Midsize Sedans 2.0

berri

It has probably been up for sale for awhile. Wouldn't be surprised if one of the Chinese manufacturers ends up picking it up cheap. Ram Jeep only may look good right now, but dangerous when oil goes back up. I'm guessing it all gets sold down the road. If the Chinese want market penetration here they almost have to have facilities in North America due to currency, market knowledge and logistics.

brian125

What's left in the Chrysler line T&C , 200 , 300 , Is the Sebring still being Made?

berri

FCA has a lot riding on the new Pacifica. Wonder how and how quickly Honda and Toyota respond.

brian125

I see more 200's around the NYC area then mazda6's. Maybe Dodge will buy the Jeep brand and continue its terrible reliability record.

brian125

New Pacifica is a winner for Chrysler.

sda

I read where the production of the 200 ends this December. They are good looking cars. Too bad it is hobbled by a poor transmission and lack of back seat room. Mid size sales are really feeling the pinch. I wonder if the Regal will be updated or if it will hit the end of the line.

Mr_Shiftright

FCA is slashing Fiat 500 prices for 2017, (pretty big slash, too) trying to save slipping sales on that side as well.

I have no idea if Chrysler will be totally out of the passenger car business or not in the near future.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

FCA is slashing Fiat 500 prices for 2017, (pretty big slash, too) trying to save slipping sales on that side as well.

I have no idea if Chrysler will be totally out of the passenger car business or not in the near future.

I honestly can't see how they will keep on going and going. They've pretty much wiped out their customer base. Whoever buys Chrysler will go on the boycott list for many former burned customers, including me.

How could Daimler have been so dumb?

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

The Dodge Dart officially dies this month.

The Short Unhappy Life of the Dodge Dart

Good Riddens!

andres3

Oh, and tell Jessica Caldwell at Edmunds she's full of BS.

“People don’t have a history of going to Dodge dealerships for small cars,” Edmunds senior analyst Jessica Caldwell says. “The Dart had no built-in customer base.”

There's plenty of history, unfortunately that history is negative and impacts future sales negatively. I suppose the no built-in customer base portion is true.

brian125

Un educated buyers / buyers looking to save a good buck will buy a bad rated unreliably Dodge or Chrysler vehicle . Why else would you buy one ? I remember my Dodge minivan in the early 80's it rode pretty good , but it rattled, squeaked , had a leaking Trans at 30k. A/c compressor went , window motor , alternator, rear defrost broke and the list went on.

berri

Dodge Darts were pretty good compacts back in the 60's and 70's

suydam

A very long time ago.

berri

I Know

brian125

Was the 72, 73 Plymouth Scamp a off shoot of the Duster or Dart ? The Scamp was a bust

stickguy

Scamp, duster, dart, valiant, demon were all the same basic car, in a few body styles over 2 brands. There may have been a few more badge engineered names I'm forgetting.

Mr_Shiftright

And they were called "compacts" back then. Now they'd be full-size.

suydam

Back in college days we had a Dart and a friend had a Duster. They seemed really different to me. Wasn't the back end of the Duster sloped back more?

stickguy

Yeah, the duster was a curvy fastback. The dart was an angular 2 door sedan. Same car underneath and basically B pillar forward.

brian125

Cars back in the day were great you could bounce off poles and other cars and come away with a scratch or small dent. Now the front and back crumble in the smallest of accidents.

suydam

Yeah, but the human occupants didn't fare as well.

andres3

Maybe this is off-topic, but I wanted to bring up CA's new law about keeping your child rear-facing in a car seat until they are at least 2, and longer is recommended.

Saw the lobbyists claimed rear-facing to be UP TO 5X safer for the babies, but when I dug deeper those statistics seemed misleading at best.

Best I can tell, if you are rear-ended, which happens to good drivers more often I think, you are better off having them front-facing. If you tend to crash into things from your front (bad driver aka you rear-end stuff), then having them rear facing makes sense. Of course, as my S4 accident shows, you can have a frontal accident and not be at fault too.

Why a side impact collision would be different I can't figure out; other than you probably have forward momentum so rear-facing wins.

[Deleted User]

suydam said:

cski said:

ab348 said:

Yeah, Ford did what domestic automakers always did back then. They cheapened up the top-line model and created a new one, in this case the LTD Brougham, above it with pretty much the same level of trim the older model used to have. By '72 or so the regular LTD interior looked like a Galaxie of 5 years earlier.

