I think you are correct. The flush is easier for the tech and the dealer can justify the higher price because a special machine is needed so it's a new profit center.
the electronic trans has a fluid temp sensor,so its near impossible to overheat the fluid,the computer takes action to lower the temp by changing gears.
Let us hope that the CVT or other new variety of "automatic" transmission will become developed and competitive. Obviously I am not in the transmission repair business! (:oÞ
The temperature sensor inside the tranny is there to adjust the line presssure to compensate for the viscosity changes cold to warm ATF.....in an absolute emergency it will lock the tranny in fail safe but by then it is too late for the ATF.
Again owners allow 13,000,000 transmissions to fail prematurely each year, obviously with the average car on the road being 8 years old....the failure rates for the average car are much much higher than those for 1,2,3 years covered by warranty and some now have up to 7 years warranty.
CVT are failing in record numbers [so don't necessarily count on this technology to extend life beyond 8 years!
The ones to have in a few years will be the ZF 6 speed conventional AT.....or the old Lexus 4 speed, GM 4 speed.......even my Q45 tranny lasted 174k and many 94 and later are getting 250k and 9 years.
>The temperature sensor inside the tranny is there to adjust the line presssure to compensate for the viscosity changes cold to warm ATF.....in an absolute emergency it will lock the tranny in fail safe but by then it is too late for the ATF.<
What is the point of taking action when its too late,the manufacture can set the sensor too any setting it deems necessary.
I think because destruction in an AT occurs at a faster rate than any fail-safe system could monitor without causing a nuisance in everyday driving conditions.
Think of your engine temp gauge. By the time a modern alloy engine has registered "HOT" on the gauge, it's often already toast. You probably would not tolerate engine shut-downs at 200 degrees.
Nissans [Mustang Cobra ---all aluminum block engines] for example start reducing the ignition advance when the coolant exceeds 195F usually 1 degree per 5 F increment.
Manufacturers all design [test] tranny for x number of shifts at y average torque at 176F ATF temperature. Well documented test of ATF show when and how it loses specifications vs number of hours vs average temperature.
After all the manufctures have no interest in over designing something which will greatly exceed the warranty period [unless they are building a reputation -Lexus, Infiniti, maybe GM]
with 50-50 water/coolant and proper radiator pressure cap will run all day at 250*F with no damage.The problem comes when the coolant level drops below the head do to leakage,then you have big problems.
Sure it wil run at 250F but the design temperature is 176-185F. Obviously you have not examined the software parameters in modern ecu, most go out of adaptive control when the coolant exceeds 210F. OBD2 is very fussy about coolant temperature! Not to mention knock sensors which are only rated at 300F maximum and typically reach 50F higher than coolant because of being bolted to head in valley with reduce air flow!
Most don't realize that the temperature [coolant temp] sensor for the inside gauge is designed to react slow and very inaccurately until it is too late!
okay, here's the problem. I have a 1992 Integra LS coupe with a 5-speed transmission. About 3 months ago i noticed that the car was not allowing me to shift into 3rd gear without being forced. I took it to an acura dealership and they said that the clutch linkage was loose and they tightend it. That fixed the problem for about 2 weeks. Then the problem returned and the clutch pedal felt really light, like it was about to fall off. I took it back to the dealership and they said i neede a new clutch. I went to an auto repair shop a few days later and they said the clutch linkage was loose and they tightend it. I said this had already been done but they said that it had come loose again. Now the clutch pedal feels normal but i have to force the car into every gear and it has a tendency not to go all the way into first gear, forcing me to put the clutch in, shift it as far as it will go, then let the clutch out a little and allow it to slip the rest of the way in. Is this a common problem with old integras?
I have a slight leak from the front seal of trans. I added some stop leak stuff around 300-400 miles ago. It didn't stop leaking. What's the cost of replacing seal? My mechanic said it's a 2 day job for him and it should cost around $400. Since it's mostly labor, would a transmission shop be better able to drop the trans. using less labor? Any comments/suggestions? It has 70,000 miles.
