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Just like to point out that the Hyundai warranty only applies to original owners and the Nissan 10yr/100k warranty only applies to the repair/replacement of the CVT, not the powertrain and doesn't apply at all to vehicles that don't have the CVT.
I do believe that the 10yr/120K only applies to CVT tranny's from Nissan. IIRC, Nissan had numerous problems with early CVT transmissions as well as some current complaints
The GM warranty is important as it allows you to get used cars at rock-bottom prices while still retaining enough warranty to likely last the remaining two years.
Hyundai in their fine print states that the original warranty drops to HALF for any owner other than the initial one. Oops. Since most used 3 year old cars have 30-40K on them, that warranty drops to at best 2/20K. Mileage is hugely important.
But to get back to the real reason...
I can go out today and find a 3 year old Pontiac Grand Prix with 60K miles on it for $8K. It still has 2/40 on it. Just right for the normal driver. And in the end, it really is about price. You get a car with maybe $1K a year depreciation until it hits 3K or so, where it remains pretty stable for a decade depending upon condition. And if there are any issues in those two years, it still has the warranty on the drivetrain.
In life you really need to put emotion aside and be pragmatic with every dime that you earn. Those who are wealthy end up being so because they don't spend more than what they make. Plus they properly invest - take the payment difference and invest it someplace safe like silver or gold or real estate. It's certainly better than throwing away money to get that new car smell and ego boost.
Here's a question - at what price would you buy three year old GM car? Now, if you answer "I won't, buy used or GM sucks" then please excuse yourself and move on. I'm serious here - if the price was low enough, *how* cheap would it have to be to be put on a list of used car choices? For any rational person, there is always a number in this blank.
GM gets on *my* list over and over again because it's the least expensive option for a reasonably new vehicle. It's not glamorous, I also think that they are ugly and boring, but I just don't have the money to waste in this economy. Why pay twice as much for a new Civic or Fit when I can get a larger car with more options for half the money? That $8K difference buys a lifetime of repairs and then some.(not including less tax/license/insurance/etc on the used vehicle)
EDIT:
A good example of this is the Pontiac Grand Prix GT. It might run $9K vs $8K for an example, but it gets the same MPG as a similar year Buick with the 3800 series engine in it(20/30 on the old EPA tests) - and is easy to get a combined 25-26mpg with.
260HP supercharged engine. Alloy wheels and sport suspension. Plus it still has some remaining factory warranty. Yeah, you can keep your econobox for $10K. I know which will bring a bigger grin to my face.
I just wanted to recorrect this statement since it is incorrect, but I got the letter from Nissan for my 2010 Max and it covers all vehicles equipped with CVT and it covers not only the transmission but the engine or any other powertrain component connected or directly affected by the transmission; also, I did mention in my posts that included ONLY CVT equipped vehicles and not manuals and regular automatics, mostly on old models! - that is directly from Nissan's mouth!
I don't though expect Nissan to keep this powertrain coverage forever, maybe for a few years but I suspect they will go back to their regular powertrain coverage, especially if Toyota and Honda keep their 5yr/60k miles! Right now the powertrain coverage is for CVT vehicles from 2003-2010! since almost all of their 2010 models have CVT it practically covers everything, except say like the GT-R or altima coupe manual!
I seriously doubt, but I could be wrong, that Hyundai would reduce their powertrain coverage! both them and Nissan have made great improvements in sales, market share, etc in the last 10 years and right now that is one thing that makes Hyundai stand above the rest of the mainstream competition! but you never know! I think Hyundai has had that coverage since 2003 or 2004 and it seems to be working for them, their sales numbers have gone up each year and in fact Hyundai/Kia might past Nissan in a year or two in sales in the US!
So what if the warranty is for original owners, that is the way it is with almost all auto manufactures; when you go to buy a used car off of any dealership lot, you not going to get the same warranty the original owner had anyway!
