Midsize Sedans 2.0

berri

Gas mileage is pretty good on those new Sonata's. I think part of that is that the Fusion is a heavier vehicle?

explorerx4

I know what I get for mileage in my Fusion, but the Camry I rented got about 6 mpg below what the computer read. Couldn't figure out how to reset the mileage readout in the Sonata.

ab348

Rolled thru the Toyota dealer lot just for laffs today and they finally have some 2018 Camrys in stock though they also have a bunch more 2017s than they did the last time I was there and they still have the same single new 2016 I saw there a while back with a whopping $4000 discount. The new Camry looks pretty unattractive up front as others have noted, but Toyota has uglied up most of their models equally - there were a lot of new Corollas there that have a new and unattractive nose too. For me the worst remains the little subcompact sedan - Yaris I think? - that has a really bad front end.

benjaminh

Yeah, definitely some weird styling trends out there. The 2018 Accord is also weird. Not as bad as a Yaris, but....

berri

Frankly, fugly cars loaded with not ready for prime time tech is one reason I've stayed out of the new car market.

brian125

What new midsize vehicles have the nicest lines ? My 2 picks are

1- Mazda6
2- Optima

akirby

I think the Fusion is still the best looking midsized sedan even though it's going on 6 years old.

Mr_Shiftright

ab348 said:

Rolled thru the Toyota dealer lot just for laffs today and they finally have some 2018 Camrys in stock though they also have a bunch more 2017s than they did the last time I was there and they still have the same single new 2016 I saw there a while back with a whopping $4000 discount. The new Camry looks pretty unattractive up front as others have noted, but Toyota has uglied up most of their models equally - there were a lot of new Corollas there that have a new and unattractive nose too. For me the worst remains the little subcompact sedan - Yaris I think? - that has a really bad front end.

The entire sub-compact market is dying right now.

benjaminh

I'm not sure, but it might be that the weird styling of the new Accord is facing a little bit of resistance in the marketplace. My local dealer has gotten in c. 21 of the new 2018 Accords since they were introduced almost a week ago, and I think they've only sold 1. I realize they still have 50 of the leftover 2017s to get rid of, but still that seems like a slow pace.

Potentially a 1996 Taurus issue? Good car hurt by weird look?

benjaminh

This video of the 2018 Accord EX has a demonstration of the "active grill shutters" at around the 9 minute mark....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1TwclOww_E&t=12s

Mr_Shiftright

There's nothing new under the sun. The mechanism activates at about the 7-second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5nfFSBcyyw

ab348

That looks like it came out of someone's darkroom.

I remember when I was using our '74 Maverick to commute to university in the mid-70s it never really got warm in the winter and the cabin was always cold. I took one of dad's real estate for sale signs, cut it down, and wired it over the front of the rad. Worked well until spring when I forgot it was still there.

brian125

benjaminh said:

I'm not sure, but it might be that the weird styling of the new Accord is facing a little bit of resistance in the marketplace. My local dealer has gotten in c. 21 of the new 2018 Accords since they were introduced almost a week ago, and I think they've only sold 1. I realize they still have 50 of the leftover 2017s to get rid of, but still that seems like a slow pace.

Potentially a 1996 Taurus issue? Good car hurt by weird look?

Ben............Where is pricing in KY on 18 Accords ?

benjaminh

brian125 said:

benjaminh said:

I'm not sure, but it might be that the weird styling of the new Accord is facing a little bit of resistance in the marketplace. My local dealer has gotten in c. 21 of the new 2018 Accords since they were introduced almost a week ago, and I think they've only sold 1. I realize they still have 50 of the leftover 2017s to get rid of, but still that seems like a slow pace.

Potentially a 1996 Taurus issue? Good car hurt by weird look?

Ben............Where is pricing in KY on 18 Accords ?

The largest dealer in KY, Honda World of Louisville, seems to be offering $800 off mrsp on most 2018 Accords.

