Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

backy

No, it doesn't count in "manufacturer-to-consumer rebates." That is a specific category of incentives, one in which anyone who buys/leases the car gets the rebate, no exceptions. There are many, many other kinds of incentives of course, such as the lease support you mentioned. But not everyone leases the Genesis.

carolinabob

I have seen "rebates" or other discounts from $3,000 on Genesis to $7,000 off Vera Cruz. There are also other discounts out there that Edmunds and others do not know about.
In the April Consumer Reports, they ranked manufacturers. The two "cons" for Hyundai products are suspension and low resale value. It might change, but until it does, it hasn't.
As regards somebody guessing at the value of a car at the end of the lease, that blew up in 2008 big time. That is why so many companies changed leasing rules and some stopped altogether. Cars were coming back in off lease that were worth far less than they had guessed 2-4 years earlier.
Of course improving from very low to low is an improvement of sorts.

allmet33

Seems as though someone was listening. You can get the piece you need from KAI (Korean Auto Imports) for about $100.

Genesis Sedan Luggage Partition

backy

Did you see a $3000 manufacturer-to-consumer rebate on the Genesis, or a discount from a dealer? I think the latter, right? There have been no manufacturer-to-consumer rebates on the Genesis sedan that I have seen. Leasing deals, discounts from dealers--that's another story.

As far as lease residual figures, is it possible ALG has a better handle on that than Consumer Reports? BTW, CR's comment was regarding Hyundai and Kia vehicles. Kias have poorer resale value than Hyundais.

allmet33

Genesis Sound Dampener Kit

captain2

Those prices have already come up considerably from just a few years ago, as the brand has gained more acceptance.

I've seen no evidence of that - Hyundai remains (and problematically is expected to be) the cheapest car is whatever class it supposedly competes in. While it is true that cheap now generally means cheap later, as long as folks go to a Hyundai dealer expecting to pay less for something then resale value will remain a problem. For Hyundai to elevate itself into those upper ranks of value retention it will simply have to stop selling things just because they are cheaper and more specifically for what they are actually are.
Think of that Honda or Toyota dealer that comes across like: " this is a Honda (or Toy) - this is the best car on the planet - and if you want it, this is what it costs and if you don't like or think you can do better with something else - be my guest." Honda and Toyota specifically are quite successful selling cars in this manner - somehow I can't imagine Hyundai ever be able to sell anything where price is not a primary consideration.
The Catch to all of this is that: even though they already should be able to do stop selling things because they are 'cheap'; they can't because the consumer expects large discounts, rebates and/or cheap prices. In effect, Hyundai has made its own bed and this is part of the baggage that attached to the Hyundai name, unfortunately.
The one other thing that really helps that resale value - after keeping those inital prices up - is an earned reputation for building a superior car (especially from a reliability perspective) something that also has not happened yet - Hyundai's reliability scores are generally nothing to brag about - mid pack much like their residual values...

allmet33

Cheap now = cheap later is really a bad way of looking at it. I mean...if you want a true comparison...look at the difference by way of percentages and you'll see...the Hyundai vehicles hold their own against the competition.

We've had this discussion before and I showed the work up on that. The difference in percentage points was maybe 2-3 in favor of the other brands, but the point is...Hyundai is close.

backy

Yes, and I've already provided the numbers for the real-world price increases on Hyundais over the past few years, either here or in a related discussion. So no need to cover that ground again. The evidence is there for anyone who is interested in seeing it.

allmet33

Right! Some folks are just stuck on the fact that since they spent more up front it's worth more later on. In their book, more is more no matter how you look at it. :confuse:

captain2

look at the difference by way of percentages
No, No, No.
Look at how much money you lost when you trade it in - gross dollars - NOT PERCENTAGES - because those are the real $ spent to own anything. BMWs do very well retaining a high percentage of their values but cost a relative fortune to drive. Obviously because they cost so much initially. Honda is running a ad campaign right now talking about how much cheaper a Civic is to own than any other brand (referencing Edmund's TCO numbers)- how could that be when it is about the most expensive to buy? :confuse:

backy

You are absolutely right. You have to look at dollars vs. percentages. The more expensive the car, the better the "percentages" look, while you might be losing more real money than with a less expensive car.

