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It seems rather foolhardy to produce a vehicle that misses many of the key things that buyers are looking for in that segment. @maxamillion85 identifies many of those issues in his review. Wind and road noise at unacceptable levels, a bad infortainment system, poor seating position and visibility. My point in my original post was really about the credibility of reviewers/review sites and their inability to identify these as issues. I get that all these people who write about cars want everything to drive and handle like a Porsche. But that is foolish in the midsize family sedan segment. Did any of them even think to mention this disconnect? It is almost as bad as reading the comments on any review from the 20-something kids who mod their cars and think everyone should drive something lowered, chipped, that bounces over bumps and sounds like a chainsaw. A family midsizer doesn't have to handle like a bowl of Jello, but neither should it punish the occupants with NVH and basic issues of visibility, access, and ease of use.
My comment about "underperforming" was based upon reports in Automotive News and elsewhere that came from people who would know. If Mazda is disappointed in sales, then I guess it is underperforming. I think they took a chance with this design, so good for them, but it is not working out.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Maxamillion85, good review and enjoy your Fusion. It's a good thing there are so many choices because we have such different impressions. I never drove the Fusion but did drive Altima and Accord before getting the Accord. What you consider boring, I call classic. I love the interiors of both Altima and Accord, and I really love the Accord's dual screen system. But what sold me on the Accord was the driving experience, the great visibility, turning agility and fuel economy. A year and a half later I still love it. There are a few things I don't like about it of course, namely the stereo quality. I hope in a year's time you love your Fusion as much!
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
Thanks man! Glad you are loving your Accord. I've got my fingers crossed on the Fusion..if it performs well, I'll reward Ford by purchasing a Mustang next.
Another reason I think the 6 sold pretty poorly last year was packaging. Up until MY2015, the only way you could get a sunroof in a Mazda6 was to go for the fully loaded Grand Touring. That was a STUPID decision on Mazda's part and was corrected for MY2015. You cannot get the moonroof pkg on the Touring model with a stick shift though.
Its a wonderful driver's cars...but it still seems compromised where it matters to most consumers. Add in the fact that its pricing is a bit higher than Camcords (but its equipped nicer) and its easy to see why the car doesn't sell well. Having a TINY dealership network also doesn't help. I will say this though. I'd expect the 6 to probably be more reliable than the Fusion.
Mazda's quality for the most part is just as good as Honda and Toyotas. Nissan's quality is not all that great IMO.
I didn't drive a 6 when I was shopping because --- only 1 dealer in my area and I don't like them. But I have owned Mazdas and they were very reliable. As for Nissans, my last midsize was a Maxima and that was a great car. And I have a lot of friends with Altimas who love them.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
Up here in the salt belt, Mazdas still have a reputation for premature rusting. Loyalists say that's no longer true and that they have finally addressed that problem. But the reputation sticks, and seeing lots of early-mid 2000s Mazda 3s on the roads with significant rust probably doesn't help. Once those go away maybe the rep will change, assuming it actually has been fixed.
My perception, not based on any actual firsthand experience mind you, is that I agree with your assessment of Nissan quality. When I look at them on the dealer lots, they remind me of Hyundais, built to a price.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Thanks for your reports. Sounds like you got a great deal on a very good car. The Fusion is definitely one of the top cars out there, and for your needs it sounds like it was the best.
Congrats!
But I'm just slightly puzzled by your comment that "0-60 means absolutely nothing to me in midsize family sedan."
Every time I get on the freeway I test out my car's 0-60 speed. And I have to admit my 2008 Accord 5 MT is a little lacking in that dept. That's why the new generation of 6MT Accord, which gets from 0-60 almost a second and a half quicker than my car, has some appeal. Heck, even the CVT of the new Accord even gets faster from 0-60.
Another point where clearly we'll need to agree to disagree is the idea that an EX Accord is "spartan."