The dealer in Lexington was at first offering c. $2k off list, but now has backed off to about half of that.

But so far it doesn't seem like many are selling. And I know it's only been on sale for a week, but I've yet to see one on the road.

How are prices in your neck of the woods?

suydam

Very early days yet. We won’t know till the ‘17s get cleared out.

Michaell

suydam said:

Very early days yet. We won’t know till the ‘17s get cleared out.

I'll second that ... dealers may not get real aggressive on the '18's until the '17 inventory is mostly gone.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, why would they?

brian125

MSRP In NY / NJ / CT / PA right now with limited stock . I would assume if dealer had a 2018 sale in my area they may discount up to 1k off sticker.

benjaminh

I looked up the retail price of the tires for the 2018 Accord Sport. They are V-rated Goodyears, 235/40/19, and they have a list price at my local dealer of $201 a tire. Anyway, a pretty good tire for a car with a $26k msrp.

brian313

I got civic seat cover very nice fit my car.

here is seat cover

backy

No mystery as to why the subcompact market is dying. A nicely-equipped subcompact cost little less than a compact or even a mid-sized car, and there isn't that much difference in fuel economy. So for example, why buy a new 2018 Accent, which looks like a shrunken Elantra, when you can get a real Elantra for a few bucks more and get equal or better fuel economy and a nicer car with more passenger and cargo room? Or for a little more than that, the Sonata, with little FE penalty? And to top it off, automakers like Hyundai do stupid things like kills of the hatchback variants of their small cars, when the hatchback is the best format for a small car, IMO.

BTW it's a shame Toyota slapped such an ugly front clip on their version of the Mazda2. Maybe that's just part of Toyota's DNA now, putting ugly front ends on vehicles. The Yaris iA looks like an nifty little car, with a nice set of standard features, if you close your eyes whenever approaching the car from the front.

Mr_Shiftright said:

The entire sub-compact market is dying right now.

backy

FWIW, any car that's about the same size and price as the Accory is competition for them. (Actually, ANY vehicle that someone might buy instead of a new Accory is competition for them.) Thus the Stinger 2.0T is competition (if you don't mind RWD), as are vehicles such as used luxury mid-sized cars. Some people would rather buy a gently used luxury car than a new mid-sized family car. A buddy of mine recently did that, bought a low-miles ES for his wife instead of a Passat that was about the same price.

suydam

Many people don’t want larger vehicles. I think the subcompact market is moving towards CUVs instead. Still small but higher seating and more cargo capacity.

explorerx4

After reading some reviews, I guess the uber hype over the new Accord has worn off.

Michaell

I had a test drive of the 2018 Accord Sport today. Impressions to follow...

akirby

Saw the Autoweek 2018 Accord review this morning. I like the styling.

imidazol97

Michaell said:

I had a test drive of the 2018 Accord Sport today. Impressions to follow...

We're waiting!!!! ...

Michaell

Sorry, folks, for having to make you all wait. Was a long day, just now able to sit down at the computer and relay my thoughts and impressions of the 2018 Accord Sport.

I spent a majority of the day test driving cars with a couple of other Edmunds folks - @breld and @jpp5862. We eventually ended up at the Honda dealer, where they had 3 Accord Sports in inventory. A white one on the showroom floor, a black one that was out getting about $3K of accessories added on to it (body kit, etc.), and a blue one parked in front of the dealer. That last one was what I test drove. No options, equipped with the CVT.

Walking up to it from the side, the first thing you notice about it is the profile. While it is a sedan, the slope of the rear window and the integration into the trunk lid makes it look just like a hatchback. Specifically, it looked an awful lot like the A5 Sportback or A7 from Audi. The 19" wheels and tires don't look oversized. The blue paint was a little bright for me, personally. I think I'd prefer it in a darker, more muted color. Dual exhausts in the back, with the now ubiquitous chrome rings to pretty things up. This is a long, low, handsome vehicle in profile.

