Midsize Sedans 2.0

stickguy

10% off the week after Xmas plus cheap financing sounds good to me.

benjaminh

Over at temple of vtec someone has revealed the weight loss chart for the new Accord. We've pretty much heard this before, but the new model has lost anywhere from 114 pounds to 187 pounds depending on the model. That might not sound like a big deal, but the 2018 Camry lost no weight whatsoever compared to the 2017 Camry.

Here are a few weights for the 2018 Accord

2018 Accord LX = 3131 pounds (compared to 3431 for Fusion S, 3296 for 2018 Camry LE)
Sport 3155 (lost 152 pounds compared to 2017)
EX 3199 (-150 pounds)
EXL 2.0 (-187 pounds compared to 2017 EXL V6)

The weight loss will probably make it close to best-in-class for acceleration and mpg.

benjaminh

New Hampshire presentation by Jeff Conrad, the retiring VP and GM of Honda America on the 2018 Accord....Doesn't really tell us anything new yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdP2a26eNTM

stickguy

At this point, really just need the details of equipment levels by trim, and the pricing. I am much more interesting in the equipment breakdown!

ab348

benjaminh said:

My guess is that the 2.0T costs Honda about as much more as the $1k they are likely to charge customers compared to the 1.5T, but who knows?....

Well, I dunno. I've always wondered about this question going back to the old days when domestic manufacturers offered a half-dozen V-8s in a given model. You take a Chevy small block and bore a different-sized hole, install a bigger piston, maybe a different crank (but maybe not) and hey presto, you've moved up from a 305 to a 400. The extra cost probably isn't much. Same scenario would apply to the 1.5 vs the 2.0.

benjaminh

Some very preliminary acceleration info on the 2018 Accord....

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1333605

"JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Preliminary 0-60 times for the new Accord (Score: 1, Normal) 09-26-2017 18:23
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
2018 2.0T 6MT: 6.57s (very tricky to launch this one without a lot of wheelspin or bogging)
2018 2.0T 10AT Touring: 5.92s (no sweat. just brake torque and GO)
2018 Hybrid - 6.91s (just make sure the battery is juiced all the way up and launch in sport mode)

2017 Accord Touring (J35 V6): 6.45 seconds

All of these tests were conducted in the same test area under the same conditions (roughly 1700 ft above sea level, ~80-82F. The times were recorded by way of an OBD-II scanner (OBDLink MX Wifi) so they're probably not THE most accurate but at least it gives you an idea in a relative sense. I imagine we will see better times for both of the 2.0T versions.

If you're wondering, I wasn't able to perform any 0-60 testing of the 1.5T models though I did drive both 6MT and CVT versions. Hopefully I'll get a chance to drive both of them back in Atlanta soon."

berri

...but is the weight loss partially due to reducing sound deadening? Honda had made gains in this area.

benjaminh

berri said:

...but is the weight loss partially due to reducing sound deadening? Honda had made gains in this area.

Good question. I don't think so. Iirc I read somewhere someone from Honda saying that the 2018 Accord is slightly quieter than the last generation.

benjaminh

Here it is....

"Along with the first application of structural adhesives to Accord, cabin quietness is further enhanced by a comprehensive sound-insulating package that includes full underbody covers, which also aid aerodynamics, front and rear fender and engine compartment insulators, alloy wheels with Honda-proprietary resonator technology, sound-absorbing carpet, acoustic laminated windshield glass – plus front door acoustic glass on EX and above – and a new, three-microphone Active Noise Control system."

berri

They need to get it to market. October is just around the corner!

stickguy

October 18th. so just about 3 weeks now.

though my local dealer (a pretty big one) is still showing almost 100 2017 Accords in stock, so they man not be in quite such a hurry to have it arrive.

