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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • It was a tongue and cheek suggestion but many people don't share your opinion as getting a new vehicle is a very personal choice for many people. It certainly isn't a last reason for many of us.

    That might be true but if you are looking to differentiate yourself with a vehicle in this segment, eh good luck.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    Though I would personally prefer the Accord or the Aura, the Aura would definitely be less common than the Accord and Malibu.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    If you want something really rare in this class, try the Galant. ;)
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    If you want something really rare in this class, try the Galant.

    The Fusions/Milans are great cars but aren't exactly setting any sales records (but probably more than the Galants).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Oh yes, the Fulan sells in much bigger numbers than the Galant. I see tons of Fusions out there, not very many Milans, hardly any Galants. So I guess if someone likes the Fulan and wants something that is not as commonplace, the Milan would be the choice. I like the Milan's styling better than the Fusion's, and the Milan has ABS and power driver's seat standard--or did Fusion add standard ABS for '08?

    Probably the mid-sizer that was the most rare of all in the U.S. was the Verona, but Suzuki has dropped that model. RIP.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    --or did Fusion add standard ABS for '08?

    Yup, if I remember what I read correctly, the 2008 Fusions now come with ABS.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    What kind of things are you looking for in your new car? Is back seat space important? Are 0-60 times important, or do you want something soft and comfy? Do you have kids, pets? Would extra hauling capacity be helpful? And do you have to deal with nasty weather regularly? What did you not like about the Fusion (not to talk you out of it, but just to see what issues you're thinking about)?

    If you lean toward the sportier end, the Aura, Legacy and Mazda6 might be worth considering. And if you're still in the market mid-08, the next generation Mazda6 may be available in the US (this new model is already getting great reviews in Europe where it is now available for purchase, but there may be changes to the US version... should know more within a month or two when US specs are released).

    I looked at the Malibu this weekend and was pretty impressed. The interior looked very nice and I thought the interior materials were very good. The sliding part of the center console was a bit sticky and there were some sharp points at the bottom part of the gear shift, but overall, the fit and finish was good. Nice use of soft touch plastic up on the dash (almost rubberized) and the feel of the buttons was good. Back seat comfort was good also with lots of legroom. I wanted to take one for a drive, but they were a bit busy and didn't want to waste the salespeople's time. Still not too fond of the grill, but it's not terribly annoying to me either. Regardless, it's good to see another quality competitor in this segment.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    What ever you do, stay away from those crummy Mazda 6 vehicles. The Accord is a much superior vehicle. :shades:
  • carzzzcarzzz Posts: 282
    I think safety is very important especially the side impact. 2008 Honda Accord receives only 3 stars on rear seat side impact from NHTSA, despite it is the best pick from IIHS. Honda should revise or modify the structure or air bags design.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    That is a surprising result. Looks like everything else discussed here gets 4 or 5 stars in that test. But...looking at actual test results for head injury score (which NHTSA does not consider in their ratings) changes the picture somewhat.

    Rear seat head injury criterion (and star rating):

    Accord - 451 (3 stars)
    Fusion - 471 (4 stars)
    Sonata - 472 (5 stars)
    Mazda6 - 199 (4 stars)
    Camry - 109 (5 stars)
    Aura - 495 (5 stars)
    Legacy - 473 (5 stars)
    Altima - 390 (5 stars)

    Perhaps folks with kids should take a closer look at the Camry or Mazda6, if they care about protecting them from head injury.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    The fact that the Accord got "Good" on the IIHS side impact crash test is significant. That test includes head injury in its scoring (unlike the NHTSA test) and is also a more severe test than the NHTSA side test, in that the sled on the IIHS test is designed to mimic a SUV or small pickup truck, whereas the sled on the NHTSA test mimics a mid-sized passenger car.

    In this class, the Accord,Camry, Fusion/Milan, Legacy, and Passat have received "Good" IIHS side impact scores; all received "Good" on the frontal offset crash test also. The Sonata and G6 received "Acceptable" on the IIHS side impact test ("Good" on the front). The rest have either not been tested by the IIHS for side impact, were not tested with side airbags, or have not been tested since design changes were made, so no score is available.

