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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    I'm pretty sure the Fusion would have finished ahead of the Camry if it was in the comparo. Well Consumer Reports gave the Avenger (twin of the Sebring) some attention. Too bad it wasn't positive as they said it was crude and cheap. It's one the worst cars in the segment if the auto media is to be believed. Most notably its interior quality gets slammed. It'll take time for the Malibu to get over the rental cat stigma but I suspect the Sebring/Avenger will remain darlings of the rental car companies. I'm not even sure Chrysler will survive as a car company.
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  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think it's more a matter of comparing the newly redesigned models against the best sellers. We all know pretty much all their is to know about the Fusion. When a new redesigned Fusion comes out I'm sure their will be plenty of comparisons done with it included.

    My thoughts exactly (about comparing the new guy against the annual sales-victors).
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  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    I'm glad to see that someone has some love for a Sebring.I have owned lots of Mopars including a 97 T&C Lxi, that is still running at over 150K. I read all of the reviews and it seems like the Mopars in general seem to go to the bottom of the lists.
    Having said that,my KIA does seem to have a much nicer fit and finish than any Mopar I have ever bought.If Chevy can do that with their Bu, why cant Chrysler with the Sebring? :confuse:
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  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    I'm not even sure Chrysler will survive as a car company.

    A lot of people share that opinion. It will be interesting to see where Cerberus takes the company.
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  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    And, therein lies the problem . . . Honda sells itself whether there are other valid market choices or not. Many Honda buyers turn a blind eye to any other competitor, and simply buy Honda. Historically, it's tended to be a safe bet. This was also reasonably true with Toyota, but everyone knows what's happening with some of their products now. Thus, one has to be careful basing a major purchase totally on a historical track record and perception. This mind set is exactly why so many people got burned by continuing to buy Detroit products, and were unwilling to initially give Asian products a chance a few decades ago.


    When you're betting $25k don't you want the safe bet?

    So what am I supposed to base my decision on? A test drive? JD Powers? CR? Or a combination of everything? I think using all the possible information combined, I would come up with the same common denominator.

    Perception is largely formed by reality.
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  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Has anybody seen that Kia commercial that has the salesman gyrating, dancing, sweating and getting water poured over him? That thing is enough to make me never visit a Kia showroom. Maybe they are trying reverse psychology like the "Head On" commercials. It maybe makes you remember the name. However, in my case, it also makes me to remember to not buy their product.
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  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    There are plenty of commercials that don't make much sense to me also. The "maniac" salesman doesn't sound like someone I want to meet. :(
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  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    We took a safe bet when we bought a second car for our 2 man business.

    I had had my '05 Sonata almost two years last February (totally trouble free) when we bought an '07 Sonata SE (mid level trim).

    The price was $16,651; $18,189 OTD incl 6% tax, dealer fees, registration, etc. That's a far cry from $25K.

    (MSRP was $22,080)
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  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I partially agree with you. One could say the old Pinto was a safe bet, in fact, when it's not your money anyone can say anything. It keeps getting said Honda/Toyota isn't the only safe bet. I agree with that in general. In particular for me though, I would get a Honda.
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  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    There isn't a car company on the face of the planet that hasn't bombed in some aspect or another.

    In my opinion, Honda has the best overall customer service (and cars) in this segment, although Toyotas' is pretty good. People who sing Hondas' praises have a reason to do so.

    I've owned lots of honda stuff including a generator, lawnmower, 2 accords (one of which rolled over into a ditch and still ran another 30k miles until I sold it) and all have been quite good from a reliability standpoint. Until a few years ago, I was very committed to Honda and their products.

    But I came to want/need a vehicle that had better cargo carrying characteristics and Honda only had the CRV and some hard to find Accord Wagons that cost more than I thought they should. I never liked tall cars because I felt handling was compromised too much so the CRV was out. A friend had a Subaru that had been reliable and other people I knew had good luck with them so I gave it a shot and it worked out pretty well. Then a couple years ago, I wanted something that still had good hauling capabilities but was a bit more fun to drive and got the Mazda6. After a couple years of ownership, I have no complaints about reliability (which is what I expected from the research I did in Consumer Reports and JDpowers) while I still enjoy driving it. To me, it's a great combination of comfort, performance, good aesthetics/ergonomics, and utility (because a hatchback can carry many large loads that a sedan could not handle).

    Bottom line, I think most of the cars in this segment will be very reliable... so while I used to sing the praises of Honda exclusively, I've come to understand that the midsize sedan segment has many good quality cars to choose from.
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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    That Kia ad always makes me chuckle, especially at the end with the "Flashdance"-style bucket of water. I think the ad is meant to be tongue-in-cheek--kind of like the current Toyotathon ads in which we see folks pushing perfectly good cars and SUVs off parking garages, or shoving boulders onto their cars, so they have an excuse to buy a Toyota. I like the Kia ad better because it's so campy, but both ads make me smile a little, which I see as a good thing. :)
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  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    '07 Sonata SE (mid level trim).

    The price was $16,651; $18,189 OTD incl 6% tax, dealer fees, registration, etc. That's a far cry from $25K.

