Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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* #1 in large-car fuel economy
* #1 in interior volume for all sedans in this discussion
* #1 in standard safety features for all sedans in this discussion
Power advantage? Who cares. I sure don't. Nor do the majority of mid-sized car buyers who buy cars with four-cylinder engines vs. V6s. 0-60 in 6.6 seconds and a top speed of over 140 mph is way more than I or most people need.
The Hyundai Sonata or the Kia Optima would be my choices in this class. The way I look at it, a long Warranty is a smarter, gutsier move by a car manufacturer. I don't see evidence, at least in my own experience or of other trustworthy sources, that either Hyundai or Kia are squirming out of their responsibilities regarding their end of the Long-Haul Warranty, either.
I think in light of all these commendable quality reports it's time for many more Americans to squarsh some reason in to their brains and quit over-hyping the Honda's and Toyota's. Nausea-nauseum-nausea-barfo!
What's more is the Honda's and Toyota's look so..ummm...dull. Yukko! :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Perhaps the MSRPs are, but not the actual selling prices. Comparably equipped, the Fusion, Milan, Mazda6 and Sonata sell for thousands less than Camry, Accord, or Altima. I'm not sure where the others fall.
For example, as someone posted, you can get the Mazda6 sport value for about $16K. This is comparable to the Accord SE. I believe the Accord SE goes for about $19K.
Yeah but that is MSRP again. They have been more like 17k the last couple months as they try to clear out the '07s before the '08s get here.
JS is about right, if you check the prices paid forums, the Accord SE is about 19k or so.
Incidentally, the VP (previously known as DX) has pw/pl/abs/cc/tilt/split fold seat, etc. Whats missing is rear drums vs discs, rear speakers, sway bars, and the alloy wheels. A livable package for the asking price. If I went that route I would budget $60 to get a leather wheel and shifter, and another $100 to get 6x9s for the parcel shelf and call it a day.
I think I would still be more likey to go with the Mazda, however, as a sunroof is available before stepping up to the highest trim level. I think that is the only thing we miss on the Subaru, is we should've stepped up a model for the sunroof and heated seats/mirrors.
Sorry to talk about the actual cars (not that I don't drift off topic a lot too) but that's pretty big news I'd say. Will the Accord be able to match or beat that with a regular gas engine? I'm guessing their diesel will but the Fusion Hybrid should beat both.
You guys wanted Ford to answer Honda and Toyota. I think they are really starting to now. The restyle renderings we saw of the Fusion a little while back were for '09 too right?
What's more interesting, IIRC, the Sonata is the shortest car (length-wise) vs. the Accord the Camry; it also has the shortest wheelbase of the three, yet, it comes with the most spacious interior (per volume) and trunk space (per cu. ft.). I think the Accent and the Elantra is also each a class up from the rest of the class, similar to the Sonata here.
Personally, I tend to believe the actual numbers than what you posted and claimed as the "truth".
My 03's warranty (including powertrain) ran out at 36k miles. Do I look worried? :shades:
Ford was behind on engine technology and interior design, but I think both will be fixed with the 09 model. However they are leading in other areas that always seem to get overlooked.
Ford was behind on engine technology and interior design, but I think both will be fixed with the 09 model. However they are leading in other areas that always seem to get overlooked.
Maybe I'm wrong here but our 2007 Fusion has a six-speed automatic transmission (very nice and quite responsive, I might add). I don't believe the Asian mid-size sedan manufacturers offer that yet.
Our Fusion also has AWD. Except for Legacy, I don't believe the Asian companies offer that.
Our Fusion also has puddle lamps, lights built into the rear-view mirrors that illuminate the ground around the door at night. Not a big deal, but a nice touch not offered on the Accords, Camrys, Altimas, et al.
Although certainly not state-of-the art, the Duratec 3.0-liter, 221-horsepower V6 has a proven track record and is powerful enough for most drivers. Just how truly important are 0-to-60 times and how many times a day, week, month or year does one second faster matter?
