Midsize Sedans 2.0

jd10013

I would say the camry is the sales leader, and thats all. I wouln't call it best in class, best in segment, best car or anything else. Sales numbers are subjective. They're affected a lot by perception, advertising, marketing, and a host of other factors.

And I agree with what the other poster said about ford. I would never again in my life buy a ford car. Just too many bad experiences in the past. And that's not unusual, most people who have a bad experience with a car won't buy from them again. But, I think in the case of ford, they let quality control durring the 90's slip to a level where they alienated a lot of past customers. I don't think they did it on purpose, they just figured the future was in SUV's and Trucks. They paid a lot less attention to, and spent a lot less money on their passenger cars.
And it's not my intention to bash Ford, just reality. They'll recove eventualy, and if their cars don't, they sell enough trucks that they will always be a big (even if not the biggest) player in the automotive market.

thegraduate

All are ok, and as you'll see, the damage is purely cosmetic. I know this isn't exactly on topic (although it IS a car listed for this page! :P ) but I appreciate y'all listening to me; we're a midsize sedan family, ya know!?

Long story short - Heavy traffic. Two-lane interstate each direction, 70 MPH. I'm in the left lane keeping up with everyone, doing about 70 (right lane was slooooow). Crazy-guy tries to pass me on inside shoulder unsuccessfully (he ran out of grass and nearly hit a guardrail). He is able to pass on the right (remember, I'm keeping up with what is in front of me within about 4 carlengths the whole time). He swerves over, and clips me. The policeman said it was obvious he wasn't telling the truth, and I was, based on the damage pattern and my story. He got out of his car playing it off saying "it was just a fender bender, no big deal." I may file a complaint at the courthouse, the policeman told me it was at my discretion to do so.

My parking light is missing, and my passenger side low-beam doesn't work, but both highbeams work, as well as the blinkers. Nothing too much seems to have happened under the hood. I drove it up to 70 MPH last night after it happened with no problem. When I had to turn off my high beams, I had to slow way down though, with only one light!

Here's one pic, the rest can be found on my carspace page.


See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

urnews

And that's not unusual, most people who have a bad experience with a car won't buy from them again. But, I think in the case of ford, they let quality control durring the 90's slip to a level where they alienated a lot of past customers. I don't think they did it on purpose, they just figured the future was in SUV's and Trucks. They paid a lot less attention to, and spent a lot less money on their passenger cars.

I think that's an accurate assessment, JD. People who have had a bad experience with a make or model tend to avoid buying another apple out of that barrel. Conversely, those who have pleasant experiences usually consider the same manufacturer when it comes time for a new vehicle.

This is why quality is so important for all manufacturers and I believe the auto industry, as a whole, has make tremendous progress in the last 20 years and continues that trend today.

I've owned a great many cars and trucks, both new and used, since getting my first car, a 1952 Studebaker in 1958 and none of them were really "bad."

Our 2007 SEL AWD Fusion is, however, in a league of its own (for the first six months). The fit and finish is perfect and there have been zero squeaks, rattles or things that go bump in the night. The car is flawless as far as we can tell. Knock on wood. I hope the trend continues, of course.

I simply can't imagine a Camry or Accord being any "better," yet I am 100 percent sure that legions of Toyota and Honda owners are just as satisfied with their purchases, too.

elroy5

The hubcap staying on is a good sign. Shouldn't be any suspension damage. Do you know of a good shop in your area?

thegraduate

Well, he didn't hit me below the fender, so it drives perfect. I'm heading to the dealer in a few to talk to a long-time family friend about it (he is sales manager, but is the type that wouldn't even let us DRIVE a Passport back in the day because it wasn't a good car), and where I should get the estimate. This crazy-guy's insurance should cover it, since it was obviously his fault.

elroy5

What insurance company does he have? Not Safeway, I hope. It could be easier going through your own insurance company, even if the other guy is at fault.