I've seen Japanese cars with cable actuated clutch release. Some even have "reverse architecture" and by that, I mean that as the clutch plate wears, the cable needs to be adjusted to a longer length, which seems counter intuitive. It has to do with the fulcrum for the lever that pulls back the throw out bearing. I am just wondering if you are suffering serious clutch plate wear, and the adjuster mechanism for the actuation is getting unstable at the extreme position at which it must reside. In short, you may be in need of a clutch job.
Big mistake using stop leak. What you want is a "seal job" for both front and rear trans seal. Shop around and get some quotes. Franchise transmission shops may quote you less but many of them are scary places. What you'd want ideally is a speciality transmission shop that has been in business in your area for a long time with the same owners.
The reason I am suggesting caution is that it is not unheard of for a franchise trans. shop to quote you a low price for a seal job, only to either a) suggest other services such as flush, filter kit, etc) or b) find "other problems", such as "oh, your front seal is leaking because the blah blah is worn badly, so we need to blah, blah for $1,200.
Your transmission is now out and on the floor, so what options do you have here?
2000 chevrolet metro, 1.0L, 3 cyl, 5 speed, 115,000 miles. I have to hold the shifter in position, or it will pop out of 5th gear. What could cause this, and is it something your average non-mechanic could fix, or will it need to go to a shop? Thanks for your response.
HAVE 01 HYUNDAI XG300L WITH ABOUT 27000 MILES ON IT. WHEN ENGINE IS STONE COLD AT FIRST START IN THE MORNING AND OUTSIDE TEMP IS BELOW 32 DEGREES FARENHEIT, HAVE TO RUN ENGINE FOR ABOUT 1-2 MINUTES, OR TRANNY WILL TAKE 3-5 SECONDS BEFORE IT ENGAGES INTO DRIVE OR REVERSE. ONCE ENGINE IS WARMED UP TRANNY TAKES ABOUT A HAFF TO ONE SECOND TO ENGAGE WHICH I GUESS IS NORMAL. DEALER HAS TOLD ME ALL THIS "PERFECTLY NORMAL". wHAT DO YOU THINK MR. SHIFTRIGHT??????? OTHER THAN THIS CAR IS GREAT AND AM VERY HAPPY WITH IT, HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS SINCE I GOT CAR ABOUT 15 MONTHS AGO.
I do not know that particular transmission, but my general knowledge suggests that you may have a shifting fork that is so badly worn that it no longer moves the 5th gear far enough into engagement when you shift. Consequently, the gear pops back out of the partial engagement. Years ago I had a Chevrolet doing that (but a 3 speed manual, not a 5); so I yanked the tranny onto my chest, lying prone on a gravel driveway. I opened the cases and found the worn parts, replaced them, and put it all back together. Voila! Done deal.
Either a worn shift fork as Fleetwood suggested (usually caused by resting your hand on the shift lever and applying constant pressure to the shift fork), or excessive end play in the 5th speed gear. It's a helical cut gear and will "walk" along it's shaft under load.
this is sometimes called "morning sickness" (or used to be, before we became more poltically correct), and it isn't "normal" for a car with 27K on it. You should have the dealer make note of this reported condition and its symptoms on a dealer repair order so that you have a record of this problem having occurred during warranty.
You might try a fluid change to a synthetic a/t fluid if the warranty permits. Either a seal or some part in the valve body (hydraulic labyrinth) isn't too happy, but it could run a long time this way.
Joe, way back when we were discussing 4L60E's with DTC 1870 and harsh 1-2 upshift. Here's the info re Sonnax repair kits to save valve body replacement. BTW, their catalog lists causes and corrections on the parts pages.
Sonnax offers 3 different parts for the code 1870 on the 4L60E model. The following is a list of them:
* TCC Regulator Valve Kit Part # 77754-04k for 1998 up, and 77754-03k for the 93-97 years.
* TCC Apply Valve Part # 77805-k for the Non- PWM, and 77805e-k for the PWM only.
