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No, that's the essence of rating vehicles like appliances. Cars generate emotions and a Ferrari should not be rated using the same criteria as a Honda Accord. Two completely different products for two completely different purposes.
You obviously don't own any late model (last 3 years) domestic vehicle. This isn't 1990 anymore.
Powertrain = stuff that makes the car go. A lot of the other stuff on any car just plain old wears out.
kirstie_h
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I can see that being useful for something like a sporty mid-sized coupe or the like but not a Ferrari or others like it. The latter is in no way, shape or form built to be a daily driver. The guys in Modena would take your car away if they knew you used it for that. :P
Anyone who averages less than 20K per year gets a longer power train warranty from Hyundai than GM offers.
I am not a real GM fan, but strategically, I do feel that the extended warranty is a good business move for them. If they could just make a convertible that I like (read: not Solstice), we'd be talking.
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http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=121485
Maybe a diesel version?
Here are the pictures:
Source:Jalopnik
I think Hyundai is making a good move in trying to make the car visually more appealing and distinct; they need more than a "me too" ad campaign to succeed given the bad rep baggage they carry along. For the Sonata to do well, I think they need a car that says, "I deserve to be looked at as a solid car and don't need to be compared to others to be chosen." Most of the characteristics of the Sonata are very good; it shouldn't take much for them to start doing really well.
Anybody feeling the chrome handles? Yuck if you ask me...
As for needing to be so good it doesn't need to be compared to other cars... I don't think any brand of mid-sized car is at that point, or will be anytime soon. It's a very competitive market.
* Oh, look how they took the taillamps off the Sonata but didn't take the part that extends onto the trunk lid.
* The roofline is a dead ringer for the Optima (and many other cars too, but in this class, mostly the Optima).
* The side character line looks Acura-esque--I wonder if that's because in some markets, the car will be sold as an Acura?
* The door handles, especially the chrome ones, look too big for the car.
* The grille is really, really ugly. Hideous, IMO. I'm not sure why Honda would put a grille like that on an otherwise sleek-looking car. It looks very un-Hondalike, except maybe the Ridgeline. It reminds me of something Suzuki might do, or Subaru before they came to their senses.
Regards:
OldCEM
Some of you are making it sound like domestic vehicles have done a complete 180... however, my 2004 was a different story, requiring a shop visit every few months of ownership, starting from day three:
-Brand new, there was a whining noise from rear end at 15-20 mph (changed pitch as speed increased) in either 1st or 2nd gear; selling dealer stated problem could not be duplicated. The noise didn't worsen, although TSB’s were issued for improper fluid in rear diffs, which were known to fail.
-Rear passenger door wouldn’t open from inside at time of purchase; repaired under warranty.
-When cruising at low RPM’s, a sudden lift of the throttle (such as to switch to the brake in slowing traffic) would occasionally cause an extremely harsh bang and jolt from the transmission (the first time this happened I thought I had run something over). This problem faded somewhat after the manufacturer "fix" (see below) and seemed to improve with time and mileage, however it was still present after the transmission flush at around 40k miles.
-Hesitation shifting from park to drive, or drive to reverse (as in 3-pt turn), requiring use of throttle and followed by a very harsh engagement; a transmission solenoid was replaced and a transmission fluid additive was added to fix (all under warranty).
-Squeaky front suspension; very noticeable when driving over speed bumps; front suspension bushings replaced under warranty.
-Brake rotors rusted heavily around 15,000 miles, causing vibration when braking from high speeds; fixed under warranty (new pads, rotors turned); problem resurfaced and became more pronounced less than 4,000 miles later.
-Around 15,000 miles, humming noise from rear at 60-70 mph regardless of gear; only present when throttle open.
-“Hooting” noise from A/C around 2,000 RPMs; evidently common according to dealer.
-Rear ABS sensor failed -just- out of warranty, requiring a $60 part plus labor to install.
-Brakes were shot (again...) at 42k miles. Evidently the rotors would go first, then eat the pads...
-Lever to fold second row passenger seat had stopped actuating the internal release by trade-in (seat would not fold).
Funny thing was, on the Edmunds "problems and solutions" board, there were many people having these same problems, but we were all irritated mainly because our dealers acted like nothing was wrong...
What good is a warranty if the manufacturer constantly denies there is a problem and won't honor it?
Hmmm...I thought they had the best V6, too...so why is that not what people opt for?
Ford doesn't have a viable or decent 4 cylinder, so everyone gets the "somewhat decent" V6.
That is a pretty extreme opinion. Are there any facts behind it? I'd like to know what specifically is unviable and indecent about the Ford/Mazda I4? Mine seems pretty viable and decent to me.
I think reality is that there is less difference between the I4s than there is between the V6s.
Agree, but I would pretty much say that about any and all chrome on any car
I do think the new Accord is a big improvement appearance-wise, though.
I too think it looks best in the front 3/4 view. Lose the chrome door handles on the gray one and it's not bad (the gray makes the other chrome less noticable).
Yes, the dealer network is still a problem and the manufacturers unfortunately don't have much control over that. Not directly at least.
CR may think so, the buying public doesn't think so and neither do I. The Fusion has a long way to go before it becomes equal or better to a Camry or Accord. Not that it's a bad car, it's just that the Camry and Accord are that much better. The 2008 Accord will raise the bar even more, you can bet on it.
And the 2009 Fusion will also raise the bar with an upgraded interior (see the Ford Flex for an idea of the new interior design), hybrid model, twin turbo direct injection 2.5L I4 and exterior styling that looks better than the 08 Accord (to me).
