Midsize Sedans 2.0

ab348

stickguy said:

Civic def looks better in a darker color IMO.

And at night. In the dark.

Michaell

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

Civic def looks better in a darker color IMO.

At at night. In the dark.

During a blackout -- wouldn't want the street lights to provide any illumination.

explorerx4

One thing I don't like about my Fusion is the small trunk opening.
It's fine for suitcases, but I couldn't fit my lawnmower into the trunk, which is plenty big enough for it.
I folded down the rear sear and stuck it partially in the trunk that way.

sda

benjaminh said:

Test Driven gives a video preview of the 2018 Accord....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0XxJWeZgIo

I enjoyed the video, thx. The roof line and silhouette reminds me a little of the Impala. At certain angles I don't know about the front end styling. Looks blunt and over done.

explorerx4

That picture of the Red Accord looks a lot like a Fusion with a different grille.

ab348

The "bullnose" shape at the front of the hood and fenders reminded me a bit of the current Mustang.

andres3

So do Bull-nose shaped trims have anything to do with Bulls' noses?

benjaminh

For good or ill, this might be the first Accord where the styling can be described as "aggressive." I kind of like it, but I think it's going to be polarizing.

On the other hand, Honda might have been taking more of a risk if the styling of the 2018 Accord was seen as bland.

The success of the Civic is due to its all-around strong performance, but the "out-there" styling has helped, I think. Since it's a Honda it can be a little "freaky"—because when people see the Honda badge they know that it's also sensible and well-engineered.

benjaminh

Car and Driver feels mixed about the 2018 Sonata....

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-hyundai-sonata-first-drive-review

"As in years past, the Sonata proved comfortable and quiet but isn’t particularly engaging to drive. Although all 2018 Sonatas have rear trailing arms that are slightly thicker than before, we didn’t notice any significant changes to the car’s ride or handling characteristics, and the softly sprung Hyundai leans heavily in turns. The revised electrically assisted rack-and-pinion steering system makes for a less artificial feel at lower speeds. The steering doesn’t offer much feedback, but the 2.0T’s provides more natural weighting at higher speeds.

Although the wrapping has changed, the 2018 Hyundai Sonata is a lot like the 2017 Sonata. Still big and comfortable, this is an adept family hauler thanks to its sizable back seat and large trunk. We’d like to see the model’s advanced safety features expanded to more trim levels, and we’d also vote to make the Sonata Eco available with more standard or optional safety and convenience items. Hyundai may consider the 2018 Sonata its best yet, but the Alabama-built sedan still feels like it needs more of a remix to challenge the genre’s best."



Although a good value, it doesn't seem like the revised 2018 Sonata will provide major competition for the all-new 2018 Camry and 2018 Accord.

stickguy

I still want to drive a 2.0t, just to compare to my 2015 2.4. Probably a better deal financially to re-up with Hyundai, but if the other options blow me away, I'll bite the bullet.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I still want to drive a 2.0t, just to compare to my 2015 2.4. Probably a better deal financially to re-up with Hyundai, but if the other options blow me away, I'll bite the bullet.

Is your Sonata leased? If so, would it be a bargain to just buy it? Unless the soft handling of your Sonata bothers you, I'm not sure you're going to be impressed with the sharper handling of the 2018 Camry or 2018 Accord.

stickguy

I prefer something with sharper handling, but sonata has been ok. Not buying it. No fun there, and residual is too high.

andres3

benjaminh said:

Car and Driver feels mixed about the 2018 Sonata....

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-hyundai-sonata-first-drive-review

"As in years past, the Sonata proved comfortable and quiet but isn’t particularly engaging to drive. Although all 2018 Sonatas have rear trailing arms that are slightly thicker than before, we didn’t notice any significant changes to the car’s ride or handling characteristics, and the softly sprung Hyundai leans heavily in turns. The revised electrically assisted rack-and-pinion steering system makes for a less artificial feel at lower speeds. The steering doesn’t offer much feedback, but the 2.0T’s provides more natural weighting at higher speeds.

Although the wrapping has changed, the 2018 Hyundai Sonata is a lot like the 2017 Sonata. Still big and comfortable, this is an adept family hauler thanks to its sizable back seat and large trunk. We’d like to see the model’s advanced safety features expanded to more trim levels, and we’d also vote to make the Sonata Eco available with more standard or optional safety and convenience items. Hyundai may consider the 2018 Sonata its best yet, but the Alabama-built sedan still feels like it needs more of a remix to challenge the genre’s best."