* Actuator Feed Limit Valve Kit part# 77754-09k which requires a reamer kit #77754-TL
I have a 98 Explorer (102k miles) with the 5R55E tranny. The previous owner never had an auxiliary tranny cooler because they said they never towed with it. I want to buy a decent auxiliary cooler but don't know what is a good cooler. I want to make this transmission see 150k+ miles because its not a cheap one to replace.
Some of the kits I have seen have the "splice kits" that tap the tranny lines where they meet the radiator. Are these sufficient or do I need something better? I have also heard that I should order the factory tranny lines with the taps for the auxiliary cooler already in them. Any opinions on this?
I am driving an '88 Lincoln Towncar with 105,000 miles on it and it seems the transmission refuses to shift into 3rd and 4th gear. I have posted this problem in a wrong place and Mister Shift Right (thanks) has asked me to post my problems here so that I can get help. It starts with first gear and changed into 2nd when the car reaches 15 mph but nothing happens after that and when it reahes 40, the engine revs up but the car does not accelerate...it seems as if it is on neutral... Do I have to replace the whole transmission and if I do, how much life will the car have? Is there any alternatives short of replacing the transmission and/or being stuck in local/within 20 sq. miles of my home because the car won't get onto the highway?
Ford used 2 setups for the transmission throttle valve (tv) linkage, rod and cable, to provide shift delay and automatic increase in trans oil pressure as the throttle opens. Both attach at the lower end to the trans and at the upper end to the engine throttle body. If it's the rod type (I think that's the setup on yours) check for linkage sticking or binding, usually sticks where the lever enters the trans. Free it up and you're good to go.
If it's the cable type, might have a problem. Check the cable attachment at the engine throttle body. It's held in place by a nylon bushing which eventually cracks and falls out, disconnecting the cable. If the car's been driven any distance with the cable disconnected there's probably internal trans damage due to no line pressure increase as the throttle opens and more torque load is placed on the trans.
If the linkage is in place, adjusted and working properly, then either direct clutch failure or damaged direct input shaft/converter drive hub failure. Either requires trans overhaul.
A good place to get a tranny cooler is bulkpart.com which has a good selection. Best ones are the high flow plate and not the tube type. Mounting is always a pain unless you have access to metalworking equipment. My 97 Explorer came without one and I just cut the line (the cooler one) going to the transmision. Use at least three clamps if you connect onto the line because there are no barbs to securely hold it. I would also suggest you add an inline filter at the same time. These are suggested by Ford and are available on the same site for about $15. I uses a spin on oil filter for mine because it is more cost effective. They also have the top of the line internal SPX transmission filter (this is the OEM mfg.) for only $10 vs the $22 Taiwan one from Autozone. You need to order the gasket seperately and you can transfer the O rings. I can guarantee you that the valve body bolts will be loose and they should be tightened to 7-8 ft-lb which is just a ood twist. The 5R55E is notorious for blowing out valve body gaskets, this is one reason. I always throw a couple extra magnets in the pan when it is down. Don't be too concerned if the strip magnet is covered with metal dust. Never take your transmission to be flushed!
My 1990 Honda Accord recently started displaying a bunch of transmission problems. The transmission takes a second or two to drop into reverse when shifted, the "sport" shift dash indicator stays lit no matter whether the button on the floor shifter is depressed or not. Also, and more concerning, the car seems sluggish when started from a dead stop, and doesn't seem to go into 4th gear at highway speeds.
Have any of you had a similar problem?
One transmission shop is telling me it may cost $1800 to fix. Does that make any sense?
I own a 96 s10 blazer 2 doors 4x4. I remove all the pan bolts, lower the front end of the transmission pan with no problem, lower the rear end of the pan about an inch and it gets stuck at the transmission mounting crossmember. Thanks for any input!
Undo the rear mount and jack the back of the trans up. It's tight, but should clear the exhaust. Be careful not to damage the converter clutch solenoid sticking down just inside the front of the pan.
Honda automatics are substantially different from most of the rest of the world's, but the warning modes are similar: what's going on here is that something that's supposed to be talking to the engine computer isn't, and the transmission has reverted to 3-speed operation as a precautionary measure. The dashboard light goes on to advise that there's a problem.
