As has been pointed out here many times Edmund's uses msrp as the cost new. On the Sonata, no one pays msrp. It is usually about $4,000. less than msrp. This makes the Sonata cost much less to own than the Accord...but it is a lesser car.
This makes the Sonata cost much less to own than the Accord...but it is a lesser car.
I beg to differ. In the $16-$22K range, the Sonata was the best family sedan I could find, by far.
In the same vein, I believe the Genesis is the best luxury car in the $30-$40K range. I think resale value will improve, and it will trickle down to all the later model Hyundai's.
pointed out here many times Edmund's uses msrp as the cost new not if I read it right- this from Edmund's own explanation of their 'TCO': For new vehicles, the Total Cash Price, is the sum of a vehicle's True Market Value price (another car-buying tool from Edmunds), typically equipped options, destination charge, base tax for the state and any applicable luxury/gas-guzzler taxes. For used vehicles, the total cash price shown is the sum of the vehicle's Private Party TMV price in "clean" condition plus typically equipped options, and base tax and fees in your state Edmund's, like others apparewntly uses what they call their TMV (total market value) as a basis for initial costs, this TMV not necessarily being related to MSRP at all but rather touted (by Edmund's) to be a 'target' price after negotiation. In any case, while it is obviously true that the Hyundai branded product will almost always sell at a higher discount than that Honda product, it also appears that that fact is acounted for in therse 'True-Cost-to Own' calculations
They actually developed their first engine in '91, so they've been at it for 19 years to be precise! Here's some good reading that just goes to show how far along Hyundai has come!!!
Yes, but the whole point is to shop comparable cars, so that means V-6 vs. V-6 (even if there's a difference in power)...which, drives the price of that precious Accord up. MSRP on an Accord LX (before adding anything) was $25k.
WOW could I not agree with that less. When it comes to engines, comparability is about overall performance. A V-6 that gets generates the same HP and torque as an I-4 is more comparable than a comparing two V-6's with drastically different outputs. And the smaller engine with better performance is probably a better buy because of the lower weight, yielding better handling and gas mileage to boot!
Interesting that other sources such as Wikipedia, that Font of All Knowledge, put the introduction of the Alpha in 1993, but either way it's still a long time for Hyundai's own engines. The Tau in the Genesis sedan is a relatively new design of course, but a great effort for what was only Hyundai's 2nd V8, after the Omega.
If performance is what you're after, then yes. If you're interested in a engine that screams and whines when pushed, then yes...go for the smaller engine. I like the fact that my 2.7 V-6 didn't scream when I cruised the highway at 75-80 mph. Trust me, I had a 4 cyl Camry prior to that and the engine made much more noise.
Ultimately, it truly depends on what it is you're looking for in a car that will determine just how you will cross shop. The funniest thing...folks post about how they were interested in the Genesis sedan, but then talk about the ES 350, G37 and cars that are smaller. If you were interested in a large sedan to begin with, why are they cross shopping mid-size sedans??? Oh...that's right, because that's all they could get in the price range of the Genesis. Starting to see my point?
I saved $6k to give up a few little hp under the hood and still got all the features and amenites the others had to offer in their cars.
yep everything with wheels is selling cheap these days, and yes a Hyundai can be bought for less than what Edmund's TMV says, BUT so can a Honda. Things like Accords and Camrys selling below invoice - unheard of not too long ago - today it's happening all the time. The Sonata - never has had an 'invoice' price that meant much anyway, although it is refreshing to see that Hyundai finally has a product that is not selling only because of price.
For all those that have questioned Hyundai's committment to quality and execution... Being ranked 4th below Lexus, Porsche & Cadillac is not an accident.
Of all these values discussion, you guys are missing one of the biggest point: Brand. Driving a Honda vs. a Hyundai and driving an Accord vs. a Sonata for 10 years, how much value difference is that?? if your answer is 0, there will be no cars like R&R, Bently, Lambo exists. Even Benz and BMW will be a lot cheaper
Of all these values discussion, you guys are missing one of the biggest point: Brand. Driving a Honda vs. a Hyundai and driving an Accord vs. a Sonata for 10 years, how much value difference is that?? if your answer is 0, there will be no cars like R&R, Bently, Lambo exists. Even Benz and BMW will be a lot cheaper
Sorry, if you had mad this statement about 6 years ago...I might have agreed with you. However, value difference between Honda & Hyundai is pretty much dead even. The only place Honda really beats out Hyundai is in resale value, and even that difference is eventually going to be pretty even. To jump out there and mention Honda & Hyundai and then try to bring up R/R, Bently and all those exotics...you're crazy. The exotics will almost have one thing the mass produced vehicles won't...hands on building, exotic materials and gobs of power under the hood.