captain2

spent more up front it's worth more later on
of course this is generally true and you don't need to take my word for it - just run some numbers on KBB, NADA or someplace like that. You don't need to be 'stuck' on anything but you just might have to have your hands on your ankles when you trade that Hyundai branded product in.

captain2

The more expensive the car, the better the "percentages" look
that's nonsense too - tell that to somebody that just bought a Lincoln!

toye

Overall Hyundai resales values are increasing because people's perception of Hyundai is changing. The Hyundai of the 80's is long gone.

backy

Uh, no, it's not nonsense at all. I will illustrate with an example:

Genesis V6 sedan, purchase price $35,000.
Alternative car L, purchase price $45,000.

Depreciation of Genesis over first 3 years (for purposes this example only!): 50%
Depreciation of car L over first 3 years: 40%.

Well, well, we think, car L has MUCH better retained value than the Genesis! Look at the percentages!

Not so. The buyer of the Genesis lost $17,500 in depreciation over the first 3 years of ownership, while the buyer of car L lost $18,000.

captain2

The Hyundai of the 80's is long gone
Hope so, and I also hope the Hyundai of the 90s is gone as well - which is part of the problem - a leopard doesn't change its spots that quickly, at least in the carbuyer's mind - and despite the fact that it amy be true!

captain2

what was nonsense was your statement that:
The more expensive the car, the better the "percentages" look
which is not necessarily true - Lincolns as my example -cars that can sell for close to 50 large and be bought after 1 year for half of that. :sick:
We apparently agree on the whole the dollars lost is what counts thing - something certainly not 'nonsense!

ctl

Long gone? When I mentioned to my wife that the new Genesis seems pretty decent for the money of a ES or TL, upon knowing the brand, her reply is simple, "Don't you buy us a Hyundai!" Same perception is still pretty much among my friend circles. Now this has nothing to do how good a car the Genesis is, I knew Korean can make cheap quality products, Kuhmo is one example.

Overall Hyundai resales values are increasing because people's perception of Hyundai is changing. The Hyundai of the 80's is long gone.

captain2

Same perception is still pretty much among my friend circles
If I would go out and buy my teenager his/her first car and I had a choice between a 5 year old Honda (or Toyota) or a 3 year old Hyundai at the same price - one purchase is going to meet with some understanding nods, the other with a plane ticket to the funny farm. Never said it was right or even fair, but perhaps an unfortunate truth.

allmet33

Captain...can't argue with that...more up front does equal more later on, however...the point of my statment is that if 2 cars of different makes (one premium and one not so premium) sell for whatever price they sell (let's say the premium sedan sells for $15k more than the non-premium sedan, and the value lost over, say...3 years is equal to 20%.

Let's say the premium sedan was $45k...-20%...that's $36,000, right?

I said the non-premium was $15k less, right, so $30k - 20% is $24,000, right?

Well, the premium sedan is still worth more in terms of money, but the difference in their original price and the price they are worth later is the same (20%). So in actuality, the percentage of loss is the same, but...the $45k car lost $9k and the $30k car lost $6k...so which was the greater loss if they both took a 20% hit?

allmet33

Unless my circle of friends plan on ponying up the money to pay for MY child's first car, I could care less what they might think about why MY child is rolling down the street in. I would take a 3 year old Hyundai over a 5 year old Honda or Toyota ANY DAY!!!! :shades:

allmet33

You see...that is where you're wrong my friend. I based my purchase decision on the fact that whatever car I got, I would be keeping till the wheels fell off. Trust me when I tell you that I will be getting my money's worth and then some.