For a guy who didn't have a great experience with GM, you do a good job of defending them and knocking down their competition
But truth to be told, exterior styling isn't a huge factor for me is it's cheap, reliable, and I can get the tires to chirp with the traction control still on. That's the thing about a car like the GTO or a Mustang(V8) or other cars like it. It's not the best looking or best interior, but it is a fantastic car to actually drive. It makes you forget the reasons you hate it every time you hit a turn or an onramp.
Note - my favorite though is still the previous generation CTS - fantastic car that is an absolute demon with manual. Automatic is fine. Manual transforms it from a mild-mannered nobody into an almost feral creature. The CTS-V of course is the rampaging demon of the family... but it's just overkill for daily driving.
Excuse me. I'm moving on.
Actually all new vehicle warranties except Hyundai and Nissan have fully transferrable warranties. It's only the extended ones that are limited for obvious reasons.
I stopped getting extended warranties long ago! I got tired of paying their ridiculous prices just so that when I got done with factory warranty and was in the extended when something went wrong or broke, I got the old "oh, this isn't covered under the extended warranty, that isn't covered because of wear and tear, etc etc". its all a scam to get more money out of you!
I've heard that the extended warranty is sometimes helpful on some of the German luxury cars because of their stereotypical electronics problems after only being a couple years old, who knows!
Well, I've only bought a used car once so I've never had to deal with transferable warranties, but regardless, it still doesn't negate the fact that when buying a new car, Hyundai is giving you best powertrain warranty of the rest of the mainstream competition; when you start talking used cars and transferable warranties then that a different matter!
Just as a side note, I know it sounds like I am a Hyundai supporter and while the Genesis and 11 Sonata have peaked my interest I do not have or ever have had a Hyundai yet, but they are getting good to the point that I'm going to have to give them serious consideration in the future!
Please go to the Nissan website and click on owners, warranty and then download the 2010 warranty. On the first page you will find:
2010
WARRANTY INFORMATION BOOKLET
NOTICE:
The coverage period of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty
applicable to your Nissan vehicle equipped with Continuously
Variable Transmission is extended to 10 years/120,000 miles,
whichever comes first, for transmission repairs, replacement
and related towing only. The warranty, including all terms,
limitations and conditions, otherwise remains unchanged.
WBI/09-031
Now if I read this correctly it is saying that the 10/120 applies to the CVT only as it says it covers "transmission repairs, replacement and related towing only". It even says towing is for just problems related to the transmission. Everything else remain unchanged from the regular warranty. Now maybe you have a letter that says differently, I don't know but the above was directly copied from the Nissan website. If they have changed it via letters to all Nissan owners than I stand corrected.
So what if the warranty is for original owners, that is the way it is with almost all auto manufactures;
No that is not true at all. To my knowledge every manufacturer that offers a 3 or 4 year b to b warranty fully covers the second buyer until that original warranty expires either through time/mileage. Also, to my knowledge, does the powertrain warranties. If you know of one that doesn't, please enlighten.
Also, please show where I have knocked down GMs competition other than explain, factually, their warranties.:confuse: Also, maybe you could point us to the ad or commercial where GM stated only that their powertrain warranty is for 100k miles and makes no mention of the 5 yrs. I can't seem to find it. :confuse:
As I said before, I'm not fond of GM products right now but I like to deal with facts, not hyperbole.
I'm not dealing with hyperbole so lets not start the name calling!
If you want the proof, go check the Murano, Altima, and Maxima CVT forums on edmunds and you'll see that Nissan has re-imbursed most drivers for not only the CVT, but for engine replacements and other powertrain equipment that was damaged from the CVT!
I even asked my local Nissan dealer when I was in for my first complement oil change about this specific question and they told me Nissan is covering the CVT and powertrain!
