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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 801
    The Motor Trend test was very close. The cars are so closely matched in most areas that it comes down to personal preferences and the the question of resale value.

    According to Edmunds TCO (True Cost To Own) the Fusion SEL's Cost Per Mile is $0.51. The Accord EX-L's Cost Per Mile is $0.48. Variance in projected depreciation is why those numbers are identical. The Accord EX-L is projected to be worth 54% of its original value at 5-years vs. the Fusion SEL I4, which is projected to be worth 45% of its original value.

    The Fusion is projected to depreciate 23% in the first year. The Accord's first year depreciation is only 11%. The safest bet, if you plan to trade in a year or two, will be the Accord. If you plan to drive the car for beyond 5-years, the differences in residual value become a moot point.

    One of the few complaints I have about the 2010 Fusion, like the guys at MT, is the auto shifter. Not the transmission itself, but the lack of manual driver control. I'm not a fan of the trendy 'manu-matic' shifters with a separate manual gate for up/down shift. The Honda shifter has four gear selections- D, D3, 2 and 1. This allows the driver to hold the car in 3rd, 2nd or 1st when needed (engine braking, handy when driving down steep gradesm, etc). Another useful feature- if the gear shift lever is in the '2' position, the car will start out in 2nd gear (useful in slippery conditions to avoid wheelspin).

    The Fusion simply has D and L. What exactly is 'L' and which of the 5 lower gears does it select??? Thankfully, V6 Fusions have a manual shift gate for 2010.

    While the Fusion's shifter irks me, the Accord isn't flawless. I've owned Hondas for 17 of the last 20 years and the '08 Accord center control panel is the antithesis of Honda's legendary ergononic, intuitive interior design! :confuse: It's a deal breaker for me! The Fusion interior is much easier to live with (and to look at).

    The Fusion also has a few items on the options list that the Accord can't match. For example, the SEL offers the phenomenal 390-watt 12-speaker Sony Sound System. The EX-L has a lesser 270-watt 7-speaker setup (and regular EX models only have a 160-watt 6-speaker).

    The SEL also has the option of 18" Alloy Wheels (both cars have 17" standard). As with the stereo, it's nice to have a choice here. FYI- these are the same sharp 18" alloys used on the '09 Fusion Sport Appearance Package and Blue Suede Package.
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Your comment on the Honda center console reminded me of my #1 complaint on my 09 TCH, the center console, what the hell were they thinking lighting this whole thing up at night? Worse yet, you cant dim it without dimming the entire dash. A few times I had to turn the entire dash off so I could see where I was going when it was very dark and foggy.

    I have seen the 2010 Fusion, and the first thing I noticed, the dash did not have anything that would be a distraction on a dark stormy night. Personally I wish the 2010 had come out last year when I got my Camry Hybrid, I find it much more comfortable to sit in and ergonomically much nicer than the Camry.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    The Fusion simply has D and L. What exactly is 'L' and which of the 5 lower gears does it select???

    It's still an automatic mode, but it holds the RPM around 4,000 thereby providing engine braking. It will upshift from 1st or 2nd gear if necessary but will maintain high RPM. In the Edge and MKX there are some additional features with an Overdrive lockout switch in addition to the L position - not sure if that made it to the 2010s.

    I had heard Ford went to the D-L setup for the CVT transmission which was subsequently cancelled. I've never had to take my 06 Fusion out of D anyway although I would prefer to have more direct control available. My previous car was a 2000 Lincoln LS which was the first use of SelectShift in a F/L/M product and having that direct control over the gear selection is great, whether you're using it for sporty driving in the twisties or for starting out in 2nd or 3rd gear or forcing a downshift for passing early, etc. It's not a replacement for a manual but it is certainly the most control over an automatic.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    In the Edge and MKX there are some additional features with an Overdrive lockout switch in addition to the L position - not sure if that made it to the 2010s.

    FWIW our new Flex has those additional features. Basically you get two levels of hill descent control when you hit the O/D button on the shifter. You get a less aggressive mode in "D" and a more aggressive mode in "L". I've used it twice on dry roads while going down a couple of long, winding, and very steep roads. It worked pretty well for the most part once I figured out how to work it. You still have to keep your speed down for it to shift to a lower gear and apply the engine braking. Having gear options is still the best way to go, whether with a manumatic or the actual gears, but this should work for most folks too.