Regardless of how many Daewoos, Kias, Hyundais, Suzukis and such pepper the automotive landscape, there will always be the R/R's, Bentleys, Lambos and such. Come on, I know you've heard of Yin & Yang!!!
allmet - this is fine and a tribute to some fine 'quality control' work on Hyundai's part before its products ever leave the factory. Inital quality is however, just that and really has nothing to do with how well its cars hold up over the 3 to 5 year periods we all tend to own them. In that regard, Hyundai doesn't do nearly as well, finishing only midpack in terms of reliability - at least according to the CR 09 Auto Issue.
You really can't compare pre 2006 Hyundai to the post 2006 models.They have not been around for 5 years yet,so somebody might be lumping them together to get the 5 year reliability on them.
Captain...surely even you can appreciate the fact that all things begin somewhere. In Hyundai's case, being ranked high in intial quality is a stepping stone. Honda & Toyota hardly whisked to the top of the heap in an expeditious manner. Fact of the matter is...prior to the '06 model year, Hyundai wasn't even on the map in regards to initial quality (even though I thought highly of my '02 Sonata). '02 was the year things started shaping up for them with the re-design of the Sonata and then in '06, things started getting off the ground with a complete re-do of the Sonata and introduction of the Azera and all of their other cars getting a re-fresh. Initial quality has shot up, but we'll have to see where things stand in another 4-5 years to see just how these cars are holding up. So far, my '06 Azera...is doing really good. Nothing is falling off, breaking down or broken and I've got just over 71k on it.
I really like the leather dash trim and the overall cabin quality is very nice in this price range.
I must say though, that on the refinement scale, it didn't feel much different from the V6. Yes, it felt a little more planted and composed over the road, and the power is noticeably better, but that extra power (with very little throttle movement) also resulted in more sudden and intrusive activation of the ESC when I accelerated in corners. I also noted the slightly jittery/busy ride over small road imperfections and textures, and was surprised by the amount of tire noise/howling entering the cabin through the chassis - which became noticeable at about 40 MPH and unmistakable on the highway.
Still though, I'm really picking nits here. It's probably the one of the nicest cars out there for less than $40,000 and I remain impressed with the level of quality and refinement that it has. I would never have guessed that it was a Hyundai in a blind test.
I guess I'll say that, based on some optimistic comments that I've read about the Genesis 4.6 here and elsewhere, I was expecting to be blown away - say a 9 out of 10. What I observed and experienced was more like an 8.5 out of 10. Still excellent - I'd buy one in a heartbeat (either the V6 or V8) if I was looking for some value in a large luxury sedan.
have read a number of claims on this and other Hyundai related sites that will claim that Hyundai's quality turnaround acxutally began as far back as 2002. But, what would make 2006 such a magical year from that perspective? Using the 2006 Azera as an example, it fared extremely well in JDP and even CRs initial rankings but has since retreated substantially. The higher volume Sonata has put up a respectable (if unremarkable) showing for a number of years now - even as far back as 2002. Interestingly one of the simpliest and cheapest Hyundai model does the best, the Elantra.
have read a number of claims on this and other Hyundai related sites that will claim that Hyundai's quality turnaround acxutally began as far back as 2002. But, what would make 2006 such a magical year from that perspective?
I think that Hyundai's surge in quality goes hand in hand with the re-design of their fleet of cars and the addition of the Azera to show that they can foray into entry-level luxury. In '02...they simply refreshed what they had and I think more people took notice because now their vehicles weren't the awkward, ugly ducklings on the road. They actually started to look like cars folks would want to own (not just out of financial necessity).
'02 is when Hyundai introduced Shiftronic on the Sonata & the XG. Unheard of feature on a cars of the price range they fell in at the time. The transmission actually proved to be solid, with a greater fewer complaints than on their previous transmissions. Their engines, while not exactly technological wonders...have been better than decent up until the '06 model year when they finally got serious about keeping up with the status quo.
