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Model Days on Lot Vehicle Price*
Mini Cooper 11 $26000
Pirus 12 26436
Honda Fit 15 17614
Dodge
Challanger 20 36067
Audi A/5/55 20 54202
Corolla 25 17298
GENESIS 27 37812
'VW Eos 28 32407
Scion xD 28 16443
Civic 29 19343
* Less customer cash rebate
Hyundai Genesis: First Drive
An ambitious, bargain-priced luxury liner that impresses
Last reviewed: December 2008
Overview
In some ways the Hyundai Genesis is reminiscent of the Lexus LS400, which sent a shockwave through its class in 1989. Like that pioneering premium car, the Genesis is a big, rear-wheel-drive luxury liner that takes aim at established, upscale, $50,000 sedans, but for many thousands of dollars less. The Genesis offers a host of luxury and convenience features, along with a full complement of safety equipment, including eight air bags and standard electronic stability control.
The top versions of the Genesis are powered by Hyundai's first V8, a 4.6-liter, 32-valve engine that produces 375 horsepower. Most Genesis sedans will use the 3.8-liter V6.
We bought a typically equipped V6 version. Its total price came to $36,000.
Initial impression
The Genesis is a roomy, quiet car with a punchy, refined powertrain. Though it handles soundly and rides well, it lacks the final polish that sets true luxury cars apart.
The 290-hp V6 is torquey and refined. The engine comes mated to a smooth-shifting six-speed automatic transmission. This powertrain provides plenty of get up and go, and it averaged a respectable 22 mpg overall. A heavily advertised V8 is available, but the V6 delivers enough performance and it's clearly the better value.
Handling is sound but not sporty. The steering is quick but slightly lacking in feedback. While the ride is quiet and generally well isolated, rough pavement can provoke sharp nervous pitches that are out of place in a car of this class.
The vast cabin provides lots of room to stretch out, front and rear. The steering column rises and retracts automatically when the driver leaves—a feature normally restricted to high-end cars. The controls are blessedly uncomplicated and straightforward. Fit and finish are first class.
CR's take
The Genesis is an impressive car for the price, even if it doesn't quite match the excitement or refinement of the far costlier, similarly sized BMW, Infiniti, and Mercedes-Benz sedans. What you get is essentially the driving experience of a $50,000 to $60,000 car for a lot less than $40,000. Read how it ranks among its peers and other alternatives in the February issue of Consumer Reports, and online in January 2009.
What stands out to me is they are not specifying a particular "class." Is it expected to have a super-pillowy ride and grandpa-like handling since it's priced close to an ES350? Or, are they comparing it to a 5-series that has a better balance of ride and handling for $20,000 more? Ahhh, the compulsiveness of chronic categorization. Good stuff.
Thank you
And that is a BAD thing? :confuse:
Can you show me where it says that in this overview? Am I blind and can't see something CR said, or is this your usual personal bent on the Genesis? :confuse:
Can you show me where it says that in this overview? Am I blind and can't see something CR said, or is this your usual personal bent on the Genesis? :confuse:
How do you interpret this simple sentence?
"While the ride is quiet and generally well isolated, rough pavement can provoke sharp nervous pitches that are out of place in a car of this class."
"While the ride is quiet and generally well isolated, rough pavement can provoke sharp nervous pitches that are out of place in a car ((( of this class. )))"
Again, which particular "class." Super soft with no handling ability like an ES350, which costs about the same as a loaded Genesis 3.8L? Or a masterful, decades-in-development ride/handling balance like a Bimmer 5-series, which costs $20,000 more?
Am I the only one who finds this vagueness a bit entertaining, or a bit curious even?
"While the ride is quiet and generally well isolated, rough pavement can provoke sharp nervous pitches that are out of place in a car of this class."
To me that says in general the suspension is sound but needs a little tweaking/tuning/adjustment to make it even better. It may even mean that in my driving environment, I might not ever experience their reported "problem". Does it mean that the suspension is not competitive as you say? Not by a long shot. In fact, CR's summary seems to indicate that they think this is a pretty darn good car!