You better stop believing everything you read on the internet and go by the word of mouth of people who actually have Nissan's, or better yet, the ones with 1st Gen CVTs who have had to have their transmission and engines replaced at 80k miles! Just because the website doesn't say it does not mean it isn't covered; my letter, the dealerships, and the people who ARE going through the problems are stating otherwise!
and when I tried to explain that currently Hyundai and Nissan, competitors of GM, have better powertrain warranties then GM, you start quivering with tiny semantics like, oh buts that not for transferable warranties, or that is only for CVT, the latter of which is not even true! why don't you go read the stories about the people who had 10-12k repair bills for trans and engine and had it all paid for by Nissan! the problem, is how late Nissan waited to enact the extended powertrain coverage and thus some people before the enactment are having troubles!
And I just checked, your acting like I misspoke about the Hyundai warranty and I didn't say anything wrong! I said Hyundai has the best powertrain warranty in the business and even if it isn't transferable the 2nd owner still has a 5yr/60k mile warranty which the other competition offers as their ORIGINAL warranty so Hyundai still has the best warranty!
You are getting way too excited just because somebody is asking you to prove something. I said if you have a letter that states different than the warranty on Nissan's website than I stand corrected. I have always believed everything a car dealer has told me too.
And I'm still waiting for answers to my other question which you choose to avoid.
You know the easiest way to end these little spats on the forums is either to just not reply or admit you're wrong or misinformed. I've admitted I was mitstaken or wrong several times and it doesn't hurt a bit. That way everyone can go back to discussing midsize cars and not bashing any particular brand.
The Sonata was without doubt the coolest and most interesting of the group. Very striking appearance, terrific high tech interior, good handling, quiet ride. But I found the driver's seat to be too contoured since I have bad hips and need a flat seat.
The Camry was very good. Quiet, refined, comfortable, good ride. Very comfortable driver's seat with excellent power adjustments. Not as responsive as the Sonata and a boring interior but a good car all around. But is the acceleration problem really fixed?
The Accord had a very classy interior, good ride, quiet, good handling. Very comfortable driver's seat. But I didn't care for its exterior styling. Also the Accord didn't have an outside temperature reading in the LX-P model I was looking at - to get it you need to order the EX version with leather seats. That seemed rather cheap of Honda.
The Altima was good all around. Nice exterior styling, responsive handling, quiet ride, good power. Plain but neat interior with some high tech controls. Comfortable seat. The keyless startup was very cool, as was its continuously variable transmission. I had a few issues with it. For one, the car seemed smaller than the others on the inside. Another is that it didn't come with daytime running lights. Also the power driver's seat option was rather expensive.
So all have their strengths and weaknesses - none really stand out as great or terrible.
I may test drive some of them again and/or try out the Fusion and Malibu.
Decisions, decisions.
The problem is, I didn't say anything wrong! Trust me, I enjoy posting on these forums and I have myself, as you have said, misspoken or said something wrong and have corrected myself! The problem is, people want to quiver over semantics or the fine print; I've got better things to do with my time then make sure I speak so specifically and as if I'm presenting a oral thesis so not to offend or forget to add something
people need to read a little bit more closely to what people say before trying to debunk it!
and I'm not trying to pick on you, because we have agreed on most things in the past, but I learned a long time ago, not to take everything on the manufacturer's website for granted because when I've gone into the dealership or contacted corporate or talk with other owners of the vehicles I find out something else! I too thought that the original extended powertrain coverage was just for the CVT until I got my letter in the mail and spoke with my local dealership and the final tip on the hat was reading what 1st Gen Murano and 6th Gen Maxima owners were getting reimbursed for by Nissan here on edmunds!
can't we all just get along :confuse: peace out :shades:
Thats one of the things that has driven me crazy about Honda, I think they have the best interior quality of the group and the body styles I could live with but the damn seats just bother my sensitive back so much that it prevents me from ever getting one
I
I'm not surprise these 1st Gen CVTs are having problems, because like anything knew with companies, this was Nissan's first real attempt at bringing CVTs into their company and I wasn't surprised their was problems, just like you don't want to buy the first model year of a new car because thats the year they get all kinks out
was dying for one :P
so far, the 2nd Gen CVT, which they started introducting in 2007, seems to be holding up much much better and improved over the 1st Gen tremendously; you would not believe the mpg I'm getting out of my almost 300hp Maxima because of it
anyway, back to the mid-size comparisons!!!!