Although a good value, it doesn't seem like the revised 2018 Sonata will provide major competition for the all-new 2018 Camry and 2018 Accord.

The Kia Optima LX Turbo (Eco) is very similar to the Sonata Eco. I compared it to the similarly equipped Accord Sport, and in my sample of 1, I saved about $50/month going with the Kia on a lease. Was the Accord $50/month better..... not sure about that. Will the new one be? Probably.

benjaminh

Although it'll probably be a couple of months before there are test drives for the new Accord, Honda itself seems confident that the 2018 Accord will have very good handling for a midsize car....

"Mated to the new body is a more sophisticated new chassis design. The 2018 Accord’s lighter chassis features a new Macpherson strut front suspension with L-shaped aluminum control arms mounted to an all-aluminum front subframe. The new setup better isolates and manages varying road inputs, improving handling precision, ride quality and cabin quietness along with outstanding high-speed stability and control. The new, more space-efficient rear suspension is a multi-link design mounted to a more rigid, floating rear subframe. Fluid-filled compliance bushings at all four corners further improve ride comfort and absorption of road irregularities, and all new Accords also feature, for the first time, an Adaptive Damper System with the ability to adjust shock absorber damping force every 1/500 of a second, providing for a more compliant and controlled ride in all driving situations. The new Accord has a 10 mm lower center of gravity. The adoption of lighter-weight turbocharged engines and other body design changes reduce the vehicle’s moment of inertia, resulting in crisper turn-in and steering response."

http://hondanews.com/releases/dramatic-design-of-reimagined-2018-honda-accord-signals-new-direction-for-america-s-retail-best-selling-midsize-sedan?page=2

I apologize for my ignorance, but what is an "adaptive damper"? Computer-controlled shock absorbers? Does any other midsize car already have this as standard? I assume an Acura or Lexus sedan would have this, but is that correct? Does the 2018 Camry have adaptive dampers? If so, I missed it. How much of a difference is this likely to make in, say, taking a corner at moderate to somewhat higher speed?

benjaminh

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:

Car and Driver feels mixed about the 2018 Sonata....

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-hyundai-sonata-first-drive-review

"As in years past, the Sonata proved comfortable and quiet but isn’t particularly engaging to drive. Although all 2018 Sonatas have rear trailing arms that are slightly thicker than before, we didn’t notice any significant changes to the car’s ride or handling characteristics, and the softly sprung Hyundai leans heavily in turns. The revised electrically assisted rack-and-pinion steering system makes for a less artificial feel at lower speeds. The steering doesn’t offer much feedback, but the 2.0T’s provides more natural weighting at higher speeds.

Although the wrapping has changed, the 2018 Hyundai Sonata is a lot like the 2017 Sonata. Still big and comfortable, this is an adept family hauler thanks to its sizable back seat and large trunk. We’d like to see the model’s advanced safety features expanded to more trim levels, and we’d also vote to make the Sonata Eco available with more standard or optional safety and convenience items. Hyundai may consider the 2018 Sonata its best yet, but the Alabama-built sedan still feels like it needs more of a remix to challenge the genre’s best."



Although a good value, it doesn't seem like the revised 2018 Sonata will provide major competition for the all-new 2018 Camry and 2018 Accord.

The Kia Optima LX Turbo (Eco) is very similar to the Sonata Eco. I compared it to the similarly equipped Accord Sport, and in my sample of 1, I saved about $50/month going with the Kia on a lease. Was the Accord $50/month better..... not sure about that. Will the new one be? Probably.

The Sonata and Optima 1.6 turbos seem like great cars for the money. All the reviews I've seen say that it's a very impressive engine/transmission combination, giving fast acceleration and high mpg.

Does yours have the 7-speed DCT? I'm almost sure it does. If so, how do you like it in terms of acceleration, smoothness, "manual" shifting, etc.?

akirby

Fusion Sport has adaptive dampening for performance reasons. If it's standard I would assume it's a lighterweight/lower cost version compared to what they use on performance and luxury vehicles.

benjaminh

Right now I think most reviewers say that for the entry-level models of midsize sedans that the Mazda6 probably has the best handling, and the Accord is maybe 2nd place. Camry is about dead-last. But in about a week or so when the 2018 Camry hits the dealer lots it's about to go from last to maybe tied for first with the Mazda6—or at least equal to the Accord.

akirby

I think Fusion is right there with Mazda6 followed by Accord, then the rest. Will be interesting to see how the new Camry ranks.

benjaminh

Reviews I've read say the Fusion has good handling, but is not quite at the top. And that's how it seemed to me the last time I drove one, but that was a while ago. For instance, here's what Car and Driver said in a recent review of the 2016 Fusion....

