Midsize Sedans 2.0

[Deleted User]

@Michaell@Edmunds said: Sedans are the cheapest to insure, and the safety features now available may mitigate some of the inevitable stupidity behind the wheel (multiple airbags, ABS, TCS, etc.).

Let's hope the OP has a kid whose head is screwed on straight - that, more that the car they are driving, will determine if they make it out of their teens. Let's hope the OP has a kid whose head is screwed on straight - that, more that the car they are driving, will determine if they make it out of their teens.

I think you and I are in tune with this topic.

Also, I spent my learners permit time with a 1978 Plymouth Trail Duster 4x4, (rust killed it) then a 1983 Dodge K car wagon, with "rich Corinthian" red vinyl interior, (mom-mobile) a 1979 Fiat Strata, (the answer to why Fiat left country) and then finally I financed my own '87 Cavalier Z (freedom at last).

None of those cars had airbags or safety equipment of any kind. The Fiat (neighbor gave me for free) had no window cranks, interior door handles, heat or vent, or gauges of any kind.
I had to leave the windows down all summer, and drilled holes in the floor to let the rain out. Anyway, I survived.

dash5

My son is only 6 but reading this conversation is interesting. I wonder what he will be driving in 10 years. Maybe something Tesla-esque.

stickguy

I would rather have 175 HP and 40 mpg highway instead of 30/300. Something like an Altima or Mazda 6 has a very good balance if great mpg and plenty quick enough (low to mid 7s 0-60).

rbirns1

Stepped away for the weekend and came back to a bunch of nice replies. Thanks to all.

As follow up, compact cars are out. Kid is 6-5, let's give him a little room. Manual is also out, thanks to NY-area traffic. I also don't think manuals are good for new drivers (though he has been driving 3+ years already). I want them focused on the road, not the pedals, with two hands on the wheel. Learn to drive a stick once everything else is second nature.

m6user

Hey, you make a lot of sense but prepare for the onslaught of "OMG, he has to learn a stick first" fanatics. I will say one good thing about driving a stick is that it keeps the hands busy and off the cell phones! But then again, maybe not, and that would be even more dangerous. Good luck.

suydam

No, my daughter admitted to me not long ago that as a teenager, she became adept at driving with her knees while texting. Manual transmission would not matter. Most of them do survive just fine, but a trustworthy vehicle ups the odds at least. My first two learned to drive without any modern safety features except air bags, but I made sure my third had them all. Take advantage of the modern era! By the way, my sons are both over 6 feet, and they did fine in a Buick LeSabre, Mazda 626 (back then), Honda Accord, and Toyota Camry. Midsize is a good choice.

[Deleted User]

I like backy's VW Jetta/Golf TDI suggestion too. My old '96 Passat TDI is still going strong with 200k on it.

dash5

@rbirns1 said:

I also don't think manuals are good for new drivers (though he has been driving 3+ years already). I want them focused on the road, not the pedals, with two hands on the wheel. Learn to drive a stick once everything else is second nature.<

OMG he has to learn stick first!!

Just kidding. But maybe rent a manual for a couple of days and give the basics? I feel like it's one of those things you should get done early or it never gets done hah.

rbirns1

My college roommate had a manual, which I just kinda figured out on my own how to drive the one time I borrowed it. That was 30 years ago. I have never needed to drive a stick since. Most people can go their entire lives without needing that skill. As for my son, his girlfriend has a manual. If he wants to learn, he has the opportunity.

[Deleted User]

There will be a first annual DC Optima meet this coming Sunday, April 13th at 1:00 PM

We are meeting at Potomac Mills Mall next to IKEA. Anyone is welcome, Optima or not. Potential mid size buyers please stop by! If you have a competing mid size, you are welcome as well! This is not a sponsored event by any advertiser, car dealer, etc. Just owners and cars.

Also, I have added this picture of the "K" badges that are very popular with Optima owners, instead of a giant KIA badge. Available individually or as a set.

ab348

@suydam said:
No, my daughter admitted to me not long ago that as a teenager, she became adept at driving with her knees while texting.

This scares me to death. Hope she has quit that.

suydam

She's an adult now, so no. But I think it's pretty common. Inexperience plus youth. Actually there's a new video on texting and driving that is more effective than past ones have been on showing just how impaired you get when distracted. Should be mandatory for everyone.

explorerx4

rbirns1
I'd recommend a small CUV instead of a mid size sedan, since your son will be driving in the NY area (I'm assuming NYC).
They are not too long, good for parking and have extra ground clearance over a sedan.
My kids drive hand me down Escapes.

suydam

Some of them are a little hard to see out the back. Of course, not all sedans have good visibility either.

explorerx4

@suydam‌ Try parking in NYC. Short is good. We take my mom's Fiesta when we drive to Manhattan.

