The problem with most tech is that it works great until it doesn't, then it fails completely. It's not like you can watch your car's "tech gauge" and see the "tech pressure" dropping from 80 to 12, or the "tech temperature" going into the red zone.
So I'm in Atlanta for a wedding. Picked up my "Full Sized" rental from HERTZ. A 2017 Camry SE with just over 31K miles on the clock. While I'm not in love with the car, it isn't half bad. It drives smoothly. It cruises very nicely on the highway. Big trunk. Comfy, supportive seats. I can definitely see the appeal. Being a rental, I'm sure it's 31K miles haven't been easy ones. The car is tight as a drum.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
before I got my Sonata, I cam close to pulling trigger on a 2015 Camry XLE. Every time I tried it, I was surprised by how nice it actually was. Probably would have gotten it if the sales person had not been out for a week so never called me back!
"....Upon entering each car, we notice the Camry’s doors (on all trims) close with a hollow, tinny whumma not unlike a wobbly metal shed. The Accord’s close with the sturdy, reassuring thud of a luxury car.....Honda’s simulated open-pore wood trim and brushed-metal accents seem borrowed from a higher class of car. The temperature controls use knobs backlit white until you turn them, at which point they turn blue or red, depending on the cold or hot direction of the dial. With the exception of trim pieces just below the door handles, the interior materials look and feel more premium than the Camry’s....
Settling in, the Camry XLE’s seats are leather, but they’re flat and offer little support beyond the adjustable lumbar. The seat-bottom cushion is also shorter than we’d like in terms of thigh support....the Accord seats are more comfortable and offer more lateral support, particularly when cornering....Additionally, every Accord trim level offers rear air vents, which are only available on higher Camry models....
Starting the engines, we find the Camry’s 2.5-liter four-cylinder both louder and coarser than the Accord’s 1.5-liter turbo-four.....If, for some reason, you were to line up the two cars for a drag race, you’d discover that they’re dead equal on performance despite their different personalities.....The Camry has a long brake pedal, which requires a bit too much travel and effort to get the braking power you want, but the car still stops from 60 mph in 122 feet. The Accord has much more bite in its brakes, but its rock-hard tires don’t have as much grip, so it needs 135 feet to stop from the same speed....
Holistically, though, there’s no comparison. The Accord is more comfortable, spacious, and luxurious than the Camry. It’s quieter, rides and handles better, and drives more elegantly. It offers superior technology with a more user-friendly interface. Simply put, Toyota built a better Camry, but Honda built a better car."
As reliable as Accord's are, I'd still take the Camry in the million mile challenge every time. If it wasn't for the Camry's history of being more bulletproof than the President's Cadillac's, I don't think it would be a huge seller. It has to be a lot of built up goodwill, reputation, and loyalty.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Those exceptions seem to come out of the Chrysler culture a lot. Come to think of it I can't think of anything in modern times where I hear as much bad press about unreliable junk than the FIAT/Chrysler/Alfa team.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
As reliable as Accord's are, I'd still take the Camry in the million mile challenge every time. If it wasn't for the Camry's history of being more bulletproof than the President's Cadillac's, I don't think it would be a huge seller. It has to be a lot of built up goodwill, reputation, and loyalty.
I think the majority of people keep their new midsize cars c. 3-8 years, and c. 30k-100k miles. But it's true that the Camry has been a reliable and long-lasting car in the past. Finally, turbos, even Honda turbos, seem unlikely to go more than about 200k or so, but maybe I'm wrong about that....
As reliable as Accord's are, I'd still take the Camry in the million mile challenge every time. If it wasn't for the Camry's history of being more bulletproof than the President's Cadillac's, I don't think it would be a huge seller. It has to be a lot of built up goodwill, reputation, and loyalty.
I think the majority of people keep their new midsize cars c. 3-8 years, and c. 30k-100k miles. But it's true that the Camry has been a reliable and long-lasting car in the past. Finally, turbos, even Honda turbos, seem unlikely to go more than about 200k or so, but maybe I'm wrong about that....
