Midsize Sedans 2.0

robr2

@m6user said:
Maybe that is the way Mazda is making record profits.....not discounting as much. Probably, among other reasons I already mentioned, the 6 is not seen as much. I've seen many advertisements in the Chicago area for new Camry LEs at over $5500 off MSRP. I've seen a couple of ads for Avengers at over $6000 off. I don't see many ads at all for Mazda so either their marketing help to dealers is very small or the dealers are selling enough to make good profit without "blowing them out".

Mazda profit this past year came from the weak yen and they have stated that profits will fall as the yen gets stronger versus currencies from emerging markets.

allez

@m6user said:
Maybe that is the way Mazda is making record profits.....not discounting as much. Probably, among other reasons I already mentioned, the 6 is not seen as much. I've seen many advertisements in the Chicago area for new Camry LEs at over $5500 off MSRP. I've seen a couple of ads for Avengers at over $6000 off. I don't see many ads at all for Mazda so either their marketing help to dealers is very small or the dealers are selling enough to make good profit without "blowing them out".

Not discounting much would make more sense if you had great sales numbers, but according to the April numbers above that's not been the case; instead, they may be losing customers because of their prices.

backy

If Mazda is selling all the Mazda6's they want to sell and are making good profits on them, they have no incentive to add incentives. I figure if Mazda were not selling as many Mazda6's as they'd like, we'd see bigger incentives.

Conversely, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford, Chevy, Hyundai et. al. need to pile on incentives in order to keep sales up and keep their factories busy, and in some cases to clear out old models e.g. 2014 Sonatas.

ab348

You aren't making great profits selling 3000-4000 midsize cars a month when the competition is selling 10 times as many. Remember their N.A. management said last year they were trying to premiumize the brand by charging more than the rest to give it a more upscale image. How's that working out for ya?

m6user

How is what working out for me? I don't think you have clue how many they have to sell to make a good profit. It's all relative to the scale of the company. I never read or heard anything about Mazda wanting to go upscale to charge more. Maybe you supply some info.

ab348

@m6user said:
How is what working out for me?

That line wasn't directed at you, it was directed at Mazda.

I don't think you have clue how many they have to sell to make a good profit. It's all relative to the scale of the company. I never read or heard anything about Mazda wanting to go upscale to charge more. Maybe you supply some info.

http://www.mazda.com/about/vision/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/can-mazda-become-the-next-bmw-1.1060484

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/auto-news/mazda-carving-its-own-niche/article4604138/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/analysis-mazda-and-the-perils-of-being-premium/

The money quote from that last item: "That’s how we aim to be like a premium…Broadly speaking, it is not to rely on discounts but to have consumers appreciate the value of the product.”

[Deleted User]

.I read some of the URL's above. One of them was Mazda's goal of increasing (mid size) sales 43% by 2016.
Sales of the 6 are exactly the same now as with the last model! Mazda can't be happy about this. .

stickguy: Cool! Road trip from N J down to SC on 95? How was the drive and what car did you take?

m6user

If anyone bothered took at the link I provided it explained that Mazda has done much better in the UK, Europe and Asia then in the US. Gee, we aren't even through half of 2014 and you are already counting them out for a forecast for two years from now. Funny how nobody mentions Subaru needing more sales. Unless one really knows the balance sheet, it's really difficult to say how a company is doing by looking at one model in one country. In fact, it's kind of silly to do so. I have no vested interest in Mazda but do like the brand and what they try to do. So I like to stick up for the little guy some I guess.

stickguy

@cski said:
.I read some of the URL's above. One of them was Mazda's goal of increasing (mid size) sales 43% by 2016.
Sales of the 6 are exactly the same now as with the last model! Mazda can't be happy about this. .

stickguy: Cool! Road trip from N J down to SC on 95? How was the drive and what car did you take?

It was a big loop. Jersey (philly burbs) to Williamsburg VA (4.5 hours) and stayed there overnight. from there to Columbia SC (about 6 hours), stayed overnight. Toured in the AM, then drove to Burlington NC. only 3 hours. 2 days there, and then 7 hours back to NJ.

We took the wife's RDX. Only car I own that I am willing to take on a long road trip.

[Deleted User]

I like the RDX. For some reason C/D liked the previous Turbo model better, but it is the perfect long road trip vehicle. I bet the 3.5 is quieter and has smoother power delivery than the outgoing turbo model. The only car I have driven with Acura 3.5 is the Odyssey, but even then, I noticed how refined it sounded verses my wires Windstar.... which I guess isn't hard to do.

stickguy

I never drove the turbo, but the new one, from everything I read, is vastly more refined. also a bit quicker, and much better MPG. Only thing it really needs for long road tripping is a bigger gas tank. 16 gals is just too small.

