Midsize Sedans 2.0

benjaminh

stickguy said:

Need to see pricing, but the 2.0 accord is starting to interest me. Might as well go big! Plus my daughter loves the push button PRNDL.

Here's my guess on 2018 Accord pricing with auto trans....Discounts of maybe 2k might be possible by December.

LX $25k
Sport 26.5
Sport 2.0T 28.5 (potentially the "bargain" of the lineup if you want a fast car?)
EX 29
EXL 30.5
EXL 2.0 32.5
Touring 34
Touring 2.0T 36

roadburner

benjaminh said:

2018 Camry blind spot monitor demonstrated....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dfsu3AnQxw

I've started showing my customers how to properly adjust their mirrors when I'm delivering a car. Very few people know how to do it. I emphasize that blind spot monitoring is a nice feature, but it's no substitute for situational awareness.

andres3

roadburner said:

benjaminh said:

roadburner said:

If I HAD to have a new four door in the under $30k bracket I'd be resigned to FWD; I'd most likely pick between the Civic Si, GTI, and Focus ST. I'd have to drive them back-to-back to make the final call.

No interest in the AWD Subaru Legacy?

Nope.

The Legacy needs the 3.6 to get out of its own way, and that one would be over $30K I think?

benjaminh

I think the new Accord Sport with the 2.0 turbo and the 6 speed manual is what you might think of as the "Car and Driver" edition of the 2018 Accord. A few months ago I was thinking the new Camry might dethrone the Accord as C&Ds favorite midsize sedan on their 10-best list. But now, I don't think there's much of a chance of that at all. I think the Sport 2.0 6MT is is going to be built and sold in tiny numbers, but my guess is one of them is going to be delivered to Car and Driver soon, and that it'll keep the Accord on the 10-best list for another few years.

andres3

So is Acura going to make a TLX-S A-Spec anytime soon? Put some twin turbos on that 3.5 V6!

akirby

roadburner said:

I've started showing my customers how to properly adjust their mirrors when I'm delivering a car. Very few people know how to do it. I emphasize that blind spot monitoring is a nice feature, but it's no substitute for situational awareness.

Bingo! I tell people there is no such thing as a blind spot if your mirrors are properly adjusted.

pensfan83

Are new Camry's showing up on dealer lots? I could have sworn that's what I saw on one of the Toyota lots near me when I drove by this morning. I caught a glimpse at the very last minute but I'm pretty sure that was it.

roadburner

akirby said:

roadburner said:

I've started showing my customers how to properly adjust their mirrors when I'm delivering a car. Very few people know how to do it. I emphasize that blind spot monitoring is a nice feature, but it's no substitute for situational awareness.

Bingo! I tell people there is no such thing as a blind spot if your mirrors are properly adjusted.

Some people are literally amazed when they learn what they can actually see with properly adjusted mirrors...

stickguy

still doesn't mean that BLIS is not a wonderful safety feature.

akirby

It's certainly a convenience and a good thing to have as a backup. But not having it doesn't make you less safe per se.

Cross traffic warning is much more useful to me since it can warn you about cars coming from the right or left that you can't actually see. Or the rear view camera which also shows you things you can't see from the driver's seat even with properly adjusted mirrors.

stickguy

back up camera is absolutely a must have. especially with the horrid rear visibility that seems to be standard in all cars now, and even more so CUVs.

pensfan83

Backup cameras are supposed to be standard by 2018 I believe.

roadburner

akirby said:

It's certainly a convenience and a good thing to have as a backup. But not having it doesn't make you less safe per se.

Cross traffic warning is much more useful to me since it can warn you about cars coming from the right or left that you can't actually see. Or the rear view camera which also shows you things you can't see from the driver's seat even with properly adjusted mirrors.

I agree; those features extend your view. I also like the radar systems that show you objects around your car when parking. That's helpful for maneuvering in dark or low light conditions. I'm not interested in "features" that only mimic my own abilities.

Michaell

When her MINI is paid off, my daughter is contemplating an Infiniti QX50 as her next car, specifically because of the all around parking view camera. 

roadburner

Several BMW have that feature as well.

Michaell

roadburner said:

Several BMW have that feature as well.