A friend of mine who failed english in 10th grade (how do you fail ENGLISH??? You SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!) had a Cadillac Deville Brougham. He pronounced it his Devil Bro-Ham. He really thought it was pronounced that way; and we wonder why the Chinese are catching up dangerously close.(later it was found that my buddy ad a severe hearing problem).
OFF TOPIC: Did you guys hear about the Chinese Imaging Physicist and Specialist that just took off to China after working for NASA out of the University of Ohio and having full access to all our restricted technology???? His wife tried to clean out his office, left untouched (he was under investigation says NASA...But what else would they say? Were idiots?). now China has announced a Rover mission to Mars on the exact same time Window in 2020. She tried to take all his hard drives, thumb drives, phone, etc, but all he needed was in his head. He sent NASA a short E-Mail saying he needed a leave of absence to look after his aging parents. Then 6 days later resigned. Turns out he was on the board of directors at firm in China. The whole thing is [non-permissible content removed]!

That turned out to be a false charge. See this article in the NY Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/us/politics/us-drops-charges-that-professor-shared-technology-with-china.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

I am very grateful that he apparently didn't cross the line. Still, his imaging software IS driving around on Mars right now on MSL Curiosity. Then China announces it is planning a rover mission, with NO LANDING IMAGING satellite...like the Mars MRO and the LRO, who both use his software. He IS on the board pf directors in CHina at a prestigious engineering school. Have we considered the embarrassment that Homeland Security, Ohio State, and the Feds are enduring?? Maybe trying to play down this blunder? This man is brilliant. I don't think he makes hand warmers. We BUY THOSE FROM CHINA on Ebay!! LOL. Thanks for the counter - view. Sorry if it is off topic but China has been doing some aggressive things lately. For example. They have 90% of an F-117 stealth fighter. The cockpit was destroyed. Just to give the doubters something to think about...we tried to ping it from orbit..no image return. That means it is a real 117, and I think it was shot down in Iraq or Afghanistan and purchased by China., and the only fairly modern stealth aircraft we have ever had shot down.I am happy it is not a F-35 or F-22. The latest news is that China lied about launching a "weather and global warming/gassing satellite." It was launched to 18,000 miles. That puts it right in range of all our GPS and top end IMAGING Satellites. If it was for weather and whatnot, it would be around 400 to 500 miles. The conclusions are up to you.

I can't help but mention that the Soviets in 1984 went on world tour with their top end Satellites, and they were so excited they brought the real thing, not mock ups (oops) the CIA..scared at how behind the USA was in 1961, paid off the Soviet driver, used a CIA driver instead along with a tech crew, and took it completely apart and photographed it in DETAIL, We barely got it back together. The USSR did not find out about the espionage until they got home a year later and discovered screws we had been filed down, desperate to get it back together before another security check.By then, they didn't even know wht country had done it, or where. So, we have done the same thing we are accusing China of. Within 11 months, Alan Shepard was in orbit and we caught up quickly. Coincidence? Who knows. We just needed to know how to build a reliable space vehicle so we stole USSR's.

Ok, still loving thee car. I took out the HID "Style" headlights (way too dim) and replaced with PIAA $80 4000k super BRIGHT (and still mostly white) headlights. 5 star awesome. I am going to try 80 watt LED fog lights when it cools off here in VA to 73 for a high and no humidity Sunday and then check the brightness carefully. -Chris.

[Deleted User]

I have to rotate the tires anyway, so while it is up on the rack I can pull the 2 crappy plastic wing-style screws out on each side holding the fog light access panel closed, and just plug in the LEDS. Has anyone done this before and been very disappointed? All pros and cons welcome, as well as cracks on being a boy racer and seriously contemplating my manhood.

brian125

Any news on when the 17 Optima's are hitting dealerships ?

andres3

brian125 said:

Any news on when the 17 Optima's are hitting dealerships ?

I was told not until January, but then again they were using that as an argument that my '16 wasn't a "leftover" as I put it.

[Deleted User]

andres3 said:

brian125 said:

Any news on when the 17 Optima's are hitting dealerships ?

I was told not until January, but then again they were using that as an argument that my '16 wasn't a "leftover" as I put it.

I hope they restyle it. I never liked the 15-16 taillights...looked like they were too big for the slot and bulbous.Ruined the lines. I guess I like more understated styling or it's just personal preference. They nixed 1 tailpipe on a couple of late model Optima's too. If you look at the Sonata (which the Optima is based on) you will be hard pressed to find a dual exhaust model, and exactly opposite on the Optima. even the most bare bones base LX had dual pipes. I dug that about them.

Ok I am instaling my stage 2 80 watt LED fog lights on Sunday when it cools off (substantially for Northern VA) I was told that these chrome surrounds help spread the light. Here are the picks as I have already installed those. I have to jack up the car to put the fog bulbs in. There is no wiring change, just lug and play.

[Deleted User]

What do you guys think about the all new Malibu? (Which I am sure will sare it's platform with other GM models). I think it is beautiful, and very much reminds me of the Audi A7 from some angles. Long and lithe, with a nice looking infotainment system it certainly got my attention.