A lot has been said about the nose and grille treatment. At first glance, I wasn't impressed by it, but I suspect it would grow on me over time. The LED light treatment is very aggressive looking, and @jpp5862 suggested the whole nose reminded him of the current Mustang. After further contemplation, I'll have to agree. The strip above the grille is a metallic color, not the chrome on the other trim levels, and the hood does not go all the way to the front of the car. Overall, the exterior rates 7.5 out of 10 for me. But, styling is very subjective.

Inside, there are good and bad design elements. The first thing I noticed after sitting in the drivers seat is how low the hood feels. I've had both a '92 and a '93 Accord, and the low hood was a big part of the appeal of the driving experience, with the double wishbone suspension. I'm sure the 2018 doesn't have that fancy front suspension anymore, but the view out the windshield is quite sporty.

The Sport trim does not have a moonroof, and is equipped with power seats and a tilt/telescope steering wheel, so finding a comfortable seating position was not hard. Despite how low the car looks, it doesn't feel that way behind the wheel.

Unfortunately, like a lot of brands, Honda has gone with the "tablet on a dash" approach for the infotainment system. I'm not a big fan of the styling of this, but it appears that this is the wave of the future. It does include Apple / Android integration, which I have on my 2016 Jetta, and totally approve of. Dual zone climate control, heated seats and the usual complement of creature comforts round things out.

One feature I really liked was not apparent until you got the car in motion. The tachometer, on the left side of the IP, is configurable to show distance to empty and MPG, tire pressure info, and other nice to have information (I honestly don't remember the other menu choices). Interior rates 8 out of 10.

Finally, on the road we go. Had a nice mix of suburban roads - including a bit through an empty business park - and a short stretch of highway. One of the biggest reasons I was interested in this new Accord was the new 1.5T engine. I've got a 1.4T in my Jetta (150HP, 184 lb/ft of torque), and I really like the punch it provides, especially at 6000' altitude. The 1.5T makes 192HP and a similar amount of torque.

(let me pause to provide a bit of context on the test drive. about 20 minutes earlier I had test driven the 2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport, with a 1.6T engine that puts out 201HP, coupled with a 7-speed DSG transmission. The Elantra therefore has less weight and more HP than the Accord)

I'll be upfront - I really enjoyed the engine and CVT transmission. My wife's Outback also has a CVT, with software programming that makes it feel like a traditional automatic. The Accord has the same feel to it - the CVT was so unobtrusive I never noticed it. Lots of punch to the engine, especially when the turbo kicks in. Wasn't able to really punch it, but it's plenty quick.

And, the balance between the ride and handling is just about perfect. The Elantra had 18" wheels and tires, and was noticeably jittery on the roads of the test drive. None of that from the Accord - not sure if the Honda engineers just know their job better, but even with 1" larger wheels and tires, the Accord rode quite nicely.

I mentioned the deserted business park as part of the test drive. What was nice is that the road through it was not a straight line, but one with some curves to it. I took those turns, er, "spiritedly", and the handling was just as nice as the ride. Granted, I'm long past my boy racer days, but this car handled the corners with aplomb.

The highway stretch was also illuminating. The Elantra, on the same stretch of highway, had some pronounced tire hum. Not annoying, but present. The Accord was a tomb, by comparison. Engine, transmission, ride and handling get a 9 from me.

@jpp5862 rode in the back seat during the test drive and commented favorably on the room back there, along with the ride and handling.

Overall, I am very impressed with the new Accord. While the deals on them are pretty skinny at the moment - I was offered $1000 off sticker, with no negotiation - when I am serious about replacing the Jetta, I suspect the deals will be much better.

explorerx4

@michaell,
What were the tire pressures in the Elantra and Accord you drove?

stickguy

nice summary. Sounds like I would have been favorably impressed. If I wanted to stick with a bigger car. Pretty sure my wife would have liked it! Nice reference from the Elantra too, since I am starting to get a basis point on that one. Accord is much bigger, so not surprised it is smoother. Elantra does have some seriously good handling though, I do agree that the ride is a bit on the sporty side on rougher roads. I did not notice much tire noise though Actually pretty quiet inside. But let me get a few K miles on it to really decide!

