Midsize Sedans 2.0

explorerx4

i don't know what the actual ratings will be (or real world mileage), but a 4 will probably get a noticeably higher city rating than a 6.

kdhspyder

Note the wording...

The rest of the industry has V6's with 250+ hp and fuel economy ratings in the 30 mpg range
I didn't say 30 mpg min.

But just to mention two in that range..

Camry V6, 268 hp and 28 mpg
Avalon, 268 hp and 28 mpg

jeffyscott

My eyeballs see about 10% drop in mpg for every 5 mph increase at freeway speeds here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/driveHabits.shtml

So going 70 instead of 75 could mean ~34 mpg instead of 30-31.

explorerx4

so why are you trying to be obtuse?
it just makes it seem like you are trying to confuse things.

backy

Have you driven the Fusion? Personally I prefer its blend of ride and handling over the Accord. I think the current-gen Accord has lost some of its handling crispness from past generations, albeit is smoother without the "feel every pebble" ride from pre-2008. But the Fusion is smoother still yet with sharp handling, at least as good as the current Accord's IMO.

As for manual transmissions... we'll have to see if the 6-speed in the new Sonata is as good as the 5-speed in the Accord. The last Hyundai I had with a stick was a 2001 Elantra, and its shift feel was "OK" but didn't have the Honda crispness. I'll bet though that MT Sonatas will be a very small percentage of the 2011 units, especially with the 6AT with paddle shifters available.

m6user

Ok, it's just gramatics...don't get all bold letters on me. I would probably say almost 30mpg or something like that because I thought you meant something different.

I think the V6 Sonata also is at either 28 or even 29 hwy mpg and is around 250 hp or in that range anyway.

benjaminh

backy: No, I haven't driven a Fusion, and I actually like the styling a bit better than the Accord. I think the Fusion looks sleek and functional, and certainly seems to represent good value for the money.

I've heard that Fords are also quite reliable these days.

Unfortunately I'm one of those who holds a grudge for owning a 2000 Ford Focus ZTS that suffered through a dozen increasingly alarming recalls before I gave up on it. It may not be rational, but my grudge is still there for now, and I'm not sure it'll go away.

I genuinely admire the Fusion's looks, however, and it's nice to see Ford doing so well with such a sharp product.

benjaminh

good points on my rather weak mpg spyder and jeffy---maybe I'd better pull back on the lead foot. I do go 65-70 a lot of times...

8babies1dog

Just a note to add about a Mazda, I still have a 2002-626, the last
year of that style. It's has what I call a baby V6 2.5L 165HP, it has
2 little tail pipes but only 1 muffler. But it also has the MAZDA "zoom"
as they call it, no turbo just DOHC 24 valve. I don't race any more
but if did I would put this (baby) engine up against any new version
I4 (non turbo) even with up to 25HP more. BUT!! it doesn't have a prayer up against the nowadays V-6's of any make. I know I know
this is not a race forum, just making a point about how the new
technology is pulling so much HP/MPG ratios out of these small but
very powerful cars engines.

The little V6 may not win the race but you will know you were in one.

backy

I had a similar experience with a 1995 Mystake, er, Mystique. Lots of recalls. But I really liked the car--when it wasn't in the shop. Unfortunately, both the 2000 Focus and 1995 Contique were the first model years, and Quality wasn't quite Job 1 for Ford at that time. They seem to have turned the corner on quality, though, and I'd give them another chance. In fact, if I could have found a low-miles Fusion for a decent price a couple of weeks ago, I'd be driving one now instead of a Sonata. I think word of the Fusion's goodness is getting out, as used car prices have shot up in the past year. But then, the prices of most used cars have shot up in the past year.

benjaminh

Backy--yikes, the Mercury Mystake in the first year was grim, I hear. I remember Click and Clack joking about it. I called my Focus ZTS "Zits" by the end, and then I popped it and traded for an Accord.

How's the Sonata? It's a heck of a lot of car for the money. I think the Hyundai engineers are getting closer to the leaders with every generation of Sonata, and with the 2011 they may have not only caught up but reached the top in a few areas. Nice that it's made in Alabama too...

backy

The 2007 Sonata is a ton of car for what I paid, looks and drives like new, nearly 2.5 years of bumper-to-bumper warranty left, tons of room, very comfy, plenty of pep, and I think very good looking in a classic sedan-ish kind of way. Very nice car, especially considering it's a five-year-old design. But I think the Fusion has superior ride and handing.

I wonder how the 2011 Sonata will look to us in 2016, or 2021? Some cars have classic styling--Audi and BMW for example. They still look good 10 or more years later. The new Sonata is very daring for a family car. Will it stand the test of time?

stephen987

I'm skeptical about daring styling in midsize sedans. This is not a market segment that rewards drama, especially on the part of manufacturers that are still in the process of building (or rebuilding) a reputation. Midsize buyers are risk-averse, and I think that carries over into styling.

When the '06 Sonata came out, the pundits complained that it seemed dated and derivative, and compared it to the already long-gone '98-02 Accord in its conservatism. Yet four years later, the same basic design still looks nice, restrained, not particularly dated--dare I say "classy"? One could say the same about the Optima too.

Meanwhile the "daring" '06-09 Fusion (an excellent car in most respects) seems like last year's trendy look.