Dead turbo? Good excuse to put a bigger turbo on and tune it for more power! Now the engine or dual-clutch transmission dying is another story. Fortunately (knocking on wood), I've never had to see a bill for a new DSG transmission, though I've heard it can be a pretty penny!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
As reliable as Accord's are, I'd still take the Camry in the million mile challenge every time. If it wasn't for the Camry's history of being more bulletproof than the President's Cadillac's, I don't think it would be a huge seller. It has to be a lot of built up goodwill, reputation, and loyalty.
I think the majority of people keep their new midsize cars c. 3-8 years, and c. 30k-100k miles. But it's true that the Camry has been a reliable and long-lasting car in the past. Finally, turbos, even Honda turbos, seem unlikely to go more than about 200k or so, but maybe I'm wrong about that....
Every person I talked to about there old Camry's rave how reliable they have been .
I owned 2 Camry's years ago and they were bullet proof over the years.
I wonder if MT still slants its articles according to advertising revenue.
For them to call the cloth-seat Accord "more luxurious" than the Camry with leather seems a bit of a stretch. The entire article seems to be written from one point of view, that being to have the Accord come out on top.
I wonder if MT still slants its articles according to advertising revenue.
For them to call the cloth-seat Accord "more luxurious" than the Camry with leather seems a bit of a stretch. The entire article seems to be written from one point of view, that being to have the Accord come out on top.
Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.
Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.
All of the auto mags have been in love with Honda forever though, especially C&D with their ridiculous position on every generation of Accord. I'm not saying it's a bad car, not at all. I am simply saying the views published in those magazines cannot be trusted to be objective when it comes to Honda since there has always been a clear bias in their favor.
Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.
All of the auto mags have been in love with Honda forever though, especially C&D with their ridiculous position on every generation of Accord. I'm not saying it's a bad car, not at all. I am simply saying the views published in those magazines cannot be trusted to be objective when it comes to Honda since there has always been a clear bias in their favor.
So it's a vast conspiracy....? ok....
In the past when I've gotten a rental Camry, Fusion, Altima, Sonata, etc., there definitely are weak spots in those cars that the magazines point out. They aren't making this stuff up. Does the Accord have weak spots? Yes. As MT mentioned, the stopping distance was not good, and clearly inferior to the Camry.
Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.
All of the auto mags have been in love with Honda forever though, especially C&D with their ridiculous position on every generation of Accord. I'm not saying it's a bad car, not at all. I am simply saying the views published in those magazines cannot be trusted to be objective when it comes to Honda since there has always been a clear bias in their favor.
Maybe the Accord is just better. It's always seemed so to me.
Just read car and driver review last night. They picked some nits. The bigger issue is, they seem to be all testing niche model. C&D tested the 2.0 sport manual. Nice to read, not relevant for 99% of population. Hopefully will find an EX road test at some point!
Just read car and driver review last night. They picked some nits. The bigger issue is, they seem to be all testing niche model. C&D tested the 2.0 sport manual. Nice to read, not relevant for 99% of population. Hopefully will find an EX road test at some point!
They know C&D and other mags will give the car a good review if they send it to them equipped Sport 2.0 6MT. Eventually they'll do a "short take" on the Touring and invite an EX to a "Mid Sized Sedan Comparo."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
A lot of people used to claim C&D was beholden to BMW; you don't hear that much these days as the only BMWs C&D has really liked lately are the 2 Series and the X1.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Well, Car and Driver also gives the new Accord a very positive review. As does Automobile magazine, etc., etc. It's not just Motor Trend.
All of the auto mags have been in love with Honda forever though, especially C&D with their ridiculous position on every generation of Accord. I'm not saying it's a bad car, not at all. I am simply saying the views published in those magazines cannot be trusted to be objective when it comes to Honda since there has always been a clear bias in their favor.
Perhaps if they change their name to "The New Car & Driver" and "The New Road & Track" and "The New Motor Trend" it'll be OK to trust them again?
Certainly some of the biased employees that wrote positively about the Accord in the 80's have retired or moved onto other employment elsewhere. At least, that's the reason we've been given to trust the Car companies that may have burned us in the past?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Not IMO bias, implying unfair. Just that the Accord is the type of car that appeals to them, along with the masses.
They used to love the civic, then when that car got bad, they trashed it. But like the new model. They also fawn all over the Mazda 6, but since it doesn't sell, no one cares or cries bias.
I think it's actually worse now, as the current-day writers are the ones who had a clapped-out '90 Civic with a coffee-can muffler when they first got licensed, and think it was the best car ever.