This one I believe.
twin turbo direct injection 2.5L I4
Source please. What's Ford trying to do? Make a Fordspeed Fusion? :P
exterior styling that looks better than the 08 Accord (to me).
Pointless statement. First of all, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Second, if styling is really that important of a factor then IMO, Sonata, Aura and Fusion should be outselling the Camry/Accord by now.
Also, I am with those satisfied Camcord owners. I just don't see the point of messing with successful and proven purchasing decisions.
But some people want something different and you have to understand that. If you ask me the Sonata is the one, that if done better, threatens to outsell the CamCord because it is a bit more vanilla than a Fusion, Altima, Mazda6, etc. Those latter cars are more niche fillers if nothing else because they are edgier and have different personalities. They stand out in one or two categories whereas the CamCords don't really stand out in any specific categories and do everything rather well. The Ford F-150 and Explorer were always noted as being like that in MT which supposedly explained their appeal to the masses. Makes sense to me.
I'm trying to find some pics of the new wheels and grille but am not having any luck so far.
As to the Twin Force I4 2.5L direct injection this has been hinted at by Derrick Kuzak and confirmed by an inside source. Power output is rumored to be 260 hp but with I4 fuel economy. A DSG type transmission called Powershift is also in the works but not confirmed for the Fusion.
Oh please - most people don't keep cars more than 5 or 6 years at the most and I bet you can count the number of 300K camcords on two hands. 150K is a more reasonable target and there is no reason to believe any of the current mid-size sedans won't go 150K without major problems. It's not 1990 anymore.
But Sonata outsell CamCord? Not anytime soon. Hyundai currently has neither the manufacturing capacity or dealer network to come anywhere close to Accord or Camry in sales volume. Their current production in Alabama is limited to 300k a year right now--and that must be shared with the Santa Fe, for which sales are surging. So if Hyundai increases sales of the Sonata from the current 12k or so to about 15k a month, that will max out capacity in Alabama if they do 10k Santa Fes a month. Then they have to find excess capacity overseas or expand the Alabama plant.
Sales numbers would indicate that this is a true statement. Anyone have any theories as to why this is the case? Did the Ford Fusion steal its sales from the Sonata? Did some other model? Why would a car with such good reviews not sell as well as expected? It seems to be a mystery.
Here is one of the reasons for the fall:
Hyundai started a program to get "as many butts into the Sonata as possible". They sent a great number of units into fleet in 2006 in hopes for improved brand recognition.
The sales dip is reported by way of year-over-year (YOY) (e.g. June 2007 vs. June 2006). Of course, comparing the normal amount sold in 2007, and the large amount of units reported last year (2006), including the ones sent via the fleet program, would be a skewed comparison. I don't think it'd be surprising to see sales dip throughout the rest of this year using the YOY comparison.
The previous generation barely made 10K/month during its cycle, while the current Sonata has made that number stand up.
The other issue, as stated by backy, capacity restraint at the Alab. plant. Also, the demand for I4 were higher than Hyundai officials estimated.
Louiswei, those are the best photos I have seen of the 2008 and my initial reaction is just the opposite of yours: I like the looks of the 2007s better. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Not sure about the rear though, too much emphasis on the 5-series. Generally speaking it looks good but for some reason it doesn't strike me as a Honda.
What is a "5-series?" Forgive my ignorance. I did have a similar reaction: That it doesn't remind me of a Honda much. But I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. Styling-wise, most of the Asian cars have a plain-Jane, lookalikeness to them, not very distinctive. Maybe the designs are too subtle for me to appreciate.
The Accords, Camrys, Sonatas, Kias, Subarus et al all look generic to me, even the Auras. That's one of the reasons why my wife and I chose a 2007 Fusion: Distinctive styling; it doesn't get mistaken for anything else. We consider that to be a plus but not everyone would, of course.
A minor point, to be sure, but that was my first reaction, too.
Source please. What's Ford trying to do? Make a Fordspeed Fusion?
Here is a small byte on it. More detailed info is available on some subscription site called autonews.com apparently but I don't have access to it.
"if done better" ? It's hard to resist.....but...duh!
The Sonata over the Altima? I think Altima's HUGE sales lead over the Sonata is in no jeopardy.
You make it sound like there are NO Sonatas sitting on dealers' lots beacause every one they make is being snatched up quickly, and they can't make enough of them.
Not.
The Sonata over the Altima? I think Altima's HUGE sales lead over the Sonata is in no jeopardy.
You're missing my point. I'm saying the Fusion, Altima, Mazda6, and others like them would never outsell the Camry or Accord because they are not nearly as mainstream and offer a more sporting experience overall. The Sonata seems to be the more mainstream car but it needs to be better to pose a threat. No matter how much better you make the others they just won't appeal to everyone.
So now the claims are for 300K trouble free miles...give me a break, that is not happening with any brand of car on any kind of regular basis.
Coming off of that experience, I had trouble seriously considering a less expensive Ford sedan, or any Ford for that matter. The biggest slap in the face was being able to go online and look up the TSBs that specifically detailed my problems, but not being able to get any of the dealers to help me out. Even more, the "fixes" suggested by Ford were just band-aids. You read the description of my problems. Fluid additives? C'mon, Ford.
This was 2004. I expected my new cars transmission to shift smoothly, my brake rotors to last more than 15,000 miles, and my engine to crank on the first try, every time. Ford didn't deliver that for me. It would be hard to give them another shot.