At least my daughter loved it. so I will test drive the Accord at some point, and the upcoming small Genesis. Rdx if it comes out in the spring.

yes, I plan to go shopping again in 8 months! Relocating dependent of course (if we finally move, who knows)

berri

You guys need to go out next weekend and drive the new Camry so you can give your thoughts on the other big sedan seller. The different reviews I've read are all pretty up on the Honda Accord, but several seemed to vary a bit on the Camry. Some seemed to green light the Camry, others the Accord. Haven't really read a tie yet, but those are probably out there too. I'm sure many of us will be interested in your collective comparison.

jpp75

Excellent summary by @Michaell, although I have to give credit where credit is due and acknowledge that @breld first acknowledged the resemblance to the Mustang. I have to say in person the front end looks great, there are a lot of design elements that come together perfectly.

This is a large car, but in a good way. The interior volume reminded me of a Passat, plenty of room front and back. As @Michaell mentioned taking the curves in the business park was the perfect mix of comfort and sport. I told @Michaell that given how well the 1.5T performed the 2.0T must be a real hoot to drive.

I agree the iPad glued on the dash wasn't that appealing, I prefer a more integrated screen but overall it works well.

Honda has hit a home run with this new Accord.

Michaell

berri said:

You guys need to go out next weekend and drive the new Camry so you can give your thoughts on the other big sedan seller. The different reviews I've read are all pretty up on the Honda Accord, but several seemed to vary a bit on the Camry. Some seemed to green light the Camry, others the Accord. Haven't really read a tie yet, but those are probably out there too. I'm sure many of us will be interested in your collective comparison.

@berri - sorry, but since the Camry does not offer a forced induction engine, I'm not terribly interested in it. I test drove a Mazda 6 with a stick shift a few months back, and I liked it OK, but the lack of a turbo made the engine feel ... well ... lethargic.

I suspect the Camry will feel the same way, to me.

tbirdmarco

@stickguy sounds good on the car shopping in 8 munths!

tbirdmarco

@berry good idea! than we can all compare an bit!

Michaell

I did find one small issue with the Accord, after I started poking around on the Honda website. Not sure why I didn't notice it yesterday, but the Sport trim does not have heated seats. Gotta upgrade to the EX trim level to get those.

Which is a bummer, especially here in Colorado.

berri

Understand Michaell. Just thought you guys were doing these in general for Edmunds. We've owned several Honda's over the years and been happy with all of them.

Michaell

berri said:

Understand Michaell. Just thought you guys were doing these in general for Edmunds. We've owned several Honda's over the years and been happy with all of them.

No, this is for personal evaluation. Even though the lease on my Jetta doesn't come due until Summer 2019, it's never too early to be thinking about (and test driving) the potential replacement vehicle.

stickguy

sport has cloth seats, right? If cloth, not being heated is really not an issue to me.

Michaell

stickguy said:

sport has cloth seats, right? If cloth, not being heated is really not an issue to me.

Yes, cloth seats.

Both my Elantra GT and Jetta have heated cloth seats.

brian125

Excellent review @Michael . Did the 18 sport 1.5T model come standard w/ Bliss, Cross traffic?

brian125

I answered my own question. Below is Edmunds detailed 2018 Accord standard features

Honda has expanded its list of standard features to include a number of driver aids and active safety features. All trim levels will come standard with adaptive cruise control, forward collision warning with automatic braking, lane departure warning, lane keeping assist and a rearview camera. Blind-spot monitoring with rear cross-traffic alert will come standard on all 2.0-liter-equipped models; it's optional on the 1.5-liter and hybrid-powered trims.