The seats are firm. I thought they were pretty comfortable but I can understand that those with back issues might find them too firm.
My wife really likes the Accord but I don't care for the styling at all. Since I'll be doing 98% of the driving (she has her own Honda Civic) I'll have to make the final decision.
I think at the end of the day I may end up with the Camry. For me, it has the most comfortable seats and no real negatives (other than the acceleration issue, which may or may not be an actual defect and may or may not have been corrected by Toyota with its accelerator pedal fix).
I personally have had good luck with Toyota and Nissan seats on my back in regards to comfort yet you'll read from other people they are not good on their backs!
so the bottom line is, you have to go and sit in the car yourself and see how the seats are on your back!
If its not urgent, you may want to wait a month and see if any good incentives come out. Meanwhile, try a Fusion. They are a decent car that usually goes out the door cheaper than a Camry. We are happy with our Camry.
ROFL! I'll compare a 2007 Sonata to a 2007 GM mid-sized ANYTHING, any day, re build quality and features. Take a 2007 Malibu for example. Except for OnStar, what does it have over the Sonata? And the quality of that 2007 Malibu was laughable compared to the Sonata. Grand Am, not much better. Only the Aura was somewhat comparable, but back in 2007 I think you had to pay extra for features on it like ESC and satellite radio. If you want to compare the Buicks to the Azera, we can do that too.
GTO? Uh, no thanks. My DW can't keep our 162 hp four-banger under the speed limit, and behind her is my 14-year old daughter. Besides, I am not a big fan of big-engined cars in these times.
Especially true given the expected rise in gas prices soon...
Gas going up again!
Time to correct some recent misstatements about the Hyundai warranty. First, it is not true that the "original warranty drops to HALF" for 2nd and subsequent owners. The fact is, there are two warranties, just like on most cars: there's a bumper-to-bumper warranty and a powertrain warranty. The 5-year, 60k mile bumper-to-bumper warranty is fully transferable. (And BTW, is one of the longest bumper-to-bumper warranties in the industry, two years longer than most other automakers offer on mainstream brands.) Someone else stated, incorrectly, that "the Hyundai warranty is not transferable." That is misleading. The bumper-to-bumper warranty is fully transferable.
Then there is the 10-year, 100k mile powertrain warranty, which provides an additional five years and 40k miles of powertrain warranty to the original owner. Do the math, and notice that 1/2 of 100k is 50k, not 60k. So it is not true that Hyundai "cuts its warranty in half" for 2nd and subsequent owners. It is simply that the powertrain warranty doesn't transfer, unless the warranty is extended for an additional fee. Then it is transferable.
So if one buys a 3-year old Hyundai with fewer than 60k miles, there's still a couple of years of bumper-to-bumper warranty left. On most any other car, only some powertrain warranty will be left.
As to the question re at what price I would buy a 3 year old GM car, I'd say for around $5000 I'd consider a Grand Am or Aura, if it were in excellent condition with low miles. For $3000, I'd even look at a Cobalt--for that kind of money, I could live with the uncomfortable driver's seat, cramped rear seat, and el cheapo interior bits.
Yes, for a transfer fee you can transfer your contract to another person (private party) to give them added confidence. Coverage is transferable from private party to private party, through the life of the contract. The fee varies by state.
***
So the drivetrain drops to half and the other part requires a fee. The bumper to bumper part isn't really a factor on a used car as much as the major engine and transmission components, and GM wins. As much as you love Huyndai, 5/100K beats 5/50K.(drivetrain is always separate compared to body and interior and similar repairs). It's not the small switches and trim pieces that worry me. It's the transmission on a used vehicle taking a dump on me and leaving me with a $3000 repair bill.
But as for what GM car to get, it's pointless to try to compare GM's small cars with the competition as they are really not well made. It's their main line vehicles that are worth considering. A good example is, well, take any make out there. There's just no way that a Focus is built as well as a Taurus. It's just not. One has far more features, heavier suspension, better brakes - there's literally $5K more in raw materials in it versus the entry-level model. The smart person, then, buys a used premium vehicle for the price of the entry level econobox. Most of them handle better, last longer, and get better MPG and safety ratings as well.