Since the EX has a moonroof, pushbutton start, an exclusive Lanewatch side camera, 17" alloys with V rated tired, back up camera, smart phone integration, etc., etc. I'd hardly call it "spartan." Not even the LX, which is two steps down is really spartan in my book. I think the materials are very nice inside, except for the carpet, which I admit seems a bit rough. But I'm 49, and so I grew up with cars with manual steering, no ac, and sometimes without even a stereo until we put one in --lol!
But, anyway, I'm sure your Fusion will give you years of great service. Congratulations again on getting a great deal on a very fine car....+++
My point regarding 0-60 times is simple...its not a huge concern for me. My Accord was probably faster 0-60 than my new Fusion is...yet the Fusion handles nicer, has way more content, looks a whole lot better...If my Fusion is a second slower to 60 than the Accord (it is) I'm not concerned about it. Even when I get ready to pull the trigger on the Mustang in a few years, outright acceleration won't matter so much to me as long as it can move out of its way and is entertaining to drive. I buy midsize sedans for their room, comfort, content and serviceable reliability. 0-60 just isn't high on my list.
The EX's cloth interior, drab interior plastic colors, average interior materials (especially the Gray interior) and lack of XM give the car a spartan feel to me. This is the Accord Hybrid's interior which is the Equivalent to the EX sedan...
It's nicer than a Camry...but the Altima 2.5SV, Fusion SE, Optima EX and Sonata Sport models have nicer interiors at the "midlevel" point where the Accord is.
I'm not saying the content is "Spartan" not even a base model Civic is "spartan" per se anymore but the design just looks drab below the EX-L. The Sport looks nicer too because of the SI seats and red lighting.
I actually find the LX and Sport alloys to be nicer with their polished finish than the EX/EX-L/Touring wheels for the US market. The aren't terrible but they don't look like upgraded wheels over the lower trim levels.
My first accessory to my new Fusion will be illuminated kick plates...I'm ordering them later this month for my 29th birthday!
Naturally all black mode looks drab. But as I say it's very subjective. I have the EX-L and it's different from that.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
There are 26K Fusion SE models in dealer stock according to cars.com compared to 2300 S models and 4700 Titaniums. S models are for fleet and advertising purposes only. In 2013 you couldn't even get push button start on a SE model. At least they made it an available option (just not with the manual).
If they are just for advertising purposes and fleet only, what would my Fusion be, exactly? Since Ford only made about 2200 Fusion SE 6spd manuals for MY2013 and 2014 combined. The S is still the base model..and its not just for advertising and fleet... Golf Mill Ford (the dealership I bought my Fusion from) is supposedly the largest volume dealer in Chicago and in the Midwest...they've got 29 Fusion S models and only 13 Fusion Titaniums. Apparently somebody outside of your local rental agency is buying them.
Also, I used to be a truck driver, so anytime I traveled anywhere I'd always rent cars...everytime I was offered a Fusion or a Focus I was always offered the SE models. As a matter of fact, the last time I rented a Fusion I ended up with SE model loaded similarly to my own Fusion...but with automatic of course. The fleet Fusions I see on the streets are SE models as well. Ford also added the "S" Hybrid to the lineup for MY2014, right? I see quite a bit of those on the roads too. Not sure if those are fleet or just sales.
I don't believe half of what I read on Cars.com when it comes to actual inventory. When I was searching for a new Fusion a few months ago I looked up listing on Cars.com which said about 250 manual transmission Fusions were available across the country, by the time I weeded thru the listing only about 150 or so were acutally manuals...and of those that were actally manuals the listings were outdated and at least 20 of the cars were already sold.
Either way the Fusion is an excellent car, even without the push button start. I'll get my push button start in my Mustang in about four years.
Ford projects the S model at 10% of sales with virtually NO options. It's limited for a reason.
Also - I said fleet sales, not rental car sales. Governments buy a lot of base models with no options.