    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=30
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,211
    When talking about reliability, we can't just talk about the experience of one person, with one car.

    I had one of your so-called "significant problem" 03 Accords as well. I had it for 50 months and 65,000 miles and even with the extremely short warranty Honda provides, my total repair bill on that vehicle totalled to the almighty $0.00.

    you spend more then that in wasted time in one day with a domestic.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • can i get a 2.5s 4 cyl (i don't need any fancy packages) for $20k. I live in Mass.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    can i get a 2.5s 4 cyl (i don't need any fancy packages) for $20k. I live in Mass.

    Considering that I paid about $20K for a new '07 Altima 2.5S with Convenience Plus package last summer, I don't see why not.
  • shado4shado4 Posts: 287
    you spend more then that in wasted time in one day with a domestic.

    Interesting. Can you provide links to back up your assertion. Or is this just your (extremely biased) opinion?
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    You are still one lone person and even though (if I recall correctly) you have had a transmission problem and even though Honda may have eaten the bill you still had the problem. Reminds me of a co-worker who years ago had a Buick something or other that he bought new and shortly after he bought it the moter blew. Even though he was inconvenienced greatly by the loss of his car not to mention a blown motor on a new car he aways..always defended GM because they replaced it "free"... well duh! He continued to buy GM products without fail. It amazes me about brand loyalty of a company who can do no wrong no matter how much wrong they do (pick your company: Ford, GM Honda Chrysler etc.). Yeah, yeah spare me the GM verses Honda reputation debate I have heard it and that isn't the point. DISCLAIMER: If my memory did fail me and you aren't the Honda owner who despite the failed transmission still sings Honda praises...sorry, it must have been someone just like you.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Or is this just your (extremely biased) opinion?

    Bingo!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Since it appears he's claiming that someone could spend more than $0.00 in one day on a domestic car, that isn't too hard to back up. But I'm sure there's lots of examples of folks spending more than $0.00 in one day on an Accord also. So... what is the point?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    There isn't a car company on the face of the planet that hasn't bombed in some aspect or another.

    In my opinion, Honda has the best overall customer service (and cars) in this segment, although Toyotas' is pretty good. People who sing Hondas' praises have a reason to do so.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Praising Honda (or some other manufacturer) or not wasn't my point. My point was, and remains to be, there are those who continue to do so despite any and all problems that turn up with their Honda (or any other manufacturer). They seem to turn a blind eye as long as the problem is fixed free and refuse to acknowledge that a problem existed at all as long as the cost for repair didn't come out of their pocket (and maybe even if it did). A problem is a problem. I have a Honda with problems and since it is our first I am certainly not willing to sing the praises despite our problems being fixed under warranty. So, maybe all Honda owners don't sing quite so loudly but grumble in the back of the choir .
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Don't feed a troll. It won't do much good.

    What redesigned/refreshed vehicles should we expect to lay eyes on in 2008, people?

    Mazda 6, of course. What else? Any changes to the Fusion for 2008? Will the redesigned version debut this year? How about the Camry, changes there? How about our less-talked-about domestic friends, the G6, Sebring, and Avenger? Or the Legacy?

    Just looking to create some new topics to kick the year off on a good note in here.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    The new drivetrains will debut in late 08 for the Fusion and Milan (3.5L V6, new 2.5L I4, hybrid I4). Still not sure about interior or exterior updates and apparently we won't see anything at Detroit so we'll have to wait for Chicago or New York to be sure.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    " I have a Honda with problems and since it is our first I am certainly not willing to sing the praises despite our problems being fixed under warranty. So, maybe all Honda owners don't sing quite so loudly but grumble in the back of the choir ."

    I'm sorry you had problems with your Honda. Having a car company fix the problem for free as if it weren't there would be enough for me to do some singing. People don't forget, that is why Hyundai, imo, will have a tough time, and, because people don't forget Honda is the car that sells itself.
  • colloquorcolloquor Posts: 482
    And, therein lies the problem . . . Honda sells itself whether there are other valid market choices or not. Many Honda buyers turn a blind eye to any other competitor, and simply buy Honda. Historically, it's tended to be a safe bet. This was also reasonably true with Toyota, but everyone knows what's happening with some of their products now. Thus, one has to be careful basing a major purchase totally on a historical track record and perception. This mind set is exactly why so many people got burned by continuing to buy Detroit products, and were unwilling to initially give Asian products a chance a few decades ago.