While the re-fresh in '02 made more people take notice, it was the '06 model year that really grabbed folks attention because now Hyundai had cars that folks actually wanted to go take a look at and when they did, were completely surprised by what was being offered. Has their turn around been phenomenal...hardly. However, it has been undeniable. If Hyundai can continue on the path they've been on as of late...they will be mentioned (without chuckles, snorts or guffaws) with Honda & Toyota without hesitation.
A Honda or a Toyota is bought because it is perceived to be 'better' car than whatever is out there - certainly NOT because they are the cheapest. It is when a Hyundai product is bought for those kind of reasons are NOT because it happens to cheapest, has the best 'warranty', and/or is perceived a 'better' value - THAT is when we will know that Hyundai has made some progress in the quality dept.. Something that takes more than a few years of history to prove to a consumer that has a long memory.... :sick:
Captain, I can't argue with that logic. However, as long as Hyundai keeps that warranty, it will still be a selling point with them. Heck...the warranty must have something to do with it because there are Toyota & Honda dealers here in the DC area selling LIFETIME warranties with their cars. Granted, it's not the manufacturer's warranty, but it's a warranty none the less...and it's putting folks in the seats of those cars.
As far as consumers with long memories...all it would take is one test drive in a Hyundai to get them second guessing their previous conceptions of Hyundai. Most folks that have a negative view, have never even owned, driven or ridden in one. That's like saying you can't stand sushi, but you've never tried it. Those that have...can't blame them, but again...if they go take a look-see, they'll be pleasantly surprised.
The poster's inference was that circa 2006 Hyundai had some sort of revelation in the quality dept something not substantiated by those folks that study these things (CR, for example). Which is why my question. I am not debating the fact that they have expanded and improved their product line. Heck, if GM or Chrysler were fortunate enough to have what Hyundai has to sell, then I bet we all could have saved a bunch of our tax dollars!
The big turnaround was made for the 2006 model year. Hyundai made a powerful statement of commitment, stating they were either going to compete on every level with the top manufacturers, or get out of the car business.
That statement is why I bought the 2006 Sonata, and the reason I now trust Hyundai. Their mission used to be to sell the most cars at the highest profit possible. Now the mission is to beat their competitors in quality and price in every niche. I don't even recognize pre-2006 Hyundai as being the same company.
Not saying that Hyundai will stay on track forever. So far they are on track to aceive their goals, improving their cars every year. There are going to be at least 7 new models released in the next 3 years. Not bad for a 5 year old car company.
Well said, however...it's the '02 model year that made me take notice. I purchased out of necessity since it was the brand that offered me what I was looking for at a price I couldn't walk away from. However, over the 4 years of ownerhip...that car truly changed my opinion of Hyundai as a company. And to give some perspective, I had owned 3 Toyotas prior to my Sonata.
I also had something to base it on as I had owned an '87 Excel at one point in my life.
Night & day...that's the only way to describe it.
As far as not recognizing anything pre-'06...you really must to put it into perspective of just how far & fast they've started turning around. Honda & Toyota had a 20 year head start on Hyundai and it wasn't until the 80's that they really took off. Hyundai has pretty much followed the same path they laid out. I think the hardest thing to digest is that Hyundai comes from Korea. Korea is just NOT supposed to be producing anything of quailty...it's just NOT supposed to happen! (said tongue in cheek by the way)
I purchased out of necessity since it was the brand that offered me what I was looking for at a price I couldn't walk away from This, in a nutshell, is the problem that Hyundai has in selling an upscale car like the Genesis, and is also a big reason why they are less effected by the crappy economy than about everybody else.
Maybe, but I think it would have been a truly different scenario had Hyundai never brought the Azera to market. Imagine a company offering the Sonata and then jumping to the Genesis!!! The Azera showed that they were at least capable and so when it came....those that knew about the Azera weren't surprised at all. The only surprise was how well they executed, especially in comparison to the Azera.
Oh...in '02, the purchase was out of necessity and it proved to be a solid move. When I purchased my Azera, I did it without hesitation. Sure I took a look at the Avalon & Maxima just to see what they offered and how much it would cost. However, there was no hesitation on pulling the trigger on my Azera purchase at all. I made the purchase with pure confidence.
Imagine a company offering the Sonata and then jumping to the Genesis!!!