I'll see if she's interested in an X1 or X3, if that feature is available. While she's not much of a car person, she is aware of the shared corporate ownership between MINI and BMW.

berri

Looking at these new sedans coming out, does it seem a bit ironic that they are lowering the seating position at the same time that consumers are moving over to crossovers for a higher seating position???

suydam

I agree.

sda

roadburner said:

akirby said:

roadburner said:

I've started showing my customers how to properly adjust their mirrors when I'm delivering a car. Very few people know how to do it. I emphasize that blind spot monitoring is a nice feature, but it's no substitute for situational awareness.

Bingo! I tell people there is no such thing as a blind spot if your mirrors are properly adjusted.

Some people are literally amazed when they learn what they can actually see with properly adjusted mirrors...

I am in the process of teaching my daughter how to drive. Knowing your expertise about driving I would be very appreciative if you describe how to properly adjust mirrors.

backy

iluvmysephia1 said:

...What do you think of the new 2018 Kia Rio hatch and sedan?

The sedan looks kinda boring, but I like the hatchback. I'd pass on the black/red interior though. Funny thing is, I'm getting better FE on my 173 HP Forte5 than I did on my 2013 Rio5 with only 138 HP. Both with 6ATs. I probably won't go back to the subcompact class again, since for a few bucks more a month I can get a compact that's much more car for the money.

backy

Does anyone else think the 2018 Accord's dash looks a lot like that of the Mazda6? That was my first thought when I saw pics of the Accord's dash.

stickguy

Looks like Audi too. I don't care about copying, as long as it looks good.

backy

Yeah, copying Audi is a good thing. The comparison to Audi was mentioned before, but I don't recall a comparison to the Mazda6.

The Camry, on the other hand, continues Toyota's recent fad to have asymmetric dashboards. I'm not a fan. There's a reason the ancient Greeks favored symmetry--it looks pleasing to the eye. I also hate the front end of the Camry. Those two things alone would steer me away from it, given there's competitors that don't hurt my eyes nearly as much.

iluvmysephia1

backy, Android Auto and Apple Carplay and a backup camera are all included in every 2018 Kia Rio. Can't wait ta scope out the pricing. I like the hatch, the sedan is sort of Ford Focus bland, but looking better to me all the time. The sedan would look much better with sharp aftermarket wheels.

akirby

sda said:

I am in the process of teaching my daughter how to drive. Knowing your expertise about driving I would be very appreciative if you describe how to properly adjust mirrors.

You can google the exact instructions but basically you lean your head to the left so that it's next to the window and adjust the left side mirror until you can barely see the side of the car. Lean to the right the same distance and adjust the right mirror the same way.

It points the mirrors out more so you can see more traffic to the side.

The end result is that as a car leaves your center rear view mirror it appears in your side mirror and when it leaves your side mirror it enters your peripheral vision.

iluvmysephia1

Speaking of Fo-Mo-Co, as we were pulling out of the Barnes and Noble parking lot tonight a little late model silver Ford Fiesta hatchback was pulling out, too. That is not a bad looker, though I sat in a 2014 Kia Rio sedan when we were shopping for a car in early July of 2014, and man, there was a cramped small feeling to the front seat area. Just moving up to the Soul's interior size feels so much more comfortable. But I do like the Fiesta design, mostly the hatch. If looking at a Focus, I prefer the RS base, but it's price? $44,100. Owee.

roadburner

Michaell said:

roadburner said:

Several BMW have that feature as well.

I'll see if she's interested in an X1 or X3, if that feature is available. While she's not much of a car person, she is aware of the shared corporate ownership between MINI and BMW.

It's available on the X3; BMW calls it Surround View, and it's part of the Driving Assistance Plus Package, which requires you to also spec Navigation as well as the Driving Assistance Package.

roadburner

akirby said:

sda said:

I am in the process of teaching my daughter how to drive. Knowing your expertise about driving I would be very appreciative if you describe how to properly adjust mirrors.

You can google the exact instructions but basically you lean your head to the left so that it's next to the window and adjust the left side mirror until you can barely see the side of the car. Lean to the right the same distance and adjust the right mirror the same way.

It points the mirrors out more so you can see more traffic to the side.

The end result is that as a car leaves your center rear view mirror it appears in your side mirror and when it leaves your side mirror it enters your peripheral vision.

Exactly.

Michaell

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

roadburner said:

Several BMW have that feature as well.

I'll see if she's interested in an X1 or X3, if that feature is available. While she's not much of a car person, she is aware of the shared corporate ownership between MINI and BMW.