    I, too, have owned Honda's in the past, and still do - an Accord. But, I took a chance on a 2006 Hyundai for my wife, and haven't regretted it in a minute. For the past 25 months, it's been more glitch-free and reliable than any new car I've ever purchased. It had absolutely no issues at delivery, and still doesn't. My past two Civics and the current Accord don't share the same track record however.

    Hyundai may have a tough time changing peoples minds, I agree. But, if they produce well-built, trouble-free reliable cars regardless of their price point, perceptions will eventually change.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Don't forget the 2009 Sonata, due in 1H08 with major changes including a new interior, exterior tweaks, more powerful engines, tweaked suspension etc.

    The Sebring, Avenger, and Camry are too new for any major changes.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Not sure anyone else noticed, but there's another comparo of the 2008 Accord and Malibu and 2007 Camry posted on edmunds.com's home page. It's a companion piece to the comparo done by six people selected from the general public. This time it was Edmunds' real editors doing the comparing. The results are in the next paragraph, so stop now if you don't want to know yet.

    Accord LX-P was first, then the Malibu 2LT, and in last place the Camry LE. So the order was the same as the public's comparo, in which the Accord edged the Malibu and the Camry brought up the rear. This comparo was like the one Edmunds did a couple of years ago, in that it was based on "how much car can we get for a certain price point", in this case $23k. Except they did something rather odd, I think. In almost every comparo I've seen, the winner of the previous comparo gets a chance to take on the newcomers. But not this time. In Edmunds' last comparo like this, they pitted the Accord and Camry I4s against a Sonata GLS V6, and the Sonata won--and as the editors noted, it wasn't close. Wouldn't it have been interesting to see how either the Sonata SE V6 (MSRP just under the $23k limit) or maybe the Sonata Limited I4, loaded up with everything except a moonroof (MSRP just over the $23k limit) would have fared against the new Accord and Malibu, and the Camry? I think that would have been a fairer way to approach the comparo. Given that the base Sonata V6 beat the Accord and Camry (albeit previous-gen models) last time, I think the better-equipped Sonata SE V6, and maybe the loaded Limited I4, would have had a great chance in this field of sparsely-equipped I4 competitors. But now we'll never know, will we? :(

    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=124091/pageNumber=1
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    But now we'll never know, will we?

    It would seem that Edmunds, and maybe others, have decided the top three mid-size sedans are the Accord, Malibu and Camry, in that order. Even so, that doesn't made me like our Ford Fusion any less. It is a great car with a host of nice features.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    It would seem that Edmunds, and maybe others, have decided the top three mid-size sedans are the Accord, Malibu and Camry, in that order.

    I think it's more a matter of comparing the newly redesigned models against the best sellers. We all know pretty much all their is to know about the Fusion. When a new redesigned Fusion comes out I'm sure their will be plenty of comparisons done with it included.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    When a new redesigned Fusion comes out I'm sure their will be plenty of comparisons done with it included.

    Good point. The 2009 Fusion will no doubt be improved over the 2006-08 models. For one thing it will have the 3.5-liter V6 instead of the 3.0 Duratec, which is a relatively "old" engine as such things go. A new I4 is on tap, too.

    What really surprises me is that the Fusion/Milan/MKZ trio hasn't sold very well in the grand scheme of things.
  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    Even so, that doesn't made me like our Ford Fusion any less. It is a great car with a host of nice features.

    Same with my Sebring. In 07 they completely redesigned the Sebring but it still gets little respect. I've had mine a little over 3 months and I love it more each day. Great car with a load of features. When people see it and I tell them it's a Sebring they are surprised. Current owners give it high marks on the Edmunds reviews.

    I guess it'll take time to get over the rental car stigma.
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