Funny, my '02 Sonata w/105k miles on it...netted me $5k at trade. I had the car for 4 years and I only paid $17k for it. Do you really think I was crying at the end of all that? Hardly my friend.

allmet33

Thanks Backy...the point I was trying to make, but the Captain refuses to see the facts for himself.

captain2

once I get passed telling my son, for example that he can't have his treasured pick up truck, he would have the same problem with driving a Hyundai as ctl's wife. Sad but true.

allmet33

And the folks that are still resistant to the idea of driving a Hyundai are the very ones that haven't even taken themselves to go look at one in person. They see them on the streets and know they look good and would be a car they could see themselves in, but because it's a Hyundai...won't bother to go find out that there's so much more behind the sheet metal. Their are afraid that they would be forced to change their mentality in regards to Hyundai products. Hey...I once laughed at the disposable Excels (even owned one as a necessity). However, the '02 Sonata made me a believer considering it cost me $6k less than a comparably equipped Camry at the time. I haven't looked back since.

captain2

if you are truly keeping a car 'until the wheels fall off' then you are in the minority - the 'normal' time spent with a first only is slightly less than 4 years - and this statisitic is decreasing primarily because of all the leases. That said, it does not take a rocket scientist to know that if you are going to do that then the best car from an operational cost point of view (operating and repair costs equal) will ALWAYS be the cheapest one to buy inititally. It's when your like most other folks and don't do that - this is when that might not always be true.
Car dealers BTW are quite good psychologists, they will know when a particular buyer is sensitive to what they might allow for trade-oin value and therefore will inflate that number at the expense of what they might otherwise have done with purchase price. In your case, you got a good deal because you think you did (isn't that all that really matters), I would have no idea - too many variables.

toye

Obviously your wife haven't sat in a Genesis or a late model Hyundai. Most of my circle of friends our stunned by the quality of the Genesis and are now open to possibly of purchasing a Hyundai as their next purchase. They too were stuck in the 80's mentality but now has changed their perception of Hyundai.

It's that kind of open thinking that will carry Hyundai to new heights. Will Hyundai ever be associated with BMW, MB or LEXUS? Probaly not, But it will be on par with Toyota, and Honda. In order for Hyundi to compete in the luxury they will need to put GENESIS as sub brand such as LEXUS (toyota) and INFINITITY(nissan).

Again Toyota, Honda and Datsun were a inferior brand in the 70's and early 80's and look what happen.

fedlawman

"my '02 Sonata w/105k miles on it...netted me $5k at trade. I had the car for 4 years and I only paid $17k for it."

In 2004, I traded in my 1993 Honda Accord EX with 102,000 miles. I paid $15,000 for it in 1993 and got $4,000 for it.

Your Sonata cost $3,000/year to own. My Accord cost 1,000/year.

bobad

a leopard doesn't change its spots that quickly, at least in the carbuyer's mind - and despite the fact that it amy be true!

Maybe not in your mind, but not in the minds of all car buyers.

You really need to catch up with the times, Captain. Hyundai kicked things into high gear for the 2006 model year vehicles, and haven't slowed 1 bit. They put their cars on the fast track to beat Toyota and Honda at their own game. They're right on schedule. At the current rate, I think their quality and value will surpass their competition by a considerable margin in 2-3 years, and sales in 6-8 years. It will happen the same way some of the Korean electronics manufacturers surpassed their Japanese counterparts. Better open your mind, you only have 2-3 years to get used to it.

toye

If I kept ANY car for 11 years my cost per year would go down considerably as well.

toye

When was the last time there was a negative article about Hyundai and their products.

How about any MAJOR recalls that potentially puts the passenger safety at risk.

This company is doing things right and in a big way.