Adaptive suspension, automatic headlights, dual-zone climate control, push-button start, a 7-inch color information display in the gauge cluster, and a 7-inch touchscreen infotainment system with a four-speaker stereo are all standard equipment on the base LX. The Sport and EX trims get an eight-speaker system, and the EX-L and Touring trims carry up to 10 speakers.

On top of blind-spot monitoring, 2.0-liter-equipped Accords get LED head- and taillights, proximity entry, remote start, a power moonroof, a 60/40-split folding rear bench, leather-wrapped steering wheel, heated front seats, and an 8-inch touchscreen with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay compatibility. These options can also be added to Accords with the standard engine.

ab348

Michaell said:

Yes, cloth seats.

Both my Elantra GT and Jetta have heated cloth seats.

An ex-coworker's Elantra had heated cloth seats. They caught on fire.

brian125

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

Yes, cloth seats.

Both my Elantra GT and Jetta have heated cloth seats.

An ex-coworker's Elantra had heated cloth seats. They caught on fire.

Hyundai put a warning in there manuals. Please don't fall asleep on our heated seats "You may catch on Fire"

Toyota had a problem with this issue .http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/heated-seat-fire-risk-toyota-issue-stop-sale-order-article-1.1596794

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yeah, why would they?

Because someone looking to buy soon might not want to pay more, or wait longer, and will end up in a competitor's car if they don't take the skinny deal today!

andres3

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

Yes, cloth seats.

Both my Elantra GT and Jetta have heated cloth seats.

An ex-coworker's Elantra had heated cloth seats. They caught on fire.

That's called dynamic range for the temperature control. It gets hotter than other cars' heaters.

andres3

backy said:

FWIW, any car that's about the same size and price as the Accory is competition for them. (Actually, ANY vehicle that someone might buy instead of a new Accory is competition for them.) Thus the Stinger 2.0T is competition (if you don't mind RWD), as are vehicles such as used luxury mid-sized cars. Some people would rather buy a gently used luxury car than a new mid-sized family car. A buddy of mine recently did that, bought a low-miles ES for his wife instead of a Passat that was about the same price.

That only works if the wife is willing to accept pre-owned/lightly used/previously loved merchandise.

andres3

Michaell said:

berri said:

You guys need to go out next weekend and drive the new Camry so you can give your thoughts on the other big sedan seller. The different reviews I've read are all pretty up on the Honda Accord, but several seemed to vary a bit on the Camry. Some seemed to green light the Camry, others the Accord. Haven't really read a tie yet, but those are probably out there too. I'm sure many of us will be interested in your collective comparison.

@berri - sorry, but since the Camry does not offer a forced induction engine, I'm not terribly interested in it. I test drove a Mazda 6 with a stick shift a few months back, and I liked it OK, but the lack of a turbo made the engine feel ... well ... lethargic.

I suspect the Camry will feel the same way, to me.

The Camry with the powerful V6 won't feel like a 4-cylinder Mazda; that I can guarantee.

Michaell

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

berri said:

You guys need to go out next weekend and drive the new Camry so you can give your thoughts on the other big sedan seller. The different reviews I've read are all pretty up on the Honda Accord, but several seemed to vary a bit on the Camry. Some seemed to green light the Camry, others the Accord. Haven't really read a tie yet, but those are probably out there too. I'm sure many of us will be interested in your collective comparison.

@berri - sorry, but since the Camry does not offer a forced induction engine, I'm not terribly interested in it. I test drove a Mazda 6 with a stick shift a few months back, and I liked it OK, but the lack of a turbo made the engine feel ... well ... lethargic.

I suspect the Camry will feel the same way, to me.

The Camry with the powerful V6 won't feel like a 4-cylinder Mazda; that I can guarantee.

Yeah, but I don't want a V6. I like the low down torque of a turbo 4.

brian125

@Michael with your Accord test drive .

Did you find yourself hitting your head when getting in / out of Accords new sloped roof line?

Did you put the A/C / heat unit on high to see if it was loud / noisy.