"....what we’d like is for the Ford to show a little more athleticism. It feels plenty competent and the hardware is there, but the steering and suspension lack that final ounce of sharpness that sets apart sportier rivals such as the Mazda 6 and the Honda Accord."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-ford-fusion-quick-take-review

But Fusion has some performance models too that would certainly test better than the standard model. In any case, handling like styling can be somewhat subjective.

akirby

That may have changed with the last gen Accord and Fusion. I know back in 2006-2009 Fusion was a tad better.

andres3

benjaminh said:

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:

Car and Driver feels mixed about the 2018 Sonata....

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-hyundai-sonata-first-drive-review

"As in years past, the Sonata proved comfortable and quiet but isn’t particularly engaging to drive. Although all 2018 Sonatas have rear trailing arms that are slightly thicker than before, we didn’t notice any significant changes to the car’s ride or handling characteristics, and the softly sprung Hyundai leans heavily in turns. The revised electrically assisted rack-and-pinion steering system makes for a less artificial feel at lower speeds. The steering doesn’t offer much feedback, but the 2.0T’s provides more natural weighting at higher speeds.

Although the wrapping has changed, the 2018 Hyundai Sonata is a lot like the 2017 Sonata. Still big and comfortable, this is an adept family hauler thanks to its sizable back seat and large trunk. We’d like to see the model’s advanced safety features expanded to more trim levels, and we’d also vote to make the Sonata Eco available with more standard or optional safety and convenience items. Hyundai may consider the 2018 Sonata its best yet, but the Alabama-built sedan still feels like it needs more of a remix to challenge the genre’s best."



Although a good value, it doesn't seem like the revised 2018 Sonata will provide major competition for the all-new 2018 Camry and 2018 Accord.

The Kia Optima LX Turbo (Eco) is very similar to the Sonata Eco. I compared it to the similarly equipped Accord Sport, and in my sample of 1, I saved about $50/month going with the Kia on a lease. Was the Accord $50/month better..... not sure about that. Will the new one be? Probably.

The Sonata and Optima 1.6 turbos seem like great cars for the money. All the reviews I've seen say that it's a very impressive engine/transmission combination, giving fast acceleration and high mpg.

Does yours have the 7-speed DCT? I'm almost sure it does. If so, how do you like it in terms of acceleration, smoothness, "manual" shifting, etc.?

I'm very experienced with DCT transmissions as all my cars have had them since 2006.

The Kia 7-speed DCT could use a bit of work and programming improvements at lower speeds in stop and go traffic. However, under normal use it is pretty darn smooth and quick. It makes the 1.6T seem at times faster than the 1.8T in the Alltrack. Part of that is due to the lighter weight of the newer Optima chassis, and of course the efficiency of FWD vs. the VW's AWD. I think the 1.6 has more high end RPM grunt, whereas the VW has more low end torque.

For normal people, there is enough power, but sometimes I am left wanting more; usually under hard acceleration; which is often needed to scoot the car along; which means my mileage suffers. I average 28-29 MPG with a heavy highway commute, but there are traffic jams in spots regularly. I think I'm more disappointed in the fuel economy than anything else. I'd like more power, LED headlights, and a better sound system. The stock base sound system is below par.

Regarding power again; the car can leave you very flat footed if the turbo isn't spooled up, and downshifts can take way too long for a DCT. I drive in "normal" mode 97% of the time, but Sport mode solves that problem. I test drove it in sport mode for 85% of the test drive. I think that's why I liked it so much. I never drive it in Eco as "normal" is Eco enough for me .

benjaminh

Right now, at $24,000 before destination, the 2018 Camry LE has the highest base price of a standard midsize sedan. But actually if you factor in the improvements and additional equipment it seems like Toyota actually cut the price compared to a 2017 Camry LE, which is $23,070.

First, Toyota's "SafeSense" of adaptive cruise control, lane keeping stuff, etc. is now standard, and that probably costs or is worth something like $1k right there. I'm actually mixed about this stuff, since I want to drive the car myself and pay attention, but adaptive cruise sounds useful, and the other stuff might be good too if I gave it a chance.