Or compare a Civic. It's just *not* an Accord. The Civic is a small budget car that is meant to be exactly that. I actually laughed at the other person's comparing a used Sonata(the original person's goal was to buy a USED car for $10K, remember) to a Malibu.
Note - I've driven both the last generation Sonata and the Malibu since the local Chevrolet dealer also sells Hyundai. No contest on bumpy roads, turns, or acceleration. Now, the new one might be better, but it's $20,000. Way out of the $10-12K used range. It might be a great choice in 4-5 years when the price drops, but not until then.
NHTSA Crash Test Driver 5 stars
NHTSA Crash Test Passenger 5 stars
NHTSA Crash Test Side Front 5 stars
NHTSA Crash Test Side Rear 5 stars
NHTSA Rollover 4 stars
IIHS Offset Not tested
Owner reports are very good, the manual shifter and clutch work smoothly, one owner also owns a Audi A3 and his new Kizashi's clutch works better than his Audi A3's does, etc.
Somebody else states the car seems cut out of a solid block, meaning no rattles or buzzes. And it's fairly quiet on the expressway. It's sport-tuned, like my Lancer GTS is, but that's what I want. The Lancer GTS est.mpg for my CVT model is 22 city, and 29 highway, it's a compact sedan. The Kizashi sedan is a midsize, albeit somewhat a smallish midsizer, and it's est. mpg ratings are 22 city and 30 highway. It has a 2.4L inline 4 cyl. producing 185 horses and 170 ft.lb's. The numbers for my Lancer GTS are 2.0L inline 4 cyl. producing 152 horses and 146 ft. lbs.
The GTS Kizashi is outfitted so closely to my Lancer GTS it's almost funny. Foglights, sunroof, Rockford Fosgate stereo(the Kizashi's is "only" 425 watts, the Lancer GTS' is 650 watts), leather-wrapped steering wheel and leather-wrapped gearshift knob.
One notable difference that I think is driving me towards an eventual partnership with a Platinum Metallic Silver Suzuki Kizashi GTS is the 6-speed transmission. I think I miss rowing through the gears more than I know.
And here in the SE Arizona hicksticks there is no stop and go traffic that so many people complain about manual tranny shifting with. Wide, open hot and sunny and dusty places that are really quite manual transmission inviting.
Both cars have 18" alloys, too. I'll have ta compare the height and length of both cars and other particulars. Other than not needing a new car by any stretch of anybody's imagination I haven't found anything at-tall about the 2010 Suzuki Kizashi that I don't like.
Oh, the Warranty. Suzuki offers a pretty solid 7 year and 100,000 mile limited powertrain Warranty. Nothing scares me right off the block about the Suzuki Motor Company Warranty.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Since you insist on stating, inaccurately, that Hyundai's warranty is "cut in half" for 2nd and subsequent owners, then I'll just mention that, by your reckoning, GM's warranty has been cut in half for the FIRST owner, compared to Hyundai's warranty. :shades:
Since I don't put any more than 10k miles a year on any of my cars, 5/100k does me no good. But 10/100k does, as does a 5-year, 60k bumper-to-bumper warranty. Which GM also offers... in your dreams.
I actually started out driving all lower-end cars, but went back and drove the higher-end Accord later after I discovered I could afford the upgrade from the EX. I could have driven a higher-end Altima, but I can't imagine it would drive differently (I never considered any V-6 models). I actually went back and drove the Altima a second time, just to be sure. While I was there I sat in an SL, but I still think the Accord's interior is nicer. Others may disagree.
You're right the Altima 2.5 S would be a much better deal than the EX-L. However, if I optioned the Altima so that it had all the EX-L features it would have been pretty close. In the end, I just found the Accord seats more comfortable, so I didn't bother to get a quote on the Altima.