Owning an 06 Sonata, there is nothing about the car that would make me think twice about buying a Genesis. In fact, quite the opposite. I admit I am not a car nut, but I have no complaints ablout the car. If Genesis is a larger, more modern, more luxurious sibling of my Sonata, I would be more than comfortable owning it.
had Hyundai never brought the Azera to market the Azera has proven to be a 'flop' of sorts - it has never sold well, and further don't believe it was ever accepted as Hyundai's entry in any sort of upscale market, as ou suggest. And now because of the Genesis perhaps it has become a lame duck of sorts for those that can get past the name and spend those bigger bucks. Don't expect the Azera to be around much longer.
Bobad...that statement was generally aimed at those that haven't had the pleasure of owning a Hyundai as of late. You and I both share the same thought, but in the rest of the consumers' eyes...had Hyundai brought the Genesis out after the Sonata (with no Azera in between), it would have been just like VW going from the Passat to the Phaeton...and we all know how that fared.
The Azera wasn't really a flop because those that know about it, for the most part...love it. The problem was that Hyundai didn't put any money behind advertising the Azera and putting in the public eye like they did the Genesis.
Like I said...those that own or have driven an Azera would understand and not have been surprised with the Genesis like most are.
Funny...the Azera is already slated for a refresh in either 2010-11. Even if it isn't around much past that, it bridged the gap between the Sonata and the Genesis.
Now...the real question will be, can the Genesis change perception enough for the American consumer to plop down $60k for the Equus/Prestige should it come to market??? :confuse:
Folks, I don't know what you all are smokin' but Hyundai's quality initiative, in which they changed direction from producing cheap cars to producing quality cars that are a great value, began in 1999, and that is well documented. In that year, the automotive unit split from the non-automotive units of Hyundai and then-Chairman Chung Mong Koo set the company on its quality-driven course. The first fruits of that initiative were arguably the all-new-for-2001 Elantra and Santa Fe, then followed by the "24x7" vehicles (actually 24x8) that began in late 2004 with the all-new Tucson and the redesigned Sonata (unveiled in the US in early 2005), then the 2006 Accent and Azera, etc. Fast-forward to 2008-2009 and we see the latest results of this quality push in the Genesis sedan and coupe, the Veracruz, and the refreshed Sonata. Compare those cars to the likes of the 1999 Sonata (which was simply tweaked for 2002 MY, not redesigned) or the 2001 XG300 and it's like night and day. We continue to see the results of this focus on quality in latest models such as the Elantra Touring, a lower-priced car that has won critical acclaim for its build quality, and soon the Tucson and Sonata replacements that will take Hyundai down its new path--not only a focus on quality but on leading-edge styling and fuel efficiency.
Anyone who thinks the Hyundai of today is even remotely like the Hyundai of 1986, or 1996, or even 2006 has a problem facing reality.
Backy...'99 may have seen some behind the scene changes, but it really wasn't until '02 that the Hyundai cars started looking like something folks may want to take a look at. Compare any pre-'02 Sonata to an '02-05 Sonata, while the mechanics hadn't chagned from the '99-'01years, the style did and the car has to be something that draws a buyer in because it looks good, not simply because it's the best deal for your money as Captain said earlier.
So, maybe the ball was set in motion in '99, but consumers really didn't start to take notice until the '02 model year. You're absolutely right, Hyundai today is not even close to what it was prior to '06. It seems like '06 was the year that Hyundai re-invented themselves for the better.
I guess we will agree to disagree on this. The 2001 Elantra and Santa Fe debuted in the fall of 2000, and I would say that they were something folks wanted to take a look at. (Not to mention the XG300, which was not a bad looking car for that time, drawing comparisons to the Maybach on exterior styling). In those days, the Elantra was Hyundai's best seller, and the Santa Fe garnered strong sales also. Anyway, being good looking and having high quality are not the same thing in my mind. (I actually thought the '99-'01 Sonata was not bad looking.) And 2006 was significant only in that was the year the Gen 4 Elantra and Gen 2 Santa Fe debuted (as 2007 models), but I don't think that was nearly as significant as 2004-5 when the 24x7 program kicked off and the Tucson, Gen 4 Sonata, Gen 3 Accent, and Azera first came out. And of course, the Gen 4 Elantra and Gen 2 Santa Fe were designed mostly prior to 2006.
