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Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I beg to differ. In the $16-$22K range, the Sonata was the best family sedan I could find, by far.
In the same vein, I believe the Genesis is the best luxury car in the $30-$40K range. I think resale value will improve, and it will trickle down to all the later model Hyundai's.
not if I read it right- this from Edmund's own explanation of their 'TCO':
For new vehicles, the Total Cash Price, is the sum of a vehicle's True Market Value price (another car-buying tool from Edmunds), typically equipped options, destination charge, base tax for the state and any applicable luxury/gas-guzzler taxes. For used vehicles, the total cash price shown is the sum of the vehicle's Private Party TMV price in "clean" condition plus typically equipped options, and base tax and fees in your state
Edmund's, like others apparewntly uses what they call their TMV (total market value) as a basis for initial costs, this TMV not necessarily being related to MSRP at all but rather touted (by Edmund's) to be a 'target' price after negotiation.
In any case, while it is obviously true that the Hyundai branded product will almost always sell at a higher discount than that Honda product, it also appears that that fact is acounted for in therse 'True-Cost-to Own' calculations
If you think 16 years or so is "recently", I guess that is true. Hyundai started designing their own engines at least that long ago.
From borrowing Mitsubishi engines to providing them for Benz
Hyundai exec talks engine sharing with Benz
WOW could I not agree with that less. When it comes to engines, comparability is about overall performance. A V-6 that gets generates the same HP and torque as an I-4 is more comparable than a comparing two V-6's with drastically different outputs. And the smaller engine with better performance is probably a better buy because of the lower weight, yielding better handling and gas mileage to boot!
Ultimately, it truly depends on what it is you're looking for in a car that will determine just how you will cross shop. The funniest thing...folks post about how they were interested in the Genesis sedan, but then talk about the ES 350, G37 and cars that are smaller. If you were interested in a large sedan to begin with, why are they cross shopping mid-size sedans??? Oh...that's right, because that's all they could get in the price range of the Genesis. Starting to see my point?
I saved $6k to give up a few little hp under the hood and still got all the features and amenites the others had to offer in their cars.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Sorry, if you had mad this statement about 6 years ago...I might have agreed with you. However, value difference between Honda & Hyundai is pretty much dead even. The only place Honda really beats out Hyundai is in resale value, and even that difference is eventually going to be pretty even. To jump out there and mention Honda & Hyundai and then try to bring up R/R, Bently and all those exotics...you're crazy. The exotics will almost have one thing the mass produced vehicles won't...hands on building, exotic materials and gobs of power under the hood.
Regardless of how many Daewoos, Kias, Hyundais, Suzukis and such pepper the automotive landscape, there will always be the R/R's, Bentleys, Lambos and such. Come on, I know you've heard of Yin & Yang!!!
I really like the leather dash trim and the overall cabin quality is very nice in this price range.
I must say though, that on the refinement scale, it didn't feel much different from the V6. Yes, it felt a little more planted and composed over the road, and the power is noticeably better, but that extra power (with very little throttle movement) also resulted in more sudden and intrusive activation of the ESC when I accelerated in corners. I also noted the slightly jittery/busy ride over small road imperfections and textures, and was surprised by the amount of tire noise/howling entering the cabin through the chassis - which became noticeable at about 40 MPH and unmistakable on the highway.
Still though, I'm really picking nits here. It's probably the one of the nicest cars out there for less than $40,000 and I remain impressed with the level of quality and refinement that it has. I would never have guessed that it was a Hyundai in a blind test.
I guess I'll say that, based on some optimistic comments that I've read about the Genesis 4.6 here and elsewhere, I was expecting to be blown away - say a 9 out of 10. What I observed and experienced was more like an 8.5 out of 10. Still excellent - I'd buy one in a heartbeat (either the V6 or V8) if I was looking for some value in a large luxury sedan.
Using the 2006 Azera as an example, it fared extremely well in JDP and even CRs initial rankings but has since retreated substantially. The higher volume Sonata has put up a respectable (if unremarkable) showing for a number of years now - even as far back as 2002. Interestingly one of the simpliest and cheapest Hyundai model does the best, the Elantra.
I think that Hyundai's surge in quality goes hand in hand with the re-design of their fleet of cars and the addition of the Azera to show that they can foray into entry-level luxury. In '02...they simply refreshed what they had and I think more people took notice because now their vehicles weren't the awkward, ugly ducklings on the road. They actually started to look like cars folks would want to own (not just out of financial necessity).
'02 is when Hyundai introduced Shiftronic on the Sonata & the XG. Unheard of feature on a cars of the price range they fell in at the time. The transmission actually proved to be solid, with a greater fewer complaints than on their previous transmissions. Their engines, while not exactly technological wonders...have been better than decent up until the '06 model year when they finally got serious about keeping up with the status quo.
While the re-fresh in '02 made more people take notice, it was the '06 model year that really grabbed folks attention because now Hyundai had cars that folks actually wanted to go take a look at and when they did, were completely surprised by what was being offered. Has their turn around been phenomenal...hardly. However, it has been undeniable. If Hyundai can continue on the path they've been on as of late...they will be mentioned (without chuckles, snorts or guffaws) with Honda & Toyota without hesitation.
