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Comments
I only had a short window of time so I didn't comparison test the other vehicles. They had the exact vehicle I want right inside the tent: V-6 Tech Titanium Gray w/black interior. I can't wait to get it!
On that note, another area which may not have been covered extensively yet - the fit and finish on the Genesis is superb. Certainly Hyundai has done their homework to acheive the highest standard possible. The paint job, also, was nothing short of spectacular.
How can they justify raising the price when already their having problems?
Go ask the your local dealer. Hyundai certainly isn't dictating the markup.
That's just the way the capitalistic marketplace works. Just think of it this way: The Genesis is a 2009 vehicle. Come January 1, you can purchase one for MSRP. But it you want one EARLY -- three to six months -- then you can pay an extra $3000 or so. For some, it's certainly worth it. For me, I'll just wait until January or next spring. I can certainly be patient. I would like to hear all of the crash test results and owner opinions and reliability reports anyway. So, it would actually be better to wait. No rush for me.
But that's the price one pays for being an early adopter.
This is not to knock the Genesis at all.
I know that I'll be licking my chops when I get a new Genesis that has a MSRP of about 36k for 29k or less. I'd imagine the v8 models will then be selling for around the now 33k entry price point.
Patience is a virtue. You used car loyalists will do even better. :P
I am seeing expectations of $7000-$10000 off MSRP in a year or so. If the Genesis has $3000-$3500 total markup (including holdback), is there an expectation of a $4000-$6000 rebate?
Again, I am just curious. The largest rebate that HMA is offering right now is $3500 (SF LTD), and if I use the Veracruz as a baseline, then I think it would be very difficult to expect a $4000-$6000 rebate on the Genesis.
I do think that one will be able to buy the Genesis at or slightly below invoice by January or February. But I think the idea of hanging in for a HUGE rebate is a wild goose chase. Looking for a used Genesis towards the end of next year may be the ticket though.
Correction Backy, Ford now has the Flex which offers 3 rows and lots of room. However, in terms of how it looks...rather than the traditional crossover like the Acadia/Outloook, CX-9, etc...the Flex looks like a station wagon on steriods. What I have seen of it thus far, not a badly appointed one.
Then after the deal was made, they had to go to a dealer 45 miles away to trade one of their in-stock models for the model I wanted (color and trim combo).
which is a good sumation of Hyundai (and other Korean (and American) brands) problems - and it has nothing to do with the supposed 'value' of the cars. What amounts to a 20-30% discount is what the car buyer expects to pay for a 'Korean' or 'American' product( 10-20% below invoice) Hyundai would be better off inflating the price 10 grand or so, just so the buyer 'thinks' he/she got a good deal when it sells for a large discount - the Buick approach. Or they could have not made the mistake of calling it a Hyundai in the first place - maybe they could have avoided at least some of this kind of problem.
Bad economic climate compounded with poor and mediocre FE ratings and a brandname with a checkered past all would seem to conspire against what otherwise is a solid effort on Hyundai's part. Their timing is awful, lets hope what you predict doesn't come true - for Hyundai's sake - the Genesis might just have a short life.
I doubt it would happen, ever, but, if and when that time comes, you'd have to hook me up with those kind of deals
Come again?
50%-200% on items that they are selling everyday?"
That's not true! :sick: Costco marks up all their items by 14%, not 50% - 200%.
When you deal on cars, it is by referral only. Costco gets a fee from the
dealer but has no control over what the dealer tries to get you to pay. :surprise:
I went to a similar event at the MN state fairgrounds several years back when Mercedes was introducing the ML. Same thing. Long waits. Very short course. Lack of organization. So I think it is not an exclusively Hyundai problem.
About the car: I was very impressed with fit and finish and driving dynamics. I drove the v-6 and the v-8. The v-8 may have been a preproduction car based on the wheels. I didn't find a marked difference in the driving dynamics between the two (I expected a big difference based on what I had read). I curiously observed no difference in the leather seating (again, I expected a noticeable difference).
Good stereo. I cranked a cd with the doors closed and my brother standing outside could not hear it, so the insulation is good.
I had no trouble breaking the rear tires free on the skid pad (which is concerning in snow country).
I comparison drove the E550 Mercedes. The Genesis was every bit as nice inside, and much bigger inside. The Genesis leaned much less when pushed hard into corners and felt faster. The Mercedes was supposedly a $68k car. Not as nice. I was very impressed.