If you are lucky enough to be a member of the Hyundai Think Tank, there was a recent online discussion about the Azera and its future and what may be included in it as far as tech and accessories. Here is a quote from a Hyundai rep regarding the Azera:
The main focus of the session was around the next generation Azera so please be assured that Azera is here to stay and is not becoming a "dinosaur."
Sorry captain, the Azera isn't going away any time soon.
The next Azera is supposed to get the new Hyundai-made 6-speed tranny. I wonder if Hyundai will drop the Aisin and ZF trannies in the Genesis for the Hyundai-made ones as well. Does anyone think that dropping either of the trannies in the Genesis would be something that would hurt the car's sales?
I'm guessing the new transmission will take the place of 1 or both of the trannies offered in Genesis. Development and production costs are high, so it has to be justified. I don't believe the fact it's made in house will be a negative to prospective Genesis buyers. Hyundai's latest trannies have been solid. I'm taking an educated guess is all.
I have to take issue with this arguement as the "test" being argued is one that essentially can never be tested unless Hyundai raises its prices to be on par with Honda and Toyota.
What you've done is address the discussion of ongoing quality improvements with an arguement whose basis is that as long as Hyudai's are considered the best overall value, they must be of inferior quality. That is a straw man arguement if I've ever seen one.
I could definitely see it replacing the Aisin tranny since it would be mated to the 3.8 that's in both the Genesis and the Azera. I also believe it will find its way into the Sonata as well, further boosting it's fuel economy.
You're right about the Hyundai-made trannies of late. No issues with the one that was in my Sonata, nor any problems with the one in my Azera.
Had a hard time today picking up my fallen jaw from the floor...
Was browsing the showroom of our local Hyundai dealer this morning while waiting for the shuttle to bring me to work (dropped my vehicle in for a minor service). There, in the middle of the showroom, it was - a shiny silver Genesis 4.6, fully loaded. I looked at the price tag - MSRP $42100, alright... and to the right of the window sticker, a small piece of paper titled "Dealer Addendum", stating "Market Adjustment: $2000", and price total: $44100.
ARE THEY KIDDING??? MARKET ADJUSTMENT???
:surprise: :sick: :surprise:
Oh my God. Just when they must make every effort to move these in current lousy economy. Just when many people are wondering, is it WAY too much to pay 30K plus for a Hyundai. Just when automakers compete who gives more incentives and some cars are almost sold as "buy 1, get 1 free", these bozos do MARK-UPs.
On the contrary,since 2006 CR has little negative to say about Hyundai or KIA mid size sedans.I own a KIA Optima EX with the 4 cyl engine and after 26,000 mile have no complaints.Pre 2006 models had all kinds of mechanical problems,which evidently have been fixed in the post 2006 models.No car is perfect,and you bother to check out the Honda Civic Hybrid section, you will see that the iconic Honda brand has as many problems as anyone. Unless you drive a Sonata or an Optima for an extended period of time,IMHO your opinion is just that.An opinion with nothing to back it up. I really think that anyone who basically condems a brand based on their personal prejudices is missing out on some nice "stuff".
Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I beg to differ. In the $16-$22K range, the Sonata was the best family sedan I could find, by far.
In the same vein, I believe the Genesis is the best luxury car in the $30-$40K range. I think resale value will improve, and it will trickle down to all the later model Hyundai's.
not if I read it right- this from Edmund's own explanation of their 'TCO':
For new vehicles, the Total Cash Price, is the sum of a vehicle's True Market Value price (another car-buying tool from Edmunds), typically equipped options, destination charge, base tax for the state and any applicable luxury/gas-guzzler taxes. For used vehicles, the total cash price shown is the sum of the vehicle's Private Party TMV price in "clean" condition plus typically equipped options, and base tax and fees in your state
Edmund's, like others apparewntly uses what they call their TMV (total market value) as a basis for initial costs, this TMV not necessarily being related to MSRP at all but rather touted (by Edmund's) to be a 'target' price after negotiation.
In any case, while it is obviously true that the Hyundai branded product will almost always sell at a higher discount than that Honda product, it also appears that that fact is acounted for in therse 'True-Cost-to Own' calculations
If you think 16 years or so is "recently", I guess that is true. Hyundai started designing their own engines at least that long ago.
From borrowing Mitsubishi engines to providing them for Benz
Hyundai exec talks engine sharing with Benz
WOW could I not agree with that less. When it comes to engines, comparability is about overall performance. A V-6 that gets generates the same HP and torque as an I-4 is more comparable than a comparing two V-6's with drastically different outputs. And the smaller engine with better performance is probably a better buy because of the lower weight, yielding better handling and gas mileage to boot!