I think it's actually worse now, as the current-day writers are the ones who had a clapped-out '90 Civic with a coffee-can muffler when they first got licensed, and think it was the best car ever.
Those 90's Civics were pretty darn great! I wished I'd of had one, sans the coffee can exhaust tips.
The closest I got was my wife's first car actually, the '92 Civic DX Hatchback with a 4-speed Auto, but it was already 10 years old with 165K miles, we only had it 2 years (and it did its job well).
If I had convinced my father (and myself) to get a Civic in the 90's, then I wouldn't have had the Neon experience. I wonder which Dodge I might have been tempted by in that alternate reality and timeline? Maybe that Magnum Wagon with a Hemi.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Every person, reviewer, editor, blogger and test driver has their own biases. It's unavoidable. You should always take any report or review with a grain of salt. C&D has always been biased to sporty vehicles. MT is biased to whoever spends the most in advertising.
I also don't think these reviews have much influence over what people actually buy which is one reason Ford stopped catering to their whims a few years ago (and ruffled a bunch of feathers in the process TTAC ).
Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.
Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.
They also both have good resale value. No doubt for their reputation to reach extremely high miles without dipping into your wallet.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Basically they give the large majority of the buying public the exact attributes they want, and have for decades. And that brand value goes a long way.
Speaking of the Camry, I spotted a Gen I Camry hatchback a week or two ago. Looked to be in remarkably good condition for a car 30+ years old. The driver probably has owned it since new.
The one 2018 Camry I might still be interested in, if it was available at the right price, is the hybrid model. Gets a good review from Alex on Autos....But the lack of AndroidAuto is probably a no-go for our family.
This might be annoying to some. It does seem over the top. I mean, maybe the best sedan for under $35,000, but otherwise no....So, it does perhaps back up the bias idea. This does fit my theory—that Honda made the 2.0 with the six speed manual in part for drivers, but in part for Car and Driver, and specifically to try to try to keep the Accord's place on C&Ds 10 Best list. Looks like it worked.
Camry and Accord both have good reliability and sell well. The comparison stops there in my opinion because they are just different cars. I think it is hard to say one is better than the other. It really just depends on what the buyer is looking for. I think Ford had a potential winner with Fusion, but just let it get stale.
They also both have good resale value. No doubt for their reputation to reach extremely high miles without dipping into your wallet.
This might be annoying to some. It does seem over the top. I mean, maybe the best sedan for under $35,000, but otherwise no....So, it does perhaps back up the bias idea.
Well, the term best can often mean best value, or best pound for pound, dollar for dollar.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
As Andres says, best in what? If it doesn't get big dealer packs and mark-ups, considering resale and total cost of ownership, maybe the Accord will be a best value, but Camry buyers will argue the point. As for Cadillac, I'd like to see a head on between it's top sedan (not sure what nomenclature that wears these days) and a new Continental. Maybe throw in a well equipped Buick Lacrosse just for a value comparison.
"Kobe Steel admits it may have faked data on more products
....Kobe Steel customers from Ford Motor Co. to Toyota Motor Corp. to Subaru Corp. are investigating whether they used the suspect materials and whether safety has been compromised.
"If you look at previous instances with "companies initially saying it is a single, one-off, it has always expanded to more and more parts of the business," said Alexander Robert Medd, managing director at Bucephalus Research Partnership. "One usually finds out that it is reasonably systematic."
Different Ads, Different Ethnicities, Same Car - The New York Times By Sapna Maheshwari Published: Oct. 12, 2017 Toyota recently unveiled four ads for the same car — its flagship Camry. Each ad speaks to a different audience, offering a fascinating glimpse into how race and culture figure into American advertising today.
Different Ads, Different Ethnicities, Same Car - The New York Times By Sapna Maheshwari Published: Oct. 12, 2017 Toyota recently unveiled four ads for the same car — its flagship Camry. Each ad speaks to a different audience, offering a fascinating glimpse into how race and culture figure into American advertising today.