[Deleted User]

@m6user said:
If anyone bothered took at the link I provided it explained that Mazda has done much better in the UK, Europe and Asia then in the US. Gee, we aren't even through half of 2014 and you are already counting them out for a forecast for two years from now. Funny how nobody mentions Subaru needing more sales. Unless one really knows the balance sheet, it's really difficult to say how a company is doing by looking at one model in one country. In fact, it's kind of silly to do so. I have no vested interest in Mazda but do like the brand and what they try to do. So I like to stick up for the little guy some I guess.

We don't talk about how any of the other brands are doing ink Europe. When benjaminh posts the figures we talk about it. Mazda has a #1 rated mid size offering with second to last place sales. I am a huge fan of the new Mazda, and I think they have a great three car lineup that challenges the very best the industry has to offer. That's why it is discussed. Mazda is relevant with very strong offerings

No one singles out Subaru because they have not made any effort or statements about wanting to change their position in the market, and they serve a niche customer. The car mag's don't even bother to include the Legacy in any comparo' s...it's not really relevant. I wouldn't take it personally. It's a compliment that people care about how Mazda is doing.

Stickguy: 16 gallons? That is small for your application, Mine is 18.5. Trust me, I need all of it

m6user

It just doesn't make sense to talk about a companies profit or lack of based on one little slice of the pie. I really don't care one way or the other but people making statements about overall financial status of a company without consideration of how they do in the rest of world is naive. And who made up the rule about what we talk about here? VW's sales in the US are down and only a very small portion of their overall sales and I think most people can comprehend that. I guess some people must think Mazdas are only sold in the US.

I'm nor sure but I think Mazda is a huge seller in Canada.

backy

@cski said:
The car mag's don't even bother to include the Legacy in any comparo' s...it's not really relevant.

I think that's because the current Legacy has been around for several years. I think we'll see the all-new 2015 Legacy in comparos very soon. Looks on paper to be a nice update to the current car, with some class-leading features--including the only car in this class to offer AWD standard. Notably, FE is way up... now 36 mpg EPA highway.

Should be some interesting comparos soon, with the new 200, Legacy, and Sonata and updated Camry battling the Accord, Mazda6 et. al.

http://www.subaru.com/2015-legacy.html

stickguy

this really is the sweet spot of the market now, with fantastic products. you also get lots of room and near compact FE, for barely more than compact money. I tend to like smaller cars, but if I was buying new now, would probably go midsized after all. Especially if I was looking to use it for highway trips.

ab348

@m6user said:
I'm nor sure but I think Mazda is a huge seller in Canada.

They do OK with the 3, although it is also struggling with pricing here. They cannot give the 6 away though, it is just not selling at all. The Mazda 3 is the #9-ranked selling car in Canada, although its sales are down from a year ago. The Mazda 6 is ranked an incredible #115 in sales, down 56% from a year ago. It must be a huge disappointment for them.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2014/04/canada-vehicle-sales-figures-by-model-march-2014-ytd.html

wayne21

I think that's because the current Legacy has been around for several years. I think we'll see the all-new 2015 Legacy in comparos very soon. Looks on paper to be a nice update to the current car, with some class-leading features--including the only car in this class to offer AWD standard. Notably, FE is way up... now 36 mpg EPA highway.

Should be some interesting comparos soon, with the new 200, Legacy, and Sonata and updated Camry battling the Accord, Mazda6 et. al.

We recently had an event that included a couple of new subarus on display. Although 2014, they were loaded to the max. I got in the outback and the other "sporty one" whose name I don't recall. The cars looked great! Unfortunately, on opening the doors to each of them it looked like the guys from Toyota selected the interior materials for them - cheap, hard, shiny plastic. With decent interior materials I may actually consider one, but I don't need, nor will I buy, another car with such a cheap interior. FWIW, in my opinion that is Mazda's problem with the 6 as well. The car is stunning..... until you open the door.

[Deleted User]

@ab348 said:
"They do ok with the 3, but they cannot give away the 6 here (in Canada). It is ranked an incredible #115 in sales"

OMG. Had no idea.

Wayne21: > We recently had an event that included a couple of new Subaru's on display. Although 2014, they were loaded to the max. I got in the outback and the other "sporty one" whose name I don't recall. The cars looked great! Unfortunately, on opening the doors to each of them it looked like the guys from Toyota selected the interior materials for them - cheap, hard, shiny plastic. With decent interior materials I may actually consider one, but I don't need, nor will I buy, another car with such a cheap interior. FWIW, in my opinion that is Mazda's problem with the 6 as well. The car is stunning..... until you open the door

The sporty one is the WRX

[Deleted User]

@wayne21 said:
We recently had an event that included a couple of new subarus on display. Although 2014, they were loaded to the max. I got in the outback and the other "sporty one" whose name I don't recall. The cars looked great! Unfortunately, on opening the doors to each of them it looked like the guys from Toyota selected the interior materials for them - cheap, hard, shiny plastic. With decent interior materials I may actually consider one, but I don't need, nor will I buy, another car with such a cheap interior. FWIW, in my opinion that is Mazda's problem with the 6 as well. The car is stunning..... until you open the door.