[Deleted User]

Here in VA the new texting while driving law that went into effect last July is all full of holes. It is illegal to text, but entering an address in GPS and dialing a phone # is exempt.

Also, if your vehicle is "lawfully parked" you can do whatever you want. So, technically texting at a stoplight is just fine.

It was only when I saw a county cop typing on his laptop at the light on my street(which are strapped into all police cars here, and probably most everywhere) AND entering something on his cellphone when I realized why the law is full of holes.
So, I was really happy when yesterday it was announced that if you cause an accident while using a cell phone that involves injury and property damage, you can get one year in jail, and pay up to a $5000 fine. I can't imagine how awful it must be for parents to lose their children over an unimportant text message. Myself included.

ahightower

Update: did not take the job with the long commute. Instead, have cut mine in half to 10 miles. Am very glad to have the "fun" car (as far as mainstream sedans go), and looking forward to keeping it a long, long time now that the miles will accumulate so slowly. Going 2-3 weeks between fill-ups, and 10-12 months between oil changes... I may feel the need to go for some longer drives on the weekends just for fun!

m6user

Talk about a win-win. Good for you.

[Deleted User]

Great news ahightower. Just curious, how didja cut the commute time to 10 mins? Did you find a wormhole?

I see all these new oils don't need tomb be changed for up to a year, but I have been programmed (by big oil?) to bring mine in every 5000 miles. I never thought 3,000 miles was necessary, but I never let it go longer than 5k.

Does anyone have some inside info on how these oils work? What about the tiny metal shavings that I have been told do all kinds of damage to an ICE unless we change the oil very frequently?

explorerx4

I get the oil changed and tires rotated every 5K, mostly because I like to get the tires rotated.

akirby

New oils and engines can easily go 10K and be perfectly fine depending on driving conditions.

suydam

Here's the explanation from Edmunds:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop-changing-your-oil.html

ahightower

Should have been more clear. Took a different new job, closer to home. As for oil changes, the Accord has an oil life monitor and tells you when to change. It went about 7500 miles before the first was required. That used to seem long to me, but it became my habit on my last car. Our 2005 Yukon also has a monitor that usually recommends a change around 6500 miles. I always use a name brand synthetic oil and a high quality filter (usually Mobil 1). Even that is probably not strictly necessary as the owners manual said conventional is fine, but I reckon it's worth the extra $15 given the time/distance it allows, and the oppressive summer heat around here.

Michaell

While I don't own a mid-size myself, I know several folks who do.

One of them has a 2011 or 2012 Optima Hybrid. Found out that after 36,000 miles the entire transmission has to be rebuilt. Covered under warranty, but this is a person who took his last car (Corolla) to 230K, so he's understandably upset that he needs such a major repair done so early in the car's life.

It's a sample of one, so I'm drawing no conclusions from this story. Just wanted to share.

brian125

Michaell@Edmunds said:

It's a sample of one, so I'm drawing no conclusions from this story. Just wanted to share.

My 2013 Accord V-6 exl that I bought last Feb started to leak trans fluid in Jan, 2014 with only 3k miles on it. After honda did some testing on the unit, shot dye into the Trans they found out it was leaking internal. There also was a crack in the seal housing .. Honda replaced my transmission. So far no problems with the new trans.

ab348

Transmissions are complex and can be hard for dealer techs to fix. My former '09 Lacrosse (old style) had transmission problems from day one and 3 dealer teardowns did nothing to make it right. Among other things, that was a big reason why I dumped it.

stickguy

you do have to distinguish between bad design/prone to fail components, and just the bad luck to get a defective one. Sounds like the 3k miles Honda was just a manufacturing or assembly defect, so no reason to think the replacement is going to have a problem (at least based on that situation, not their history with V6 ATs!)

brian125

Correct probably Assembly defect.. The cars is running fine. My daughters loaner car was the Accord exl 4 cyl.. She said that it was very peppy.

[Deleted User]

I read in this months C/D that they have a long term Honda Accord Sport. With 31k on the odometer the only unscheduled dealer visit was to turn the rotors on two separate occasions. Then noted 3 oil changes during the period w/o incident.

On Friday night, I started my car at about midnight after leaving a friends birthday party. My transmission was not shifting right. After about 5 mins it warmed up and was fine, but it really slipped and flunked into gear 3 or 4 times. I am taking it in Tuesday. No CEL was indicated.

brian125

Honda has had well documented trans problems on several earlier models. Accords, Civic's, Pilots and old Passports. My old 2003 Pilot that i gave to my nephew after 4 years had the Trans. replaced at 98k miles from what i was told.. Still going thou at 140k

dash5

Speaking of transmission and other problems, I recently saw these two JD Power charts rating dependability and it's interesting to see how far they've come:

brian125

Poor Dodge can't catch a break.

ab348

Had Dodge ever been considered a quality car since the early 1950s? In the late '50s the quality problems were legendary, in the '60s and '70s Chrysler quality generally was awful, and in the '80s and '90s they still seem to have not been particularly well-made. Some things never seem to change.

explorerx4

It's been a long winter, but spring is finally here. Usually, I pop in my Boston's Greatest Hits to celebrate. but over the winter when I went to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame I bought a Beach Boys Greatest Hits CD. That's going to get played tomorrow.
My Fusion a CD player, but I wonder how much longer these will be available?

akirby

Today's worst brands were above average just 6 years ago.