AKA: Vanilla in four different flavors...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Comments
There are always exceptions.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/accord/2018/2018-honda-accord-15t-vs-2018-toyota-camry-25-comparison-review/
"....Upon entering each car, we notice the Camry’s doors (on all trims) close with a hollow, tinny whumma not unlike a wobbly metal shed. The Accord’s close with the sturdy, reassuring thud of a luxury car.....Honda’s simulated open-pore wood trim and brushed-metal accents seem borrowed from a higher class of car. The temperature controls use knobs backlit white until you turn them, at which point they turn blue or red, depending on the cold or hot direction of the dial. With the exception of trim pieces just below the door handles, the interior materials look and feel more premium than the Camry’s....
Settling in, the Camry XLE’s seats are leather, but they’re flat and offer little support beyond the adjustable lumbar. The seat-bottom cushion is also shorter than we’d like in terms of thigh support....the Accord seats are more comfortable and offer more lateral support, particularly when cornering....Additionally, every Accord trim level offers rear air vents, which are only available on higher Camry models....
Starting the engines, we find the Camry’s 2.5-liter four-cylinder both louder and coarser than the Accord’s 1.5-liter turbo-four.....If, for some reason, you were to line up the two cars for a drag race, you’d discover that they’re dead equal on performance despite their different personalities.....The Camry has a long brake pedal, which requires a bit too much travel and effort to get the braking power you want, but the car still stops from 60 mph in 122 feet. The Accord has much more bite in its brakes, but its rock-hard tires don’t have as much grip, so it needs 135 feet to stop from the same speed....
Holistically, though, there’s no comparison. The Accord is more comfortable, spacious, and luxurious than the Camry. It’s quieter, rides and handles better, and drives more elegantly. It offers superior technology with a more user-friendly interface. Simply put, Toyota built a better Camry, but Honda built a better car."
You: Honda Accord.
Me: 2018 Subaru Impreza 2.0i 5-speed stick.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Those exceptions seem to come out of the Chrysler culture a lot. Come to think of it I can't think of anything in modern times where I hear as much bad press about unreliable junk than the FIAT/Chrysler/Alfa team.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I owned 2 Camry's years ago and they were bullet proof over the years.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
For them to call the cloth-seat Accord "more luxurious" than the Camry with leather seems a bit of a stretch. The entire article seems to be written from one point of view, that being to have the Accord come out on top.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
In the past when I've gotten a rental Camry, Fusion, Altima, Sonata, etc., there definitely are weak spots in those cars that the magazines point out. They aren't making this stuff up. Does the Accord have weak spots? Yes. As MT mentioned, the stopping distance was not good, and clearly inferior to the Camry.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Certainly some of the biased employees that wrote positively about the Accord in the 80's have retired or moved onto other employment elsewhere. At least, that's the reason we've been given to trust the Car companies that may have burned us in the past?
They used to love the civic, then when that car got bad, they trashed it. But like the new model. They also fawn all over the Mazda 6, but since it doesn't sell, no one cares or cries bias.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
The closest I got was my wife's first car actually, the '92 Civic DX Hatchback with a 4-speed Auto, but it was already 10 years old with 165K miles, we only had it 2 years (and it did its job well).
If I had convinced my father (and myself) to get a Civic in the 90's, then I wouldn't have had the Neon experience. I wonder which Dodge I might have been tempted by in that alternate reality and timeline? Maybe that Magnum Wagon with a Hemi.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I also don't think these reviews have much influence over what people actually buy which is one reason Ford stopped catering to their whims a few years ago (and ruffled a bunch of feathers in the process TTAC ).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
....Kobe Steel customers from Ford Motor Co. to Toyota Motor Corp. to Subaru Corp. are investigating whether they used the suspect materials and whether safety has been compromised.
"If you look at previous instances with "companies initially saying it is a single, one-off, it has always expanded to more and more parts of the business," said Alexander Robert Medd, managing director at Bucephalus Research Partnership. "One usually finds out that it is reasonably systematic."
http://www.autonews.com/article/20171011/OEM10/171019856/kobe-steel-admits-it-may-have-faked-data-on-more-products
Honda apparently also used Kobe steel.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/12/business/media/toyota-camry-ads-different-ethnicities.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Different Ads, Different Ethnicities, Same Car - The New York Times
By Sapna Maheshwari
Published: Oct. 12, 2017
Toyota recently unveiled four ads for the same car — its flagship Camry. Each ad speaks to a different audience, offering a fascinating glimpse into how race and culture figure into American advertising today.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive