Midsize Sedans 2.0

wayne21

Maybe those honda people should focus on the years of transmission problems in hondas (handled by class action lawsuits) or the VCM problems of the new hondas or the brake problems of the new hondas before they start trashing hyundai.

benjaminh

Sure, Honda has had its share of problems too--even Honda fans like me admit that.

And I don't think they are trashing Hyundai, they are just showing that there are trade-offs with DI engines. When you first look at it on paper DI sounds like a win-win--more power and more mpg. But if you think about possible maintenance issues 6-10 years down the line, and nvh issues now, it clearly is a trade off.

Some of the vtec people say that Honda may go to DI as well in a couple of years...But then again they might not.

jeffyscott

If it is true that this engine design is prone to sludge, perhaps Hyundai will specify synthetic oil?

dudleyr

They said the same thing about fuel injection. VW had it on the rabbit in 1976 and Honda did not start using it until the 80's and even then only on some models.

I am impressed with the Sonata. I drive an Accord now and like it very much, but it is not perfect. The seats are not very comfortable and to get lumbar support I need leather and to get leather I need a sunroof which means no headroom. If Hyundai actually has availability of the stick (unlike Toyota and their vaporware) I would take a hard look at one in a few years when I am ready to get a new vehicle. I am very impressed with the mpg.

Now if Honda brought over their 4-cyl diesel that would be the end of the story, but they are reluctant. Seems like they want to concentrate on big heavy inefficient vehicles right now like their guzzling crossover. Nice to see Hyundai thinking outside of the box.

m6user

Ward's best ten engines list just came out. No Honda engine made the list but a Hyundai engine did. Not a DI engine mind you or that Ward's is the end all of "best engine" lists but it is a highly respected source.

I think Hyundai is going to have a winner in this new Sonata. They have been bashed for copying designs(and boring designs), using old technology, transmissions a notch behind the leaders, not having cutting edge tech inside, interior quality finishes, suspension issues, etc. Don't know about the suspension but they seem to have addressed all the other issues just mentioned in this new version.

As far as design goes the Lexus ES350 is hardly called a wild design or too far out. If anything it is usually referred to as less than daring but that is probably the car that the new Sonata reminds me of from a lot of different angles. The only thing that I see that is a little overboard is the hood creases. Camry isn't exactly beautiful from the front and Accord is downright ugly from the rear. I think the Mazda6 may be a little gaudy with the bulged out wheel wells for a lot of people's preference. I have an'07 Mazda6(which has been trouble free for 38,000 miles) and like the new version but the interior was just not upgraded enough to get me excited about it.

explorerx4

considering hyundai has a 10 year warranty, it kind of seems like sour grapes from the other guys.
plus like many other things there have been advancements since someone first took a chance on the technology.

benjaminh

yes, explorer--this is the part I can't figure out. Hyundai must figure that this direct engines are reliable over the long haul--because otherwise they're likely to pay dearly not just in reputation but in terms of warranty costs. If a large number of these engines are going to be gunked 5-10 years from now, it would cost them a fortune to fix.

I assume the Hyundai engineers have sat down with Hyundai accountants and execs and looked at it and decided it was going to work...

But other car companies (VW, anyone) have also had faith that things would all work out, and sometimes they just did not.

My sour grapes against VW (had a jetta that was a nightmare) is that I trust Hyundai a lot more than I would trust VW.

Hyundai probably has a big winner on its hands. I think the 2011 Sonata looks like a great car. But would I buy one? I've had such great experiences with my Hondas that I probably wouldn't....But I still think that Sonata looks great.

explorerx4

there are LOTS of DI engines that going to be introduced or have been in the last 2 years or so.

lilengineerboy

there are LOTS of DI engines that going to be introduced or have been in the last 2 years or so.

Including the Ford EcoBoost engine, which is also on the Ward's 10 best list.

akirby

Most modern engines can easily go 150,000 miles with proper care. And don't forget that Hyundai's 10 yr warranty only applies to the original owner so that reduces their liability.

iluvmysephia1

I guess VW has built quite a few DI engines, and some of them are having issues. Don't know if Hyundai has some magic fix for things that may be hard engineering challenges to overcome.

Do we get some of the lowest-quality VW offerings here in the U.S.? How is it that VW is leading the world in automotive sales when all I hear is that they're horrible with electrical gremlins, these DI VW motors are gunking up too early, etc?

I'll continue to stay far away from their vehicles, for now anyway. You see, I learned to drive stick in my Dad's 4-speed '66 VW Fastback. That was a great car to learn stick in, easy to steer and handle, too. Light in weight, and actually the car accelerated pretty quickly.

benjaminh

Yeah--I learned to drive stick in a VW too--a VW Bus. If you could drive and shift that, you could drive and shift almost anything.

I forgot that the Hyundai 10 warranty wasn't transferable. And since many people only keep a car for 3-7 years, and since the DI problems are more likely to crop up in years 7-10, that does limit some of their liability...

Still the new Sonata does look good in pix and on paper...