0-60 times are obviously important to a few people. But the vast, and I mean vast, majority of buyers of these cars don't know and don't care. They are all similar in HP, weigh about the same and can accelerate safely. Whether one car is 1 second faster to 60 than another is just not a factor. I look at the 0-60 times only to see if a car is abnormally slow or quick. Haven't ever found a big difference in the midsize arena with an I4 engine. Now if you really want to race, get a v6 or higher hp turbo but most people in this category are looking for MPG, not to be a boy racer. I think if it were that important to their customers the manufactures would be advertising it.
I know they do, but the vast majority of those "fleet" sales are still the SE models.
10 percent of 250000 is still 25000 a year....that's a pretty sizable number for a base model, I'd suppose.
Question...why do you even care? It's really not that serious LOL
Exactly...I was chatting with my aunt the other day about new cars...she's looking at the 2014 Impala or a slightly used Terrain...I asked her if the Impala was an I4, she swore I was asking if it was a 2014...when I explained to her if it was an I4 (4 cylinder engine) she thought it had something to do with the transmission...there are PLENTY of other people out there like her. LOL
I was only pointing out that the SE is still the volume model and as such they want customers to be able to choose whether they want push button start or not. They don't want to force buyers who don't want it to get a S model because that precludes all of the other options. It's just smart marketing to make it optional.
I have an '07 and a '13 and don't find the interior to be cheaper. There are a few minor things that are a little cheaper (sun visors, storage cubbys) but pretty much everything else is nicer. I considered the Fusion as it has a nice ride and handling, but it has some downsides as well. The base cloth is appalling, and the engines are rather weak with fairly poor real world mpg (the stick would certainly help alleviate these though). In CR tests the most efficient Fusion got worse mileage than the V-6 Accord - major fail for ecoboost in my book. To make matters worse the fastest ecoboost (2.0) is no faster than the base I4 Accord (0-60 in 6.6 seconds).
The Fusion does feel a little more planted than the Accord - wish the electric steering was a little heftier at highway speeds. Ironic since electric steering makes tuning the steering effort a piece of cake.
Maybe under some kind of ideal condition a 4cyl Accord can match a 2.0 ecoboost Fusion 0-60.
In the real world, not a chance. Top of the line Accord interior is very plain. If anyone watched the Fusion review I linked to a week or so ago, I agree with something the reviewer said. When you look at the Fusion, you can see every part of the car had some thought put into it. Just got back from a road trip and averaged 31 mpg. Pretty good, considering the pace, payload, and terrain. Unless I wanted to pass something, the engine made enough power so that the transmission rarely had to downshift going up any grade.
Real world is where it does it. Consumer reports acceleration tests are closer to the real world than any other magazine and they get the Fusion 2.0 at 7.4 seconds to 60. They got the CVT Accord at 7.7 seconds, but the Accord has a stick available (not so for the 2.0 Fusion) and can cut about another second. CR did not test the stick, but every mag that did got it about a second faster than the CVT. So really I undersold the Accord when I said it was as fast.
Mpg is the same story. The 1.5 liter with the 6 speed automatic gets 16 city 34 highway in CR's real world tests for 24 overall. On the exact same real world test the Accord was 21 city 40 highway 30 overall. That is a huge difference. Even the 3.5 V-6 Accord beat the 1.5 Fusion by getting 16 city 39 highway and 26 overall. Accord is not alone, the Altima and Mazda6 were better still for mpg at 31 overall.
Just not very impressed with the Ecoboost, but the best of the lot is certainly the 1.6 with the stick.
I realize my personal numbers are anecdotal, but I have been over 45 mpg on a 400 mile trip - using just over half a tank of gas. This is nice weather with no a/c on backroads - no high speed interstate cruising. 31 mpg would be all city driving for me. Never anywhere near that low on the highway.
I think the Fusion is a very nice vehicle with a good ride and handling, but the ecoboost engines offer no advantage over a well engineered naturally aspirated engine, and actually under perform in comparison.