The sporty on is the WRX. It is considered a compact sedan... but still not excuse for shiny plastic in a modern car costing $30k +

wayne21

@cski said:The sporty on is the WRX. It is considered a compact sedan... but still not excuse for shiny plastic in a modern car costing $30k +>

I could not agree more! But I guess subaru is a different niche and they get away with whatever interior they want to put in a car. I don't know how Toyota gets away with it (even the nearly $40k venza is full of cheap, hard, shiny, misfitting plastic) or how/why mazda would think the mazda 6 was an "upscale" car with all the cheap, hard, shiny plastic it has. I'm sure the fanboys of those two companies will live in denial and come to their rescue stating what fine interior materials they have, but that's not reality.

suydam

Interesting that most of the reviews of the new 6 have mentioned how nice the interior is. Edmunds for example. Main criticism is the touchscreen interface.

ab348

@suydam said:
Interesting that most of the reviews of the new 6 have mentioned how nice the interior is. Edmunds for example. Main criticism is the touchscreen interface.

The reviews I have read have been decidedly mixed. While some were favorable towards the materials, others criticized them for their look (the idea that they were soft-touch but looked/felt cheap seems to be a new one) and the design for being bland. I also think that one must always temper any reviews of newly-introduced cars since auto journalists often seem to say nice things about the vehicles they get to drive on junkets to exotic locations, but later tend to be much more critical when those same vehicles are tested at their home base. One of the reasons I dropped Car & Driver years ago was precisely this effect.

mtnman1

This has probably been discussed by you guys, but I don't spend much time reading the forums anymore. Too busy anymore. I just saw the pictures of the redesign of the 2015 Sonata. Looks very sharp. Will be very interested to see it live since 2015 will be about the time I will be looking to trade my 2009 Ford Fusion SEL. That is along with the new Fusion, the Optima, Accord, Malibu, and Camry.

explorerx4

Temps are warming up and fuel mileage is on the rise, too. Not back to 28-29 mpg, yet. Mileage took a jump last May, so I'm hoping for the same this year.

stickguy

based on how many 2013 Sonatas were on the lot into 2014, and supplies of 2014s right now, there are likely to be some incredible blow-out deals this summer of the 2015 comes out on time, and looks to be a real improvement.

Same thing probably with the Camry.

ab348

Funny... many of the comments I have seen on the 2015 Sonata refer to it as a return to conformity for Hyundai and a step backwards.

stickguy

I am not that big on over-styled cars. if it looks a little more classy and traditional, while having more room and better visibility (and nicer interior) sounds like an improvement to me.

akirby

It's not the temps rising - it's the switch to summer blend gasoline.

[Deleted User]

@suydam said:
Interesting that most of the reviews of the new 6 have mentioned how nice the interior is. Edmunds for example. Main criticism is the touchscreen interface

It is a simple, functional design, much like my own. It has high quality materials, but the focus is the driving, not operating a Viper Mark 7 .

explorerx4

@akirby, Here in the NE, it's both temp and fuel blend.

[Deleted User]

Mazda 3 narrowly wins a 5 car comparo in C/D (June 14). Corolla in last place. Why am I posting this in mid-size? Because the Toyota, VW, and the Kia are all mid-size, according to the EPA.

5) Toyota Corolla S
4) Honda Civic EX-L
3) Kia Forte EX 2.4
2) VW Jetta SE 1.8T
1) Mazda 3i Touring 2.0

Funny how the Focus wasn't tested. It has to kill Toyota that despite the modern looking new Corolla (inside and out) that it still came in last. I was surprised too, TBO.

backy

Focus wasn't tested because C/D tends to take the previous winner + new/changed cars for its comparos.

Also MT did a similar comparo this month, but they invited the Focus plus 7 other cars. Apparently, Ford couldn't provide a Focus (??), and the Dart and Jetta finished so low in the comparo that MT wouldn't even waste paper on them--you have to go online to see the details on them! The five finalists were: 5) Elantra Limited, 4) Corolla LE Eco Plus, 3) Civic EX, 2) Forte EX, and 1) Mazda3i Touring. Interesting how the Jetta was 2nd in C/D's test and way way back in the pack in MT's. Otherwise the rankings were the same, for the cars both tested.

