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Comments
Yeah...the TL-S held it's own and the ONLY categories it bested both cars in (performance-wise) was braking from 60-0, and lateral acceleration. The question arises, would the numbers be different if all three were outfitted with the same tires (tires can make a huge difference).
However, flat out straight-line acceleration...the TL-S came in last...the IS350 literally crushed it by almost a full second in 0-60 and around the 1/4 mile mark, the TL-S was behind the IS350 by almost 2 full seconds.
So...like I said before, the only thing that will hold the Genesis back will be it's weight. However, even with it's weight...I bet it'll still give the sedans in it's class a run for their money.
0.91g on skidpad and 66 mph through slalom, yeah, I'd like to see how would the Genesis "crush" those figures.
TL-S was behind the IS350 by almost 2 full seconds.
14.3 seconds - 13.5 seconds = almost 2 full seconds? Dude, either you need an eye exam or your math skill has be degrading tremendously...
The bottom line is that although it is FWD but it has the performance to hang with the RWD small sports sedans. Given the weight, size and horsepower of the Genesis, performance wise my money is on the TL-S.
Does Hyundai have experience with rear-wheel drive sedans? My concern is driving in heavy snow and ice.
However...YOU are the one that needs the eye exam, there's nothing wrong with MY math...if you go back to my post I said the IS350, NOT the G35. Last time I checked...14.3 vs. 12.7 is ALMOST 2 full seconds difference (4/10ths of a second away from it to be exact).
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...the cars the TL-S is compared to are not small. That would be the IS250 and Acura TSX. However, I do admit that the TL-S is a fine FWD sport sedan and have said so already.
Uh... excuse me but I failed to see where on that sheet says IS350 ran a 1/4-mile in 12.7 seconds.
Here's your original statement: "IS350 literally crushed it by almost a full second in 0-60 and around the 1/4 mile mark, the TL-S was behind the IS350 by almost 2 full seconds. "
IS350: 13.5 seconds
G35: 13.9 seconds
TL-S: 14.3 seconds
Eye exam? Yeah, you should make an appointment right now...
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...the cars the TL-S is compared to are not small
Sigh... You are just not getting what I was trying to say. It doesn't matter what the TL-S' size is but the important thing is that it is able to hang with the other small RWD sports sedans. If that's the case, the Genesis would have to be able to hang with the G35 and IS350 performance wise in order to be able to hang with the TL-S. In mathematical terms:
If TL-S = G35 = IS350, the only way that Genesis = TL-S is true is when Genesis = G35 = IS350.
Genesis = G35 = IS350 in performance? Yeah right...
So...anyway, no eye appointments needed.
It would be true IF TL-S = G35 = IS350, but that is not the case. Even R&T said it...while the TL-S held it's own, overall...it came in 3rd place compared to the other two...last I checked...3rd place doesn't equal 2nd or 1st place. In mathematical terms.
Uh...
You'll need to read that article again, the TL-S beat out the G35 and came in 2nd place.
Remember when we were talking about the TL and the Azera?
1/4 miles times for Azera
Now...if a TL-S pulls the 1/4 mile in 14.3 secs. @ 99.9 mph and the Azera pulls it 14.8 secs. @ 97.6 mph. Why would you find it so inconceivable for me to post that I pulled away from a regular TL??? Heck, the Azera with less power (263 hp and just over 3600 lbs) and more weight is right behind the TL-S, you don't think the Genesis is capable with more power and a little more weight??? I'm curious to understand your logic.
Like I said before, in straight line performance between the TL-S and Genesis it'll be a crapshoot (or a drivers' race). Well, at least for the 0-60 that'll be the case and I wouldn't be surprised if the Genesis pulls away at the 1/4-mile mark given its higher horsepower.
However, you can look back at all my posts, I was never concentrated on the straight line performance itself. What I was questioning is whether or not the Genesis will have the driving dynamics to hang with the TL-S through curves and on twisty roads. 0.91g on skidpad and 66 mph through slalom are very impressive figures, I will be very surprised if the Genesis is able to top that.
My logic? My logic is that straight line performance isn't everything.
Anyway...I truly think weight will be the main issue here. If you look at the Azera, it could be lighter if Hyundai used a bit more aluminum in the build of the car, but used steel instead. I don't think that trend will change much with the Genesis. However, with that in mind...I think the Genesis will be much more of a dynamic performer than anyone is willing to give it credit for. Will it post skid pad #'s of the TL-S...probably not, will it come close...maybe. Considering the weight issue, that would impressive in itself. It would make me wonder just what it would be capable of IF the Genesis were as svelte as the TL-S.