If the tranny requires a rebuild, $1800 isn't out of the ordinary.
Brand new MiniCooper with automatic transmission erratically gets stuck in 'limp home mode.' This symptom won't allow the car to go faster than about 30 mph. This problem has been intermittent and ceases after you shut down and restart. This is a big problem when trying to get the dealer to witness the problem. We have had the car in the dealer 4 times totalling over 15 days. The computer doesn't store any faults which leads me to suspect the computer, however Mini's tech people have replaced the wiring harness as a fix. We are willing to try this one more time, but ready to pursue the Lemon Law if it happens again. The syndrome that the car goes into is dangerous and could be deadly if it happens on say a freeway entrance ramp. We have not been impressed with the service of Mini or the dealership. Has anyone heard of this problem happening with any other car? Sincerely Frustrated, Tony D
My suggestion: When it happens again, drive it straight to the dealership in "limp mode" and do not shut it off when you get there. Do it nicely, but demand a tech look at it right then.
When engaging the clutch there often is a clunk sound prior to the car moving. It is just over three years old with about 46000 miles. I have driven standard transmissions for a long time and this noise is new to me. Any ideas as to the noise source and remedies? Thanks.
Thanks, alcan I have hoped that it would warm up so I could check out anything obvious. Hope I can see it out without my wife running me over. I will tell her the life insurance policy ran out.
ha ha Try this, it won't get you run over and might show up a bad mount. With the hood up, engine off, trans in 1st gear, rock the car back and forward, looking for excessive movement of the engine/transaxle.
No suggestions from Auburn in the Honda forum? He's a walking Honda encyclopedia.
Thanks Alcan, I will try the rocking test and I will see if Auburn is up. Thanks Mr. Shiftright for your guess. Can cv joints be changed at home by an average do it your selfer? I would like my son to learn with me if possible.
I have a strange situation with my 95 Dodge Neon Highline SOHC purchased new in December 94. It was cool being one of the Neon Pioneers! Anyway, when starting out cold, the atx shifts fairly well and timelty from 1 to 2, or maybe just a touch late. Then it basically refuse to shift from 2 to 3. I'll easily be doing 3250+ rpm at about 45mph without a hint of it wanting to shift. This happens the same while under light, moderate, or heavy acceleration. Don't despare, eventually it does shift, after about 30 seconds of high reving. When it does decide to start shifting, it seems to hang out in neutral for about 4-6 seconds before engaging. This really bothers me. Any suggestions of what I can do to further diagnose this problem or what potential repairs might be? I have had the atx fluid changed twice, once at about 62,000m, and about a month or two ago at 96,000m. Currently 97,200m.
If you thought you had this figured out, let me add something else. After the car has been driven just a few minutes with everything heated up, all atx shifts occure promptly and quickly. You'd never know that there was any problem at all. This has me confused. My wife is afraid to drive the car for fear that the atx will die and leave her stranded (without a cell phone).
Thanks in advance for you input from a new member to the board.
It has a 31TH transaxle, no electronic controls, doesn't use TPS or any other sensor input.
Follow the shifter cable to the lever it's attached to at the transaxle. There's another shorter, upper lever there for the throttle valve (tv) cable. It's rod is inside the manual shift linkage tube. They're bad for seizing together. Make sure the tv lever moves smoothly, without bind, throughout it's range of travel.
If ok, it probably has worn front clutch seals and you're into an overhaul. An oil pressure test will verify.
As described in 1163, and responded to by Windowphobe6 in 1166, my accord will only use 3rd gear in the "D-4" detent. I can get first gear if I put the shifter into "1". I then upshift to "D-3" at 15-20 mph.
Question-
if this is a communication problem, as Windowphobe6 suggests, could a computer or electrical fix solve the problem without opening up the transmission and getting a big repair bill. Would a computer problem be cheaper to fix than $1800?
If they have to open the transmission for a 2K bill, I'll probably donate the car.