Ultimately, it truly depends on what it is you're looking for in a car that will determine just how you will cross shop. The funniest thing...folks post about how they were interested in the Genesis sedan, but then talk about the ES 350, G37 and cars that are smaller. If you were interested in a large sedan to begin with, why are they cross shopping mid-size sedans??? Oh...that's right, because that's all they could get in the price range of the Genesis. Starting to see my point?
I saved $6k to give up a few little hp under the hood and still got all the features and amenites the others had to offer in their cars.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Sorry, if you had mad this statement about 6 years ago...I might have agreed with you. However, value difference between Honda & Hyundai is pretty much dead even. The only place Honda really beats out Hyundai is in resale value, and even that difference is eventually going to be pretty even. To jump out there and mention Honda & Hyundai and then try to bring up R/R, Bently and all those exotics...you're crazy. The exotics will almost have one thing the mass produced vehicles won't...hands on building, exotic materials and gobs of power under the hood.
Regardless of how many Daewoos, Kias, Hyundais, Suzukis and such pepper the automotive landscape, there will always be the R/R's, Bentleys, Lambos and such. Come on, I know you've heard of Yin & Yang!!!
I really like the leather dash trim and the overall cabin quality is very nice in this price range.
I must say though, that on the refinement scale, it didn't feel much different from the V6. Yes, it felt a little more planted and composed over the road, and the power is noticeably better, but that extra power (with very little throttle movement) also resulted in more sudden and intrusive activation of the ESC when I accelerated in corners. I also noted the slightly jittery/busy ride over small road imperfections and textures, and was surprised by the amount of tire noise/howling entering the cabin through the chassis - which became noticeable at about 40 MPH and unmistakable on the highway.
Still though, I'm really picking nits here. It's probably the one of the nicest cars out there for less than $40,000 and I remain impressed with the level of quality and refinement that it has. I would never have guessed that it was a Hyundai in a blind test.
I guess I'll say that, based on some optimistic comments that I've read about the Genesis 4.6 here and elsewhere, I was expecting to be blown away - say a 9 out of 10. What I observed and experienced was more like an 8.5 out of 10. Still excellent - I'd buy one in a heartbeat (either the V6 or V8) if I was looking for some value in a large luxury sedan.
Using the 2006 Azera as an example, it fared extremely well in JDP and even CRs initial rankings but has since retreated substantially. The higher volume Sonata has put up a respectable (if unremarkable) showing for a number of years now - even as far back as 2002. Interestingly one of the simpliest and cheapest Hyundai model does the best, the Elantra.
I think that Hyundai's surge in quality goes hand in hand with the re-design of their fleet of cars and the addition of the Azera to show that they can foray into entry-level luxury. In '02...they simply refreshed what they had and I think more people took notice because now their vehicles weren't the awkward, ugly ducklings on the road. They actually started to look like cars folks would want to own (not just out of financial necessity).
'02 is when Hyundai introduced Shiftronic on the Sonata & the XG. Unheard of feature on a cars of the price range they fell in at the time. The transmission actually proved to be solid, with a greater fewer complaints than on their previous transmissions. Their engines, while not exactly technological wonders...have been better than decent up until the '06 model year when they finally got serious about keeping up with the status quo.
While the re-fresh in '02 made more people take notice, it was the '06 model year that really grabbed folks attention because now Hyundai had cars that folks actually wanted to go take a look at and when they did, were completely surprised by what was being offered. Has their turn around been phenomenal...hardly. However, it has been undeniable. If Hyundai can continue on the path they've been on as of late...they will be mentioned (without chuckles, snorts or guffaws) with Honda & Toyota without hesitation.
As far as consumers with long memories...all it would take is one test drive in a Hyundai to get them second guessing their previous conceptions of Hyundai. Most folks that have a negative view, have never even owned, driven or ridden in one. That's like saying you can't stand sushi, but you've never tried it. Those that have...can't blame them, but again...if they go take a look-see, they'll be pleasantly surprised.
I am not debating the fact that they have expanded and improved their product line. Heck, if GM or Chrysler were fortunate enough to have what Hyundai has to sell, then I bet we all could have saved a bunch of our tax dollars!