It's available on the X3; BMW calls it Surround View, and it's part of the Driving Assistance Plus Package, which requires you to also spec Navigation as well as the Driving Assistance Package.

Thanks, I'll pass that information along.

The QX50 comes standard with the 300+ HP V6; I know she can get a 35i with similar HP for the X3, but not sure how that prices out in comparison.

benjaminh

berri said:

Looking at these new sedans coming out, does it seem a bit ironic that they are lowering the seating position at the same time that consumers are moving over to crossovers for a higher seating position???

I read an article a few months ago that had a comment about this from one of the designers of the new Camry. Basically he said that rather than trying to imitate an SUV, which he thought was a losing game and would never work, they were trying to maximize what was best about a good sedan. And unlike past Camrys, for this one that became about having a somewhat sporty ride, a lower center of gravity, good visibility, etc.

berri

Makes sense I guess if the majority of new sedan buyers are younger, but maybe not as much if they are older and empty nesters. I don't really know the composition of sedan buyer demographics these days. But it is probably seldom wise to bet against Toyota.

roadburner

Michaell said:

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

roadburner said:

Several BMW have that feature as well.

I'll see if she's interested in an X1 or X3, if that feature is available. While she's not much of a car person, she is aware of the shared corporate ownership between MINI and BMW.

It's available on the X3; BMW calls it Surround View, and it's part of the Driving Assistance Plus Package, which requires you to also spec Navigation as well as the Driving Assistance Package.

Thanks, I'll pass that information along.

The QX50 comes standard with the 300+ HP V6; I know she can get a 35i with similar HP for the X3, but not sure how that prices out in comparison.

She can still order an X3 to her specs- and get it in about 3-4 weeks.

benjaminh

On another site, someone has posted a summary of mixed reviews from early test drivers of the new Camry....

"Three test drives of the 4-cyl have been posted at Toyota Nation, and they're all negative. Here are some comments: "The new 8-speed struggled to find a comfortable gear" and "I also was underwhelmed with the 8spd trans. Had a couple rough downshifts and it seemed to be hunting for a gear" and "I'd have to agree with some above that the transmission seems like an issue which could keep me from purchasing a new Camry".

As for the interior: "leatherette still looks and feels cheap" and "The 2018 door cards is another disappointment" and " I thought that the 18's cabin was noisy"

Michaell

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

roadburner said:

Several BMW have that feature as well.

I'll see if she's interested in an X1 or X3, if that feature is available. While she's not much of a car person, she is aware of the shared corporate ownership between MINI and BMW.

It's available on the X3; BMW calls it Surround View, and it's part of the Driving Assistance Plus Package, which requires you to also spec Navigation as well as the Driving Assistance Package.

Thanks, I'll pass that information along.

The QX50 comes standard with the 300+ HP V6; I know she can get a 35i with similar HP for the X3, but not sure how that prices out in comparison.

She can still order an X3 to her specs- and get it in about 3-4 weeks.

Good to know. Wonder if I could convince her of picking it up in SC?

She is still a few years away from doing anything, however.

roadburner

We spent last week in Seabrook Island SC; it may be a limited sample size, but it looked like the Big 3 totally lost their foothold in the sedan segment. I saw more than a few Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans/Escalades, but very few domestic cars. I'd say one in ten cars were domestic.

benjaminh

roadburner said:

We spent last week in Seabrook Island SC; it may be a limited sample size, but it looked like the Big 3 totally lost their foothold in the sedan segment. I saw more than a few Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans/Escalades, but very few domestic cars. I'd say one in ten cars were domestic.

This was true in California back in the 1990s. I remember reading an interview back then with a GM or Ford executive who said that driving around the freeways of LA was a truly frightening experience for him—and it wasn't that he was worried about an accident. It was market share.

benjaminh

backy said:

Does anyone else think the 2018 Accord's dash looks a lot like that of the Mazda6? That was my first thought when I saw pics of the Accord's dash.

Yes, I noted that seeming influence as well. But as the Mazda6 is a top rated car, even though sales have been poor, Honda is maybe borrowing from one of the best.