benjaminh

I think dealers are almost always excited to get a new model. And when they've got the old one on hand they can go both ways: "You want the all new?! Amazing, isn't it?" And they get that customer. But for those who get sticker shock, they can give them a bargain on the last of the 2017s. The 2018 is probably going to have good pricing imho. The market is just too competitive for anything less than that. People who are used to huge discounts with other makes though will have to make do with something more modest for a few weeks at least. This is the second video I've seen of a salesperson taking inquiries on the 2018 Accord. He says he's taking preorders and has already sold some. Now that's some confidence those buyers are showing. But if I really needed a new car I'd probably consider it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3ZDRk5jye8

stickguy

unless they are offering a solid discount, I am not entertaining preordering one. I will test drive on day 1, check it out good, and if I decide I want one, will come back in December maybe to start the process. And hit up a few of the nearby dealers that deal in huge volumes so will be blowing them out soon after release.

stickguy

watched another video from above, and in the questions from the one where a press guy did a walk around (at the national press release event), he said the embargo lifts 10/3. So will get plenty of reviews and driving experience descriptions, and hopefully, a lot more detail about what comes on which trims.'

Heck, maybe even Honda will put that up online!

brian125

5 Favorite things 2018 Honda Accord

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=2018+accord+news&view=detail&mid=8DA1170026B01A5BB6FB8DA1170026B01A5BB6FB&FORM=EWREVC&mmscn=wnmp&ru=/search?q=2018+accord+news&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=EUPP_MDDCJS

andres3

Not bad on the reported 0-60 times, googling the A4 with the same horsepower and a German 2.0T, reported times of 5.2-5.7 seconds. Pretty close. Not equal, but close considering the automatic vs. DSG accounts for most of the difference I'd hypothesize.

explorerx4

I wonder why Honda is still using active noise control after adding all those sound deadening features to the new Accord?

benjaminh

explorerx4 said:

I wonder why Honda is still using active noise control after adding all those sound deadening features to the new Accord?

This is what Honda said for the current generation...."Included in all Accord models, Active Noise Control (ANC) and Active Sound Control (ASC) use two microphones, a processing unit and four speakers (integral to the Accord's audio system) to collect and interpret sound entering the cabin and then deliver an out-of-phase audio signal to cancel unwanted background noise...."

explorerx4

I know Accords have traditionally been noisy and a cancelling system added.
Why is it still built in if all those other measures were taken to quiet the car?

benjaminh

Accords were noisy through 2012. Starting with the 2013 model year Accords became significantly quieter. I don't think they are quieter than a Camry, just the same level.

andres3

benjaminh said:

Accords were noisy through 2012. Starting with the 2013 model year Accords became significantly quieter. I don't think they are quieter than a Camry, just the same level.

I thought my '03 Coupe V6 was quiet. It did have rather skinny un-aggressive all-season tires.

suydam

They are both made to go together. My '13 Accord was much quieter than previous versions.

benjaminh

The Fast Lane Car compares 2018 Camry and 2018 Accord....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cujtEl69VQ

Mr_Shiftright

Well TFL seems to think the Accord is the winner here.

stickguy

I had no doubt it would be

brian125

benjaminh

With all the Excitement & Anticipation / reviews on the new 2018 Accord I have decided to go test drive A 2018 Genesis G80............................Tks

tbirdmarco

@brian125 how was your testdrive!

brian125

Going soon I'll let you know.@Marcothecarguy1986. I'm interested in the all new 2018 G80 sport 8sp, 3.3T, 365 HP. If the sport's suspension is to firm Don't want it. I'll keep my 2013 R-spec @429 h/p beast for that matter. Curious to see if the 4600 lb sport turbo handles better than its 3.8 version. The 18 sport still needs to shed a few more LBS. My 2013 Genesis's firm suspension was annoying at times on the bad NYC roads. Highway cruising is a pleasure along with its ultra quiet cabin. At speeds over 100mph ( open roads no one around ) you could hear a pin drop in the cabin. Fit, finish , amenities are bar none for the price. Hyundai's new 3 mode air suspension has made major strides in this model . Hyundai is knocking at the door at its European rivals but still not there yet IMHO. Bang for your buck thou................ Best in class

stickguy

Saw a G80 in showroom today. Not sure which spec, but shocked me that it was RWD!

brian125

My 2013 is rwd . The new 18, G80 sport is rwd with a 2k option for awd

stickguy

This is NJ. Seeing a RWD anything in stock is shocking. Would never find that at MB or BMW.

andres3

Elantra GT hatch seems a bit small to me; checked it out last night, the Sport model.