Again, when was there a negative article about Hyundai and the products...other than the naysayers in this forum.

jkobty2

I think Hyundai has a plan for the name Genesis. Notice Genesis Sedan, Genesis Coupe. In Canada I have seen a few Genesis models at the dealer lot with only the Genesis name on the car, no Hyundai name, or badge to be seen anywhere inside or outside the car. Instead it has a logo similar to a Bentley. I think in the next few years Hyundai will start opening Genesis dealerships (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Genesis). It is the Luxury brand of the future.
I also wanted a Genesis, but ironically this Korean car was too expensive for my budget. So I ended up getting a 2009 Mazda6. Already regret that decision. After just one year, the Mazda engine already sounds like a diesel when idling. Japanese cars are not what they used to be. Just look at the Toyota forums with the troubles they had with their six speed transmissions, the sludge problems in the engines. Look at the Honda forums, transmission problems abound. All my friends who ended up buying Hondas or Toyotas back in 1999 already got rid of their cars. A toyota had to change both engine and transmission at 30K, Acura TL had changed his transmission 3 times by 90K (that is Kilometeres not miles).
When in fact my 1999 Daewoo Leganza is still running like new (Original engine and transmission). In fact its engine still sounds better after 10 years than my 2009 Mazda6. Korean cars all the way baby. Maybe in a couple of years I can trade in my Mazda6 with a Hyundai Sonata. The upcoming version looks amazing from the spyshots.
Hoping it is true Japanese cars still keep their trade-in value. But sooner or later people will wake up and see them for the pieces of crap they are.

backy

Actually there were recently some "major recalls" of some Hyundais for such things as front control arms that could rust out in high-salt conditions. My sister's 2001 Elantra (formerly owned by me for many years, has been a solid car for nearly nine years) just had a recall for the cover on the driver's airbag. Those are safety-related recalls. There are also numerous reviews (aka articles) out there that hit some Hyundai products in certain aspects such as suspension noise or handling. Those could be considered "negative", although almost every review I've seen on Hyundais in recent years has been mostly positive, or at least the positive reviews far outnumber the negative ones--including re the Genesis sedan (back on topic... yesssss!).

mickeyrom

Sounds like you just have a prejudice against Korean cars. I have leased a 2006 Hyundai Sonata and found it an extremely pleasant car to drive.Then the following year I bought a 2006.5 KIA Optima EX with leather etc. and after 26K miles I have exactly 0 complaints.
There is a reason that the Genesis sedan was the car of the year.(Car and Driver I believe)
I was window shopping at a Hyundai/KIA dealer last month and they said that the Genesis was their second best seller this year,right after the KIA Soul.

bobad

I think Hyundai has a plan for the name Genesis. Notice Genesis Sedan, Genesis Coupe.

I think Hyundai s putting a huge effort into constantly improving the entire Hyundai line. If they get their way, they won't need to separate the "good cars" from the "bad cars", because there aren't any bad cars. There is in fact no reason to hide the Hyundai name, and Hyundai marketing is saturating the airwaves and print media with it.

Genesis is top of the line RWD. Hyundai is the mainstream brand, Kia is slightly downscale/economy, but still good quality.

I don't believe Hyundai is hanging their hat on Genesis as a major profit center. I think the purpose if Genesis is to shine light on Hyundai as a quality brand. (halo effect)

miklo

Im seeing all kinds of things written about how much this cost and what you get back when you trade the car in.IMHO trading a car in to the dealer is a real big mistake.First time ever my Genesis salesman even said this to me.I guess what Im thinking is a person can take figures of something and make it say just what they want.Remember a man convinced against his will.........is of the same opinion still !! If I keep a car 4 to 6 years I really have no idea what Im gonna get for the car until I sell it, just look at a Kelly's blue book and see the distance from low to high,and of course a lot depends where your gonna sell it.I have never bought a car with the idea of what Im gonna get when I sell it. Now maybe Im wrong but thats the way I think,kinda like when ppl get married and sign a pre-nuptial agreement,to me its a blueprint to failure.Yeah, yeah I know ya gotta protect yourself.....blah,blah.I buy a car cause I like it and I feel its worth the price they are asking for it.I got my 2002 Sonata for $14,000.00 3grand cheaper than someone paid for the same car (got info from this forum) so what! Thats what it cost to do business at the time and as long as we both were happy we got a good deal IMO.
Im more interested in the quality issues and users take on their new Genesis than I am crunching numbers..........of course this is just my opinion and.......I could be wrong as you see it.Bottom line 4me is I got a good deal on my Genesis and I love driving it,although its not perfect it is a really nice car and when and if I sell it I will then find out what the cars value is at that moment in the town I live.In my mind anything I get for a "used" car after I have driven it for a number of years is all gravy or "free money" cause the way I see it is it cost what it cost to enjoy for X number of years.So tell us what you think.