I have driven a Camry Hybrid on several occasions so I already knew what the more upscale Toyota interior is like.
The Legacy I drove was not the high-end model. It had cloth seats, manual HVAC, etc. (I might have mis-named the trim level in my previous post, but I think "Limited" is their high-end and "Premium" is in the middle).
I thought about the Mazda, but I don't really like the way it looks. If I hadn't been drawn to the Honda I would have kept driving other cars The Mazda6 would have been next on the list.
As for the Hyundai, I guess I don't really have an answer for why I didn't drive one. It's difficult for me not to keep thinking of how Hyundai was 10 years ago. I know that's not fair--the Sonata came in second in a 10-car MotorTrend comparison a couple of years ago (beating out everything but the Passat), but it just didn't seem appealing. My wife likes the Sonata, so that might be her next car.
These things are all so subjective. It might not have been the most thorough search; just my 2 cents on the subject.
My recommendation would still be the same. Get a used low mileage IS300. It's probably the best deal out there if you can't stand domestic vehicles.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=275584777
This is a typical private party example. Test drive one at your peril, because your wife won't want any of the economy cars that you've been trying afterwards. :P
The IS300 was Toyota's best attempt at a proper "European" sport sedan to date. But it also was reliable and inexpensive to fix, since many of the parts were shared with other models. My Toyota truck has almost 400K on it, so 60K on a Toyota from before these current problems started is not even a blip on my radar. Nor should it be for any potential buyer. Plus it looks decent enough and has more space inside than a C class or 3 Series of the same year.
The replacement IS250/IS350 somehow both miss this sweet spot between weight, price, and performance. The IS350 is a bit overkill and too pricey and the IS250 is um - you might as well get an Accord V6.
Since my priority is sporty/aggressive exterior body style coupled with a comfortable ride/good handling balance, if I was buying tomorrow I would purchase in this order:
1) 2010 Altima (best ride/handling balance)
2) 2010 Fusion (best ride/handling balance)
3) 2010 Legacy (ride not as comfortable as ones above it, but better handling)
4) 2010 Mazda-6 (ride not as comfortable as ones above it, but better handling)
5) 2011 Sonata
6) 2010 Passat
7) 2011 Camry
8) 2010 Accord
9) 2010 Malibu
the only one of these vehicles I haven't test driven is the new Sonata, while all the rest I have so its hard to place the Sonata since I haven't test driven it myself and so I am only going by what reviews thus far have said about it, but once I test drive it that might change and move further up in my list!
I have a 2011 Sonata SE and it handles very well for a sedan in this segment. I have driven a Fusion, Malibu, and Accord and would say it is superior to all in terms of handling with the closest being the Fusion of course. As far as power from the 4 cylinder, there is no comparison!!! Check out this video I posted today, 0-60 in 7.2 seconds in my Sonata SE. Better looking, faster, better handling, and more standard features than anything else on this list. Go test drive one and see how you think it compares to Altima/Fusion/Mazda6. The turbo is going to be as quick or quicker than the V6's in the other models, I can't wait to give it a spin when it comes out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR9C0RXF9dY
No, it's a really smart bet. You'd wind up with a car that's vastly more entertaining than a Yaris & with little risk. Unless the car was abused, you're easily 75K miles away from any costly repairs.
My only gripe about this particular IS300 is that it's an automatic. As much as I like Plekto's thinking, I'd hold out for a stick, although I know that it's easier to find an honest lawyer than a clean IS300 with 3 pedals. But I'm a traditionalist - a sports sedan with an automatic just ain't that sporty.
With manual, it's a done deal. Toyota transmissions are almost literally bulletproof. My last Toyota transmission lasted 342,000 miles before it had to be replaced.(numerous clutches - this was actual gears gone bad) The replacement was a whopping $1100 for the part, brand new. The clutch, a heavy duty racing one, no less, was another $250 for the parts(including the small bits and clutch fork and so on).