Because techinically speaking it can contend with the likes of BMW in terms of acceleration, there are plenty of folks that equate that with meaning it should also handle like one. If folks (those that expect more) would simply look at the Genesis for what it really is...I'm sure you will find the suspension to be more than adequate for daily driving.
The funny thing is...IF Hyundai addressed the suspension and tuned it more like a BMW, I think there would be a lot of folks that would then slam Hyundai for TRYING to create a cheap BMW. It's really a no win situation in the eyes of those people.
Relative to my previous post, I have not taken any trips that required me to park the Genisis for more than a day and I don't have any trips planned until after the first of the year. Also, I have not had a chance to leave the car with the dealer for them to try to rel\plicate the problem. I will keep you posted.
Took a 2,000 mile trip for the Thanksgiving weekend. The Geneisis is a wonderful car for long trips. My fuel mileage was not as good as the trip that I discussed in the previous post but I was stuck with fuel containing 10% ethenol all but one tankful. On that tankful I got 28 MPG. The ethenol fuel, I only got slighty over 25 MPG. What a scam!
A Genesis buyer could be forgiven for expecting great handling plus great ride comfort under any normal road conditions.
Ah yes, the glossy Genesis sales brochure. The purpose of which is to sell cars--not give an impartial opinion. Notice it did not say, "The Genesis provides great ride comfort under any normal road conditions."
How precise? How quiet? How refined? How comfortable? Improved compared to what? How stable? As for "incredible"--there are different ways to interpret that word, aren't there?
However, there have been 3rd party affirmations of the design of the Genesis' suspension being "advanced", e.g. C/D (8/08) said of it: "The suspension, as well, is as sophisticated as they come." So maybe not all of the sales brochure is hyperbole. Just some of it.
I appreciate any info on store, sites etc that offer it and price if you know it.
thanks.
JJ
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYUNDAI-2009-MODELS-FACTORY-IPOD-CABLE_W0QQcmdZVi- ewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ38636QQihZ002QQitemZ120319193437
There have been numerous bad test results, lost test buyers and owners. Yet Hyundai chooses to deny problem,amazing ! I recently had appt. with zone problem expert, by luck he was coming to my dealer to test ride first coupe in area, then he would check my suspension. He did in Hyundai fashion.-never tested my car, or put it on lift, just sent my service mgr. no test ride worthless, stupid,
" it's fine ", that all folks. Complained to main office. Now it's 3 weeks no response.
I need other owners to send me similar stories,please.
Thank you
Note that to be able to control your iPod through your car audio system, you need this special cable. I already had the USB to iPod cable and so bought the AUX connector cable (the same connector as the retractable one that was mentioned here previously), and just having those two cables doesn't work. You need the special cable. Being able to leave the iPod plugged in and controlling it via the car's audio controls is a nice feature.
I'm loving this car. It rides great, is fast, gets 27+ mpg, has all the gadgets and is turning heads. I put the "Genesis" emblem on the truck lid (in place of the H) and it's fun watching the puzzled looks of the guys behind me.
It's horrible that you're having such a bad experience with your Genesis, but thank you for sharing your thoughts about it. After reading posts like yours from many other Genesis owners on this forum and on other forums I am no longer considering the Genesis for my next car purchase. I live in the Chicago area and the roads are terrible. There definitely seems to be a problem with the suspension over rough pavement. Unless I move to the smooth roads of Las Vegas I will not be buying a Genesis.
Those of us who bought Genesis based on advertising fraud will bury Hyundai !
Good luck with your unlikely endeavor.
There are several Genesis owners on that board and there has been plenty of discussion on this topic. Some have improved there ride by changing the tires, lowering the psi in the rear tires, or adding weight to the trunk.
The suspension issue appears to be effecting some individuals, but it's not to the degree that anyone would regret buying the Genesis.