MIKLO

toye

Kia is positioning itself with the youth market. The new Soul is prehaps the most daring design product from Hyundai/Kia. I work at a college and the kids love it.

fedlawman

"Japanese cars are not what they used to be. Just look at the Toyota forums with the troubles they had with their six speed transmissions."

The V6 Genesis has an Aisin (Toyota) 6-speed transmission.

toye

Everytime I drive my Genesis I get the same reaction. People come up to me and want to see the my new car. A lot of these people are driving their MB, BMW, LEXUS or other luxury brand. They are simply impressed with the automobile. If I'm driving down the road, people strain their necks just get a good look. The naysayers have no clue what the Genesis is doing for Hyundai. My gut feeling is that the Genesis being percieved (accepted) as a true luxury car, not a wantabe. This type of advertising money can't buy. I feel this is the same thing what happen in 1989 when people bought a Lexus for the first time

toye

Although you really can't compare the Genesis and BMW 750i. Another editor, this time from Automobile has come and said that they would rather drive the Genesis than the 750i. Again this just shows you the how far Hyundai has come. Of course the 750i is a superior vehicle, it better be for a price well over twice that of the Genesis.

Bottom line; you don't have make an expensive car to be a great car.

alonzo2

I drove a 99 q45 for 10 years and bought a genesis with the tech package last week. Boy cars have come a long way! The suspension is better in the q45, the interior apointments go to the q45, the engine hands down to the genesis, the comfort and luxury features to the genesis, the computer controls and gadgets to the genesis, the pharphignugen to the genesis(but it's close), the silent ride to the genesis, the sound system is a tie, the paint to the genesis, the styling and wheels to the genesis, the trunk to the genesis, the price to the genesis(by a long shot), the steering wheel to the q45, the lights to the genesis, the "wow" factor when driving it around the neighborhood to the genesis, the brand name to the q45(according to my kids), the reliability remains to be seen(I had no repairs on the q45 until this year when everything rubber started leaking), the warrantee to the genesis all the way, the transmission to the q45, the time required to learn how to use all the bells and whistles(it looks like I'm going to be at this project for a long time) but it's fun!!

carolinabob

Combination of new dealership and what Hyundai was offering.

carolinabob

For Genesis to be a sub-brand comparable to Lexus, Infiniti, etc., Hyundai would have to raise the price by 25% and the service charges by dealers by 50%. That's a fact.
Hyundai sells 2,000 Genesis per month in its first year with fantastic publicity. That is 24,000 cars per year or 480 per state or about 75 or so per dealer PER YEAR. No dealer can live on that without charging an arm and a leg for the car and the service.
The Geneis number one virture is what you get for the MONEY you spend. Take that away and sales plumet.
Even Hyundai knows this.

carolinabob

2006 and 2007 new Hyundais were Azera and Vera Cruz -both failing in the market place today. Also, H has a long way to go to match Toyota and Honda quality and sales are rising because it is a cheap car relatively speaking.
Korean electronics surpassing Japanese - not happening.

carolinabob

Car and Driver, Automobile Magazine, Consumer Guide and Consumer Reports all had negative comments regarding suspension on the Genesis. In CR's review (April issue) of manufacturers, they noted two problems for Hyundai was low re-sale and suspension.
While they rate the Genesis highly, they do also point out problems. If present in a brand new car, what will be the issues at 10,000+ miles?

mickeyrom

I wonder how many Korean cars (the recent ones) these critics have ever owned.I have owned only two,but already I know that they match the Japanese counterparts in every way but resale value.They exceed them in warranty,therefore if all other things are equal,in value.

toye

I didn't say negative comments as all cars can be improved. BUT Negative reviews. What good article can has come out about American Car companies in the last year. Not very many.