But then the 2018 Camry also has an all-new and significantly better engine, an all new and better 8-speed transmission, better handling, improved styling inside and out, better ergonomics, 17" tires with alloy wheels rather than 16" tires with plastic wheel covers, 25% higher fuel economy, etc. All that stuff seems like it's also worth at least $1k.

Of course, real world the last of the 2017 Camrys are going out the door for as much as $5k off of msrp, while the new one might only have a discount of a thousand or two for the first few months....

But I'd look at it this way. The 2017 Camry was a thoroughly mediocre car in every way. I've had them many times as rental cars and have always felt they were kind of pathetic. The 2018 Camry, however, seems like it has some major dashes of Lexus in it, but for half the price. It's not as fancy or powerful as a Lexus, but it's got something of that brand's goodness baked into it it seems like—if we can believe some of the positive early reviews, anyway.

stickguy

sticker on any of these cars is pretty meaningless lately. but pretty common that each redesign adds a lot of upgrades and content/features, for little if any increase in sticker price.

sda

It is still premature but I have the following on my list to consider when I replace the Accord. All with sunroof and upgraded audio if available. if used, CPO

2018 Accord Sport, EX or EXL.
2018 Camry, SE, XSE or XLE
2016-17 Acura TLX tech 4 or V6.
2016-17 Avalon XLE premium
or above
2016-17 Passat SEL
2016-17 Fusion Titanium or Sport
2016-17 MKZ 2.0 or 3.7
2017- Civic EXL, Touring
2016- Mazda 6 Grand Touring
Some dark horses--
2016-17 Chrysler 300C or S Hemi preferred
2016-17 Maxima upper trim level
2017 Buick LaCrosse
2016-Impala LTZ

stickguy

I would say about 7 of those models are also on my list.

benjaminh

sda said:

It is still premature but I have the following on my list to consider when I replace the Accord. All with sunroof and upgraded audio if available. if used, CPO

2018 Accord Sport, EX or EXL.
2018 Camry, SE, XSE or XLE
2016-17 Acura TLX tech 4 or V6.
2016-17 Avalon XLE premium
or above
2016-17 Passat SEL
2016-17 Fusion Titanium or Sport
2016-17 MKZ 2.0 or 3.7
2017- Civic EXL, Touring
2016- Mazda 6 Grand Touring
Some dark horses--
2016-17 Chrysler 300C or S Hemi preferred
2016-17 Maxima upper trim level
2017 Buick LaCrosse
2016-Impala LTZ

Speaking of upgraded audio, I can definitely tell that the stereo on my wife's Accord EXL is better than on my EX. They are upgrading the stereo on the 2018 Accord EX a little, but still, I have to say that until you get to the EXL level the stereos in Accords aren't all that good. They are ok, acceptable, etc, but....From being in several rental cars, Accord base stereos are about the same as the competition. The base stereo in a Camry, Altima, Fusion, Sonata, etc. isn't so good either. I actually think maybe the Sonata was the best, but I'm not sure...

sda

benjaminh said:

sda said:

It is still premature but I have the following on my list to consider when I replace the Accord. All with sunroof and upgraded audio if available. if used, CPO

2018 Accord Sport, EX or EXL.
2018 Camry, SE, XSE or XLE
2016-17 Acura TLX tech 4 or V6.
2016-17 Avalon XLE premium
or above
2016-17 Passat SEL
2016-17 Fusion Titanium or Sport
2016-17 MKZ 2.0 or 3.7
2017- Civic EXL, Touring
2016- Mazda 6 Grand Touring
Some dark horses--
2016-17 Chrysler 300C or S Hemi preferred
2016-17 Maxima upper trim level
2017 Buick LaCrosse
2016-Impala LTZ

Speaking of upgraded audio, I can definitely tell that the stereo on my wife's Accord EXL is better than on my EX. They are upgrading the stereo on the 2018 Accord EX a little, but still, I have to say that until you get to the EXL level the stereos in Accords aren't all that good. They are ok, acceptable, etc, but....From being in several rental cars, Accord base stereos are about the same as the competition. The base stereo in a Camry, Altima, Fusion, Sonata, etc. isn't so good either. I actually think maybe the Sonata was the best, but I'm not sure...

I agree, the audio in my EX is ok, nothing more. I do like that it has simple controls and easy to find preset buttons.

benjaminh

from Wards Auto....Last year Hyundai sold 25% of its vehicles as rentals, but is trying to cut down.