I liked the car, it drove well; I think it might be worth $20K if they'd go down that much.

However, it is small. Seems significantly smaller than a GTI. Even the Elantra sedan seemed longer.

It is narrow, the seats are narrow and tight, but like I said, the car drove well and I liked how the engine performed and sounded.

I don't think it will satisfy people looking for GTI-like performance, but for those satisfied with a notch less performance it should do nicely.

I can see how people get an Audi vibe from the interior. I believe they tried to copy the A3, however, it's not as good as that. It is good for a Hyundai though.

stickguy

We found it wide enough (the bump elbows test), and seats too just fine. It is 9" shorter than the sedan, at 170", so definitely longer than a GTI. I found it plenty quick, and handled well. Certainly competed with the GLI I just drove (the sedan sport Elantra) in performance.

Only real issue is they overpriced the top package that gives the pano roof. If the price was same as Elantra sedan loaded up, much better value. And if the sedan had the same power seats, I would be getting one.

benjaminh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcBT0fGqdFs

benjaminh

Walk around of the 2018 Accord Sport 6MT 2.0T....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_uwOcwp91Y

stickguy

It seems like every sport I have seen in one of these has been the 2.0. I recall reading someplace that the 2.0 would be loaded now, but I think the 1.5 still on the stripped side. I know a 2.0 will be out of reach. though it is kind of sharp.

stickguy

though the odd wheels and too skinny tires detract from the car. Interior and dash look nice, as do the seats.

Embargo gets lifted Monday, so real reviews (with driving impressions) should be coming from all over, so I suspect Honda will release the build and price page too finally.

benjaminh

Someone over at driveaccord.net has posted a window sticker for a 2018 Accord.

Mpg numbers for the 1.5T are 30 in the city, 38 on the highway, combined 33. That's an increase of 3 in the city from the current Accord, 2 on the highway, and +3 overall. Beats the Camry LE by 1 mpg. But, essentially the same.

prices: 2018 Accord 1.5 Touring $33,800
LX: 23,570
EXL 29,970

Those are without destination, but are coming in lower than I guessed.

2017 Accord LX with Sensing is $24,255. In other words, if this is accurate there's a $685 price cut on the base model with Sensing for the 2018 Accord. The window sticker posted at driveaccord.net looks real, but....

stickguy

So if really without destination the EXL is about 31K, so an EX running 29K? They better start with large discounts, or I definitely will not be getting one!

benjaminh

The 2017 Accord EXL CVT without Sensing is $28,920 before destination. Sensing is a $1000 option, making it 29,920

The 2018 Accord EXL list for 29,970. $50 increase. Mmm. What. Might consider one of these. That's a good price for all of the improvements, power, and new features they've put into it.

benjaminh

The price of the 2018 EX CVT with sensing hasn't leaked yet, as far as I know, but based on the EXL it's going to be a small price increase. Maybe it'll be close to the current list of $27,630, but then you have to add destination of c. $900

benjaminh

2018 Accord 2.0T 10AT beats 2017 Accord V-6 in short drag race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spIczRuboEc

stickguy

was expecting it to be a quick car. The 1.5T is not going to be any slouch either.

benjaminh

Now that we have the pricing, equipment, and mpg info for the 2018 Accord LX, it's possible to do a preliminary comparison with its long-time competitor, the 2018 Camry LE. These are both the entry-level versions of these midsize sedans, completely redesigned and significantly improved.

The 2018 Accord LX has a slightly lower msrp at $23,570 compared to the 2018 Camry LE at $24,000 flat.

Both now have 17" tires with nice alloy wheels as standard, 225/50R17 on the Accord vs. P215/55VR17 on the Camry. This is an improvement over last year, where the Accord LX got P205/65HR16 tires, which was adequate but not impressive in terms of performance. It was just an economy tire. So now even the base Accord and Camry have decent sneakers to start out with.