Again you have to be a Genesis owner to understand what I've been posting lately.

The so called suspension issue is not an issue with me.

alonzo2

The reason I switched this year from an established luxury car to Genesis is the incredible cost of repair which granted did not begin until the car was 10 years old but is draconian. If your headlamp goes out the dealer will charge you close to $1000 to repair if he elects to declare the capacitor needed to be replaced. My cost was $35 getting the parts through ebay and doing it myself. The leaking condensor in the air conditioner cost $680 to buy and $400 to install and charge. The ebay cost if I had done it myself with clone condensors: $300. The "service charge" referred to in the note above is a real thing and that 5 year 60000 mile warrantee with Genesis will come in handy.

ergsum

Samsung became the worlds largest consumer electronics company in 2005, surpassing Sony. Their televisions, both LCD and Plasma are highly ranked (link title just one source as an example), Blu-ray, cell phones, digital cameras, etc. LG (Lucky Goldstar) is also Korean.

sergio19

Since Carolinabob loves to come here and remind us about "THE BAD" reviews...I thought it only fair to quote some of "THE OTHER" reviews.

Enjoy the reading...in my case I'm enjoying the hell out of my V8/Tech Genesis.

thetruthaboutcars.com
If Lexus pursued perfection, Hyundai got the patent. The SACHs-tuned springy bits absolutely devour a long interstate. Toss potholes, speed bumps or pavement joints into the mix and the Genesis moves so gracefully I swore it gained 6-inches in wheelbase and grew a Panther chassis. The slippery drag coefficient adds to a silent cabin. The Genesis 4.6 simply drives like a far more expensive car.

wheels.ca
At a pace that would have had most people reaching for the OMIGOD!!! handle, if not the Gravol, there was barely a peep from the big Dunlops.
The suspension simply kept the tires' contact patches in intimate connection to the pavement, allowing the car to slingshot from one bend to the next.
On the track, switching "off" the directional stability control actually meant just raising the threshold at which face-saving (yours and the car's) intervention took place. You could still get the back end to step out a little, while lifting off the throttle tucked the nose in gently. Very accomplished, very entertaining and very safe.

auto123.com
Elsewhere, it should be noted that the Genesis uses a smartly-tuned suspension that achieves a judicious balance of sporty handling and comfortable ride. Body roll is never excessive.

Driving dynamics are just as commendable despite the significant weight of the car. Handling is good, too, although the majority of Genesis owners probably won't spend their time on tight, winding roads. The steering feels a tad heavy, but the driving experience is still a lot of fun. The 5-link aluminum suspension turns out to be quite smooth, soaking up every bump in the road. Gas shocks play a huge part, making the Genesis a quality tourer.

leftlanenews.com
Handling on the winding roads from Santa Barbara to Buttonwillow, displayed a well-sorted sports sedan. Unlike other vehicles in the segment which use MacPherson struts in front and a multi-link suspension in the rear, Hyundai engineers chose to use the advanced five-link suspension in both the front and rear of the car.

cars.about.com
Allow me to start with a disclaimer: I am not lying. I am only pointing that out because I expect a large number of readers not to believe me when I talk about how good the Hyundai Genesis is. There are a lot of people who are convinced that Hyundai simply cannot build a decent car. Not that I blame them; twenty years ago Hyundai was peddling the Excel, a car that cost $45 to build and was made out of compressed squirrel turds. Who in their right mind would believe that Hyundai could come so far, so fast?

For those who are inclined to believe me, I'll give you the short version: The Genesis Sedan is a Lexus. It drives like a Lexus. It coddles you like a Lexus. It even smells like a Lexus. It's a $33,000 Lexus, unless you go for the V8 model, in which case it's a $38,000 Lexus with the engine from a $60,000 Mercedes.