Incidentally, at the risk of going OT, does anyone else out there think the Cruze is a dead ringer for the Sonata/Optima?

m6user

The '11 Sonata is a pretty radical departure from what we're used to seeing from Hyundai. However, I think if it was a Mazda, Nissan or even a Toyota design we probably wouldn't consider it as dramatic as we are because it's a Hyundai and were used to seeing some pretty bland stuff from them.

jkobty2

Yes we still have 3 Leganza's in the family, all 3 running very well, original engine and transmission. My friend with the Honda went through 3 transmissions by 90K when he traded his car in, before the lease was over, for another Honda. Some people never learn. But he leases his cars because he is self employed and then returns them, so he does not care what happens after 4 years.
I do not look at the brand name, and I am not loyal to any particular brand, I get the car that I like, and I feel is will be good value and looks good. I maintain it properly, and so far have not been let down.
I do tend to pick cars that eventually get a cult following. Check out on youtube the Daewoo leganza.
Some people even did music videos for their souped up Leganza's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_1e-kcYJkc
It is also in Guigiaros page
http://www.italdesign.it/dinamic/gallery/gallery_scheda.php?id=316&num_rows=1&fa- mily=p&data_p_title=Giorgetto+Giugiaro

I hope my new mazda6 ends up as reliable, because it surely looks good and is also attracting the same type of activity on youtube.

dodgeman07

...does anyone else out there think the Cruze is a dead ringer for the Sonata/Optima?

----------------------------------

I see some similar lines but the Cruze is much smaller and aimed at the Elantra.

Chevy did a nice job with the Cruze and although it's technically a C segment vehicle and doesn't qualify for this thread, it's EPA Interior Volume is very close to the Malibu (110 cu.ft vs 113 cu.ft) and it has a larger truck than the Malibu to boot!

jkobty2

I love the interior on the 2011 sonata, but I think the exterior is a bit busy.
The really nice car coming from Korea will be the 2011 KIA K7. It was designed by an Audi designer and you can easily tell from this video, especially the rear lights and front headlight treatements. A very classy car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2AiitnVj5I

scotschool

Last Friday, my girlfriend called me when I was driving on the road. I knew that using cellphone while driving is illegal, but that call was from my sweetie. Suddenly, a drunk rushed across the road, I instinctively turned the steering wheel ... My car almost ran into a lamp pole. I really want to kill that bugger! Horrible!!! I think I need a bluetooth hand-free kit. I wonder if any dude here can tell me where I can get a cheap bluetooth hand-free kit. I hope guys who have ever bought bluetooth hand-free kit respond! :blush:

scotschool

A month ago, I bought a handsfree bluetooth car kit at sinamalls through PAYPAL. The moment when I saw the price I very much doubted the quality of the product. You know, the same item is sold 180 dollars at automobile store, while only 65 dollars are needed on SM. Two weeks later I received the product, to be honest, the quality was not bad. LOL…. My brother seemed very unhappy because he spent 160 dollars buying the bluetooth car kit which has the same function as mine, even the out-looks are the same. I suspect that these two devices are from the same Chinese factory since they are many OEM factories in China.What do you say? :lemon:

benjaminh

Yes, I think the current Sonata is a good looking design. I think the current Fusion is equally clean and classic.

The new 2011 Sonata is more daring and busy in its design, but I think it's still pretty good looking and is likely to be relatively enduring. It seems slightly more integrated and good looking than my 2008 Accord, but that's probably not saying much.

iluvmysephia1

the new Kia K7 sedan you gave the YouTube link to will be called the Kia Cadenza. And the reason it has the Audi touch to it is because it's design Chief was none other than Peter Schreyer, the Design Chief Kia hired away from Audi Motors.

Now that is a classy new offering from Kia.

benjaminh

That Kia is shaaaaarp! What an ad. Cool. Nice styling. Minimalist rather than somewhat busy Sonata.

akirby

I think you should just buy a new Fusion with Sync. That will definitely fix your hands-free phone issue.

m6user

Two products.

BlueAnt SupertoothII-Battery, clip on visor, works good, charge lasts very long time. About $60-80 online.

Parrot-Wired into sound system. Works good, different models cost between $150-$250 online. However, unless you're very handy, it can cost $100-200 for installation especially on amplified systems.

8babies1dog

Or a Sonata SE w/ blue tooth maybe.

jeffyscott

Unfortunately I'm one of those who holds a grudge for owning a 2000 Ford Focus ZTS

Too bad you did not wait a year, the Focii have been pretty reliable from 2001 on (of course we may have made the same mistake, my wife has car from the first model year of a redesign, 2005 Jetta). So far only warranty and recall repairs.

explorerx4

as an owner of an '07 fusion, i take offense.
the '10 fusion is a nice update, though.
the sonata is kind of anonymous, not good not bad.
just about every has their good and not so good angles to be viewed from.
my ruler for the looks of my vehicles is, if i go into the garage, do i still like how it looks? the fusion still makes the grade.
when my wife had a 96 taurus, it did not make the grade after a while.

berri

I agree that the '11 Sonata looks nice in the pix. But it seems similar to the Mazda 6 which hasn't seemed to have done a lot for sales. I think the Fusion has more traditional or classic design lines and while consumers often state they love the more daring look, too often they end up buying what is traditional and comfortable. Ford made that mistake when they over-relied on consumer marketing panels and brought out the gen II Taurus. But Hyundai has been doing a lot of surprising lately, so who knows how it will go over!

benjaminh

over at a site about the Honda (vtec.net) there's been some discussion about the direct injection engine technology that the 2011 Sonata will have. Apparently there are some trade offs and maintenance issues with DI, such as gunk buildup over time that can become costly to fix, and nvh issues. I guess VW has built quite a few DI engines, and some of them are having issues. Don't know if Hyundai has some magic fix for things that may be hard engineering challenges to overcome.

backy

I guess VW has built quite a few DI engines, and some of them are having issues.

Why am I not surprised?

Interesting that the folks over in Honda land are already trashing these Hyundai engines. I suppose since they aren't Honda engines, they will be crap. :P