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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,863
    Those extra few inches of height make the difference.
    I have 2 fingers of room over my head.
    Sometimes power seats cannot be dropped as low as manual seats due to the power mechanism.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • podpod Posts: 176
    The exhaust system on my 2000 mercury sable needed no attention for the 156K miles (and ten years) that I owned it. I was amazed but my metalurgist friend said that with the new stainless materials such longevity should be routine. A prior ford ranger truck rusted out every 2-3 years (1988 model). Things have changed. The Sable was not an expensive car for its time ($20K). It similar to the spark plug story. I did not have to touch the wiring or plugs in that Sable ever. Engineers are our friends and keep improving the materials. I wish they could improve the longevity of tires which become ever more expensive as the tire size creeps up. I find that in order to have confidence in my tires they need replacement every 40K miles or so. It becomes a significant maintenance expense. But the tires are the most important safety element in most driving conditions.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Yes, there is little exhaust system work to be done these days for most cars. We had a 1986 Plymouth Horizon that, like your Ranger, needed a new exhaust system about every 3 years. But a 1989 Voyager never had any exhaust work for the 12 years and 120K miles that we had it. We have a 1997 Windstar that also still has had no exhaust system work.

    A 1991 Sentra that we had bought used from a relative did require a new exhaust system a couple times in about 15 years.
  • The 6 S GT is the only car that passed it's second test drive with me out of all the cars that I can afford. Every other car I test drive completely failed by the second drive. The CC failed because it's light steering and the Sonata Turbo just isn't all that exciting. The 6 is every bit as exciting the second time as the first time.

    So now I'm asking a friend whose dad works for Mazda to see if he can get a S-Plan pin for m. Hopefully he comes through. I know there is a $500 dollar rebate if I finance with Mazda but is there a loyalty rebate available for the 2011 6? Also, does anybody know what kind of financing rates is available with the college grad program?
  • rdm925rdm925 Posts: 46
    Hi, I'm glad you are choosing the Mazda 6. We just brought a 2011 3s Sport Sedan for our daughter and I drive a 076i 5-door. I'm not sure about the 2011 6, but there was a $500 loyalty rebate on the 2011 3s and we qualify for the s-plan. Also, there was some special financing available. Good Luck and enjoy purchasing your new 6s. Zoom-Zoom :shades:
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,134
    I was there on Saturday. Ford had the largest and most impressive displays. GM was large but more muted.

    Lots of crowds in general. Hyundai was packed. Ford was crowded. GM was somewhat less so.

    Some random car impressions:

    Volt - I didn't really like the taillights on this one. Car seemed ok.
    Malibu - showing its age. Some cheapness inside. Newer GMs look better.
    Regal - Very nice interior. A big step up from older GM models, even the Malibu
    Cruze - Very nice interior. This is a really nice looking compact sedan. IMHO a lot better than the new cheapened Jetta, and I was previously a VW fan.
    Sonata - Very nice. Interior is pretty good; I'd say the two GMs listed above were better. Styling looks good.
    New Elantra - just like a smaller Sonata. Outside looks great. Head room a bit lacking in the back. Interior not as "boy racer" looking as it appeard in photos.
    Fusion - nice car, a bit more bland when compared to Sonata and Regal. Ford needs to keep improving here.
    New Jetta - Still pretty nice, but interior is bland and not much style in front. Nice seats. Everybody is moving away from the complex trunk hinges to the gooseneck design.
    A4 - Nice car; compact cockpit. Even the A4 I believe is now goosneck hinge. But expensive.
    C300 - I really like the interior of this car, as well as the exterior looks. But expensive. I don't know how it would drive, of course.
    BMW 5 series - Nice but I just can't see paying in the $50's for this car.
    Infiniti EX - really cute and nice A3-style hatch, but wow, costs in the mid $40's. Too expensive.
    New Corolla - on display, says it is a prototype. Much less bland than previously, but still no competition on looks to the current Civic or new Elantra. Toyota is really looking like it is for old folks.
    Forte - very nice looking car but I would still not buy this nameplate.
    Camry - had not sat in one so checked it out. Definitely not up to the interiors of other comparable makes. Pretty boring.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 421
    No Optima Hybrid sighting? I'm curious how it looks in person.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Hey everyone-

    Today, my in-laws picked up a new 2011 MKZ Hybrid from the Ford/Lincoln dealer in my dealer group. They traded in their 2004 Nissan Maxima SL, which they loved.

    They opted for a Tuxedo Black one with the dark charcoal interior and wood grain accents. As for options, they got the the Rapid Spec 202A Package which includes navigation, THX audio system, blind spot system, adaptive HID lights, back-up camera, SYNC and many other features.