It's about the total package to me.
Yes, if you want to drag, it's a good thing but remember weight is everything so 30 HP less but with 400 lbs less weight, the 1/4 mile goes to slim fast contender (given a similar power/torque ratio).
It would be like me saying that my Nissan Armada can't hang with a Toyota Tacoma X-Runner. Well duh, obviously my Armada has a different purpose than an X-runner!
Perhaps we should start comparing say a Nissan 350z to the handling of the TLS, who wins then? Again, different purpose built vehicles!
-mike
Even if folks want to continue, the only trim line worth comparing to the TL-S is the mid-trm V6 Genesis sedan (and not the V8 on the Gensis):
Genesis V6 - RWD; Acura TL S-Type - FWD
Horsepower: Genesis V6 by 4
Torque: Genesis V6 by 8
Tranny: Genesis 6 speed auto only | TL S-Type 5 speed auto and 6 speed manual
Weight: auto to auto comparo TL by 74 pounds
Passenger Vol: Genesis by 11.5 cu. ft (that's huge)
Truck vol: Genesis by 3.4 cu. ft
BUT, like Mike and others mentioned, these two vehicles serve different purposes
I'm still contemplating the coupe V6 w/6MT and Brembos.
-mike
what the hell is this guy smoking..
The TL Type-S 6MT runs 0-60 in 5.5 sec and 14.1 sec@ 101 mph according to the latest review from Car&Driver. Even the regular TL 6MT(2004~ 2006) gets 14.3 sec@ 99 mph. The regular TL 6MT will walk all over the Azera. It's not even in the same competition.. Now if you are talking Azera beating the regular TL 5AT would be acceptable as the TL Auto tranny cars have tall gear ratios. The TL Type-S and regular TL 6MT are very competiting cars. There is very small difference....
As for the Genesis, I would say only the V8 version *can* beat the TL Type-S 6MT in the accelerations. The V6 3.8 Genesis version........ isnt enough to take out the TL Type-S 6MT.
However, you can look back at all my posts, I was never concentrated on the straight line performance itself. What I was questioning is whether or not the Genesis will have the driving dynamics to hang with the TL-S through curves and on twisty roads. 0.91g on skidpad and 66 mph through slalom are very impressive figures, I will be very surprised if the Genesis is able to top that.
My logic? My logic is that straight line performance isn't everything.
louiswei, you nailed it. You got the concept totally right. Nice job. Btw, even better, the Type-S 6MT was measured 0.93 g on the 300ft skid pad testing by Car&Driver. More props.
I'll take..... a V8 Technology package with this set of wheels and slam it down.
Or how about this...
I think some of you may have seen these pics before. They are very nice looking.
.
My reason for posting what I posted was simply this...the Azera is capable of being not far off from the acceleration numbers of the TL-S (which numbers I got from a R&T data sheet...link is a few posts back). The orignal argument was that the Azera shouldn't be able to hang with a TL and the poster couldn't accept the fact that I had made the statement. I had clearly posted that it was the REGULAR TL not the TL-S
In terms of acceleration, I brought this up to point to show that with the numbers of the TL-S as compared to the numbers of the Azera...why would it be so hard to believe that the Genesis MIGHT be capable of out running the TL-S (auto or manual)??? I can't speak in terms of handling as nobody has put a Genesis (sedan or coupe) through the paces. I can understand if the Genesis were to have some regular tranny in it, but the V-6 version will have the Aisin 6 speed auto tranny and the V-8 versions will get the ZF 6 speed tranny, not exactly weak run of the mill trannies.
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You must have the G confused with the M.
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The G doesn't have that great cornering anyway...
The G doesn't have that great cornering anyway...
Scoops!!! Did YOU actually post this! :surprise:
Yea.... Got prob with that? :P
My prediction tells me that in terms of handling it goes like this:
Genesis Coupe > TL Type-S 6MT > G35 > G37
but then that could change once I test drive the Genesis Coupe...... I donno.
The vehicle in the concept photos blew me away. I was especially impressed by four elements:
1. The amazing-looking front grille
2. The even more amazing looking front headlights
3. The sleek fog lights
4. The twin, flat tailpipes.
In the newest photos that I am seeing here, ALL FOUR of those elements have changed between now and then, and none of them changed for the better, in my opinion.
- The new grille looks strange, and I don't mean in a good way.
- The new headlights and foglights look...well, ordinary. They are nothing that would grab anyone's attention.
- The tailpipes are nice, but not as nice as the concept version.