In terms of overall styling, there's maybe a hint of the Audi A6 in the new Accord? not sure....

benjaminh

Above is the 2018 Accord Sport. Maybe slightly closer is the 2018 Accord Touring? Anyway, in terms of exterior dimensions it's practically identical to the A6. But then again, so is the new Camry and even most other midsize cars today.

benjaminh

In terms of that "unfinished" look on the lower front, I'm not sure what to say. But it's not like adding a strip of chrome there is going to add to the function of the car in any way. And the current look is certainly on the "raw" and "aggressive" side....?

imidazol97

roadburner said:

We spent last week in Seabrook Island SC; it may be a limited sample size, but it looked like the Big 3 totally lost their foothold in the sedan segment. I saw more than a few Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans/Escalades, but very few domestic cars. I'd say one in ten cars were domestic.

I don't believe it's sample size that distorts, as it's the income levels of those who can afford to spend time on Kiawah and beyond. That financial demographic division also helps expose the attitudinal bias about domestics. It my thinking that many buy cars not for what that car is but in how the person thinks others will see the car.

explorerx4

I see a lot of Fusion in that Accord.

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

roadburner said:

We spent last week in Seabrook Island SC; it may be a limited sample size, but it looked like the Big 3 totally lost their foothold in the sedan segment. I saw more than a few Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans/Escalades, but very few domestic cars. I'd say one in ten cars were domestic.

I don't believe it's sample size that distorts, as it's the income levels of those who can afford to spend time on Kiawah and beyond. That financial demographic division also helps expose the attitudinal bias about domestics. It my thinking that many buy cars not for what that car is but in how the person thinks others will see the car.

I wasn't just talking the upscale brands; the domestics were also MIA in the mainstream sedan category- Hondas, Nissans, Subarus, and Toyotas predominated.

stickguy

I hope the accord is what I xpect. Really thinking it could be a great option for us. But we shall see

andres3

Michaell said:

When her MINI is paid off, my daughter is contemplating an Infiniti QX50 as her next car, specifically because of the all around parking view camera. 

Sounds like an 8-bit Nintendo racing game view; overhead, nothing new there. Spy Hunter comes to mind.

Wasn't until Super Nintendo you had 1st person or in the cockpit type driving view options. Typically, you want the camera view behind the vehicle so you can see more around and ahead of you. Sounds like a future feature where you deploy a drone out your rear-end and it follows you with a camera transmission beamed to your in-car monitor display screen.

andres3

iluvmysephia1 said:

Speaking of Fo-Mo-Co, as we were pulling out of the Barnes and Noble parking lot tonight a little late model silver Ford Fiesta hatchback was pulling out, too. That is not a bad looker, though I sat in a 2014 Kia Rio sedan when we were shopping for a car in early July of 2014, and man, there was a cramped small feeling to the front seat area. Just moving up to the Soul's interior size feels so much more comfortable. But I do like the Fiesta design, mostly the hatch. If looking at a Focus, I prefer the RS base, but it's price? $44,100. Owee.

I thought the Focus RS was supposed to undercut the $40K Golf R by $5K? Oh well, have to feed the UAW.

andres3

benjaminh said:

roadburner said:

We spent last week in Seabrook Island SC; it may be a limited sample size, but it looked like the Big 3 totally lost their foothold in the sedan segment. I saw more than a few Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans/Escalades, but very few domestic cars. I'd say one in ten cars were domestic.

This was true in California back in the 1990s. I remember reading an interview back then with a GM or Ford executive who said that driving around the freeways of LA was a truly frightening experience for him—and it wasn't that he was worried about an accident. It was market share.

Something to be said for real-world field trips to actually "see" what might be missed looking at tables, charts, and spreadsheets all day.

andres3

benjaminh said:

Above is the 2018 Accord Sport. Maybe slightly closer is the 2018 Accord Touring? Anyway, in terms of exterior dimensions it's practically identical to the A6. But then again, so is the new Camry and even most other midsize cars today.

I think the non-sport looks better and sportier than the "sport" version to be honest. I also prefer the A6 though.
A6 TDI; oh wait, can't anymore!

iluvmysephia1

andres3 - yeah, the Ford Focus RS on the link I clicked on priced-in at $44,100. Yikes, the UAW does have to take their big bite out.

berri

...but what does it get discounted and incentivized out the door?

Michaell

iluvmysephia1 said:

andres3 - yeah, the Ford Focus RS on the link I clicked on priced-in at $44,100. Yikes, the UAW does have to take their big bite out.

Is that the marked up price or the factory window sticker?