That statement is why I bought the 2006 Sonata, and the reason I now trust Hyundai. Their mission used to be to sell the most cars at the highest profit possible. Now the mission is to beat their competitors in quality and price in every niche. I don't even recognize pre-2006 Hyundai as being the same company.
Not saying that Hyundai will stay on track forever. So far they are on track to aceive their goals, improving their cars every year. There are going to be at least 7 new models released in the next 3 years. Not bad for a 5 year old car company.
I also had something to base it on as I had owned an '87 Excel at one point in my life.
Night & day...that's the only way to describe it.
As far as not recognizing anything pre-'06...you really must to put it into perspective of just how far & fast they've started turning around. Honda & Toyota had a 20 year head start on Hyundai and it wasn't until the 80's that they really took off. Hyundai has pretty much followed the same path they laid out. I think the hardest thing to digest is that Hyundai comes from Korea. Korea is just NOT supposed to be producing anything of quailty...it's just NOT supposed to happen! (said tongue in cheek by the way)
This, in a nutshell, is the problem that Hyundai has in selling an upscale car like the Genesis, and is also a big reason why they are less effected by the crappy economy than about everybody else.
Oh...in '02, the purchase was out of necessity and it proved to be a solid move. When I purchased my Azera, I did it without hesitation. Sure I took a look at the Avalon & Maxima just to see what they offered and how much it would cost. However, there was no hesitation on pulling the trigger on my Azera purchase at all. I made the purchase with pure confidence.
Owning an 06 Sonata, there is nothing about the car that would make me think twice about buying a Genesis. In fact, quite the opposite. I admit I am not a car nut, but I have no complaints ablout the car. If Genesis is a larger, more modern, more luxurious sibling of my Sonata, I would be more than comfortable owning it.
the Azera has proven to be a 'flop' of sorts - it has never sold well, and further don't believe it was ever accepted as Hyundai's entry in any sort of upscale market, as ou suggest. And now because of the Genesis perhaps it has become a lame duck of sorts for those that can get past the name and spend those bigger bucks. Don't expect the Azera to be around much longer.
Like I said...those that own or have driven an Azera would understand and not have been surprised with the Genesis like most are.
Funny...the Azera is already slated for a refresh in either 2010-11. Even if it isn't around much past that, it bridged the gap between the Sonata and the Genesis.
Now...the real question will be, can the Genesis change perception enough for the American consumer to plop down $60k for the Equus/Prestige should it come to market??? :confuse:
Anyone who thinks the Hyundai of today is even remotely like the Hyundai of 1986, or 1996, or even 2006 has a problem facing reality.
So, maybe the ball was set in motion in '99, but consumers really didn't start to take notice until the '02 model year. You're absolutely right, Hyundai today is not even close to what it was prior to '06. It seems like '06 was the year that Hyundai re-invented themselves for the better.
The main focus of the session was around the next generation Azera so please be assured that Azera is here to stay and is not becoming a "dinosaur."
Sorry captain, the Azera isn't going away any time soon.
What you've done is address the discussion of ongoing quality improvements with an arguement whose basis is that as long as Hyudai's are considered the best overall value, they must be of inferior quality. That is a straw man arguement if I've ever seen one.
You're right about the Hyundai-made trannies of late. No issues with the one that was in my Sonata, nor any problems with the one in my Azera.
Was browsing the showroom of our local Hyundai dealer this morning while waiting for the shuttle to bring me to work (dropped my vehicle in for a minor service). There, in the middle of the showroom, it was - a shiny silver Genesis 4.6, fully loaded. I looked at the price tag - MSRP $42100, alright... and to the right of the window sticker, a small piece of paper titled "Dealer Addendum", stating "Market Adjustment: $2000", and price total: $44100.
ARE THEY KIDDING???
MARKET ADJUSTMENT???
:surprise: :sick: :surprise:
Oh my God. Just when they must make every effort to move these in current lousy economy. Just when many people are wondering, is it WAY too much to pay 30K plus for a Hyundai. Just when automakers compete who gives more incentives and some cars are almost sold as "buy 1, get 1 free", these bozos do MARK-UPs.
Ouch.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Unless you drive a Sonata or an Optima for an extended period of time,IMHO your opinion is just that.An opinion with nothing to back it up.
I really think that anyone who basically condems a brand based on their personal prejudices is missing out on some nice "stuff".