I also like the restyling of the Nissan lineup. (Especially the Maxima) but the new Altima body looks good too. My Mother in Law does payroll for a large regional group of dealerships, with her office in a Nissan/Mazda store. She bought a new top end Murano in a kind of white/two tone color and I really like it. I wish they would ditch the CVT and offer real 4x4...but there is really no need for a genuine transfer case and physical locking diffs in VA/DC/MD. The AWD will work just fine. It is a good looking Crossover in every way now. I did not like the grill/front end before.

stickguy

Looks nice outside, but just like an impala. Have not experienced the interior, but I believe it has lousy visibility. Too big for my taste though seems to be a real nice car

ab348

cski said:

What do you guys think about the all new Malibu? (Which I am sure will sare it's platform with other GM models). I think it is beautiful, and very much reminds me of the Audi A7 from some angles. Long and lithe, with a nice looking infotainment system it certainly got my attention.

I had one for a loaner about 6 months ago. I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. It drove OK, probably could use a bit more power but it was adequate, and seemed to have a lot of room inside. But I did not like the interior. Cloth seat fabric on the dash is a dumb idea that Chevy needs to ditch. The black LT model interior was very gloomy and did not feel very posh. Not a car I would consider, at least in that trim. Maybe the top-line model with the bigger engine and leather inside would be better.

imidazol97

Malibu:
The cloth is on the dash on the low models without leather seats. When seats are leather, the areas on the dash are a soft touch plastic--nice.

I thought the cloth to which poster referred was a crossweave like the Cruze's have, and I think it's really nice. Instead the cloth is a match to the center panels and the pattern on the regular seats. Salesman said it was carbon fiber pattern...?

The interior is about the same as Optima, Sonatas, and the Honda Sport I was in at a classic car show last Sunday. Black. Dark. I like my tan with cocoa brown trim parts. Seats are light in color.

Sat in the 17 Cruze hatchback they had on the floor in white. Lots of leg room in the rear for those who want more than the Optima, Sonata, and even 17 Malibu have to give. These have lots of room. Don't know if they're midsize.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

Malibu:
The cloth is on the dash on the low models without leather seats. When seats are leather, the areas on the dash are a soft touch plastic--nice.

I thought the cloth to which poster referred was a crossweave like the Cruze's have, and I think it's really nice. Instead the cloth is a match to the center panels and the pattern on the regular seats. Salesman said it was carbon fiber pattern...?

The one I had was an LT trim level which I suspect is their bread & butter model, certainly not the bottom of the line. Most Malibus will be sold with cloth seats. So here is what mine looked like:




In the interior shot you see the fabric on the door panels/armrests, and that is also it on the darker areas on both sides of the dash. It even surrounds the pushbutton start, so it is almost guaranteed to fray over time as fingernails graze it. As to whether it looks anything like carbon fiber, I leave that to you. It certainly didn't cross my mind.

imidazol97

I'd buy the leather option and look at the LT2 and LTZ equivalent models now, whatever name they give on the sticker.

I took a closer look at the cloth in my 08 Cobalt. It has not snagged or stained beyond easy removal. The cloth feels a lot the same as the Malibu. Probably very durable. The pattern may even be derivative. It's just not what I would pick. I'd want a light color and I'd want a leather. Period.

For most people, they wouldn't see the pattern in the cloth after the 2nd day they owned it.

Sandman6472

Saw a new Cruze hatch in person, an LT model. Very very nice with 16" rims but would go fot the LTZ model if I did purchase or lease. A good looking vehicle that I would seriously consider if I didn't like my VW Golf so much. Hopefully we'll get some at Hertz soon so I can drive one. Good job GM and probably one of the only domestics I would look at if in the market...and I've only driven foreign since 1977!

The Sandman

andres3

imidazol97 said:

Malibu:
The cloth is on the dash on the low models without leather seats. When seats are leather, the areas on the dash are a soft touch plastic--nice.

I thought the cloth to which poster referred was a crossweave like the Cruze's have, and I think it's really nice. Instead the cloth is a match to the center panels and the pattern on the regular seats. Salesman said it was carbon fiber pattern...?

The interior is about the same as Optima, Sonatas, and the Honda Sport I was in at a classic car show last Sunday. Black. Dark. I like my tan with cocoa brown trim parts. Seats are light in color.

Sat in the 17 Cruze hatchback they had on the floor in white. Lots of leg room in the rear for those who want more than the Optima, Sonata, and even 17 Malibu have to give. These have lots of room. Don't know if they're midsize.

The '16 Optima has tons of rear leg room. Not sure I'd ever want something with more rear leg room unless I was opening a Limo business.

The Optima could be wider though; still a tight fit for 3 Americans across the back seat, but leg room is a non-issue even with a 6'3 person sitting behind a 6'3 person.