    I think the interior quality is phenomenal. It is really put together well and the instrument cluster and nav interface is top notch. I like how the gauge cluster has a couple different formats of which you can alter to change what you are viewing. The THX II sound system is simply amazing.

    As for the drive, it is a very comfortable drive, and the hybrid/gas engine transition is rather seamless. Observed FE on the initial test drive was 37mpg. With the way my in-laws drive, I suspect they will get getting around 39 as an average, similar to what owners of Fusion hybrids are getting.

    I'm not a huge fan of the chrome clad wheels, and I think the exterior could be a little better, but, overall, it is a very impressive car.

    What I found to be very interesting was the hybrid version of the MKZ does not cost any more than a regular V6 MKZ FWD. I think that is a smart move by Lincoln. The price they paid was obviously heavily discounted. The perks of being in the business!

    Overall, I really like this car. The technology is outstanding, drive is nice and FE is fantastic. I believe my in-laws will be very pleased.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Pretty sure they will be. Ford has come a long way and is making some outstanding cars that are starting to blow Toyota out of the water now. Our 2010 Fusion Sport has been troublefree for 26k miles now, my Flex has 10200 trouble free miles. My only complaint on the Flex, it could use better brakes for something with the kind of power it has, the Fusion, no complaints at all. If the Quality in the Fusion is high, then it stands for good reason the Lincoln will have even higher quality.
  • steine13steine13 Posts: 2,562
    edited December 2010
    I know I'm late to the party, but I just found this discussion.
    Surely this dead horse can take another poke...

    I tend to be on the "new" side of the New Vs. Used argument, for a number of reasons... but it depends very much on the model, and on your luck and skill, probably in that order.

    And certainly, the cheapest cars I've run have been used clunkers, but I've also bought into trouble, and I've had a couple very inexpensive new cars. As in less than ten cents per mile to drive a new car.

    There are some models that one should clearly buy new, or just not buy. My aplogies to those who've seen this before; the numbers aren't up to date, but the concept is:

    Cheers -Mathias
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Is anyone else having trouble seeing the entire message in the window provided? Maybe it's just me and my old version of IE.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    It would be interesting to see a similar graph for a GM or Ford vehicle.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    Sounds like it may be time to upgrade, grad. Have you stopped by here yet?
    Edmunds Redesign Feedback
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I've not been there (hadn't seen it). I knew you guys would help me in a pinch.

    I'm at work, and for some reason, our tech runs circa 2003. IE 6, no Flash Player, and no ability to change that without administrator capabilities. BOO. :sick:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Try a flash drive with one of the browsers from here:

    I use their portable chrome on a flash drive myself.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 4,179
    The new format works on the above mentioned browsers as well as Opera & Chrome. Try upgrading the IE if that's your browser of choice. I personally use Firefox for!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2009 Nissan Versa SL Hatch (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 421
    The short version:

    Optima has more features and has a "sportier more confident demeanor" without sacrificing compliance and comfort. Sonata was a hair faster and lighter, while taking more of a lexus/camry approach to insulating the ride. -comparison-test.html

    "True, it's been a veritable five-month love fest with our long-term Sonata GLS. We appreciate its segment-leading styling, its relaxed and generously sized interior, its many useful features, plus its long-haul comfort and affordability. Then we drove the 2011 Kia Optima. It made us realize for the first time that the Sonata's ride qualities border on floaty and that the Sonata's light-colored cloth seating was neither all that supportive, nor resilient to the grime that comes with everyday use. And if we didn't have an aversion to the Sonata's steering before, we certainly do now that we know it can be tuned like the Optima's.

    The Optima EX manages to possess a ride as compliant as the Sonata in addition to a sportier feel and a more confident demeanor. Its more supportive leather seating lends a sense of solidity and there's a sturdiness and poise when piloting the Optima down the freeway or on a twisting road that we never have observed in our Sonata. Some of this is owed to the steering and some to suspension, but we like it all together.

    In contrast, the 2011 Hyundai Sonata feels as if its primary goal is to carry its passengers with as little sensation of traveling as possible — which is not a bad thing, just a different approach to tuning the chassis. Lexus has found success with this ideal. Then again, Mercedes-Benz has recently earned more acclaim sloughing off the old ways and offering a more connected, more engaging dynamic without sacrificing comfort, too. "

    "We often see comparison tests like this one produce point spreads in the five-to-10-point range. With a commanding 16.3-point margin of victory over the reigning champ, the Kia Optima EX beat the 2011 Hyundai Sonata GLS at its own game; proving that it is a truly a car worth your consideration — just like the 2011 Hyundai Sonata did when it was introduced

    Our clever scheme to compare the same car with different wrappers became a rather significant victory for one and a bit of a black eye for the other. It turns out there are enough differences in content, execution and dynamics to declare the Optima EX a completely different — and better — car than the Sonata GLS."
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Manson, WAPosts: 6,929
    after reading this '11 Kia Optima vs. '11 Hyundai Sonata comparo is say "I could've told ya so."