Which brings me to another point with the Ford Fusion in particular. Why does ford seem to add items over time with their vehicles instead of just releasing them with most of the important items available. Ford knew introducing a new midsize vehicle in 06 a nav system would be needed, std ABS, std side airbags, ect. For 07 ford added AWD, DVD nav, std side airbags, for 08 there adding rear sonar, sync, std abs and stragely no ESC yet. I think these upgrades makes an 06 Fusion seem dated content wise to say the least. Ford needs to start producing vehicles from the start with most of these options available. And i understand ford is addressing shortcomings the fusion has, however when the Accord was new in 03 you could pretty much get every option that the 07 accord has with the exception of VSA on the V6 and other small cosmetic changes. So if i purchased an 03 Accord i wouldnt feel my vehicle is terribly out of date in just 4 short years.
The V6 Camry has a 6spd auto as well. (Hopefully all of the glitches have been worked out of it by now.)
Although certainly not state-of-the art, the Duratec 3.0-liter, 221-horsepower V6 has a proven track record and is powerful enough for most drivers. Just how truly important are 0-to-60 times and how many times a day, week, month or year does one second faster matter?
I really dont feel the manufactures produce these new higher horsepower powertrains for 0-60 purposes, but newer technology allows the engine to produce higher horsepower while also improving mpg. So its essentially a win win situation for the consumer. And yes for the record 221 hp is more than enough for a typical midsize vehicle, but when you can have 270hp and identical MPG or better why not?
Nissan went a different route with the cvt. It isn't limitied to a mere 6 gears :P
I like the new Altima and applaud Nissan for being different and using the CVT. I say its a risky move for Nissan being that the Altima is the company's best seller. CVT still seems a little controversial to me. Especially for a high volume midsize vehicle. CVT is a great technology, but its not for everyone (including myself). Its doesn't have a very long track record, and it seems for some of the manufacturers who offered CVT's before they all seemed to abandon them after only a couple of years. But to Nissans defense i haven't heard much about the CVT equipped Murano's so maybe nissan has cracked the code to build a CVT reliably.
Besides with most modern trannys the shifts are undetectable anyway. :P
I really don't feel the Fusion to be more than a generation behind. Compare the current Fusion to the 2002 Accord EX-V6. It's more than comparable.
Besides with most modern trannys the shifts are undetectable anyway
Its much, much more than that
If it is 1 second faster at full throttle, that does'nt mean the difference wouldn't be even more pronounced at 1/4 throttle, only test drives could tell this.
By the way, what is the importance of AWD in an underpowered Fusion? AWD just weighs it down making it turn into a tank and gas hog.
i've owned deville, olds delta 88, firebird, sonata, bmw 325i, and ford focus as well. i'm not a brand homer like some people in this board and i buy whatever i want. i like my mdx, but i'm going to trade it to something less thirsty sometime next year. also, i'm very interested in the new tibby RWD coming out next year.
if i was in a market for midsized sedan, i would buy either aura, mazda6 or hyundai sonata.
Two out of 4, isn't saying much.
Wouldn't take too much to push it to first (some refinement and horsepower/better MPG/better interior).
These points are not so easily attainable, at least not for them.
It also turns the Fusion from a so-so winter car to a better-handling, better-controlled car in the white stuff. It MAY not make any sense south of the Mason-Dixon line, but there's a reason why Subaru sells well in the Northeast.
Forgive my ignorance, what's a "tibby?"
I think discussing that topic will bring a howl from the hosts to get back to the mid-size sedan thread theme. But as a Fusion owner I would like to see FoMoCo devote more resources into Fusions so it will increase my car's value.
Possibly a Hyundai Tiburon
If everyone is so worried about fuel economy they why don't they improve that without adding power? The rumored PIP Duratec30 for the '09 Fusion is going to offer a modest power increase with an increase in fuel mileage. That's more of a "win win" wouldn't you say?
Yeah, it was just the Accord, Camry, and Sonata IIRC. All weak players in this category.
These points are not so easily attainable, at least not for them.