In terms of mpg, it's almost a tie. The 2018 Accord is now best-in-class with an estimated combined mpg of 33, while the 2018 Camry is rated at 32. Camry and Accord are now pulling away from all of the rest of the midsize cars on this measure, with the Passat's 27 mpg more typical, with the base Ford Fusion down the list at 25. But it's maybe not as big a deal as it seems, as you'll save only about $350 a year in gas by buying a entry-level Accord over an entry-level Fusion. But over 5 years that's still $1750, which is a fair number of dinners out. But, of course, you'd probably pay about that much less for the Fusion when comparably equipped, or maybe less, and so....

In terms of standard equipment, it's mixed—sometimes the 2018 Camry LE beats the 2018 Accord LX, and sometimes it's the other way around. The Camry has a standard power driver's seat, while the Accord's is manual. But Accord has push-button start as standard, while the Camry doesn't. Accord also gets low-speed adaptive cruise, which the Camry lacks. The Camry LE comes standard with Toyota's Entune built-in navi, etc. Entune is by every account inferior to AndroidAuto, but the 2018 Accord LX doesn't get AndroidAuto. Accord does get standard lighted vanity mirrors, which the Camry lacks, but overall it seems the Camry LE is a slight winner here.

One of the biggest differences in the cars is in terms of the engine, and it seems like the Accords standard 1.5 turbo is likely to be more fun to drive than the Camry's 2.4. The 2018 Camry is slightly slower than the 2017 Camry or the 2017 Accord. Camry's 7.9 seconds 0-60 is certainly fast enough, but it looks like 2018 Accord will be at least half a second faster.

Some hate CVTs, which the Accord has, but that's probably why it gets slightly better mpg. But for that reason some may feel that the Camry's 8-speed auto is better.

Finally, for interior room and trunk space, the Accord is the winner. If you almost never use that space, then it doesn't matter, but as we have two kids and lots of luggage on trips, the Accord's 16.7 cubic foot trunk sounds better than Camry's 15.1 cubic foot one. And rear leg room in the Camry is certainly good enough at 38 inches, but Accord's 40.4 is almost what you get in brand-new Lincoln Continental.

benjaminh

In terms of handling, we still don't know, but my guess is that as usual the 2018 Accord is going to handle better and be more fun to drive than the 2018 Camry, even though the Camry has obviously gone from about last place in that measure to pretty darn good for an entry-level midsize sedan.

benjaminh

Trim level equipment for 2018 Accord. For Blind-spot monitoring, it's on Sport 2.0 and above, as well as EX 1.5 and above....

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=1333668&page_number=2

sda

It puzzles me that Honda insists on not making a leather wrapped steering wheel standard on the EX, yet the less expensive Sport has it. Looks like the EX loses Homelink, and turn signal repeaters on the door mirrors but picks up heated front seats and a lot of safety equipment. Looks impressive overall.

benjaminh

2018 Accord LX gets good tires, Sensing, push-button start, illuminated steering wheel controls, lockable glove box, LED headlights, Security system, etc, none of which the 2017 Accord LX has.

Sport 1.5 adds chrome dual exhaust, LED foglights, spoiler, leather steering wheel, metal pedals, split folding rear seat, leather wrapped steering wheel, 12-way power driver's seat, 180-watt 6-speaker stereo, 8-inch display, CarPlay/AndroidAuto, bigger tires, upgraded suspension, etc. appearance stuff, etc.

EX has XM/HD radio, heated front seats, moonroof, active shutter grill, heated mirrors, smart entry, blind-spot monitoring, etc.

EXL adds leather memory seats, HomeLine, Auto-dimming rearview mirror, 450-watt premium audio with 10 speakers, etc.

benjaminh

sda said:

It puzzles me that Honda insists on not making a leather wrapped steering wheel standard on the EX, yet the less expensive Sport has it. Looks like the EX loses Homelink, and turn signal repeaters on the door mirrors but picks up heated front seats and a lot of safety equipment. Looks impressive overall.

I know you know this, but it's because they want you to buy a higher trim. If you want leather, you need EXL.

PS In 10th gear at 60 mph the auto for the 2.0 runs at 1400 rpm.

benjaminh

The max boost pressure on the Accord's 1.5 turbo is 34.9PSI. Compare that to the 16.5 psi max in the 1.5 turbo in the Civic. Bigger difference than I thought it would be.