lightfootfl

That's one of those, looks (semi-OK)like not too bad, but until a good shop checks it out you can't tell. Glad it wasn't worse, and all runs out good. This kind is more frustrating, especially as you have maintained it. Unfortunately today's shops will look and say something like "oh,front qtr, plus."...etc I hope you have a good shop relationship somewhere. Be aware how it will affect the insurance rates too. Also, considering all things, present and future, be sure to document everything,and keep the reports and pics,also consider seeing a doc, just in case, even if you don't file for anything immediately, or ever. It could possibly "bite you much later". Again, happy it wasn't worse, and you are OK. :sick:

van

jd10013

I simply can't imagine a Camry or Accord being any "better,"

They aren't. at least not in any significant way. To the enthueasist, there's differences. But, none that the average driver will notice. The one thing thats hard to factor into reliability statistics is maintance/care of the vehicle. If you do all the required maintanence when your supposed to, and don't try doing it on the cheap, any car will last 10yr/200k miles. IMO, fords biggest problem right now is a lack of quality management from the top down. They're in need of a bigggg shake-up. Not just changing CEO's Kind of the same thing that almost brought Nissan down.

urnews

IMO, fords biggest problem right now is a lack of quality management from the top down. They're in need of a bigggg shake-up.

I think it's really funny that Alan Mulally, Ford's new CEO, owned a Lexus when he was hired. I wonder what he drives around in now that he is Ford's top dog?

thegraduate

Having looked under the hood, I did a quick check and other than the headlight being loose, I don't see much else. The car is still aligned perfetly, with no vibrations.

I'm gonna bypass the doc, since the it didn't really move me in the car. I didn't skid a tire or even have a chance to swerve. He just clipped me, and we pulled over. I already have a knee problem from locking my leg on the brake on impact in my last crash (in this same car). This one wasn't violent at all, and had I not heard it and seen it, I'm not sure I would've even felt the "bump." I'll get more than one estimate, for sure. At this point, I'm VERY lucky to have a 2006 Accord waiting on me in the driveway, and will drive it until the other car is fixed.

I actually did not get the other guy's insurance number/company, but the policeman assured me it would be in the report I could pick up Tuesday. I did my best to stay away from the other driver, he was a total loon. In fact, I even kept my car in D4 until I was sure he wasn't getting out to approach me. I didn't want him pulling a weapon.

akirby

Last I heard it was a Five Hundred, but I think he said he's making it a point to drive every vehicle Ford makes.

urnews

That's a very good idea, in my book. Thanks for sharing Allen. It's good that he gets to know Ford's products firsthand. Having owned and driven a Lexus he should have a pretty good idea of where Ford, Lincoln, Mercury needs to be.

akirby

He also spent a day selling cars in a dealership and spent a day with Consumer Reports and his engineers finding out what they could improve.

He's definitely doing all the right things so far.

thegraduate

He's definitely doing all the right things so far.

Now, if the bean counters will allow for the improvements!

urnews

I suspect the road to recovery and viability will be a long one. I wish him and FoMoCo all the best.

jd10013

I suspect the road to recovery and viability will be a long one. I wish him and FoMoCo all the best.

not necessarily. Nissan was in far worse shape in '99. the company was expected (by most experts) to file for bankruptcy protection within a year. With the proper management and recovery plan, they did a complete 180 in about 3 years. I don't see ford being in any worse shape. they have everything they need to turn things around. They just need to have the right people who can do it.

kdshapiro

"What's first on your list? What do you drive now?"

First on my list is the Honda. But when I went around looking for cars I was almost ready to buy the Honda Accord but I bought an XT instead. I needed something with more room that I could haul stuff and decided I wanted AWD. In addition, while it is not a "family" sedan, it is a family car and is as quick as all get go.

I have had two Ford products and one of them better than the other. One had tranny problems right after the warranty expired.

By the way not recommending a manufacturer is not bashing. For me there is no better choice in this segment than the Accord. The Camry comes in second, despite some prior issues. No car has ever been immune to issues, but the overall picture of the Camry is a good one indeed.

goodegg

I bought an XT instead.

Is that the Outback or the Forester?

I heard the Outback's lot more to insure than an Accord. Comments?

thegraduate

Sure. Here's my first thought on that...