What's wrong with having the transmission flushed? I'm thinking about having it done on my '99 Olds Intrigue. The service advisor said it will remove all of the fluid, as opposed to a partial replacement of fluid with the drain and refill method. Anyways, they want $150 to flush the system and $125 to drop the pan, replace the filter, and refill the tranny fluid. The price difference isn't too great. Which one is best? I have 50K miles, by the way.
We always recommend a pan drop before a flush as the pan and magnet will need cleaning and the internal metal screen filter [changed] will have some shaved off metal from the planetary gears......at least the first time from the zero to 10k breakin period.
Then the flush will exchange the heat destroyed ATF [it has a temperature sensitive dye to warn you] when the sparkling red turns washed out slightly red.......tan/brown/black is death!
All depends on how long you want the tranny to last as it is possible for them to go 250,000-300,000 miles with good ATF change habits.
They were going to change the oil on your car, not change the filter, and charge you $150 would that sound like a good idea. Neither of your options sounds like a great way to spend money. You should be able to get the pan dropped and filter changed for closer to $50. Do that every 2 years or 30K and you will be better off. At 50K a flush certainly wont do any harm if they don't add any cleaning chemicals. Some transmissions are dirtier than others and the only way to clean them is to drop the pan. You have fallen prey to a lot of hype.
Thanks for the information about the transmission service. Luckily I have not done it yet. By the way, where can I get it done for around $50? Is there a chain you guys recommend, like Aamco, or is it best to take it to a mom & pop transmission shop?
I changed my ATF at 30K miles. I am planning on doing just that every 30K miles. So I won't flush the fluid, or drop the pan to clean it, or change the filter.
Assuming the above, what do you guys think the life expectancy of my transmission might be? My car is a Maxima, if that matters.
Comments
Again owners allow 13,000,000 transmissions to fail prematurely each year, obviously with the average car on the road being 8 years old....the failure rates for the average car are much much higher than those for 1,2,3 years covered by warranty and some now have up to 7 years warranty.
CVT are failing in record numbers [so don't necessarily count on this technology to extend life beyond 8 years!
The ones to have in a few years will be the ZF 6 speed conventional AT.....or the old Lexus 4 speed, GM 4 speed.......even my Q45 tranny lasted 174k and many 94 and later are getting 250k and 9 years.
What is the point of taking action when its too late,the manufacture can set the sensor too any setting it deems necessary.
Think of your engine temp gauge. By the time a modern alloy engine has registered "HOT" on the gauge, it's often already toast. You probably would not tolerate engine shut-downs at 200 degrees.
Manufacturers all design [test] tranny for x number of shifts at y average torque at 176F ATF temperature.
Well documented test of ATF show when and how it loses specifications vs number of hours vs average temperature.
After all the manufctures have no interest in over designing something which will greatly exceed the warranty period [unless they are building a reputation -Lexus, Infiniti, maybe GM]
OBD2 is very fussy about coolant temperature! Not to mention knock sensors which are only rated at 300F maximum and typically reach 50F higher than coolant because of being bolted to head in valley with reduce air flow!
Most don't realize that the temperature [coolant temp] sensor for the inside gauge is designed to react slow and very inaccurately until it is too late!
The reason I am suggesting caution is that it is not unheard of for a franchise trans. shop to quote you a low price for a seal job, only to either a) suggest other services such as flush, filter kit, etc) or b) find "other problems", such as "oh, your front seal is leaking because the blah blah is worn badly, so we need to blah, blah for $1,200.
Your transmission is now out and on the floor, so what options do you have here?
Shop around but don't only shop price.
You might try a fluid change to a synthetic a/t fluid if the warranty permits. Either a seal or some part in the valve body (hydraulic labyrinth) isn't too happy, but it could run a long time this way.
Sonnax offers 3 different parts for the code 1870 on the 4L60E model. The following is a list of them:
* TCC Regulator Valve Kit Part # 77754-04k for 1998 up, and 77754-03k for the 93-97 years.
* TCC Apply Valve Part # 77805-k for the Non- PWM, and 77805e-k for the PWM only.