    I don't know if the Fusion got this either but you can get the SelectShift in the Sport model.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    A dual in the coming years between Ford and Honda for the top family sedan? Who would have even imagined Ford in the same sentence as Honda just 5 years ago when it came to family sedans. Who will come out with the next surprise? Hyundai? Mazda? I read very good things about the new Mazda 6. Can it claim a top 3 spot? Or... are the sales numbers going to flatten for Toyota/Honda and just be spread across the market to other manufacturers? There are some great sedans out there right now. Altima, 6, Malibu, even Subaru is coming out with a larger Legacy to compete. Wish I were in the market to buy.. Like a kid in a candy store.. :)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Who will come out with the next surprise? Hyundai? Mazda?

    Well, it won't be Mazda. The 6 was brand new for 2009, so it will be a long time before we see a new design. And the Mazda6 simply won't be able to reach the sales volumes of the Accord or Fulan. The Sonata, OTOH, is being redesigned for the 2011 MY, due out here next year. We already know it will be more of a coupe-ish style ala the CC and will offer a hybrid version. Next out of the gates, though, will be the new, larger Legacy. But Subaru won't be able to compete in volume with the likes of Honda or Toyota either. Then there's the U.S.-built replacement for the Passat coming on the heels of the Legacy and Sonata.

    One new mid-sizer you forgot is the all-new Suzuki sedan, due in a year or two, which appears to be their first serious entry in this class.

    Yes, lots of great choices in this class, with "more to come" as they say on The Tonight Show.
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,907
    I saw this claim on a Hyundai dealer's website and I am wondering how can they afford to do this?

    "We are one of New Englands Largest Hyundai Dealership and have the best selection available! The hardest part here won't be finding a car, it will be narrowing it down to just one!

    All of our clients who purchase new vehicles get a Free 20 year Powertrain Warranty, Free Loaner Vehicles with Service, as well as Free Inspection Stickers for LIFE!

    We understand you can buy your New Hyundai from anyone, but we want to seperate ourselves and give you FIRST class service and FIRST class satisfaction."
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Many dealers give you a loaner while your car is being serviced.Hyundai already has a 100,000 mile ten year warranty on the power train. How many people actually keep their car for 20 years anyway?It's a clever sales ploy,but not completely out of the realm of reality.
    How about that lifetime power train warranty that Chrysler has? make twenty years seem short.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    They are saving money by not spell checking their ads :D ("seperate")

    Of course it is not really free, it is just rolled into the price of the vehicles...if they were not giving this stuff away, they would be able to charge less for the cars they sell. Also the free loaner will lead to increased business for their service department.

    A dealer in my area offers a free used car with every new vehicle purchase. Of course, I don't believe the used vehicle is really free.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Who would know reliability and cost of repair better than a dealership? Since they service the cars they sell, they would know what the costs to them would be in the long run based on their current repair records, so that is how they can do it, plus based on the fact most people get rid of the car with 5 years, and less than 100K.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Considering Hyundai has only been selling cars in the U.S. for 23 years, I doubt they have much repair history on 10-20 yr old vehicles. Certainly nothing that would apply to the current vehicles. This offer is based on the unlikelihood that an original owner would keep the car past the factory warranty period.

    My guess is you could buy such an extended warranty (with the same restrictions) for a few hundred dollars, so the dealer just takes that out of their normal discount. Same with "lifetime" warranties.
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,907
    In Massachusetts an inspection sticker is $29 per year and the average daily rental is $44.95. If we figure a minimum of two service calls per year that adds up to $120 per year...Good marketing but that's a big hit on the bottom line.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Depends on the definition of "Service" - that may only be for warranty repairs.

    If the average buyer only keeps their vehicle for 5 or 6 years then it's really a moot point. They just build the average extra cost into the prices.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Just because $45 is the average rental charge to a retail customer, does not mean that this is the actual cost to the dealer of providing a loaner from their existing stock of used cars. Instead the cost to the dealer is probably comparable to the cost of a test drive or two.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    They probably figure if you come in for an inspection sticker, you'll have other service done, or it's an opportunity to sell additional services.
  • i360i360 Posts: 74
    Down here in Florida we have a local Honda dealership that offers a lifetime power train warranty on cars bought from them. Their bets are hedged through the reliability of the Honda engine and the fact that almost no one will keep the car that long.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    There was a Hyundai dealership near me in CT (they recently moved a few miles further away) which used to advertise free tire replacement, lifetime engine warranty and (I think) free battery replacement.