@maxamillion85
Congrats on your stick shift fusion purchase. Seems like you are happy with your new rig. Enjoy!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I ordered a Lapis Blue/Ivory Legacy 2.5i Premium this afternoon. Dealer is going to get it for me via swap. I'll pick it up sometime next week. I'm really excited!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Ok. My Mother in law works at Rosenthal Nissan Mazda, a very well established chain of car dealerships . She does payroll for the whole company (1000 + employees). So, I am going over there today to take home a Mazda 6 for 24 hours. It is a Touring with the 19" wheels. It even has fog lights and leather heater seats. Not sure about the backup camera...but if it doesn't then it is a deal killer. I was told 24k was doable. Wish me luck. I just don't want my car for 5 more years. I am actually hoping they misquoted on a GT...which has all the goodies. I di not want the stop-start feature...so I am having it disabled. Also, I am tall and if it has a sunroof that rubs my head...then I need to get a 6 w/o one.
I am actually thinking about leasing..but it all depends on price.
Wish me luck.!!!!!
I like the Mzda 6 dash far better. All business, and I love the I-Drive style (ok...well ripped off from BMW) . I am going overto the Mazda store today to take one home for 24 hours...possibly lots longer. LOL. BTW, I like this dash far better.
Obviously I like the two black interior models. The stick would be great if I lived in a more rural or light suburban area...but alas I do not. So, the last picture is my choice. Black on black GT, and Judy said $25k is doable with my trade. So, They give me 16,600 for my car, netting. me. 3000 down (I owe $13,600 an d it is worth 16,680 avg trade.
So, Payment wise? Exactly the same. $450 and 2.9 %. _ am going ton argue about the rate. I want 1.9...but I am also thinking about going for 72 month financing, whjich will bring the payment down to 390. Not to shabby. I can't wait till they open!!!
Oh, Kirby, if I could get a Fusion SE 2.0 Ecoboost, backup camera, dual zone climate control, power drives seat AND at least a manual height and fore/aft adjustment on the passenger seat, plus heated seats......then I would certainly drive over to Ford and check one out.
CSKI
I wish you luck.. below is the break down of the i GT, model. This price is with no added options
2015 Mazda Mazda6
4dr Sdn Auto i Grand Touring
Invoice .............................................MSRP
Base Price $28,235.......................... $29,895
Destination $795................................... $795
Total Base Price $29,030.................... $30,690
Gt Technology Package
-inc: Mazda Radar Cruise Control (MRCC), Engine: SKYACTIV-G 2.5L DOHC I4 w/i-ELOOP, Variable Valve Timing (VVT), i-ELOOP Regenerative Braking System, Forward Obstruction Warning (FOW), Lane Departure Warning System (LDWS), High Beam Control System (HBC), Active Grille Shutters
Invoice price....................................... $1795
MSRP price......................................... $2080
Invoice price on the I touring model is 23,518 plus 795 dest/ charge = 24,313
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Here is the rest of the accessories you may add to the i GT model
Invoice..................................................................................... MSRP
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
NOT AVAILABLE with Clear Rear Bumper Top Paint Protection Film.
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
Car Cover Cable Lock
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
Clear Front Paint Protection Film
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
Clear Rear Bumper Top Paint Protection Film
NOT AVAILABLE with Rear Bumper Guard.
PRICE TO FOLLOW
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
Mazda Valve Stem Caps (Set Of 4)
-inc: Mazda logo
PRICE TO FOLLOW
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
PRICE TO FOLLOW
N/A N/A
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
If you go with I Touring model these are the only 2 big ticket items you could add to vehicle.