"A senior Hyundai executive in Korea last month said the brand in the U.S in 2016 increased its reliance on fleet sales, citing a 25% fleet ratio at Hyundai vs. an 18% industry-average fleet mix per U.S. brands.

HMA officials say they are trying to lessen their reliance on fleet sales this year as a means of finding a place to put high numbers of cars in inventory. Fleet also can harm residual values as daily rental firms buy in bulk, usually meaning a lower purchase price which then depresses used-car prices when the vehicles are sold.

“When we see unwillingness (by rental-car firms) to pay the prices that we’re looking for for our vehicles, then it is the time for us to reconsider the volumes that we’re doing,” Mike O’Brien, vice president-product, corporate and digital planning for HMA, tells WardsAuto in an interview."

http://wardsauto.com/industry/hyundai-goals-reinvigorate-sonata-resist-fleet

benjaminh

For epa combined mpg for midsize cars with standard engine and auto, Camry takes the lead....

Camry 32
Altima 31
Accord 30
Sonata 29
Mazda6 29
Optima 28
Fusion 25

[Deleted User]

akirby said:

cski said:

I really love fords 2.3 ecoboost manual trans drivetrain.....fantastic in a stang, wish it was in the Fusion. Is it? I have not posted much in a year.

No, it's not available in a Fusion, but the 2.7L V6 ecoboost with 325 hp and 380 lb/ft is available in the Fusion sport (AWD).

Yes, but I assume that model is going to carry a $35,000 sticker if not more. I don't need AWD where I live other than to put that power to the ground so it makes the car more than I can afford. I must pay for my daughter's (16) insurance on my Optima. Frustrating having one income. For a while they all have to share my car. There is also the likelihood of losing my car to an accident. So, I must buy another car soon and I am going to buy a Honda Accord, or a Mazda 6, or a Camry. I really don't want a Camry in name, but now that Toyota have finally "gorgeous-ized" the car it must be considered.

benjaminh

The 2018 Camry Hybrid LE is rated an amazing 52 mpg, but it also lists for $3700 more the 2018 Camry LE. Depending on how much you drive you'll save about $500 a year on gas, but that still means a 7+ year pay off time for getting the hybrid.

Correction. Looking it up, the Hybrid Camry has more standard stuff than the LE, including moonroof, smart entry/pushbutton start, and dual zone climate control. I'd say those things are worth maybe $1700 or so to me, meaning the price difference is more like 2k, which mean just 4 years for pay off. This makes the 2018 Camry hybrid LE a good deal imho.

roadburner

stickguy said:

I would say about 7 of those models are also on my list.

That's 7 more than me...

roadburner

benjaminh said:

The 2018 Camry Hybrid LE is rated an amazing 52 mpg, but it also lists for $3700 more the 2018 Camry LE. Depending on how much you drive you'll save about $500 a year on gas, but that still means a 7+ year pay off time for getting the hybrid.

Correction. Looking it up, the Hybrid Camry has more standard stuff than the LE, including moonroof, smart entry/pushbutton start, and dual zone climate control. I'd say those things are worth maybe $1700 or so to me, meaning the price difference is more like 2k, which mean just 4 years for pay off. This makes the 2018 Camry hybrid LE a good deal imho.

I was surprised to see that the 530e is only $200 more than a 530i; throw in a $4668 tax credit and going with the PHEV is a no-brainer.

akirby

cski said:

Yes, but I assume that model is going to carry a $35,000 sticker if not more. I don't need AWD where I live other than to put that power to the ground so it makes the car more than I can afford.

Fusion Sport street price right now starts at around $28K.

roadburner

akirby said:

Yes, but I assume that model is going to carry a $35,000 sticker if not more. I don't need AWD where I live other than to put that power to the ground so it makes the car more than I can afford.

Fusion Sport street price right now starts at around $28K.

It doesn't have enough "Sport" to suit me but it's really a fantastic bargain. 

akirby

Not if you're comparing it to 2 door tiny BMWs.........

roadburner

I don't consider a 175" long 3525 lb. car tiny- I call it just the right size. I drove a 4200 lb. car all through high school and college and really don't want to repeat the experience- especially if it's fitted with a FWD-biased AWD system. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad car- it just isn't a car that suits my automotive tastes.

andres3

roadburner said:

I don't consider a 175" long 3525 lb. car tiny- I call it just the right size. I drove a 4200 lb. car all through high school and college and really don't want to repeat the experience- especially if it's fitted with a FWD-biased AWD system. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad car- it just isn't a car that suits my automotive tastes.

