saturday. luckily for them there was a witness as they ended up off the road below grade and the driver took off.
I never had it that tough, but I did get a part-time job in high school to pay for my old '77 Buick. Unfortunately, GM products of the 1970s being what they were, the car was forever costing me money.
Everything I made at the job went to keep the car running. But I only used the car to get to the job. So what was the point?
Unfortunately, at 18 I wasn't smart enough to ditch the car and the job at the same time, and just enjoy my youth. Thought I was being responsible, and preparing myself for adulthood, and all that .....
Hey, the truth is what it is. I don't berate my M.D. for warning me that if I have unprotected sex with various women, I might catch a disease. Likewise, if someone says that riding a bike among rush hour drivers might result in a devastating accident, I don't criticize -- especially if he backs up his claim with specific examples.
Bottom line: The risk of bicycle commuting is death or injury. The reward is saving $30 per week on gasoline. That's a bad ratio.
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That depends. What was her degree in?