[Deleted User]

Kia moved up from 233 in 2008 to 151 in 2014. A big difference. My transmission is back to normal and showed no sign pf problems on my way to yesterdays event, which took 55 minutes to go 13 miles on I-95.

....and with that said,

We had the 1st annual Optima/K5 owners meet yesterday. About 20 people showed up, with a total of 10 cars. The new 2014 SX Turbo in SWP (Snow White Pearl) really stole the show. Pictures don't do it justice. It has the best wheels I have ever seen on a mid size. The bodywork was just beautiful, with little accents in all the right places. Anyway, a good turnout considering a one week notice. Every model was represented, The owners (and their friends) were very nice, and all opened up their cars for anyone to sit in and thoroughly examine. We are already planning a fall meet, and hope to include the Sonata boards, and anyone else in a mid-size is welcome!

ivan_99

@brian125 said:
Poor Dodge can't catch a break.

To be fair to Dodge (never owned one...) it did cut a large amount of problems...but so did everybody

The most-improved seems to be Mercedes, they cut their problems more than in half to take the silver.. Land Rover also did...but they went from horrible to pretty-bad (all relative here).

Lexus deserves a shiny star too, breaking way-under the 100 problems per 100 vehicles. All the others require a trip to the dealer to have something addressed...this is the first time you may not need to (68/100)

Over all it looks very impressive...a new VW with the same amount of problems as a 2008 Toyota

[Deleted User]

ivan_99 Quote: The most-improved seems to be Mercedes, they cut their problems more than in half to take the silver.

...because they cut Chrysler!

The newest Chrysler complaints surround using the same dash hardware whether it's a Dart or a Viper. This is done by every conglomerate, but it has to be done artfully.

Now with the Fiat merger, even the Maserati Ghibli fhas the 8.4' touchscreen and all the power window controls, buttons, and do-dads from your average minivan. The engine block is plucked straight from the Chrysler plant and sent to Ferrari (thankfully) to have the engine fully Italianized. The automotive community called the Ghibli "half baked".

Fortunately, the new 200 has a beautiful new interior that will compete with the best that America, Asia and Germany has to offer. Can't wait to check one out in person, Especially the AWD version with the 295 HP V6.

ivan_99

@cski said:
ivan_99 Quote: The most-improved seems to be Mercedes, they cut their problems more than in half to take the silver.

...because they cut Chrysler!

The newest Chrysler complaints surround using the same dash hardware whether it's a Dart or a Viper. This is done by every conglomerate, but it has to be done artfully.

Now with the Fiat merger, even the Maserati Ghibli fhas the 8.4' touchscreen and all the power window controls, buttons, and do-dads from your average minivan. The engine block is plucked straight from the Chrysler plant and sent to Ferrari (thankfully) to have the engine fully Italianized. The automotive community called the Ghibli "half baked".

Fortunately, the new 200 has a beautiful new interior that will compete with the best that America, Asia and Germany has to offer. Can't wait to check one out in person, Especially the AWD version with the 295 HP V6.

You may be accurate regarding the Mercedes recent turnaround

The only new Chrysler/Dodge I've driven in recently was a Durango Citadel...and I did say "wow" (Mercedes roots )

[Deleted User]

4 door sedan picture of the day.....http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-PONTIAC-GRAND-AM-REAR-DOOR-WINDOW-REGULATOR-POWER-LEFT-2338480-/271374013256?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&amp;fits=Year:2004|Make:Pontiac|Model:Grand+Am&amp;hash=item3f2f26d348&amp;vxp=mtr

LOLOLOLOLOLOL....Free shipping?? On all of it? How do I get it out? (see picture)

brian125

Check out these sale numbers on midsize cars and trucks from 2013/ 2014,

Please find the March Auto Sales which shows honda is still low compared to last year ;

http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2014-04-01/march-us-auto-sales.html

Michaell

Who here has a Fusion? I've got a poster in the "Fusion Lease Questions" discussion who has a pretty good offer from the dealer, but now he's concerned that the price is so low because it's an inferior car.

Could one of you jump over there and reassure him that there isn't anything wrong with the Fusion and he's getting a pretty good deal?