I guess the lesson here is, don't bring a mid-sized car to a compact car race!

ab348

Or don't believe what the car magazines tell you. There is clearly a bias to most of their reviews.

m6user

What bias is that?

ab348

Depends on the mag. Some like handling over all else are are utterly tolerant of excessive NVH. Some are fanboys for certain makes or haters for others. Some go for the latest and greatest every time.

backy

Isn't that the idea of a comparo? To look at the latest cars in a category and say which one is the greatest?

stickguy

C&D always skews toward handling/sporty over all else. MT, hard to know what gets them going. Both of those just came in the mail. will have to check it out. Particularly CD (a much better magazine IMO), since it includes the write up on the Jetta.

interesting enough, his final 2 choices finished 1st and 2nd. Was really hot on the 3 until the very end.

[Deleted User]

The 3 wins both comparo's! I have seen the Jetta rated all over the place. C/D rated the 2.5 SE last due to the 5 cyl, but now the 1.8T has change that, even with that same drab-gray plastic laden interior that I tire at looking at no matter how well the 'dub places. A new interior is due any day now C/D mentioned.

stickguy

a whole new jetta is due soon. expect better quality interior (materials) but no more flash or color.

stickguy

I read the jetta write-up in C&D. Reasonable summary I think. But, they love to pick on cars with "boring" style, even if it is also tasteful, classy, leads to huge interior and trunk room, and good visibility. same with the interior. not everyone wants a car that looks like it was designed in japan circa 1979. By datsun.

also, they complained about the radio. The upgrade package (that we have) would remedy that problem.

Yeah, the interior is simple, if not plain, and dark. But, good quality materials. Excellent seats. Great ergonomics. IOW, the important stuff.

plus, it really shone on the driving. not quite the athlete the Mazda is, but best ride/control, solid handling, and plenty of other positives. Also the best engine/trans combo. Huge trunk. Which are probably the attributes most important to buyers.

having recently driven it 5 hours home from NY, it is a great travel car. comfy, quiet, sneaky fast, and got 37 MPG overall. hard to argue with that.

ab348

@cski said:
The 3 wins both comparo's!

Yeah, but nobody is buying it. Seems to me that compact buyers value a smooth quiet ride over laser-sharp handling combined with a noisy, harsh ride. But not C&D.

akirby

Every review whether it's C&D or the WSJ or a personal blog is biased to some degree. It's human nature. You really just have to look at the objective comments and see what matters to you or doesn't matter to you. The rest is just entertainment.

rbirns1

Didn't Jetta used to be inexpensive? Seems like they're priced higher than Accord, Camry, Altima, and other cars that compete with Passat.

stickguy

Not really. No mire so than other compacts like the civic. Depending of course on engine. The TDI adds a chunk.

[Deleted User]

stickguy said: "also, they complained about the radio". "The upgrade package (that we have) would remedy that problem":
That radio really was awful. It was kind of weird looking, like they decided on size 20 font Arial Black, and only one line of LED's can be displayed at one time.

I know it is a good driving car, and if I was your son I would be jazzed about it too! I remember my first finance deal for my 87 Z24 very very fondly.
.
Your son did well to buy the 1.8T with the full independent suspension instead of the outgoing 5 cyl and the rear stick suspension. It is basically the same as the new Audi A3 base model. Speaking of which, I sure wouldn't mind driving the A3 Quattro with the 220 HP 2.0T!

Sandman6472

The rental version Jetta is so boring I try to avoid driving one. Have yet to get the new Mazda3 yet or even the 6 for that matter. Did drive the new Impala again yesterday and GM has hit a home run here especially with the 6 cylinder engine, really the first GM I'd consider purchasing if we needed a larger vehicle.

The Sandman

explorerx4

I took a look under a Jetta GLI, has IRS, and there is no comparison to the components on my Fusion. I'm sure it functions well enough, though.

[Deleted User]

@sandman_6472 said:
The rental version Jetta is so boring I try to avoid driving one. Have yet to get the new Mazda3 yet or even the 6 for that matter. Did drive the new Impala again yesterday and GM has hit a home run here especially with the 6 cylinder engine, really the first GM I'd consider purchasing if we needed a larger vehicle.

The Sandman

Oh yeah man., at the DC auto show, there was a black Impala LTZ 3.6 with the brown/tan leather interior. It was gorgeous. . I had to wait in line to sit in it.

All the materials in it were first rate. I think it is a home run for a large sedan. Beautiful, strong lines without gimmicky styling that ends up not aging well. It will be just as beautiful in 15 years as it is today, IMHO.

ab348

I thought I'd like the Impala a lot more than I do. It's just so damn massive. The styling is fine, it just needs to be reduced to about 85%-90% of actual size. I am not a big fan of the dash & steering wheel design inside, and I wish to hell the interiors weren't so dark, at least all the ones I have seen.

stickguy

I saw a black LTZ Impala in a parking lot this AM. it did look stylish.