    But nothing I read in the above review would surprise me too much. I have always felt that Kia makes more of an enthusiast's automobile while Hyundai makes more of a Toyota-type rig for the masses.

    Take a look at total sales of cars and also the total number of comments on the Edmunds' Hyundai threads ta wade through vs. total comments on the Edmunds' Kia threads. Large difference overall. Kind of an odd point but more people tend to gravitate towards Hyundai vs. towards Kia. And reviews like the one above don't explain why that ought to be.

    I prefer Kia to Hyundai, I've bought two new Kia's and loved them both, and I would venture a guess I always will prefer Kia. The only two Hyundai's I have ever test-drove and have almost bought were a 1999 Hyundai Elantra sedan in a burnt orange color that Hyundai called red. Was a good rig, but Mrs.iluvmysephia1 went through the roof with disdain at the thought of that one. She did go along on the test drive. :blush:

    The other two test drives were of the 2003 Hyundai Tiburon 5-speed sportsters. I enjoyed my test drives but we primarily always want and need 4-door rigs and...Mrs.iluvmysephia1 wasn't down wid this vehicle at all.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I think Hyundai has completely overcome its bad reputation from its early days of selling crappy cars, while Kia has not yet done so. While Kia cars may be fine today, there are many ex-owners with stories of how bad cars such as, well, the Sephia were.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Wouldn't a comparo of the Sonata GLS to the Optima LX be more fair, or Sonata Limited to Optima EX? The comments re the Optima's leather seats vs. Sonata's cloth are one example that this was a mis-match. Also, the Limited has larger rims, which could have helped the Sonata in the handling department.

    I wonder which car I would like better: a base trim Sonata with its cloth seats, or the higher-trim Optima with its leather seats and other goodies. Duh.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,381
    not up on the Kia nomenclature, but is the EX equivilant to the Sonata SE? If so, maybe the SE has the firmer suspension and tighter handling missing from the GLS.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    That's true, the SE has a sport-tuned suspension. But the SE is not available with a leather interior--the Optima EX is. If anything, it would be the Optima SX that is the "sport" trim for the Optima.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 421
    Yes absolutely the cars were not evenly matched in terms of add ons I agree. They admit as much. Better to compare it to an SE or Limited. Still, all told the Optima does have a number of features the Sonata does not. Heated rear seats, cooled front seats, panoramic sunroof, cooled glove box, Heated steering wheel, HID lights, LED tail lights, push button start (?) and eventually the UVO system. I think none of those are available on Sonata, correct me if I'm wrong though.

    The steering should be a pretty straight up comparison, and the interior layout and dash materials. Ride quality you could use the Sonata SE although the Optima SX and turbo EX should be even more sport tuned with larger breaks than the base EX.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    I am pretty sure the Sonata (Limited) has heated rear seats and push button start (even the Elantra has those). Not cooled front seats though, or the panoramic sunroof etc.

    I saw some Optimas at my local Hyundai/Kia dealer the other day, and the one in Dark Cherry was especially sharp. And it was an LX! It appeared to have standard alloys, and good looking ones at that. Probably everything I'd need for about $21k list.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 421
    You're probably right on those options I keep forgetting the details.

    I'm in the market for the SX but I really think the LX and EX are such tremendous values. Definitely sharp looking on paper. I have yet to sit in one but the local dealer called me tonight to say they are in. Gotta go check em out!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The more I look at the Optima, the uglier it gets. I saw one in person, and the way the interior is designed just does not do it for me. I prefer the styling of the Sonata by a long shot.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    I guess that validates Hyundai/Kia's decision to make the Sonata and Optima look much different. Some will prefer the Sonata's "fluidic" styling, and some the Optima's more European lines. And they'll sell lots of both. I think both are good looking, but in different ways. The only thing I don't like much on the Optima's exterior is the shape of the window behind the rear doors. But maybe that's the favorite stylistic detail for others.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 421
    The new Optima is easily the best looking sedan in the segment.
  • If you can look past the pizza pie wheel covers and bowtie pasta grill.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 421
    I like the Optima grill very much, but I also like the Sonata grill which many find "polarizing". The Optima front is a little too busy, but I still say it's easily the best looking car in the segment and will wear well over time. The wheels can be replaced on the SX so I'm not worried about them.
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