* Actuator Feed Limit Valve Kit part# 77754-09k which requires a reamer kit #77754-TL
I have a 98 Explorer (102k miles) with the 5R55E tranny. The previous owner never had an auxiliary tranny cooler because they said they never towed with it. I want to buy a decent auxiliary cooler but don't know what is a good cooler. I want to make this transmission see 150k+ miles because its not a cheap one to replace.
Some of the kits I have seen have the "splice kits" that tap the tranny lines where they meet the radiator. Are these sufficient or do I need something better? I have also heard that I should order the factory tranny lines with the taps for the auxiliary cooler already in them. Any opinions on this?
Thanks for the help
It starts with first gear and changed into 2nd when the car reaches 15 mph but nothing happens after that and when it reahes 40, the engine revs up but the car does not accelerate...it seems as if it is on neutral...
Do I have to replace the whole transmission and if I do, how much life will the car have? Is there any alternatives short of replacing the transmission and/or being stuck in local/within 20 sq. miles of my home because the car won't get onto the highway?
If it's the cable type, might have a problem. Check the cable attachment at the engine throttle body. It's held in place by a nylon bushing which eventually cracks and falls out, disconnecting the cable. If the car's been driven any distance with the cable disconnected there's probably internal trans damage due to no line pressure increase as the throttle opens and more torque load is placed on the trans.
If the linkage is in place, adjusted and working properly, then either direct clutch failure or damaged direct input shaft/converter drive hub failure. Either requires trans overhaul.
Have any of you had a similar problem?
One transmission shop is telling me it may cost $1800 to fix. Does that make any sense?
What do rebuilt transmissions cost?
If the tranny requires a rebuild, $1800 isn't out of the ordinary.
We are willing to try this one more time, but ready to pursue the Lemon Law if it happens again. The syndrome that the car goes into is dangerous and could be deadly if it happens on say a freeway entrance ramp. We have not been impressed with the service of Mini or the dealership.
Has anyone heard of this problem happening with any other car?
Sincerely Frustrated,
Tony D
No suggestions from Auburn in the Honda forum? He's a walking Honda encyclopedia.
Thanks Mr. Shiftright for your guess. Can cv joints be changed at home by an average do it your selfer? I would like my son to learn with me if possible.
If you thought you had this figured out, let me add something else. After the car has been driven just a few minutes with everything heated up, all atx shifts occure promptly and quickly. You'd never know that there was any problem at all. This has me confused. My wife is afraid to drive the car for fear that the atx will die and leave her stranded (without a cell phone).
Thanks in advance for you input from a new member to the board.
G.
Follow the shifter cable to the lever it's attached to at the transaxle. There's another shorter, upper lever there for the throttle valve (tv) cable. It's rod is inside the manual shift linkage tube. They're bad for seizing together. Make sure the tv lever moves smoothly, without bind, throughout it's range of travel.
If ok, it probably has worn front clutch seals and you're into an overhaul. An oil pressure test will verify.
Question-
if this is a communication problem, as Windowphobe6 suggests, could a computer or electrical fix solve the problem without opening up the transmission and getting a big repair bill. Would a computer problem be cheaper to fix than $1800?
If they have to open the transmission for a 2K bill, I'll probably donate the car.
What's wrong with having the transmission flushed? I'm thinking about having it done on my '99 Olds Intrigue. The service advisor said it will remove all of the fluid, as opposed to a partial replacement of fluid with the drain and refill method. Anyways, they want $150 to flush the system and $125 to drop the pan, replace the filter, and refill the tranny fluid. The price difference isn't too great. Which one is best? I have 50K miles, by the way.
Then the flush will exchange the heat destroyed ATF [it has a temperature sensitive dye to warn you] when the sparkling red turns washed out slightly red.......tan/brown/black is death!
All depends on how long you want the tranny to last as it is possible for them to go 250,000-300,000 miles with good ATF change habits.
Assuming the above, what do you guys think the life expectancy of my transmission might be? My car is a Maxima, if that matters.
Thanks!