Thanks.

ahightower

I've always read about brake issues with Hondas, and it did give me pause. But I liked the car enough to take a chance, and the 2013 is said to have been upgraded with bigger, slotted discs. I suspect that journalists, driving like they stole it and putting that many miles on in a year, are much more abusive than I ever will be. But having the rotors turned every 15K (probably need replacing every 45K) would really aggravate me.

I cannot recall if Edmunds' last long-term Accord required abnormally high brake maintenance.

@cski said:
I read in this months C/D that they have a long term Honda Accord Sport. With 31k on the odometer the only unscheduled dealer visit was to turn the rotors on two separate occasions. Then noted 3 oil changes during the period w/o incident.

ahightower

@brian125 said:
Poor Dodge can't catch a break.

Yet, still better than the 2008 industry average. It sucks for them to still be ranked near the bottom, but no doubt they are tremendously improved. And certain to get better as they replace their final aging products (midsize sedans).

explorerx4

@‌ michaell
I have a Fusion and it's a great car, but if someone thinks it's not a good car, let them get something else, and someone else can get their good deal.

brian125

ahightower,

Another poster mentioned about the Durango. Which i agree. Very nice reviews... Ride and handling , Quiet inside the cabin, Looks sharp.. Amazing how pricey this suv is as you go up in models.

My concern with this dodge truck is : If i wanted to buy the upscale version durango in excess of 40k and wanted to keep it 8 or 10 years " How much money will i have to shell out to keep it Intact and running like its competition would. Owning Three or 4 years who cares if your leasing or going to sell it.

That would be my concern. I would never consider a Dodge vehicle anyway.... Sorry Dodge. Work harder to make a better product. Re-sale value on dodge vehicles are bad

What are your thoughts .................... am i off base with this.

ahightower

This is cool. Props to enthusiasts no matter our state in life. Maybe I'll steal the show at Cars & Coffee when I'm old and rich, but for now, I still take pride in my car. Glad y'all are having fun up there.

@cski said:
Kia moved up from 233 in 2008 to 151 in 2014. A big difference. My transmission is back to normal and showed no sign pf problems on my way to yesterdays event, which took 55 minutes to go 13 miles on I-95.

....and with that said,

We had the 1st annual Optima/K5 owners meet yesterday. About 20 people showed up, with a total of 10 cars. The new 2014 SX Turbo in SWP (Snow White Pearl) really stole the show. Pictures don't do it justice. It has the best wheels I have ever seen on a mid size. The bodywork was just beautiful, with little accents in all the right places. Anyway, a good turnout considering a one week notice. Every model was represented, The owners (and their friends) were very nice, and all opened up their cars for anyone to sit in and thoroughly examine. We are already planning a fall meet, and hope to include the Sonata boards, and anyone else in a mid-size is welcome!

brian125

Dont mess with the............. Kia Boys.

Maybe next time get a shot with Hooter's in the the back round with the girls around the car club.

[Deleted User]

Right. I agree that Chrysler-Fiat has made great strides in improving quality, as of late, but the same promising improvements were made with its merger to Mercedes. The 300 was supposed to be America's $30k Mercedes, and it was arguably successful. It is still made today and is a very handsome vehicle.

Unfortunately, it has only been a short time since the Durango was one of the worst built vehicles our proud country had to offer, and many potential buyers like myself are old enough to remember Fiat's with bits that would break off in your hand. I owned one.

Then again, I also owned a 1986 Audi 5000s*, with the s meaning something that I can't say here, but they now make cars that are desirable worldwide.

Let's hope Chrysler and Fiat make happy whoopee together and the merger stands the test of time, because what they both need now is stability, long term.

• No my 5000 did not have unintended acceleration, but it did have unintended engine, electrical, coolant, and brake failures repeatedly until being dropped off at the junkyard.

nyccarguy

@brian125‌

I think the Durango is really sharp looking and gets fantastic reviews. I agree there is a certain degree of sticker shock when you look at the window of a HEMI powered, decked out Durango. You of all people have got to know that you (the educated, patient buyer) are not going to pay anywhere close to what it says on the sticker. The dealer in Greenwich still advertises they have 2013s on the lot that you can save "over $9,000" on. If I wasn't hell bent on keeping my wife's Pilot until the wheels fall off, I'd give a steeply discounted Durango a serious look.

The depreciation on the American full size trucks is steep. As far as keeping them on the road, maintenance costs are minimal. My Dad has a 2011 LTZ Tahoe. In 2 years & 54,000 miles it has been back to the dealer exactly once. Our general mechanic in The Bronx does all the maintenance on it. He's still on the original tires. Compare that to my Mom's former 2011 V6 Cayenne which required $6,000 worth of maintenance in a similar time period.

Sorry to hijack the mid sized sedan thread with SUV chat.