I have test drove the car and it is definitely on my short list to purchase in the new year.
this has got me curious - what exactly do you feel is fraudulent? I'm assumming you mean that somehow Hyundai is representing that the car is in some ways comparable to some higher dollar European cars? That can't be fraudulent because within the narrow definitions of those ludricrous ads what Hyundai is saying is True - will it out accelerate a 528 yep and so will many many other cars, is it bigger than that same car by a substantial margin, so is a Taurus etc. etc. However, is it really really an alternative to the 'machines' that those BMWs are - not close - depending on your definitions and expectations. As I think, kdshapiro pointed out at one time - it is precisely that last $10 or $20k more you pay for a BMW and a long rich history and sophistication that makes it what it is
I do think though you point out a problem with Hyundai's advertising campaigns relative to the Genesis, they are attempting make us believe that the car is something it plainly isn't (and honestly can't be). It is quite logical that the car be soft - as this is what sells to Americans, and it is also quite logical that Hyundai is not going to be able to reproduce the refinement present in those German cars - first time out. Some buyers will feel cheated when the car does not meet the claims and others (like me perhaps) will simply dismiss it out of context not even having driven or owned the car.
free market transactions. Since a car is often the second biggest purchase a
consumer will make, the exercise of caution is advisable.
2. Is it your contention that Hyundai actively concealed latent defects when
engineering and manufacturing the Genesis sedan? Proving such a contention
will be far more difficult than simply making a forum claim, considering Hyundai,
the worlds 5th largest automaker, employs thousands of engineers and spends
more of their profit on R&D (nearly 9%) than any other manufacturer the world.
I'm told Chairman Chung retains outstanding legal counsel.
3. I have personally spent extended driving time in Genesis pre-production models as well as the production offering and can vouch for the competence of this very advanced suspension. From the aluminum construction to the advanced multi-link set-up, Hyundai engineers debated long and hard on the ride/handling delivery equation that would showcase this suspension. Engineers final decision leaned towards real world delivery of a balanced 'steady state and transitional' handling dynamic. It's hard to argue with real world data, versus subjective opinions of journalists who have claimed that the Genesis suspension is 'unexceptional'. Yet the Genesis outperformed the BMW 550i at .94 g . The 550 pulled a .90g.
The claims that the Genesis suspension is inferior, 'incompetent' compared to much more expensive cars, or poorly engineered is not only unfounded but uninformed.
Anyone purchasing a first-generation Genesis is receiving a platform that received nearly three-quarters of a billion dollars in engineering and development. There have been numerous inferences by consumers and auto journalists that the Genesis platform has similar DNA with the Azera and Sonata models, but this couldn't be further from the truth. The Genesis sedan and couple platforms are offerings that are a radical departure from the Sonata, Azera and Tiburon DNA and 10 minutes of seat-time in either Genesis model will reveal this.
Most of the criticism of the Genesis sedan is linked to issues that have nothing to do with the engineering and performance delivery of this platform, but focuses on brand cache` and aesthetics. And yet this is precisely how the luxury segment operates and Hyundai has decided to enter the segment in a manner that leaves many wondering if they can pull it off. Only time will tell but my prediction is that the Genesis sedan and coupe will accomplish everything Hyundai has intended and the benefits from the success of these platforms will be felt across the entire Hyundai line-up.
I am already surprised that the Genesis is receiving numerous accolades internationally and outselling many of it's competitors.
Finally someone with a clue in a sea of clueless bloggers!
They should seriously consider change the name like Nissan did if new upscale division is out of question due to a few reasons.
With a new name,even thou almost all consumers know that it is still Hyundai but
they will realize "it is not the 80s hyundai anymore rather quality product.
New perception.... sometimes name alone does lots of trick, IMO.
If you go the Lexus LS 460 forum you see will numerous complaints about a high speed wind noise issue several owners are complaining about.
I onlny mention this as an example that ANY vehical will have some issues or concerns if you visit the particular vehicles forums.
A friend of mine owns a 08 LS and loves it; no wind noise I have riden in it test drove one last week and it is great.
That being said I have driven the Genesis (both 6 & V8) and was very impressed with it and it is on my short list,it is an outstanding value and yes I put it though the paces during my test drive which included rough pavement the Genesis was very poised.
I am considering a used 07 LS or a new V8 Genesis with the tech package and yes for me it is a toss up. The Genesis performed that good in my opinion.
The LS is a better car but the Genesis is without a doubt the better value.
That is the point of what Hyundai has always intended the Genesis to be a good value and it is.
What I look for when reading about a supposed problem with any car is how many of them (in this case used Genesis) do I see offered used on Ebay etc.to date I have seen none.