Color me very disappointed in this one, if this is the way it turns out.
Actually...no I don't, just surprised to be honest.
You think the G35 outhandles the G37?
When have you ever known a company to produce a vehicle as it was seen as a concept?
Okay...the front grille..pretty much the same too (except for the lower grille).
The headlights really aren't changed (look again).
Not sure what "sleek" fog lights you're referring to, there are no fog lights on the concept...just some chrome trim around the opening where fog lights would go. Don't believe me...take a look here: Genesis Coupe Concept Front View
The tail pipes are pretty much the same as well, which isn't a flat shape at all (you sure you're looking at the Genesis Coupe Concept?) Genesis Coupe Concept Rear View
Anyway...the lines of the car itself are pretty much intact except for the lower sides where the concept has air vents for the rear brakes and the production doesn't. the other biggest difference is the carbon fiber hood on the concept with the vents and the production gets a regular hood.
Well...for Hyundai to produce the coupe in the form you see as the concept, one would pay a hefty premium and maybe (if Hyundai's smart) they'll make those upgrades available for that premium price. However, for Hyundai to bring this car to market and fit it in the value niche that they've established themselves in...you're simply not going to see the concept model as a production car. Sorry, but I'm sure if you want the look...there will be aftermarket parts available for one to jazz it up any way you might want.
Who knows...maybe Hyundai will get a wild hair up their wazoo and produce a version that looks like the concept and shoehorn the 4.6 V-8 in it and call it the GT. Wish hard enough and if you're a good boy, Santa might put one under the tree for you in a couple years!
I wasn't referring to the coupe, but to the sedan. Forgive me if I posted this in the wrong area, as I am new to this forum. I thought this area was to discuss either the Genesis coupe or sedan.
In any case, the photos I am referring to are from the New York Auto Show. The link is here, and if you click on the lead photo you will see a gallery of high-res pictures:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/04/new-york-auto-show-hyundai-starts-over-with-t- he-genesis/
I understand that concept cars often don't end up looking like production cars. It's just that in this instance, all the elements that I loved in the concept car were changed for the production version I see pictured on the Inside Line page for the Genesis sedan (or the "very close to production" version, as I'm under the impression that it's still not finalized).
I don't know enough about cars to know if it's even humanly possible to make functional headlights, foglights and tailpipes like the ones pictures on the link above (they are quite sleek, after all). Maybe it isn't, and I was just being a dreamer all along. The grille ... eh, I just don't like this new grille at all. One of the nice features of the concept grille was the mesh behind it, and that is also gone.
Is it still a nice car? Sure, it's nice, but it's not "I gotta have it" nice in my book.
Anyway...it's hard not to love the ideas and elements when you see them on a concept car...it's all about fantasy and drawing attention, but also applying ideas for the future. You ask if it's possible to make headlights like the ones on the concept Genesis Sedan. Anything is possible, the real question is can it be financialy feasible at this point. There is a lot of work going on with LED headlights and I think at some point, that will be the way companies go.
I understand about the grille, however...there is a site online that will be selling grilles for the Genesis Sedan Korean Auto Imports
I can respect your opinion about the Genesis not being an "I gotta have it." car. In some cases pictures online don't do a car justice. It definitely looks better in person, I just wish I had been able to get a taste of the interior from actually sitting in it and not a peek from 15-20 feet away. There have been posters that have had the opportunity to sit in one and all of them have posted that the interior is wonderfully done.
Is the Genesis the end all, be all sedan...absolutely not. The fact that it's a Hyundai and looks like it does with the performance that it may be capable of...well, that makes it quite a bit more appealing when you look at it in those terms. I can honestly say, being a Hyundai fan...I like the Genesis, but...it hasn't made me say that I'm willing to give up my paid for '06 Azera to take on a car note for one. However...I WILL be taking a test drive!!!!
it would be about 32K USD as a baseline
this is from reliable information source.
how do you think about this?
IMO, 32K for 3.8L V6 looks reasonable. doesn't it ?
A competitive pricing of V6 3.8L at $32K - $33K was simply from a quote of personal opinion of one Hyundai dealer from Florida, who is visiting Hyundai in Korea with other dealers. They will discuss the pricing with Hyundai next week.
If they want to "appear" to keep their commitment at "starting under 30K", I think they'll need to strip down the standard features and offer them as options. Regardless, I think the V6 3.8 FULLY optioned will be in the 38K range -- or about 6-8K more than an Azera. The V8 version fully optioned will probably run about 44K. Just my predictions.