-inc: Bose 11-Speaker Sound System, Power Moonroof, 1-touch open and close and interior sunshade, SIRIUSXM Satellite Radio, 4-month trial subscription
Invoice price $1143......................... $1325 msrp price
-inc: Auto-Dimming Exterior Driver's Side Mirror, Auto-Dimming Rear View Mirror w/Homelink, Heated Exterior Side Mirrors, Auto On/Off Headlights, Rain-Sensing Windshield Wipers, Smart City Brake Support (SCBS), 6th Generation Navigation System, touch-screen and real-time traffic updates
Invoice price $1338.................................... $1550 MSRP
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
cski said:
"It even has fog lights and leather heater seats."
Doesn't the Touring model have the "pleather" seats vs. real leather? I actually like that model myself as it is hard to tell the difference between the fake and real leather in the Mazda and the price is very good for the equipment you get. Plus the fact that you don't have to have a sunroof which I've no use for. I wish they wouldn't package the Bose and the sunroof together though.
I don't care if it is pleather or leather. I want durable more than anything. Real leather would be nice though. I have a burn hole in the center of the drivers seat. It happened the 2nd week I had it. I didn't get it fixed because I am superstitious and something worse would have happened. Nothing in this life is perfect. Especially the handling on my Optima. I have not made it over to Mazda yet....stuck at the doctorrs office.
Anyway, will let you guys know the total breakdown on price and all the other things they try to get out of me...ad my wallet.
Good luck, cski! We look forward to lots of good photos.
We're just back from the Big Mouse Trip. The new Pathfinder was an excellent cruiser. 18 hours each way, we went straight through. Set the cruise on 78 for most of the way, which had it turning about 2200 rpm. AC blowing constantly, five people and our stuff, did about 22.5 overall. It's rated 26 highway, which I believe would be doable at lower speeds and/or cooler temps. But I was more interested in making time than saving the planet. The temp needle never rose above normal, even though we never stopped long enough to let the engine cool down. Gas and junk food, 15 minutes tops. Very smooth ride, supportive seats, firm enough steering that you don't have to make constant corrections or have a lot of play in the wheel as with ye olde Yukon. Great handling in the rain, very little hydroplaning. Plenty of passing power, it did not seemed burdened by the load at all. Two minor complaints: Cruise control tends to let you drop 3-4 mph before catching up again on hills. Also, the center screen at its dimmest setting is still a little too bright for my liking at night time. I rested my phone over it to reduce the glare (I have admittedly poor night vision anyway, and would have preferred less contrast, or a "screen off" option). Otherwise, an ideal road tripper.
Gave it a good hand wash and vacuum, now it's happy to sit in the garage and rest for a while.
To return to the topic of midsize sedans... as pleased as I was with the Pathfinder, it makes my Accord feel like a 'Vette by comparison. Driving to work and rowing my own again was a real pleasure.
Looks like a great car cski! And a big improvement from your already nice Optima.
How is the rear visibility in the 6?
@Dudleyr, To me, the real world is the world I experience, not just repeating something written by some other source, but everyone is different.
@cski
I'm sorry you aren't happy with your Optima, but glad you are doing something about it. Let us know what transpires. It is hard to go wrong with a Mazda 6. If I wasn't hellbent on having AWD, I would have looked Mazda's way in addition to the Legacy I'm picking up (hopefully) next week.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Driving the new Mazda 6 left me wanting for more power. The Accord 4 cyl with CVT felt more sprightly to me. The Mazda 6 needs a beefier engine option.
I say up the h/p making it a poor mans BMW alternative.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
My car is worth 16,800, and that is the real NADA trade, not all these other phony books. I owe $13,280
So, $26,460 - $3520 = 22,940. That is almost exactly what I paid for the Kia. Now I need to do some thinking, and some extremely aggressive driving in the Mazda 6. Don't worry though, they only had silver one the lot, so it is not my car I will be dogging.
The sales manager does not want the deal....he called it "insider information that puts the dealer at a disadvantage". Well, too effin bad. You don't feel bad when you sell a customer a "full boat" of credit insurance". So, I will only deal with the Gen Manager.