If the suspension issue was a real issue they would be on the market used in noticeable number...
Just my two cents.
Consider that Toyota, Honda, and Nissan already had established a long-term reputation for quality cars before launching their luxury divisions. Hyundai has a different challenge: make more people, all those who have not tried Hyundai in the past 10 years, aware that Hyundai makes quality cars. The Genesis can help raise the image of the brand such that general perception matches reality.
If a name change would "do the trick", then we would see new names for GM and Chrysler, and most of their brands, right?
I had fun with a 2009 Challenger V8 GT all recently. The best ride by a mile was the 2009 Infinity G 37s sport sedan.
The suspension on the Genesis was the worst by far ( like steering a Chris Craft)
I also had the worst sales experience with the Hyundai dealerships.
"
Based on what I have read on other Genesis forums, owners have experienced the following problems:
1. Rough ride over tar strips and rough roads (suspension/standard tire issues?)
2. Car pulls to one side while driving on the highway (alignment issues?) Hyundai issued a TSB to correct the alignment specs for the Genesis
3. The heating/cooling vents for the rear passengers does not blow cold air. Only hot air.
4. Trouble opening the fuel door. Takes several pushes of the button to open the fuel door. Some owners have said they had to go in the trunk and open the fuel door manually, but someone posted that Hyundai has a fix for this. Contact your dealer for more info.
5. Water leaking into the trunk. This apparently is a design issue and cannot be fixed without redesigning the trunk. If your car has been sitting out in the rain and you open the trunk all the water sitting on top of your trunk will drip down to the inside of your trunk. I recall having this same problem in my 97 Geo Metro. The easiest fix is to buy a rubber cargo tray for the trunk so the carpeting does not get wet.
6. Slight buzzing sound briefly coming from behind the dash after pushing the Start/Stop button. (This might be normal operation)
7. Other random software updates to fix software glitches with XM, Nav, etc."
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1b3717/9
You realize of course that of all the cars you drove, the only one in the same general class as the Genesis was the G8? Yet you are comparing handling of, say, the Mazdaspeed 3 to a large luxury sedan. BTW, how was the suspension/tire noise of the 3 on tar strips?
The description of the "water leaking into the trunk" is overstated. The owners are not saying that "all the water sitting on top of your trunk will drip down to the inside of your trunk." They are saying there is some dripping off the sides of the trunk lid if the trunk lid is opened fully w/o letting water drain off it first (e.g. opening it half-way, then all the way). I've seen this same behavior with almost every car I've owned. Some water will drip off the lid and into the trunk when the lid is open all the way. Most of it comes from the bottom edge of the lid, but some from the sides, especially if there is any wind (which often there is, in a rainstorm). The owners also report the trunk does not leak, which would be a significant problem.
Of the problems listed, the only significant one IMO is the alignment issue. You expect a car to track straight. Ride? That can be checked out during a test drive. If the buyer of a $35-40k car doesn't take the time to drive the car on the kinds of roads he/she typically travels on, that's not the fault of the car, but a mistake on the part of the buyer. As noted, there is likely a fix for the balky fuel door (maybe just a little lube will help?), software glitches, and maybe the alignment issue. I didn't see enough on the air vent problem to know whether it's just an impatient owner not willing to wait for the hot air to be blown out of the rear vents after the car has been sitting for awhile, or a real problem. I noticed no one on the Genesis owners forum mentioned the problem, so it could simply be a mis-adjusted HVAC system on a few (or one) cars.
You hit the nail on the head!
If the Genesis has so many problems where are the used Genesis'?
I agree it is a very simple indicater of a possible problem if they are being unloaded.
And yes the Genesis has been on our shores long enough to see used sales if people could not live with them because of bouncey suspensions and hot air only in the rear compartment etc.
It is being offered as a value not to say it is cheap $40K+ is a lot of money and there are plenty of people who could afford to spend more on a car but choose the Genesis. I don't beleive those who could afford higher end are shelling out that kind of money and just living with the problems they would unload it and move on.
I have not seen a single post to that effect thus far on any Genesis forum.
However I have seen them in BMW,MB and the XF forums.
Please direct me to a source for used Genesis...
Hyundai Genesis For Sale
Average Price
$37,508
349 Listings