8babies1dog

It's hard to understand how Hyundai after spending hundreds of millions
of dollars to develop "what I think" is 2 of the best and most efficient
car engines in years, will stop putting them in the car they were
actually built for, such as soupping up the 3.3l V6 to make the new
SE "more sporty". Personally that is the main reason I bought the 2009
SE w/ the V6, it has more than I expected and then some. The only thing
I might add would be a trunk key hole, so I am happy I did opt for this
car. After buying 23 vehicles including this 1 in the past 45 years so far
it has been the best. The technology in this thing is amazing to say the
least. The old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it"!!!! IMHO
Good luck to the people that are waiting for the 2011.

explorerx4

it's getting to be about how high is your mileage rating?
the 4 cyl should be plenty powerful enough for most buyers.

m6user

How did they soup up the 3.3L just for the SE to make if more sporty? What is the other engine you are talking about? I also wonder what specific amazing technology the Sonata has that other carmakers don't have? I agree that the Sonata SE w/ the V6 is a very nice car with guts but I think the only real mechanical differences between the SE and the Limited, or for that matter the GLS, is the suspension/tires along with a couple of cosmetics. The V6 is the same for all three cars I believe.

m6user

Exactly. 9 out ten Sonatas are I4 now and will be 100%. Hyundai has went on record that they intend to be the mpg champ. By only selling I4s in their bread and butter car it will raise their corporate average nicely.

8babies1dog

I'm glad you asked those questions, I will try to use some of the same wording
that I read while doing research on the Sonata. For the 2009 Sonata SE it was
in the plans by Hyundai to develop a high performance engine in attempts to
make the SE a little more sporty to compete with cars like the new Mazda6
and Fusion and Malibu etc. (if that was accomplished or not is an opinion thing).
It is not and I don't think it has ever been advertised as a sports car. And how
they "souped it up" was increasing the horsepower and torque and opening up
the power curve. This was done by adding C.V.V.T to both camshafts and add
VIS to the induction system, the engine is built out of aluminium which also helps
performance. This upped the HP from 234 to 249 and increased the torque also.
All this was done and the MPG rating actually went up. Hyundai USA's engineers
and builds their own engines in the plant in Alabama. The other engine is the
I4 2.4L that is used in the Sonata, its HP also went up.

The Se has a different suspension as you said, it also comes with a larger
breaking system than the others. The engine is mounted on hydrolic motor
mounts. All this was done by Hyundai alone, this V6 drive trane is getting
a lot of attention by other car makers, very good MPG's and dependable also.
To me that is pretty amazing technology.

8babies1dog

I would like to add, I don't see that I wrote that the (new f/ 2009) V6 was only
to be used in the SE, sorry if you misunderstood it. I did not post the comment
to knock the Limited or the GLS, I would be shooting myself in the foot sort of
speak. They are basically the same car but the trim levels are not the same, the
GLS has a few options that can be added, same goes f/ the SE and the Limited,
but some options are not available on all trims. There are items for the SE that
are for the SE only can't even be ordered for the Limited or the GLS. (maybe
some after market), such as the fore mentioned suspension and breaks. Will
that make it special? it is called a SE I think means (special edition) but again
that could be subjective. How will this fare with the rest of the US cars, who cares
other than the buyer, like me. Do I think it,s special? absolutely IMO, I have owned
many fine autos including other brand HIGH performance models and this holds
it's own, actually I consider better! It has the smallest liter engine (3.3) than the
others I've had such as (GM's) 3.8l turbo charged Bonneville's SSEI that was on
the market about 15 years that was a nice car but had issues.

How well will the 2011 go over here in the US market remains to be seen. We will
see soon enough.

Happy holidays to all !!!!!

m6user

Thanks for the detail. I think SE stands for "Sport Edition" rather than "special". You said that Hyundai developed the engine to make the SE more sporty but isn't it the same engine(hp/torque) that is used in the GLS and Limited? I think they did other things like you mentioned suspension and tires, cosmetics(I don't believe the brakes are different) to make the SE sporty but not necessarily the engine because, correct me if I'm wrong, don't they also sell the SE in I4 version?

such as soupping up the 3.3l V6 to make the new
SE "more sporty".

The above is where I got the idea that you meant they souped it up specifically for the SE. Maybe that's not what you meant.

8babies1dog

Appreciate the reply, "Sports Edition" sounds even better! thanks. The V6 and
the I4 come in all three trims, thats very good Hyundai USA can concentrate their
efforts on only these 2 engines for the Sonata. Go to google and type in (2009
Sonata SE v6 specs and reviews) it will provide all the info about what was done
to the "new version 2009 SE) well over 1000 parts were changed from the
previous 2008 model including the bigger break system and suspension. (I
found it very interesting). That made me go for the SE over the other 2 trims
and buy a Sonata in general. Whatever the reason the new engines were built
it added a good dimension to an already good drive trane.