I just came off lease on an 2005 STS4 (completely loaded all wheel drive Cadillac). I loved that car but the residual was too high to not take a bath if I bought it. I may get another (they lease pretty well). But I like the Genesis. I wish it had the adaptive cruise, which worked great on my Caddy. Lots of other toys though, such as the back up camera, DVD, rear window screen, etc.
I really like the car and am leaning toward a v-8 tech whenever they arrive.
As for CAFE ratings - I think you'll find that the Toyota and Honda fleet averages have led the pack for many years now. My point is that once 'economical' cars are falling victim saleswise to a new definition of what 'economical' really is and this has happened to your Azera as well as my Avalon. Long live the 4 banger and the econobox !
But in all honesty, it's not the FE ratings on the larger cars that's changed, it's the mindset of the people that has changed in what they desire to pay for not only a fill-up, but also how far they will get with each fill-up.
I certainly can't wait to see how much more fun breaking the back end loose is with the 4.6!!! :shades:
However, I would like to point out that I am getting grilled about "only" 14% markup after paying a membership fee.
I will give out directions to my dealership to anyone that will pay me a membership fee and a 14% markup!!!! Please do not remove this post, I am NOT soliciting business as this is just making a point!!
I was just sayinig that the Genesis at MSRP is a 7% margin from invoice and that 7% is a VERY small margin for a retail sale compared to the margins that most fixed price retailers charge. Even when you factor in holdback and other incentives that Hyundai has available to earn, you still aren't getting to 14%, or close for that matter.
Matter of fact, if we really want to go down this road, we can start to talk about the higher costs of stocking higher dollar inventory compared to Costco, or extra insurance, and all sorts of good stuff. Makes that 7%-10% even smaller.
It is 101 degrees here today and the fan in my office is out. :sick:
no kidding - how else do you explain Honda offering bought down financing rates (and invoice pricing) on that 4 banger Accord that gets 23 or 24 mpg overall but then telling me that the pissant little Fit was selling at sticker PLUS a $1500.00 'market adjustment'. Maybe something the do with that Fit seeing the plus side of 30 mpg pretty easily while that 'economical' 4 banger Accord gives up 7 or 8 mpg.
This is a terrible time for anybody to try to establish a new car (and correct a spotty reputation) with a car that by no means is going to win any FE awards.
Considering there is no advantage for me to upgrade to a Genesis sedan at this point, my Azera will be fine. However, next year...we may be looking to add the Genesis coupe to our driveway so that my wife can have a car to run around in and we can keep the Outlook parked in the driveway until family excursions occur.
To answer your question - no, don't think the consumer knows much - and definitely think that Hyundai would have better luck selling the Genesis at a higher price but with a higher discount. Kinda like a secretary of mine a while back that was all proud about some $200.00 boots that she paid $100.00 for - told her that what she actually bought was a nice pair of $100.00 boots, and that anybody that gave the $200.00 simply got ripped off....
As this would apply to the Genesis, it simply means that those folks that do pay a premium to be the first owner on the block will simply be screwed big time later (primarily in resale values) IF the car has to be discounted to the degree that many Hyundai buyers seem to think they should.
Hope this helps.
Because of this your point has very little impact as I can't believe any dealer would sell below invoice unless they were somehow making a profit. Please don't start with the gobblety [non-permissible content removed] about rebates, interest rates, trade-ins, etc. Just give me a good straight forward honest answer and maybe your respect will go up on this board. Thanks.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
not so sure about that.
notice recently that the lines at the 'discount' gas stations are getting longer even though the percentage price difference is a lot less than it used to be. Doesn't make any sense does it?
I didn't either, when I stomped on the throttle from a dead start on the wet plastic tarp at the test site. But I would never use that much throttle under real-world conditions. And even though the wheels spun and the rear wagged a bit, the car kept moving forward and ahead. I thought that was pretty darn good for a powerful rear-drive car.
I thought about walking around asking for "backy" after seeing on this board that you would be there, but decided discretion was the better option...
One last thought from the peanut gallery ... I don't think you will ever see those massive mark-downs on this car. It will sell below MSRP. But the manufacturing costs evidenced in the quality materials clearly are not those of a $25k car.
According to chuck1, Hyundai and its numerous engineers and experts from around the world never would have considered the possibility of the Gensis being driven in such heat, as Korean roads (apparently related to the general climate, according to chuck1) are not American roads.
Make sure you have the Hyundai Roadside Service # ready while driving - the car might catch on fire or simply melt.
I'd never buy a new Hyundai. Let the first buyer eat the horrendous depreciation rate. Be smart and patient, and you'll end up with a two year old $15,000 Genesis with maybe 20,000 or 30,000 miles on it.