I think the Dodge Demon comes in at over 4,200 pounds too. At that point, why not just make a Durango Demon.

roadburner

If I HAD to have a new four door in the under $30k bracket I'd be resigned to FWD; I'd most likely pick between the Civic Si, GTI, and Focus ST. I'd have to drive them back-to-back to make the final call.

akirby

Weight is only one piece of the power to weight ratio. I understand the handling advantages of a lighter car but today's midsizers are yesterdays full-sizers. A civic, focus or Corolla would be closer to those lightweight midsizers of the past.

benjaminh

roadburner said:

If I HAD to have a new four door in the under $30k bracket I'd be resigned to FWD; I'd most likely pick between the Civic Si, GTI, and Focus ST. I'd have to drive them back-to-back to make the final call.

No interest in the AWD Subaru Legacy?

benjaminh

cski said:

akirby said:

cski said:

I really love fords 2.3 ecoboost manual trans drivetrain.....fantastic in a stang, wish it was in the Fusion. Is it? I have not posted much in a year.

No, it's not available in a Fusion, but the 2.7L V6 ecoboost with 325 hp and 380 lb/ft is available in the Fusion sport (AWD).

Yes, but I assume that model is going to carry a $35,000 sticker if not more. I don't need AWD where I live other than to put that power to the ground so it makes the car more than I can afford. I must pay for my daughter's (16) insurance on my Optima. Frustrating having one income. For a while they all have to share my car. There is also the likelihood of losing my car to an accident. So, I must buy another car soon and I am going to buy a Honda Accord, or a Mazda 6, or a Camry. I really don't want a Camry in name, but now that Toyota have finally "gorgeous-ized" the car it must be considered.

Isn't KIA also on your shopping list? Or are you pretty certain you want to change brands? If so, I'm wondering why. Seems like your Optima has been mostly good to you. So is it just change for the sake of variety, or is there something about the Optima that you don't feel satisfied with?

benjaminh

cski said:

akirby said:

cski said:

I really love fords 2.3 ecoboost manual trans drivetrain.....fantastic in a stang, wish it was in the Fusion. Is it? I have not posted much in a year.

No, it's not available in a Fusion, but the 2.7L V6 ecoboost with 325 hp and 380 lb/ft is available in the Fusion sport (AWD).

Yes, but I assume that model is going to carry a $35,000 sticker if not more. I don't need AWD where I live other than to put that power to the ground so it makes the car more than I can afford. I must pay for my daughter's (16) insurance on my Optima. Frustrating having one income. For a while they all have to share my car. There is also the likelihood of losing my car to an accident. So, I must buy another car soon and I am going to buy a Honda Accord, or a Mazda 6, or a Camry. I really don't want a Camry in name, but now that Toyota have finally "gorgeous-ized" the car it must be considered.

Why isn't KIA also on your shopping list? And is the new Civic still in the running?

benjaminh

This is a pic of the dash of the car my wife owns, a 2013 Accord EXL-navi. Great car, but the dash is a bit complicated. Amazingly, this is a simplification from the 2008 Accord EXL-navi we used to own....

benjaminh

Compare what's above to this pic of the dash of a 2018 Accord....

benjaminh

By my count the top-levels of the Accord have gone from having a c. 4 level dash for instruments and controls in the center, to having a c. 2 level dash. Overall, it seems like a big improvement. And after being criticized for taking out the volume knob entirely in 2016, Honda has now almost gone "knob-crazy" with 5 knobs. It's almost like in Disney's 101 Dalmatians, when Jasper says, "I've got the right knob for this job!"

benjaminh

2018 Camry blind spot monitor demonstrated....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dfsu3AnQxw

roadburner

benjaminh said:

roadburner said:

If I HAD to have a new four door in the under $30k bracket I'd be resigned to FWD; I'd most likely pick between the Civic Si, GTI, and Focus ST. I'd have to drive them back-to-back to make the final call.

No interest in the AWD Subaru Legacy?

Nope.

stickguy

Need to see pricing, but the 2.0 accord is starting to interest me. Might as well go big! Plus my daughter loves the push button PRNDL.

akirby

Not a fan of the previous Accord dashes but I like this one. Knobs are good for some things.

We have the push button transmission on our MKX and I like it. Although on the MKX it's between the steering wheel and the display screen so it's easier to see than down on the console. I like the fact you can turn off the engine and it will park itself automatically - does Honda do that?