Surprised. A safety gold pick (IIRC), AWD, less likely to be stolen. Seems like it should be cheaper.

Question, is the Subaru we are talking about a turbo? Turbos raise rates. Another question. Is the Accord a V6 or I4?

prosource1

'I bought an XT instead. I needed something with more room that I could haul stuff and decided I wanted AWD.'

We looked at a Suburu but was disappointed with:

-very poor interior room...especially rear seat leg room

-build quality issues: door shutting sounds like a tin can, engine sounds like a bad sounding diesel.

kdshapiro

There are no build quality issues. The door sound is the door sound and the rear can hold 5 adults without any problems. Subaru generally builds highly rated, reliable cars. It might not be as roomy as others with all of the conceivable options, but it's not cramped either and some of the options are in the engineering. There are trade-offs in the Forester vs the EX for example, but I took the upside of the trade-offs with the downside of the trade-offs.

mcoctopus

I'm getting a leftover '06 mazda6 s for 16,500. Do you think I'm paying too much? My friends and coworkers gave a split decision. My dad is furious that I'm buying a new car. My mom's happy that it's a new car.

But none of them have driven the car. I've driven it and it's fabulous. And a gorgeous looking car.

I'm looking for an honest, anonymous opinion on the dealers price offer. I spent 3 hrs with him and he wouldnt take anything less that 16,500. What you think?

thegraduate

Seems like it would depend on what options the car has, and how many miles are on it.

mcoctopus

Its not a demo car - just 6 miles on it. Only options are 6spd auto, cd changer (not a Bose), and chromatic rearview mirror. Everything else is standard.

Standard front grille, 17in alloys, abs, traction control, airbags, floormats, remote locking, engine immobiliser etc etc.

What you think?

mcoctopus

Other thing is that he knows that he's not going to get any more business from me. The dealer is 100 miles away and I'm not going there for maintenance. He said that himself.

urnews

You didn't mention the car's MSRP. Do you plan on keeping it for four or five years? Bear in mind that the 2008s will be out in the fall. So, even if the car is brand new to you it will still officially be two years old as soon as the '08s appear.

On the surface, it seems like a good deal. The Mazda6 is a fine automobile, from what I have read. You seem to be very enamored with the car.

Is there another Mazda dealer closer than 100 miles where you can have the car serviced? Having a good dealer close at hand is part of the equation, too.

lilengineerboy

There are no build quality issues. The door sound is the door sound and the rear can hold 5 adults without any problems. Subaru generally builds highly rated, reliable cars. It might not be as roomy as others with all of the conceivable options, but it's not cramped either and some of the options are in the engineering. There are trade-offs in the Forester vs the EX for example, but I took the upside of the trade-offs with the downside of the trade-offs.

I second the Subaru experience. It is also in a body style not offered by the other manufacturers (at least until this year) - a midsize wagon. It is also available with a manual transmission and AWD. In 2 years - I have been totally stoked with this purchase, my only remorse being that it is the base model wagon and in hindsight, the model up with more doodads would've been desirable, but the model we got undercut the cost of an Accord, so I definitely can't complain about the diesel.

Toyota bought GMs chunk of Subaru (and a little more, I believe) mainly to get access to manufacturing facilities in Indiana, but I would expect to see the typical Toyota pairing down of models to the one-size-fits-most level.

mcoctopus

At 16,500, it's 9000 off the sticker price.

There are quite a few Mazda dealers close by but they dont have new 2006 version. They have used auctioned-of-rental cars but not for a price I'm willing to pay. I cannot bring myself to pay 15,000+ for an ex-rental with 20,000 mileage when I can buy the new car for 16,500.

I'm not going to keep this car for more than 3 yrs. It has 4yr 50,000 mile warranty, so I plan to sell it at 40,000 miles. I think the next owner would be willing to pay extra bucks for the warranty.

akirby

Now, if the bean counters will allow for the improvements!

He's fixing that, too. He immediately took control of the capital budget away from the Board of Directors and he now has sole discretion of how to spend capital. That alone should help a lot.

akirby

By the way not recommending a manufacturer is not bashing.

It is when it's based on outdated or incorrect information.