I abuse it(and I mean seriously beat it up like most sane people don't) every day in L.A. traffic and I figure it's half gone at two years of driving like this. I'll get 50-60K total out of it at this rate and the replacement will be a whopping $500 installed. As a side note, a stock OEM clutch would have lasted maybe a year - *always* get the heavy duty clutch if you have to replace one.
The old 4Runner? Yeah it's not going anywhere. Perfect second vehicle, even at nearly 25 years old and 400K miles. All of that Los Angeles commuting. I have tons of faith in Toyota. The vehicles 100% made in Japan STILL are bulletproof, btw. They're apparently only cutting corners overseas and not in Japan.
Gee, I wonder why? It's not so much people hate to talk about manuals or think they're bad, it's just that the discussion doesn't apply to about 95% of the people and the discussion usually comes across as kind of pompous. It seems that most people that get into a discussion about manuals have an attitude that insinuates the following:
1. You're really not an enthusiast or a good driver if you don't drive a manual.
2. Manuals are so much better for gas mileage.
3. Manuals are so much cheaper to maintain.
4. Car manufacturers are stupid because they don't offer manuals in every single interation of their lines.
If all I had to do was drive around in the countryside on curvy roads and with all the time in the world I would still be driving a manual like I did for years. But I don't.
Really, there is nothing at all wrong with manuals or the people that drive them. They probably are a little cheaper to buy and maintain than autos. It's just tiring to hear they are the best thing slnce sliced bread and that it's stupid to drive anything else. That's why people start the diatribe. It's kind of like, it's now what one says but how they say it kind of thing. I'm not saying you personally have across this way but a lot of posters have in the past and that is why a lot of people on here get a little tired of it.
Worse than the MT snobs are the V6 fans who don't understand why anyone would consider a 4 cylinder.
I couldn't care less if anyone wants to drive an automatic. I just wish more people would drive manuals in the midsize market so that manufacturers would continue making them for those of us who prefer them.
I happen to also be a big fan of 4 cylinders. I'd be just as upset if car makers stopped making them because V6s were more popular.
I don't see how that's possible. Unless you mean you just don't like driving automatics period. There is no way it's EASIER to drive an automatic in traffic.
I love manuals but not for a daily driver.
The last traffic jam I was in I think I shifted 4 or 5 times. Los Angeles traffic, no less. It's a different technique and honestly I find having to hover over the brake to keep it from creeping forward more annoying than driving like this. Now, if you try to drive like an automatic and hover 10 ft from the guy in front's bumper at all times, your leg WILL wear out. But that's nobody's fault but your own.
But it's in any case very minor compared to the numerous advantages of a manual(as well as the fun factor). The favorite of course in a traffic jam is that it's in 2nd gear halfway wound up most of the time, so I just hit the throttle hard and launch into a gap. Often far quicker than anyone else around me.
I do this all the time with a 4200lb truck with a whopping 125HP engine. I can get into a gap as quick as a new Camry because there's no lag time at all and I'm already in the right gear.
That's because they don't have cramps in either leg. Why would they complain? Why would you chide them in the first place unless one, you thought they were lying or two, you were being a snob?
And here it starts. The reason all you people don't like manuals is because you just don't know what you're doing. And you wonder why the diatribe starts.
I had nothing but sticks in the sixties, seventies and early eighties but when I was caught in a January snowstorm in Chicago traffic for 5 hours just to get home from work and my left leg was literally ready to fall off, it convinced me that until I do move to that cabin in the country and don't have to drive at rush hour.....I'll stick with an automatic. I know, I shouldn't have been stupid and live/work in Chicago and try to get home in a snowstorm. My bad, but you can try all the lugging tricks in the book, it will not be a good experience.
If it works for you then fine - nobody is telling you not to drive a stick if you like it. So stop telling us that we don't know what we're doing if our left legs hurt.
On weekends and free time, I like that I have more interaction with the car. Its fun for me to shift and what not.
In bad weather, as a California transplant to a place where it snows, its VERY reassuring for me to have total control over the powertrain of the vehicle. I can pick a gear and it stays there. I can control how much power the wheels get. I can drive the car.