Only averaged 26.5 MPG the last tank according to the computer. Hmmmm..... Not bad, but could be better if the EPA numbers are to be believed. I have a heavy right foot, but not that heavy.

brian125

The Cruze hatch has 1/2 inch more back leg rm (36.1) than Optima. but Optima beats Cruze in bk Hip / and rear shoulder by 5' and 3'. Its a good showing for the Cruze going up against one of the bigger midsize vehicles in its class.

The Optima is bigger by 3 inches in Ft leg (45.5 ) hip rm (56 ) Rear hd same at (37.8 ) FT head goes to optima at 39.8 to 38.9.

The 17 Sonata is a tad bigger in Ft Hd / rear rm , and shoulder than 16 optima .

Cruze hatch has 1/2 ' advantage on Sonata's back leg rm also. Cruze hatch 1.4 t gets 29/ 38 mpg's

Cruze looks like a good vehicle while under warranty

benjaminh

Midsize sales for Sept:

Camry 30,707

Accord 27,204

Altima 25,031

Malibu 21,521

Fusion 20,570

Sonata 15,437

Optima 9,010

Passat 6,335

Legacy 6,027

6 4052

200 3,185

andres3

Are all those Altima sales to fleet?

Michaell

andres3 said:

Are all those Altima sales to fleet?

All? Not likely. Nissan has been putting some large incentives on the Altima to move inventory.

It's a competent vehicle offered at a good price.

suydam

Altima is a pretty good car. We shopped it along with the Accord back in 2013. I see a lot of them on the roads, both here in SoCal and in Ohio.

Mr_Shiftright

I also like the Altima "for what it is". It's generally user friendly, too. I'd call it a "value purchase".

stever

A reporter is working on a story about buggy infotainment systems and is looking to speak with car owners who've had issues with their systems. If you'd like to share your experience, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than Monday, October 10, 2016.

iluvmysephia1

I'm such a "cheapskate," I'd pick the Nissan Versa S sedan out of all the Nissan lineup. And feel just fine about it, too. I'd insist on the 5-speed stick Versa sedan, though, of course!

suydam

I really liked the Versa Note, but no rear cross traffic alert. Deal breaker for me.

ab348

The Versa Note doesn't need cross-traffic alert. It is a disposable car, so you just let them run into you and let insurance get you a new one.

suydam

It's backing into little kids at the crowded mall I worry about. Have come to love that feature on our Encore.

iluvmysephia1

It's backing into little kids at the crowded mall I worry about. Have come to love that feature on our Encore.

Hey, brings up a question. Anyone know if the Nissan Versa sedan has a backup camera? Bet it doesn't. :@

stever

Optional on the 2016s it seems (and not available on the manual transmission). I think 2018 is the deadline for all new cars to have them standard.

iluvmysephia1

I think 2018 is the deadline for all new cars to have them standard.

Ahh, then that 2018 Kia Rio re-design will for sure have a backup camera, to seque away from the Nissan Versa sedan. Lower-end '18 Kia Rio's offer a 5-speed stick and upper-end models offer a DSG-type auto and a 6-speed stick. The new 2018 Kia Rio looks very cool. We just passed 73,500 miles on our 2011 Kia Soul that had 35,800 miles on it when we bought it. If and when I feel like shopping again the new Rio looks great.

[Deleted User]

ab348 said:

cski said:

What do you guys think about the all new Malibu? (Which I am sure will sare it's platform with other GM models). I think it is beautiful, and very much reminds me of the Audi A7 from some angles. Long and lithe, with a nice looking infotainment system it certainly got my attention.

I had one for a loaner about 6 months ago. I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. It drove OK, probably could use a bit more power but it was adequate, and seemed to have a lot of room inside. But I did not like the interior. Cloth seat fabric on the dash is a dumb idea that Chevy needs to ditch. The black LT model interior was very gloomy and did not feel very posh. Not a car I would consider, at least in that trim. Maybe the top-line model with the bigger engine and leather inside would be better.

If it was a loaner 6 months ago I doubt it was a 2017. The 2017 LTZ Turbo model is specifically what I read two days ago the review about. I am still enjoying my 2012 Kliexus, especially the envelope I no longer receive with money owed. However, I would really like an automatic brake system....and better brakes, Like a "Two Pot" system with two hydraulic pots pushing on larger pads with vented, but not with cross-drilled holes in the discs.as they eat brake pads. \\

We all have our likes and dislikes and different tastes, but the 2017 Chevy Malibu has that teen monitor system and I have 3 teenage girls getting ready to drive. I is ready now, 1 year from now, and 3 years from now. The only car I generally hate is the 2016 and below Altima 2.5 S or SE, or any other trim EXCEPT the 3.5 SEL. New Maxima is a hit...along with Murano.