Wasn't the difference between #1 and #2 more or less based on the interior? The new Accord interior doesn't look to be leaps and bounds above the competition IMO. It's a nice progression but it's not too terribly different from the pics I've seen. Therefore I'm not sure where you're coming from? :confuse:
It is my understanding that all of these newer "fly by wire" applications provide almost identical acceleration throughout, regardless of the "position" of the throttle. I am not current on these matters, but the last time I checked it was more like "flipping a switch", so it would either be on or off. I am certain that some of our more knowledgeable posters will contribute further guidance in this matter.
Van
This is probably my biggest gripe with Ford. Most of this came from the beancounters where the engineers were forced to pick and choose which features to offer because there either wasn't enough engineering resources to do it or there wasn't enough money left in the vehicle budget. That has been fixed as of last year. The other reason is Ford's new strive for quality. Introducing a lot of new technologies at the same time is risky. Keeping the launch of a new vehicle as simple as possible gives you a higher probability of success. Given the Fusion's reliability and quality achievements I'd say it worked. However, it is frustrating and it gives the Ford detractors too much ammunition. Ford used to think it had to compete on price with high volumes. Fields has said publicly that not's profitable and that they need to is focus (no pun intended) on better vehicles with more options.
I was surprised to see the Vista Roof and Navigation available on the Edge day 1. In the past these would have been late additions or MKX exclusive items. The 2009 Flex shows the upgraded Ford interior themes and has all of the expected available options. I expect the same for the 09 Fusion and all new vehicles going forward.
If the competition thinks it's business as usual at Ford they're going to be unpleasantly surprised.
Nope. ETC (electronic throttle control) gives you as much (if not more) throttle positions. It is not binary (on/off). The only difference is that ETC sends the requested throttle input to the computer and the computer decides how that translates to actual throttle changes. This allows the computer to better coordinate transmission shifts (as opposed to a physical cable where the computer can only react to throttle input after it happens) and normally allows for smoother operation.
That might actually be real wood instead of plood - hard to tell. I'm sure if it's offered on the Fusion there will be alternatives just like today with the piano black and carbon fiber.
van
Funky gauges. Funky turn signal lever at 10:00 instead of 9:00 like the rest of the world. Why the wood on the steering wheel? Never understood the desire for that. Ford and Lincoln need to rethink their steering wheel look. Too boxy looking. Shoot, even the Hyundai Elantra has gone to a Honda/Acura look wheel. Sleek and attractive.
Bag the blue Emblem too. But Fords turn me off.
There. I'm done.
That is one of the first "different" things I noticed about our 2007 Fusion. Now, having gotten used it, I find the 10 o'clock position to be much more logical and easier to use. Our other two Ford products have the 9 o'clock position and that arrangement now seems "wrong" to me.
Ford and Lincoln need to rethink their steering wheel look.
Again, I find the Fusion steering wheel to be handy and logical. I like it a lot. However, I agree on the fake wood: It shouldn't be there. Ours is wrapped in leather; is very comfortable. Heck, I even like the Blue Oval. Very distinctive. I think a manufacturer should be proud of the product it makes. Enough so to put their name on it prominently.
But Fords turn me off.
At least you are honest. I actually find some redeeming qualities about all of the mid-size sedan entries but find that the Ford Fusion offers more of the qualities that I like.
Different strokes for different folks. Choice is what it's all about. When it comes to automobiles, none are 100 percent for 100 percent of the people.
I doubt the wood wheel would be used for the Fusion anyway. The question was more about the overall look and design and materials. Looks very good to me.
In case you haven't figured it out by now it's the dash from the 2009 Ford Flex due out next summer. All new Ford interiors should be similar.
Likes:
- Center console
- A/C vent layout
Dislikes:
- Woodtrim inside the gauge
- Woodtrim on the steering wheel
- Truck like steering wheel
- Gauge design
- Shifter (not gated)
- Cup holder has no cover
Similarly - why do you need covers for the cupholders? I use mine daily to hold things other than cups.