    Sounds good...BUT all service work had to be done at their dealership, otherwise the "goodies" were void. And their service requirements were more demanding than that of Hyundai. Every 3,000 miles you had to change your oil with them (maybe they'd make an exception for a long road trip vacation-like CT to FL). Their service packages A,B,C,D & E (mileage dependent) could get pretty pricey.

    Plus, they were high priced for buying a new car. In April, '05 the best they could do was split the difference of MSRP & invoice for $550 off MSRP on the Sonata. The $1500 (at the time) rebate would also apply. However, they would then add in an advertising fee of $500...even showed me an invoice with adv. fee printed on it--in bold face type. Dealer fee to be added was $399. The price would have been in excess of MSRP before taxes and registration. I paid $1800 less elsewhere.

    A buddy bought an '07 Azera Limited w/ Ultimate Pkg at Town Hyundai in NJ for $3,000 less than the CT dealer wanted for a left over '06 Azera w/out Ultimate Pkg. in June, '07. So, all that free stuff certainly did have a price tag.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    that either Hyundia drops the 10yr,100,000 mile warranty because of costs... or Ford/GM/Honda ect all get on the band wagon and add longer warranties to their line-ups.. As consumers lets hope its the latter... ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Given the trend, i.e. several car companies including GM, Ford, and Chrysler upping their powertrain warranties after Hyundai/Kia created their long-term warranty, and more recently other companies following Hyunidai's lead on the "assurance" program, I expect it will be the latter. If the 10 year/100k warranty hurt Hyundai/Kia because of costs over the past 10 years, I would expect they'd have killed it by now. In fact, they threatened to do that a couple of years ago, claiming it was no longer necessary as a marketing ploy, but the dealers went ballistic so the warranty stayed.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,679
    A lot of dealers are doing that - our Toyota dealer, Honda, etc.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 801
    Exactly whose lifetime does the Chrysler Lifetime Powertrain Warranty cover- the vehicle's or the company's?

    Who wants to drive a Chrysler forever anyway? I imagine there would be a rather high rate of owners doing themselves in if they were stuck driving a Chrysler forever! :shades:
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 801
    A lot of buyers don't realize that almost all of these long-term (100k, Lifetime) warranties aren't transferrable if the car is sold. For example, Hyundai, KIA and Mitsubishi drop from 10-year/100,000 miles to 5-year/60,000 miles if transferred to a second owner during the warranty coverage period. Suzuki is one of the few makes that transfers the full warranty to a second owner.
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Yep, and frankly, I think a 5 year / 60,000 miles bumper-to-bumper is still darn good. My girlfriend just bought an 07 Santa Fe and has 45k miles and 3 years left on her warranty, all without needing it to be "certified pre-owned" and costing more. Beats the major players by a long shot.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The 10-year/100,000 miles that apparently becomes 5-year/60,000 miles, if transferred to a second owner, is a power train warranty not bumper-to-bumper.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Actually, in cases like Hyundai, Kia, and Mitsubishi, the 2nd owner gets the remainder of the 5 year/60k bumper-to-bumper warranty, which of course includes the powertrain.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Ah, I see. So basically the extended power train warranty is only for the original owner. I had thought their warranty (bumper to bumper) was 5 year/50K mi.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Yep. For a few years, Hyundai allowed the powertrain warranty to transfer within a family, but they stopped doing that in (I think) 2003. So I simply retain the title to my 2004 Hyundai while my son uses up its 10 year powertrain warranty. :)

    It's kind of funny I think that you can buy a used car (i.e. a certified used car) that has more manufacturer warranty than a new car. I nearly jumped on a one-year-old certified Sonata a couple months ago, as it had four years of bumper-to-bumper warranty and nine years of powertrain warranty. But I got a certified Rabbit instead, and it has 4 years of bumper-to-bumper warranty (vs. 3 years on a new VW).
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
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  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 801
    It's kind of funny I think that you can buy a used car (i.e. a certified used car) that has more manufacturer warranty than a new car.

    That's why I bought a 2007 Accord LX V6 a few months back. A 2009 Accord has 3/36 bumper-to-bumper and 5/60 powertrain coverage. My '07 had 22k miles on it and is covered bumper-to-bumper for another 24 months (4yrs from original date sold) and 26k miles (48k from new). The powertrain warranty coverage is 7/100 from new, which is five years and 78k miles.
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    It's kind of funny I think that you can buy a used car (i.e. a certified used car) that has more manufacturer warranty than a new car.

    Not funny at all. You can buy a new car with the same extended warranty. For a certified used car the selling dealer is paying for the extended warranty and including it in the cost of the car. No different than any other added accessory.
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