As far as consumers with long memories...all it would take is one test drive in a Hyundai to get them second guessing their previous conceptions of Hyundai. Most folks that have a negative view, have never even owned, driven or ridden in one. That's like saying you can't stand sushi, but you've never tried it. Those that have...can't blame them, but again...if they go take a look-see, they'll be pleasantly surprised.
I am not debating the fact that they have expanded and improved their product line. Heck, if GM or Chrysler were fortunate enough to have what Hyundai has to sell, then I bet we all could have saved a bunch of our tax dollars!
That statement is why I bought the 2006 Sonata, and the reason I now trust Hyundai. Their mission used to be to sell the most cars at the highest profit possible. Now the mission is to beat their competitors in quality and price in every niche. I don't even recognize pre-2006 Hyundai as being the same company.
Not saying that Hyundai will stay on track forever. So far they are on track to aceive their goals, improving their cars every year. There are going to be at least 7 new models released in the next 3 years. Not bad for a 5 year old car company.
I also had something to base it on as I had owned an '87 Excel at one point in my life.
Night & day...that's the only way to describe it.
As far as not recognizing anything pre-'06...you really must to put it into perspective of just how far & fast they've started turning around. Honda & Toyota had a 20 year head start on Hyundai and it wasn't until the 80's that they really took off. Hyundai has pretty much followed the same path they laid out. I think the hardest thing to digest is that Hyundai comes from Korea. Korea is just NOT supposed to be producing anything of quailty...it's just NOT supposed to happen! (said tongue in cheek by the way)
This, in a nutshell, is the problem that Hyundai has in selling an upscale car like the Genesis, and is also a big reason why they are less effected by the crappy economy than about everybody else.
Oh...in '02, the purchase was out of necessity and it proved to be a solid move. When I purchased my Azera, I did it without hesitation. Sure I took a look at the Avalon & Maxima just to see what they offered and how much it would cost. However, there was no hesitation on pulling the trigger on my Azera purchase at all. I made the purchase with pure confidence.
Owning an 06 Sonata, there is nothing about the car that would make me think twice about buying a Genesis. In fact, quite the opposite. I admit I am not a car nut, but I have no complaints ablout the car. If Genesis is a larger, more modern, more luxurious sibling of my Sonata, I would be more than comfortable owning it.
the Azera has proven to be a 'flop' of sorts - it has never sold well, and further don't believe it was ever accepted as Hyundai's entry in any sort of upscale market, as ou suggest. And now because of the Genesis perhaps it has become a lame duck of sorts for those that can get past the name and spend those bigger bucks. Don't expect the Azera to be around much longer.
Like I said...those that own or have driven an Azera would understand and not have been surprised with the Genesis like most are.
Funny...the Azera is already slated for a refresh in either 2010-11. Even if it isn't around much past that, it bridged the gap between the Sonata and the Genesis.
Now...the real question will be, can the Genesis change perception enough for the American consumer to plop down $60k for the Equus/Prestige should it come to market??? :confuse:
Anyone who thinks the Hyundai of today is even remotely like the Hyundai of 1986, or 1996, or even 2006 has a problem facing reality.
So, maybe the ball was set in motion in '99, but consumers really didn't start to take notice until the '02 model year. You're absolutely right, Hyundai today is not even close to what it was prior to '06. It seems like '06 was the year that Hyundai re-invented themselves for the better.
The main focus of the session was around the next generation Azera so please be assured that Azera is here to stay and is not becoming a "dinosaur."
Sorry captain, the Azera isn't going away any time soon.
What you've done is address the discussion of ongoing quality improvements with an arguement whose basis is that as long as Hyudai's are considered the best overall value, they must be of inferior quality. That is a straw man arguement if I've ever seen one.
You're right about the Hyundai-made trannies of late. No issues with the one that was in my Sonata, nor any problems with the one in my Azera.
Was browsing the showroom of our local Hyundai dealer this morning while waiting for the shuttle to bring me to work (dropped my vehicle in for a minor service). There, in the middle of the showroom, it was - a shiny silver Genesis 4.6, fully loaded. I looked at the price tag - MSRP $42100, alright... and to the right of the window sticker, a small piece of paper titled "Dealer Addendum", stating "Market Adjustment: $2000", and price total: $44100.
ARE THEY KIDDING???
MARKET ADJUSTMENT???
:surprise: :sick: :surprise:
Oh my God. Just when they must make every effort to move these in current lousy economy. Just when many people are wondering, is it WAY too much to pay 30K plus for a Hyundai. Just when automakers compete who gives more incentives and some cars are almost sold as "buy 1, get 1 free", these bozos do MARK-UPs.
Ouch.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Unless you drive a Sonata or an Optima for an extended period of time,IMHO your opinion is just that.An opinion with nothing to back it up.
I really think that anyone who basically condems a brand based on their personal prejudices is missing out on some nice "stuff".