I won't spend my whole day trying to correct all the bad info you've spouted, but AWD helps in cornering too. It's much easier to get on the throttle quicker at the apex. And since pretty much any engine in this class can get wheel spin from a standing start, AWD also helps make sure all available power gets to the ground rather than just providing tire smoke. Of course there are the advantages of traction in slippery conditions which are much more than just snow... living in the great northwest, I have lots of experience with rain and AWD is very reassuring to have when there is rain.
The car I have is not AWD, but my last car, a Subie, did. Although it had about the same HP as my Accord, it handled much much better in the areas that I mention above. When I test drove a Mazdaspeed6 which has AWD along with much more power, I took it on a route that I often go when I want to have some fun on curvy roads so I am very familiar with how my non-AWD car handles there. The AWD version of the Mazda6 was much quicker coming out corners even though it is quite a bit heavier. In the end, AWD just offers more grip and if and when you like to have a little fun, traction is always a good thing.
1.The car was comfortable...quiet..rode smoothly with plenty of room in the rear (at least my normally outspoken mother-in-law was quiet). It handled the Laurel Highland portion of the drive on the Pa Turnpike (moderately curvy) fine at speed although this portion WAS smoothed out for more gentle turns by PennDot.
2.Power wise it cruised the whole trip at 75mph including mountainous terrain and rarely shifted out of 5th. It fairly jumped off the line and reved freely through about 5K RPM (remember my MIL was in the back) when entering on ramps to cruise speed. No problems there. Additionally at idle it was imperceptable (so this may be engine refinement?) and quiet on acceleration and at cruise speeds.
3. I refilled the tank twice...refill #1 was around 12.3 gallons with 384 miles showing on the trip odometer = 30.8 mpg (approx)...refill #2 was at our start point on the return with 409 miles showing since the previous refill. I can't remember the gallons used, but calculated to 29.9 mpg at the time. Both refills occurred with approx. 1/4 tank remaining so fuel economy was good with 4 passengers and my driving speed (75 mph most of the time).
4. I particularly liked the steering wheel controls for the radio. The Ac was on almost all of the trip and was COLD cooling even the rear seat area without rear mounted HVAC vents.
5. Final observations...I liked it quite a lot but being a low end rental I would upgrade models if purchased and given the choices on engines in Optima's I would opt for the 4 verses the 2.7 V-6.
I found I needed another rental urgently this week (transmission on our 1995 187K mile Dodge Stratus died..is this a sign of inferior domestic quality?) and was given a 2007 Ford Fusion "S" 4 cylinder with 5.5K miles. A few observation on it as compared to the Optima.
1.high rear deck/trunk obscures rear vision, for me anyhow.
2. VERY noisy engine (induction noise?) AND exhaust noise on acceleration. Engine noisier at idle.. busy mechanical noises(not knocking) but you know it is running unlike the Optima.
3. Sluggish normal acceleration without "getting into it" as compared to the Optima. But if you do get into it it seems OK but still "feels" slower than the Optima... measured numbers aside.
4. Taunt ride and sharper handling.
5. missing nice touches standard on the low level Optima..steering wheel radio controls for example.
Since I have only had the Fusion a day or so I will form other opinions I am sure and I'll let you know. But for now here is one. The Optima is a car where I was sure I was doing about 70 mph only to find I was doing 80 whereas the Fusion is one where I was sure I was doing about 70 mph only to find I was doing 60.
I don't use my cupholders that much thus I prefer it to have a cover so the area looks more elegant.
Doesn't look cheap. Just Fordy. I've owned a few Fords have have been disappointed overall with their offerings. I now buy Hondas because their execution of everything in their cars is so excellent. Ford can't match their interiors let alone their mechanicals.
Good luck Ford. But with the Asians being so strong in small cars I don't see how Ford can hang with them. They should stick to trucks.
Was your trip I70-I71 to SW Ohio/Cincy?? Your driving was mostly interstate?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For me wood or plood makes no difference, I hate 'em both.