So, Rosenthal Mazda, the game is on. Are you all men enough to take a low profit deal, or will you wuss out because the deal is not enough in your favor. I truly am curious what their reaction will be. So far, I think I will be buying at Browns Nissan Mazda. At least they didn't attempt to BS me, and Fairfax Kia is right across the street. They would LOVE to steal a sale from Fairfax Kia.
Ok, so, enough outta me. Wish me luck. I really am nice, but I have to put on my game face for these bozos.
I think the BMW 3 series 335i M-SPORT Is an extremely capable and refined automobile. BUT GUESS WHAT??? 10 car mags said the exact same thing; If not more. So, just reiterating a common sentiment id not PLAGIARISM. It's a good car, and almost everyone agrees.
You wanna know what a really bad car is? A Lada (or Fiat 124) and also in contention is the Trabant, the Morris Minor, and my personal dreadful first car, the Fiat Strada. It had heat. Too much heat in fact. In the summer, at stoplights, I had to get out, pop the hood, and twist the wires together for the fan to cool the radiator. I had a cassette deck in it. It only fast forwarded. You had to eject and flip the tape over to rewind it. Also, I put 6x9 speakers in shoe boxes so the stereo would sound loud enough.
Also, the window cranks broke off with the windows down. So, I took my 4-10 out in a field and shot holes in the floor so the water would drain.
So, grow up
I don't see anything wrong with my post. I was pointing out that I prefer people's real experiences, rather than just repeating something in a magazine.
I could have written that the post was somewhat disingenuous, in that it left out that the car being cited had to have the clutch replaced @30k, and the rotors resurfaced every 10k. In reality, you can't even do that with the rotors (shave them 3 times). The dealer probably just replaced then each time because the car was a car mag long termer and wrote it up as a rotor resurface.
Under other circumstances, I'd enjoy swapping crappy cars we owned stories, but not at this time.
I'll definitely give this (and the few other boards I frequent) a detailed write up and share my ownership experience. Since 2002, I've only purchased Hondas (2001 Prelude, 2010 TSX, 2011 Pilot) and BMWs (2007 X3, 1990 E30 325i, 2011 328xi). I'm very excited!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Still not bad for a V-6 with almost 280 h/p. The new 2013 Accord model was fast, quite inside the cabin, both the a/c and heater units were a lot quieter than previous model years . Exceptional mpg for both 4 -6 cyl. models. Comfortable front and back seats. Huge trunk. I still think the Accord is the best choice over the Ford, Mazda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, and Toyota..
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Well, you just saved a lot of money.
Would you consider a Honda Accord Sport? Much better visibility, and acceleration that's should be at least on par with your Optima.
Some people down the street us from just got a black Accord Sport day before yesterday. That is one sharp looking car, I have to say. The dual exhausts, large wheels, nice alloys, and spoiler lend it an upscale and yet racy look at the same time. They traded in their Acura, and yet this one looks if anything even better in their driveway. Looks more expensive than the price imho. I think some people were getting 2014 Sport CVTs for as low as c. 21k + TTL. But that was during the blow-out last month. Prices are probably a bit higher now.
of course, up to you to keep/buy whatever you like best. just trying to get the empirical data on this question!
Our very own edmunds reported this for the 2012 model: In performance testing, a loaded Optima EX in SULEV form went from zero to 60 mph in 8.9 seconds
For the 2015 6: In Edmunds testing, an automatic-equipped Mazda 6 sprinted to 60 mph in 7.6 seconds, which is a quick time for a midsize sedan with a base four-cylinder engine
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
zeroto60times.com/
and yes, I think that many cars feel quicker or slower than they really are. Plus, 0-60 is kind of meaningless, in that few people ever do that (and not a "drag race" start like magazines tend to do). 30-70, etc. are much more real world IMO.
but, I have always thought from what I read that the 6 was reasonably spritely, certainly for a mid size, base engine sedan. Runs with the Accord too. Is it the fastest? maybe not. Is it dangerously slow? I certainly doubt it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.