    Well, the Sonata SE is a far cry from an Accord EX V6, IMO. The important thing is to get your money's worth, whatever the amount may be.
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  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116

    Someone interested in a BMW or Mercedes is more likely to come from a Honda then a domestic car. Don't you hate it when common sense gets in the way of your conclusions? I'm a former Honda driver that drives an Audi.

    Thats very interesting. A sample size of 1 is always very valid to me. Do you have any links to data that suggests this is actually a trend? I find it interesting that someone would go from a vehicle with a very high rating for reliability and durability like a Honda to one that lacks that record, like a VAG product.

    I think the point wasn't so much that someone went from vehicle X to a BMW or Audi, just that certain car buyers evaluate their needs against all available cars on the market at the time they are planning a purchase.
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  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    That wasn't the point of his post and I didn't suggest any trends.
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  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Kia commercial...makes me to remember to not buy their product.

    I would not let a commercial influence me that much one way or another. I did not trade in my Mazda when I saw their dumb commecial with people in a circle singing "zoom, zoom, zoom" and I did not go out and by a VW when I saw and enjoyed their new Jetta commercials a few years ago, the "it's time to pimp zee auto" ones :D ..
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  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    What happened to the Ford Fusion reviews to the right side of the page? The Fusion entry has disappeared. How come?
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  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    I would not let a commercial influence me that much one way or another

    I wouldn't let it stop me if I was really interested in buying one. I see a lot of ads that are "so dumb they're cute" and like a lot of them, but this one just got to me. My wife feels the same way. I used to participate in sample groups once in awhile so I can't believe that they ran this ad by a sample group and people actually thought it was good. I can appreciate campy as much as the next person but this one was just obnoxious. To me there is a difference between tongue-in-cheek and stupid.
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  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    A friend had a Subaru that had been reliable and other people I knew had good luck with them so I gave it a shot and it worked out pretty well. Then a couple years ago, I wanted something that still had good hauling capabilities but was a bit more fun to drive and got the Mazda6.

    I agree Honda isn't the only choice, but if I were to get a midsize sedan it would be an Accord. I nearly bought the EX a few years ago. But then I drove the Forester XT. Much roomier than a Mazda 6. Sunroof is great and the turbo makes it a blast to drive. Full time AWD doesn't hurt either.
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  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Actually, it seems to be missing from all the places where it should be like the other Ford Fusion discussions (at least the ones I spot checked). I reported it.

    Thanks for letting us know!
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  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You should see it now. :)
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  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    You should see it now.

    I do. Thanks for your assistance.
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  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    Hey, why isn't the 08 Sebring listed to the right with the others? Is it not considered a midsize sedan? Fix this please.
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  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    I agree Honda isn't the only choice, but if I were to get a midsize sedan it would be an Accord. I nearly bought the EX a few years ago. But then I drove the Forester XT. Much roomier than a Mazda 6. Sunroof is great and the turbo makes it a blast to drive. Full time AWD doesn't hurt either.

    Yup, I almost got the Legacy GT wagon at the time... if it weren't for the huge price premium (about 5 k more than the Mazda6) and the seats that weren't comfortable for me, I would have been very happy to own one. Extremely fun to drive (though a bit soft - nothing a couple suspension bits couldn't fix) with excellent grip in the NW's wet weather due to AWD. And of course the crash ratings of the Legacy are excellent too.

    I find it odd that with the increased desire for more fuel efficient vehicles that more cars in this category aren't offering more body styles that offer greater cargo carrying capability. Some wagons and, to a lesser degree, hatchbacks offer utility similar to a smaller SUV/ crossover w/ out the weight/gas mileage and handling penalty. If consumers want a vehicle that has more flexibility in hauling things, they will have a hard time finding many choices in this segment anymore. But in the end, fortunately the Legacy/ Outback and the Mazda6 are good choices for those who want family friendly comfort and utility.
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  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Only 9 competitors may be shown on a page, I believe. There are more sedans on topic here than actually fit on the side.
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  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    autoblog - cr rates altima best midsize
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  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    Only 9 competitors may be shown on a page, I believe.

    So, what determines the 9 that get displayed - whoever sent Edmunds the most money that month?
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  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Used to it was whoever created the discussion in the first place.

    That was the case when I created the Midsize Pickup Comparo discussion.

    Why the obvious chip on your shoulder?
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  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    Why the obvious chip on your shoulder?

    The new Sebring seems to get no respect.
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  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Feel free to talk about the Sebring here, or any midsize sedan that is or is not listed in the categories.

    The manufacturers of the cars that are displayed within the nine vehicle limit send us the same amount of money as your annual membership fee, so you can see that you have the same weight with us that they do - actually you have a lot more, because you are here talking to us and they are not! :-D

    FWIW, there a large number of vehicles in this segment that "get no respect" - all we have to do is get a conversation going about any or all of them if anyone is interested. Give it a try!
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  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Pat,I think that right now it's just that the Malibu is the "car de jour" that is all.I would love to see more discussion about my car too,but maybe there is nothing more to say,
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