Some times my thoughts are not conveyed perfectly. It's a pleasure exchanging
info with people that share the same interests. Have a good one!!

xmech

I very nearly got a Sonata SE a few months ago. Very nice, plenty of power WITH decent MPG for the power, and lots of goodies. But, my wife has an 05 Tucson she got new. We've been using it for our highway trips, and it really is noisy on the highway, so the last time I test drove a Sonata, I paid attention to that and put away my 'new car ooh-aah' attitude, and realized it was also very noisy, and I couldn't stand how the transmission shifted. I wound up getting something else, which I won't even mention as I'm not trying to start a 'my car is better than yours' thing. Just giving my observations, and saying I was really disappointed about those couple of things that kept me away from it. I think almost every car has things you wind up living with, no car can be perfect for everyone, but the noise and transmission were too much for me. Other than that, they really hit the mark. Hopefully, the 2011 will correct those last few items, though it's too late for me. It'll be 10 years (hopefully) before I'm in the market again.

acdii

With any luck Hyundai will do to the Sonata what they did to the Veracruz and sound deaden it. My Veracruz is very quiet on the highway, the engine is so quiet that when parked I have to double check the tach to make sure it is still running. Sometimes when I start it, I don't hold it long enough, so it doesn't start, I don't know until I put it in gear and I don't move, then I realize it didn't start. Hyundai still needs to work a bit more on the suspension noise though.

8babies1dog

I guess I should feel very lucky about the one we have, it is extremely quite,
the only unusual noise I can hear is those 17" Kumho high performance tires
hitting the stripes on the pavement. The V6 makes a little groan when you
push it, but it sounds good to me "HP at work". My wife looks at me kind of
funny after it happens she says "that don't happen when I drive it", whats
wrong with it, I just say you can hear it better on the passenger side!

I have no problem with anyone comparing their car to what I have, it is kind
of an opinion thing anyway. I really don't have a problem with any of the
cars in this class, I would buy anyone at a given point, what the cleancher
deal for me was the rebates at the time were very good and we cut a real
deal and of course the warranty and the car itself struck my fancy.

alicebettyanna

I'm replacing a 2000 Honda SE with 86k on it. The trans is dying and I don't want to replace. I've narrowed it down to 2 choices, both with V6:

Nissan Altima 3.5 SR with all the bells and whistles OR
Chevrolet Malibu LTZ

I just can't decide. I like them both and there isn't much price difference. I tend to keep my cars for ten years.

The Nissan is sportier but I am impressed with the Chevy.

Chevy dealer is 20 miles, Nissan is 45 miles away from home.

thegraduate

Well, if you like both vehicles, start looking at secondary things about the cars:

Do you want a Navigation System? The Malibu doesn't offer a Navigation Screen, instead relying on On-Star subscriptions.

How does fuel expense compare? Doesn't the Altima 3.5L require premium? The Malibu doesn't have the best EPA ratings thanks to being a heavy car, either.

How much will these vehicles cost to insure?

The Malibu felt snug to me (I'm 6'5" though), and was disappointing to me that it didn't offer a rear armrest in the top model, something my very basic 14 year old Accord offers.

How do you like the interior storage space? Can you find buttons, cubbies, and cupholders well at night? How about headlight performance at night?

I know these are all really nit-picky questions, but asking yourself these now may save you from wishing you'd picked "the other car" down the road. I personally like them both, but in the end (to me) the Altima is too pricey and the Malibu too small, so I'd pick neither.

backy

The distance to the dealer could be significant, if you plan to live where you do now for a long time, given how long you own a car. Although if you have a good mechanic near you, that can be less of a problem once the warranty expires.

You really should be able to get a great deal on the Malibu right now. Also, Chevy is offering (I think) their 60-day test drive, so if it turns out you don't like the Malibu after living with it for awhile, you could return it. Not so with the Altima.

acdii

PST Fusion

'nough said

alicebettyanna

Thanks for replying. For some reason, the Chevy is slightly more to insure. I like the nav. system, not on Chevy but the Onstar would be good too. We drove the Taurus and were very impressed but it's just too big for me, and there is a blind spot issue. It is sweet thoug . As for the highly rated Fushion, it's gorgeous but just didn't fit me right. At 5: 5", I was hitting my head getting in and at 6'1", my husband's head was right at the ceiling.
Yes, the Altima does require premium but that isn't a deal breaker for me.

Being in the midwest, I really would like to support Ford or GM. I think I would be happy with either. I tend to buy new and keep for 10 years. I'm kind of irrated with Honda that their trans. died with such low mileage. I think HOnda's are usually reliable but boring.

m6user

The Altima has a CVT transmission that I have read has some issues with the power and torque of the V6. If it does break it appears it is replaced ...not fixed, read $xpensive. If you are keeping it long term that may be a very big aspect especially since you don't like tranny problems.

You sound like you like bells and whistles, power and sportiness, that sounds like a Mazda6. It is very comparable to the Altima in handling, has a big cabin, great power and pretty nice styling. It has some options not even offered on some other midsizers that may interest you as well. I'd take a look.

I have an '07 Mazda6 that has almost 40k miles and has not been back to the dealer except for a tailpipe hanger adjustment during it's first oil change.

akirby

As for the highly rated Fushion, it's gorgeous but just didn't fit me right. At 5: 5", I was hitting my head getting in and at 6'1", my husband's head was right at the ceiling.

I'm 5'11" and even with a sunroof my head doesn't come near the headliner. Maybe you just needed to lower the seat?